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ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,880
4,187
Milwaukee Area
Hey sometimes you can come out swinging with a premium product that redefines a category and get away with pricing it at several times your competitors. This costs 10x the competition, not sure it provides 10x the function & quality of its competitors.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,377
33,258
exactly, almost every single person who saw the demo of the iPhone 1.0 couldn't wait to get their hands on it and knew it was going to change interaction with the internet and mobile communication.

Almost every person who saw the AVP demo were thinking "this is a $3500+ VR headset"

Yeah, it makes me wonder if people making these comparisons between AVP & iPhone simply weren't around and participating in the iPhone launch

There were lines around the block at Cingular stores (now AT&T)
People were camping
Everyone who used it was blown away

It was so obvious it was game changing once you tried it

There is no comparison to the AVP, which is wildly overpriced and has almost no Apps or content (even from Apple!)... and isn't doing anything obviously useful and appealing for a mass market user coming from a similar device of some kind (iPhone converged massively popular iPod, Phone and Wireless full blown Internet access)
 
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wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,782
2,766
Killer App meaning the core usage or value of the product, not downloadable app from the app store



The killer app of the iphone was the touch interface perfected vs smartphones of the era
If we're defining it that way, then spatial computing is the killer app. The best eye tracking, use your own hands requires no controllers, passthrough resolution good enough to wear for hours. Even AVP detractors do not deny any of these features. The only complaints I've heard about are price, battery life, weight/comfort and lack of software. Just like iPhone, all of those issues will be addressed in future gens.
 

Exponent

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2002
267
647
Silicon Valley
Gotta get that price cut in half.

Nothing matters more.
I think mostly it needs a purpose.

Quest has games, so it does OK. (Enough to recoup costs? Ehhh... And certainly the Zukerberg "meta verse" is dead in the water.)

PSVR2 has a few games, and nothing else, so it is doing... poorly. (The production line was shut down, at least for a while.)


AVP has few games, and some limited VR-specific content. It has normal iPad apps that gain nothing from being "spacial".

If I were Apple, I'd make AVP Mac-based, and push it to professional architecture and 3D graphics developers. They and their customers can justify the price, and MacOS has the APIs and code base better suited for professional tools.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,377
33,258
I think mostly it needs a purpose.

Quest has games, so it does OK.

On this note, it would help a lot of if they'd open up a touch and do some APIs for various 3rd party controllers and the like.

I know the Golf+ guys would LOVE to make that game for AVP, but they just can't without some VR controllers.
They've tested it with just arms/hands and said it just isn't good enough
 
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G5isAlive

Contributor
Aug 28, 2003
2,706
4,650
I live in the UK, I couldn't wait to buy it, but all this waiting is taking away my hype.
In the best case they will sell me a product that is already 4 months old at full price and they have completely taken away the pleasure of investigating what's new because others have already done it.

But it will be new to you... and the future really is still being written. It really is an amazing glimpse of what is going to be part of all our futures, maybe not even in two years from now, but if people don't think this is on the way they are being blind. There will be software updates you can still be part of. It really is the start, and you haven't missed much in these four months.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,377
33,258
It really is an amazing glimpse of what is going to be part of all our futures, maybe not even in two years from now

It will have to be a more widely appealing form factor for that ever to be true

I can promise you the mainstream isn't going to sit inside an isolating, covering your face, headset device for more than very occasional entertainment or extremely specific work related contexts.
 
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G5isAlive

Contributor
Aug 28, 2003
2,706
4,650
It will have to be a more widely appealing form factor for that ever to be true

I can promise you the mainstream isn't going to sit inside an isolating, covering your face, headset device for more than very occasional entertainment or extremely specific work related contexts.

You continue to miss the point. But sure, why is it every single sci-fi movie in depicting the future shows spatial computing? Because no one wants it? How many of them are using the controllers you seem to love so much? Sure, nor are they wearing AVP like goggles but technology has to start somewhere. So go ahead and keep talking about why nothing will replace the horse and buggy, all you are doing is showing lack of vision.
 

hagar

macrumors 68020
Jan 19, 2008
2,024
5,105
And now Timmy & Co. will get to see just how much of a flop this thing really is 🤣

Think about it... If people in the most developed nation on the planet (i.e. with the most disposable income) don't want this thing, what makes you think people in other, less developed countries will?

