It's not "pathetic", it's just a different class of cards. High-end cards (like the ones you mentioned) always require additional power, low-end (non 3D) or middle-rate cards generally don't, which is great.
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Apple Radeon 5770/5870 in pre-2010 Mac Pro's: What We Know So Far
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It's not "pathetic", it's just a different class of cards. High-end cards (like the ones you mentioned) always require additional power, low-end (non 3D) or middle-rate cards generally don't, which is great.
I take it nobody else on a 1,1 Mac Pro has attempted to get audio output working through the MDPs? I can pass Dolby TrueHD 7.1 from Windows via PowerDVD Ultra in BDR mode, but can't even get so much as a mono channel (or any device at all) to show up in OS X.
Kind of a bummer. I'd like a one-shot connection to my AVR.
Kind of a bummer. I'd like a one-shot connection to my AVR.
5770 v 5870 on 1,1 Mac Pro
Following on from my previous post yesterday:
I've now completed some more controlled testing and with the exception of GTA and Splinter Cell Conviction the gains of the 5870 over the 5770 are more modest than I first thought I'm afraid. In Windows With GTA it really does improve the performance by a factor close to 2 - with everything set to high running down a particular street I get about 22 fps with the 5770 but about 40 with the 5870. Similarly with Splinter Cell the fps goes from 20 to about 38. With all the other games the performance gains are closer to 10 to 20 percent. It's interesting though because these are the only two games that I feel push the graphics (all the other games work perfectly on both cards with modest gains in fps given by the 5870).
Also, the 5870 gives little performance increase with X Plane in OSx (in line with Barefeats findings).
I'm now not so sure whether to keep the 5870 or not - it does at least make GTA playable!
Following on from my previous post yesterday:
I've now completed some more controlled testing and with the exception of GTA and Splinter Cell Conviction the gains of the 5870 over the 5770 are more modest than I first thought I'm afraid. In Windows With GTA it really does improve the performance by a factor close to 2 - with everything set to high running down a particular street I get about 22 fps with the 5770 but about 40 with the 5870. Similarly with Splinter Cell the fps goes from 20 to about 38. With all the other games the performance gains are closer to 10 to 20 percent. It's interesting though because these are the only two games that I feel push the graphics (all the other games work perfectly on both cards with modest gains in fps given by the 5870).
Also, the 5870 gives little performance increase with X Plane in OSx (in line with Barefeats findings).
I'm now not so sure whether to keep the 5870 or not - it does at least make GTA playable!
Most games are CPU bound, not GPU bound, so the 5870, while it'll give some improvement, will not be as much a boost as a new CPU would. In OS X, there's also the issue of very unpolished drivers, and the fact that while Windows gets DirectX 11 support, OS X's implementation of OpenGL is four years behind the times, as it only supports 2.x spec with a couple games (World of Warcraft most notably) supporting minimal 3.1 extensions via its GLL backend.
Until OS X catches up on OpenGL to make itself on par with DX11, we're not going to see the gains we should be seeing with this powerful a card.
Interestingly, I hear quite often that one of the most CPU bound games is GTA but this was the game that benefited the most from the new card (by a long way)!
Quite curious to know how it performs in relatively newer games. You've tested two. Do you have access to any others? StarCraft II? Some new FPSes maybe? How about some 3DMark tests? If the 5870 offers decent gains in newer titles, I think the card may still be worth holding on to.
Still deciding if I should upgrade my 1,1's 5770 to the 5870.
Quite curious to know how it performs in relatively newer games. You've tested two. Do you have access to any others? StarCraft II? Some new FPSes maybe? How about some 3DMark tests? If the 5870 offers decent gains in newer titles, I think the card may still be worth holding on to.
Still deciding if I should upgrade my 1,1's 5770 to the 5870.
I'm afraid I haven't got access to any other games at the moment. I think I'm going to keep the 5870 to save myself stress of wondering how it performs on Portal II and Duke Nukem when they come out. It would be purgatory for me thinking there might be something I can get to improve the performance (bar buying a new computer). However, on reflection, with the exception of GTA (which I don't understand why I get the performance gain) it doesn't really give me much more than the 5770 and I would honestly save your money for your next computer with the comfort of knowing you are squeezing most of the juice out of your 1,1 at a reasonable price.
