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Mailia

macrumors 6502
Oct 25, 2010
282
475
Finland
This is a good solution. If a developer makes a lot of money off of the Apple API and ecosystem they have to pay.
If I sell goods online, should I also pay your Internet service provider a part of my income because I'm making money off their infra?

And developers already pay for the API without any per-install fees since you need to get your application notarised to publish it, and you can't get a notarisation if you don't pay Apple $99/year.
 

Contact_Feanor

macrumors 6502
Jun 7, 2017
254
767
Belgium


Apple today announced that it is tweaking the terms of the 0.50 euro Core Technology Fee (CTF) that apps distributed using the new EU business terms must pay, introducing a solution that would keep small apps that go viral from being bankrupt.

App-Store-vs-EU-Feature-2.jpg

First, independent and small developers who earn no revenue at all will not have to pay the CTF. Students, hobbyists, and freeware app developers who distribute free apps and earn no money will not be charged the fee. Developers will need to declare their non-commercial status on an annual basis, and to maintain this status, developers must have no revenue in or out of the App Store for their app product.

Second, to address fears of the CTF causing outrageous fees for an app that suddenly goes viral, Apple has implemented a three year on-ramping process for small developers. The three year period begins when a developer agrees to the new App Store business terms, and during this time, if an app goes viral and exceeds the one million annual install threshold that triggers the CTF, the CTF won't be charged if the developer earns less than 10 million euros in global business revenue, and the fee is reduced after that.
  • Under 10 million euros: No CTF during the three year period.
  • Between 10 million and 50 million euros: CTF must be paid, but it is capped at one million euros per year for the three year period.
  • Beyond 50 million euros: Benefit is no longer available, and the full CTF has to be paid.
  • After three years: Developers will pay for each first annual install after the initial one million first annual installs per year.
Note that this ramp up period is only available to small developers who have not previously exceeded one million first annual installs, and it is calculated based on global business revenue rather than just App Store revenue.

Apple says that 99 percent of developers will not be subject to the CTF to begin with, but the new ramp up period will go further to make sure that small developers who get a breakout hit will have time to scale their businesses before having to pay fees.

Back in March, developer Riley Testut spoke with Apple officials at a workshop on the Digital Markets Act, and he asked what would happen if a young developer had an app go viral and unwittingly racked up millions in fees. Testut asked the question because when he was a high school student, he released GBA4iOS outside of the App Store. It was unexpectedly downloaded more than 10 million times, and that would have bankrupted him had he been subject to the Core Technology Fee.

In response, Apple VP of regulatory law Kyle Andeers said that Apple was working on a solution because the company is not trying to stifle innovation. Apple believes that a free app going viral and being subject to exorbitant fees will be a rare occurrence, but the changes will keep that from happening. The CTF update will also be a welcome change for those who want to release entirely free apps outside of the App Store.

The CTF is only applicable to apps that have opted in to the new App Store business terms in the European Union. Apps in the EU are now able to be distributed through alternative app stores and developer websites without having to rely on the App Store.

Apple has more information about the new changes to the CTF on its updated CTF support page.

Article Link: Apple Tweaks EU Core Technology Fee to Avoid Bankrupting Unexpectedly Viral Apps
These changes are way more generous than I’d have expected them to come up with as a solution to this problem. I’d have expected a “you have to pay, but the payments are waived if you fold back into the App Store henceforward”
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,652
2,569
If I sell goods online, should I also pay your Internet service provider a part of my income because I'm making money off their infra?

And developers already pay for the API without any per-install fees since you need to get your application notarised to publish it, and you can't get a notarisation if you don't pay Apple $99/year.
No ISP charges that though?
 
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TigerNike23

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2017
877
2,078
Fort Myers, FL
My opinion is this: either the EU should accept some form of a fee like this OR the prices of iPhones and iPads go up €100 this year.

Either way Apple’s gonna get their money. That’s how Tim Cook works.
Personally, I’d like to see if Apple could back the EU into a corner to argue against the fee but also claim Apple can’t raise the prices of their devices.

That would just blow up the whole “free market” thing.
 
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mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,652
2,569
They would if they could.

That's actually part of what the whole net neutrality fight is about. We're trying to keep the internet from turning into a walled garden.
Net neutrality is about treating everyone the same.

If an ISP charged everyone the same fee that would still be neutral.
 

Victor Mortimer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2016
854
1,495
Certainly you’re not arguing the EU has the power to ban the CTF and place a cap on how much Apple can charge for their products, right?

If that’s the case I’d like a Michelin-starred restaurant dinner for 5 euros please.
So start lobbying the EU for restaurant price caps. It probably won't happen, but get enough people behind it and it could.

Governments have always been able to regulate prices. Sure, most haven't done it recently, but rent controls exist, and the US used to have gasoline price caps. There are still laws against price gouging, even if they're rarely enforced.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,652
2,569
So start lobbying the EU for restaurant price caps. It probably won't happen, but get enough people behind it and it could.

Governments have always been able to regulate prices. Sure, most haven't done it recently, but rent controls exist, and the US used to have gasoline price caps. There are still laws against price gouging, even if they're rarely enforced.
Price caps make sense on essential services like housing, gas, electricity, water, etc. App store fees? Not really an essential thing.
 