Especially given the current economic environment, with all the disasters happening right now. We've got wars, climate events, and many people can't even eat...
Thinking the US is the highest developed nation in the world but stating many people can’t even eat…

Anyway: the AVP is simply not an appealing product. Consuming content, doing office work, being creative, gaming, … either it’s too cumbersome or the right software isn’t there. And the fact not a single killer app has emerged since its launch is definitely concerning.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,248
8,242
Yes it does but it's a niche category called best spatial computing ecosystem on the market.
It redefined the category SO well, that the competition quickly adopted some of its most praised interface elements. What the Quest is able to do in just the last few releases, they had the ability to do over he last few years, but somehow only found the courage to make those recent changes after Apple vision has been seen by the world.

and, just like Apple defined the cell phone as rectangular glass and metal slab, I think there will be more than just a few companies copying the broad design of the Apple Vision Pro as well. :) When the leader of the competition is defining your project as what they are aspiring for, just a more open version of it, you know you’ve hit the ball out of the park.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,782
2,766
What else is in that category, in your view?
Nothing. That's why it is considered a new category. Since it's not selling well right now, no one else is claiming to be part of the category. But watch what happens when Apple reduces size and cost while introducing a few killer apps. It will sell a few million and you'll see Meta and others jump on the spatial computing bandwagon.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,782
2,766
It redefined the category SO well, that the competition quickly adopted some of its most praised interface elements. What the Quest is able to do in just the last few releases, they had the ability to do over he last few years, but somehow only found the courage to make those recent changes after Apple vision has been seen by the world.

and, just like Apple defined the cell phone as rectangular glass and metal slab, I think there will be more than just a few companies copying the broad design of the Apple Vision Pro as well. :) When the leader of the competition is defining your project as what they are aspiring for, just a more open version of it, you know you’ve hit the ball out of the park.
I'm really talking about the category, not elements that define it. My point is that Apple has defined spatial computing but no one uses that term because it's not selling well right now. Once it begins to sell in the millions, Meta will suddenly say that they've been doing spatial computing all along.
 

fatTribble

macrumors 68000
Sep 21, 2018
1,515
4,052
Ohio
I live in the UK, I couldn't wait to buy it, but all this waiting is taking away my hype.
In the best case they will sell me a product that is already 4 months old at full price and they have completely taken away the pleasure of investigating what's new because others have already done it.
Maybe at least consider doing the demo. I really enjoyed it
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,248
8,242
I'm really talking about the category, not elements that define it. My point is that Apple has defined spatial computing but no one uses that term because it's not selling well right now. Once it begins to sell in the millions, Meta will suddenly say that they've been doing spatial computing all along.
The developers of spatial computing type apps for the Quest are using that term because it loads the users mind with what to expect which, by and large, is based on the vision that only a few hundred thousand have had actual experience with, but has lit imaginations worldwide. Meta may never use it, but, as an idea, it encapsulates a lot of things that Meta has only just started to work on after seeing Apple Vision Pro.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,377
33,258
You continue to miss the point. But sure, why is it every single sci-fi movie in depicting the future shows spatial computing? Because no one wants it? How many of them are using the controllers you seem to love so much? Sure, nor are they wearing AVP like goggles but technology has to start somewhere. So go ahead and keep talking about why nothing will replace the horse and buggy, all you are doing is showing lack of vision.

Do you realize they make stuff up for movies?

Because they show something in a sci-fi movie doesn’t mean it’s even actually possible (or actually desirable for that matter).

Just to let you know, we aren’t gonna be traveling at Warp Speed anytime soon either
 

sharpie000

macrumors member
Jul 10, 2014
53
84
how many current AVP owners are still using it as much as they intended to? My gut feeling is the novelty wore off and now they're using it a couple of times a week to watch movies. Considering the induced physical pain as a result of the weight and strain on the eyes, I can't imagine this as a computing replacement.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,248
8,242
how many current AVP owners are still using it as much as they intended to? My gut feeling is the novelty wore off and now they're using it a couple of times a week to watch movies. Considering the induced physical pain as a result of the weight and strain on the eyes, I can't imagine this as a computing replacement.
Really? There are people with hands that now have limited functionality due to current computing. There are folks that MUST compute in special chairs with a special desk setup just to do their jobs. The bar is actually pretty low for how bad AVP has to be in order to be 100% worse than what people are experiencing now.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,377
33,258
how many current AVP owners are still using it as much as they intended to? My gut feeling is the novelty wore off and now they're using it a couple of times a week to watch movies. Considering the induced physical pain as a result of the weight and strain on the eyes, I can't imagine this as a computing replacement.

I was just at the local Apple store this afternoon for 15 mins and, I kid you not, there was only one single table with nobody at it ...

The AVP table

Nobody was playing with the iPads to learn more about AVP or set up an appointment ... nobody even glancing at it.

I jumped on one of the iPads, scanned the code to make an appointment and the entire afternoon of appointments was wide open.
 
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