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Apple Pay Apple Pay in Germany

sir-hd said:
... as I have read of users having problems using boon (Twitter/Forums). Who knows how long it will continue to work?.....
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Which problems are you talking about? The most problems I find are People getting Boon through France (which I Don't understand anyhow) and then don't book plus service, which is know to be mandatory for the France Boon Card.
Don't find too much other stuff?
I do pay a lot with boon Irland and never had a problem.
 
Mr-Fly said:
Which problems are you talking about? The most problems I find are People getting Boon through France (which I Don't understand anyhow) and then don't book plus service, which is know to be mandatory for the France Boon Card.
Don't find too much other stuff?
I do pay a lot with boon Irland and never had a problem.
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I personally have a French boon. account. It doesn't really matter either way as the limits with basic (also in Ireland) are far too low anyway. Also there articles indicating you HAVE to download the boon. app from the countries App Store you want later in boon. But that's simply not true. I installed mine via my UK Apple ID and set it up with the region set to France but language left on English (UK). So as long as you have access to an Apple ID in a country that has the boon app, install it from there and choose your region before setting up your account. Also: Terminals are usually in German, sometimes I have messages in English and my monthly statement is also in English, despite using boon. France.

Several people are reporting blocked Apple IDs (check Apfel.cash) when setting up a foreign account. I can't check if this is true or not. Also the question is how long Apple will permit users setting up foreign boon. accounts. Legally it isn't really problem as you can - as a European citizen - open an account in any EU country you want. Boon. gets around this by offering you a French / Irish / whatever MasterCard. But look at what happened to bunq...
 
sir-hd said:
I personally have a French boon. account. It doesn't really matter either way as the limits with basic (also in Ireland) are far too low anyway. Also there articles indicating you HAVE to download the boon. app from the countries App Store you want later in boon. But that's simply not true. I installed mine via my UK Apple ID and set it up with the region set to France but language left on English (UK). So as long as you have access to an Apple ID in a country that has the boon app, install it from there and choose your region before setting up your account. Also: Terminals are usually in German, sometimes I have messages in English and my monthly statement is also in English, despite using boon. France.

Several people are reporting blocked Apple IDs (check Apfel.cash) when setting up a foreign account. I can't check if this is true or not. Also the question is how long Apple will permit users setting up foreign boon. accounts. Legally it isn't really problem as you can - as a European citizen - open an account in any EU country you want. Boon. gets around this by offering you a French / Irish / whatever MasterCard. But look at what happened to bunq...
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What happened to Bunq was that Dutch (or non Spanish/Italian) accounts were blocked again. It's a different situation to Boon. as those are cards from Apple Pay countries. Will be a lot harder for Apple to block Boon. as those are valid cards from countries with Apple Pay. My 2 cents.
 
MLVC said:
Will be a lot harder for Apple to block Boon. as those are valid cards from countries with Apple Pay.
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Bunq COULD do the same, but they aren't. They could theoretically still issue you with an Italian or Spanish (virtual?) card. So could N26, but they also deny access to their customers and have locked accounts with "manipulated" addresses. There is no difference between what bunq did and what boon. is doing.

Regarding boon: Apple could demand that German users get a virtual German MasterCard and thus - no Apple Pay. It's a back door that's larger than bunq's was, but still: Who knows what Apple is up to next.
 
sir-hd said:
...
Regarding boon: Apple could demand that German users get a virtual German MasterCard and thus - no Apple Pay. It's a back door that's larger than bunq's was, but still: Who knows what Apple is up to next.
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I don't think that Apple can request this as it would be against European law. Nobody can control if somebody who is German has a second living destination in Ireland and as traveling and economics are free in the EU you can get a bank account in other EU countries.
 
Mr-Fly said:
I don't think that Apple can request this as it would be against European law. Nobody can control if somebody who is German has a second living destination in Ireland and as traveling and economics are free in the EU you can get a bank account in other EU countries.
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Same with bunq. They could issue you an Italian / Spanish Maestro card or MasterCard. Still, doesn't work any more, does it? ;) EU law states that you get (at least one basic) account / credit card in any single EU member state. But EU law doesn't state (and wouldn't be able to) that you have a right to add that card to a digital wallet. That lies with the tech companies and so Apple can decide if you can add your bunq/boon card to Apple Pay or not. Those are two different things I'm afraid.

There are still top secret contracts between the banks and Apple that we know absolutely nothing about. I'm sure part of it is restricting EU banks with multiple branches to only provide Apple Pay to users in that specific country. N26 has showed in the past that it will block your account if they detect you getting around those restrictions. Bunq publicly advertised the work-around and got into trouble. Boon does the same but doesn't advertise it. Maybe that is because it's a virtual operator only or because their contract with Apple was agreed upon long before these use-cases with foreign users became apparent.

A while back rumours spread that Apple actively allowed boon to issue foreign users access to Apple Pay (so to satisfy the "nerds"). Who knows if that is true. Another point is a bargaining chip: Apple sometimes gives banks exclusive access to Apple Pay for a certain period of time. Let's take the bunq example: If they had allowed bunq to carry on giving Dutch and German users access, Apple would not have been able to / will not be able to offer ING (NL) or Sparkasse (DE) (...) any convincing exclusivity agreement for a launch. That's why Apple is strong on this topic to keep control over their platform and not loose control and let the banks dictate the rules.
 
Mr-Fly said:
I don't think that Apple can request this as it would be against European law. Nobody can control if somebody who is German has a second living destination in Ireland and as traveling and economics are free in the EU you can get a bank account in other EU countries.
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Traveling and economics might be free within in the eu but after all these are still all private businesses and they can do whatever they want in terms of their service agreements. They do not need to give you a French MasterCard. They don’t even need to allow you to open a account. Freedom does not mean that you have a right to get whatever you want.
 