TigerNike23

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2017
877
2,078
Fort Myers, FL
So start lobbying the EU for restaurant price caps. It probably won't happen, but get enough people behind it and it could.

Governments have always been able to regulate prices. Sure, most haven't done it recently, but rent controls exist, and the US used to have gasoline price caps. There are still laws against price gouging, even if they're rarely enforced.
So you are advocating price caps on consumer electronic products?

Not rent, not fuel, not food, not medical care… but consumer electronic products.

Look, I respect the argument about Apple being a monopoly and needing regulatory oversight, but this argument is too much.
 

SanderEvers

macrumors 6502
Jan 27, 2010
403
1,070
Netherlands
If I sell goods online, should I also pay your Internet service provider a part of my income because I'm making money off their infra?

If you sell goods online you do so on a webstore based platform. This is either hosted by yourself. Which means you pay your own ISP for the bandwith and connection, hosted by a cloud platform which you pay directly, or hosted by a third party webstore. WHICH ALL REQUIRE A FEE TO SELL STUFF ON THEIR PLATFORM!

You have to pay in order to be able to sell stuff. This is nothing new, and has been from the invention of money. (transaction fees, sales taxes, etc)

And developers already pay for the API without any per-install fees since you need to get your application notarised to publish it, and you can't get a notarisation if you don't pay Apple $99/year.

Yes you have to pay them to have them test your app before you are allowed to release it. Which is basically the same as having a lab test your products before you are allowed to sell them.
 
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Mailia

macrumors 6502
Oct 25, 2010
282
475
Finland
If you sell goods online you do so on a webstore based platform. This is either hosted by yourself. Which means you pay your own ISP for the bandwith and connection, hosted by a cloud platform which you pay directly, or hosted by a third party webstore. WHICH ALL REQUIRE A FEE TO SELL STUFF ON THEIR PLATFORM!
And if I host my own iPhone application on a server that I own that goes through the connection I own and uses my bandwidth, I still need to pay Apple their cut for what exactly? And I mean the cut that exists beyond the separate $99/fee.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,652
2,569
And if I host my own iPhone application on a server that I own that goes through the connection I own and uses my bandwidth, I still need to pay Apple their cut for what exactly? And I mean the cut that exists beyond the separate $99/fee.
For having an app on an Apple product.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,272
Scandinavia
No one here seems to know what the law states.
Apple is continually setting themselves up as the commissioner( this is a legally defined word) and the DMA doesn’t give Apple the authority to ask a mandatory commission, nor to discriminate between the those distributing in and outside the AppStore.

As in the fees they pay isn’t tracked to actual costs they already pay if they distribute in the AppStore exclusively and those that choose to distribution them in other storefronts.

Article 5 obligations for the gatekeepers
4. The gatekeeper shall allow business users, free of charge, to communicate and promote offers, including under different conditions, to end users acquired via its core platform service or through other channels, and to conclude contracts with those end users, regardless of whether, for that purpose, they use the core platform services of the gatekeeper.​
The DMA states free access and the ability to conclude those agreements without using apples core platform services. And the payment system Apple implements is part of their Core platform as defined in the DMA point 7 and 8, as they again request that developers sign up to another service that also identifies them.

7. The gatekeeper shall not require end users to use, or business users to use, to offer, or to interoperate with, an identification service, a web browser engine or a payment service, or technical services that support the provision of payment services, such as payment systems for in-app purchases, of that gatekeeper in the context of services provided by the business users using that gatekeeper’s core platform services.​
8. The gatekeeper shall not require business users or end users to subscribe to, or register with, any further core platform services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) or which meet the thresholds in Article 3(2), point (b), as a condition for being able to use, access, sign up for or registering with any of that gatekeeper’s core platform services listed pursuant to that Article.​

NOBODY is forcing you to pick either Google or Apple. On Android you can chose to use the open soruce android using the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) see: https://source.android.com/ and if you don't want android at all you can always make or use a Linux phone.

Sure you can't use the awesome platforms Apple and Google spent BILLIONS to develop. But that is up to you.

I think it's really strange that the EU can basically say: "Thank you, Apple / Google for developing iOS / Androd. BTW. we own your system now. And if you don't listen to us, we'll fine you."
Well nobody is forcing Apple to sell in EU. It’s their market their rules.
 
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coolfactor

Suspended
Jul 29, 2002
7,202
9,992
Vancouver, BC
Whoever decided that Apple has to be the middleman for everything that happens on any iDevice is a financial genius

This is about the ongoing financing of the software platforms that developers leverage to build and sell their apps. iOS and macOS are not open-source operating systems like Linux. Remember when we end-users had to buy Mac OS upgrades for $129.00? That cost was moved over to developers instead.

Some can argue that developers don't need to pay Microsoft to install an app on Windows, but neither are they paying Apple for installing onto macOS. (Yet)

iOS has always been a closed ecosystem money-machine for Apple, so that's why they are trying to keep it that way. Developers that make a profit should not be able to do so at Apple's expense. When you open a business, you don't get your space for free. You buy or rent it. Don't pay for that and it gets taken away from you. Simple concept.

If we want Apple to continue investing into their platforms, the money has to keep flowing.
 
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