I was thinking along the same lines. With the 5770, I can already play StarCraft II on Ultra at 2560x1600 quite smoothly, so the 5870 probably wouldn't give me much bang for buck. I think I'll save the money and channel it toward an eventual Mac Pro upgrade in the next couple of years.
Thanks for the advice!
Wise decision. In World of Warcraft, another Blizzard game, the improvement from the 5770 to 5870 is not anywhere near what you'd expect in the outside game world. Its real improvement comes in raid scenarios when there are tons of textures to load. Note that the Windows client will show far greater gains on these 5000 series cards than will the OS X client due to OS X being four years behind in OpenGL (still using 2.4 extensions with minimal 3.1 extension support added by Blizzard's GLL backend for WoW).
We'd probably see a much different picture in terms of gains for both cards (and relative to each other) if OpenGL were actually current in OS X. But it is not, and you can thank Apple for that.
Actually, OS X has essentially all of the 3.0 spec. 22 out of 23 extensions were supported as of 10.6.3.
Still doesn't mean they don't have work they could do to enhance video performance.
You might want to take a good look at that list again. The 3.0 OpenGL spec extensions have 22/23 supported. 3.1-3.3 have almost nil support, with the most conspicuously unsupported parts being shader model 3.1-3.3, which are very important in games (and almost assuredly why Blizzard can't get shadows to work worth a damn in WoW without taking a supremely massive hit to framerates, as in a nearly 50% drop in framerate at the Ultra shadow setting).
And none of the 4.0 extensions are supported. Zero.
OpenGL Extensions Viewer fails on all 3.0+ tests. I'd say that's a pretty clear picture that 3.0 is only supported in a miniscule way right now, and why these two cards are showing so much better results in Windows on the same games than in OS X, as in Windows at least they get full DirectX support which is their mainstay in that OS (as OpenGL is what we have in OS X).
Just an update: 10.6.6 still adds no audio output capability to the MDPs. It's looking more and more like the drivers for this are on the 2010 Mac Pro install discs only and not anywhere else. And since Apple so thoughtfully (on purpose) packed no software disc with the graphics card, it's looking like they're intending to force those of us with non-2010 Mac Pros to get less for our money.
Anybody got a 2010 Mac Pro install disc I could snag?
Anybody got a 2010 Mac Pro install disc I could snag?
That'd be in Windows. No way is he going to get Ultra in SC2 in OS X right now. Both it and WoW are running into the OpenGL support wall (i.e. not even shader model 1.3 is supported, let alone anything newer), and sub-optimal drivers whereas the Windows side has mature driver support and HDMI audio output via the MDP ports.
I. Want. My. MDP. AUDIO.
I'd kill for a Mac Pro 2010 install disc to see if that's the magic bullet for that functionality...
The 5770 and 5870 will both function in an OS as low as 10.5.8, but will do so only as unacellerated 2D raster devices with only a single resolution available (typically the native resolution provided by your display's EDID). 10.6.4 PLUS the Snow Leopard Graphics update are required for full 3D support and multiresolution support. But you can use a 10.6 install DVD with no ill effects. The card will still function enough to let you perform the install until you've got its drivers fully in place.
I'm using a 4890 (which isn't too much more powerful than the 5770) and I have everything on Ultra. Starcraft 2 is actually smoother for me under OS X compared to Windows.
And yes, I realize it was 3.0, which is why I didn't say 3.1.
Am I correct in assuming nobody else has continued trying to find a way to get audio out via the MDPs in OS X on pre-2010 Mac Pros working?
My soul for a 2010 Mac Pro install disc to try out...
My soul for a 2010 Mac Pro install disc to try out...
Did you tried to get those discs from a local Apple Center? Just ask for a backup copy... bring an external HD with you and ask someone to let you make a copy of the discs!
I would suspect that very few people with a 2010 Mac Pro will be reading this thread. You might want to start a new one entitled 'My soul for a 2010 Mac Pro install disc' and someone will probably help you!!
So anybody have 3 monitors working on the 5770 without spending the big bucks on the apple dual link converter? I have my 5770 working like a charm on my 1,1 in both boot camp and osx. Asus 27" monitor and vizio 42" HDTV via dvi to hdmi are working great, but would love to hook up my little 21" hp for extra desktop.