To compare these two things is quite difficult. Bunq is a Full Bank Account like n26, Boon just gives you a prepaid credit card. Slightly different in the approach. And as you know, also n26 blocks German customers in foreign countries. I think the bank laws are slightly different for full accounts then they are for prepaid credit cards?
 
Mr-Fly said:
To compare these two things is quite difficult. Bunq is a Full Bank Account like n26, Boon just gives you a prepaid credit card. Slightly different in the approach. And as you know, also n26 blocks German customers in foreign countries. I think the bank laws are slightly different for full accounts then they are for prepaid credit cards?
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Banks laws don't (directly) apply to digital finance services. Apple is the king of Apple Pay and they decide a) who get's access, b) how access is granted and that's why they make their own contracts on agreed terms. Don't be so sure that Apple Pay will never come to Germany or that boon. registered in Ireland/France/etc. will always work. Also, boon. is a product of Wirecard (a bank registered in Germany)!

EDIT: Otherwise all banks in the EU would allow Apple Pay to foreign users. N26 doesn't and bunq did and got blocked by Apple. Simple as that.
 
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sir-hd said:
Same with bunq. They could issue you an Italian / Spanish Maestro card or MasterCard. Still, doesn't work any more, does it? ;)
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You can still get a spanish / italien Master/MaestroCard in Germany... You just have to know how ;) and until now bunq hasn't closed any accounts afaik
 
#50% offtopic, but read about some that deleted and wanted to reinstall the boon app before and that it caused problems:

Download the Apple Configurator 2 from the Mac App Store, connect your iDevice and you can then remotely log in to your other Apple ID (in another App Store) to install apps without having to log out and back in again on your phone. Added benefit: All your downloaded tracks in Apple Music stay intact!

Worked today with my iPhone and iPad perfectly!
 
I got my bunq Mastercard and Maestro today and had no problems getting them to work with Apple Pay (and i live in Germany) so..... if you WANT it you can have it. Doesn't matter if Boon. or a regular bank like Bunq. There are always ways.....
 
Ney said:
I got my bunq Mastercard and Maestro today and had no problems getting them to work with Apple Pay (and i live in Germany) so..... if you WANT it you can have it. Doesn't matter if Boon. or a regular bank like Bunq. There are always ways.....
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So you did the „Bunq Love“ workaround using Italy or Spain country code?
 
Ney said:
yes - same old "n26" trick.
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It's only a matter of time until this path get's locked down as well.

As I stated above: Apple obviously doesn't want this to work.

Btw today I encountered a fast food chain (Subways) that didn't accept any of my Apple Pay cards despite the terminal supporting NFC. The only card that worked was my Sparkassen Girocard (contactless). It was one of those VR Pay terminals, so obviously no MasterCard/Visa Credit- or Debit card support :/ Very disappointing. It would be interesting to know if the bunq Maestro card for Apple Pay would have worked :/
 
sir-hd said:
It would be interesting to know if the bunq Maestro card for Apple Pay would have worked :/
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About two weeks ago I went to a edeka it’s a huge store and only two years old they seem to have the same payment system and I wasn’t able to pay with Apple Pay bunq maestro as well. The maestro. Contactless worked but Apple Pay didn’t.
 
Karma_isA_8itch said:
About two weeks ago I went to a edeka it’s a huge store and only two years old they seem to have the same payment system and I wasn’t able to pay with Apple Pay bunq maestro as well. The maestro. Contactless worked but Apple Pay didn’t.
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thats kinda strange o.o... normaly it should have worked :eek:
 
The reason for the lack of Apple Pay in Germany are the banks. The German banking system and most of their customers are very old fashioned. The banks are terrified that they might miss out on a couple of cents. And most Germans still prefer cash over card payments, that is a fact. There is no incentive for the banks to get Apple Pay started.
 
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I don't buy that sorry. Maybe if it weren't for N26 and wirecard which operate in other AP supported countries. EU legislation can also not be a reason because, well, quite a few EU countries are already supported.

And that we prefer cash is something I normally only hear from journalists and people with a professional investment in Sparkasse or Volksbank. What I see out there in the streets is that cards are used whereever they are a possible method to pay. Recently I discovered a baker chain which accepts cards and NFC payments (Horsthemke) and dudes in front of me, professional handymen by their looks, were all paying with Sparkasse (sic!) cards. So not even the customers of these old fashioned banks are that backwards. I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but still...
 
We all know that Girocard digital is incoming, yet some material for you all to take a look at:
https://die-dk.de/media/files/06_dkinfo2017_girocard_mobile_christian_schollmeyer.pdf from last years main event of the Deutsche Kreditwirtschaft.

Slide no. 13 is interesting. Girocard digital will definitely rely on HCE, which means it would be easily compatible with Apple Pay if the Sparkasse decide on rolling this out. This information keeps getting confirmed, so I still think Apple is waiting to get the Girocard implementation into Apple Pay right from the beginning and possibly launch exclusively with Girocard partners or even the Sparkasse.

The ratio of Sparkasse vs. other customers (21m Girocards with contactless at the end of 2017 vs. 12m all other German banks with contactless Girocards) shows again: Apple can't really get around them if they want to leave a big footprint on Germany. I still think that's what they want and that's why we're still waiting. Take the 45% of payments in Germany processed by card. Girocard / Lastschrift combined make up the most percentage. Credit cards are only used in 6% of card payments, so obviously business sense tells you: We need to tap into that larger market.

And read whatever you want into this recent tweet: https://twitter.com/sparkasse/status/982632966676471810 ;)
 
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