Apple used to be ahead of the curve

[stevensr123]

I kind of understand what yours saying, and it's kind of hard to believe how quickly google have managed to catch up ( and pass apple in some ways) and when I say google I mean samsung, htc etc as well.

2 years ago basically every magazine, reviewer etc said the iPhone was basically the best at everything, now what?

Android apps are catching up/have caught up both in terms of quality And quantity. Infact most apps and games basically look and act similar, both are fluid and rich experience, with the android versions having some extra features thanks to androids open experience. Although tablet apps are far suprier at the moment IMO but I reckon that will chance as well.

In terms of the screens now, the iPhones screen is laughable compared to the htc ones and the Samsung gs3. More and more consumers are wanting bigger screens, and the ppi are the new screens are just insanely good. Apple fanboys will say maker the ppi bigger now won't make a difference, you won't be able to notice it etc expect every review who has reviewed the htc one HAS noticed a massive difference in uplift. The iPhone screen is behind times.


Then you have IOS which has been getting trounced by android these days, android has become almost as simple to use as IOS, thanks to project butter and better specs on phones, it has become just as smooth as iOS, the htc one basically opens apps up instantly etc and android has so many functions build right into th e phone, were iOS still seems like just a wall of apps.

You also used to be able to brag about battery life when it comes to iPhones. Now you can't even do that since the battery life of the 5 isn't that much better than comparable android phones.

I moved away from iOS when the sg3 came out, and on Monday my htc one arrives which looks like the complete device.

Apple need to step up big time this year otherwise they are going to eat the dust.

 

[Paradoxally]

Apple need to step up big time this year otherwise they are going to eat the dust.

Not really. I understand that Apple is slightly declining in its aura and majorly in its stock price, but is that really a cause for huge concern?

Let's see, there are like a billion Android phones out there, 98% crappy and 2% that are really good (c'mon now, ever used a crappy Android?). Those high-end Androids are really good in their features, but they aren't what typical consumers really want or need. Why should the average Joe get a Samsung Galaxy S4 above an iPhone 5?

People still rely on experience. I, myself, tried to use an Android phone in the most purest of trials, with the Nexus 4. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful phone - but it's not for me. I quickly noticed this when most apps have option menus larger than their screens (so you have to scroll down to see all the options). When it gets THAT big, it's usually too much choice. In my view, you don't want to create an app that's too simple, but don't make something that allows the user 100 customization options or something similar just to get the app minimally working or configurated.

The app quality in Android land, like you said, is similar. True, on phones this is nearly identical, but on tablets it isn't (as you referred). Try using a Nexus 7 and then an iPad. The latter is years away in refinement, because apps are MADE for the iPad specifically (or universal). I do not like to use apps that are stretched counterparts of their phone version. Sure, you might say: 'oh, that's scalable', but it's not good UI. Fragmentation and quality do not go hand in hand. This is why you think differently when you program for tablets and when you make apps for iPhone.

I'm not an average Joe, I'm a software developer with a nearly equal passion for hardware. I love Apple's simplicity, clean design, good funcionality, and the 'just works' mentality. Androids offer way, way too much customization for my liking (this is an advantage to many, don't get me wrong, but not for me), and things that are overly complicated that should be simple (like option menus and notifications). When I program, I like to kind of hide the complicatedness of an app, and make it's frontend simple while having a powerful backend. I don't want to overwhelm the user. This is my philosophy.

Apple need not worry too much, the average consumer will still prefer an iPhone 9 times out of 10, mostly because brand and also due to experience. It's still 'hip' and 'trendy' to use one (not so much like 2009-2010 though), and if you use Android, most young crowds will go like 'ew, this is ugly, just get an iPhone' (it's like they view Blackberries). Most people like simple things, that are clean, functional, fluid, and beautiful. And iOS, while rather oldish, still provides that to the nines.

Of course, this is a technology forum, so Androids and features are mostly seen (in this sub-forum at least) as something amazing and 'ooh, shiny', but people need to think different and realize there are more out there than the nerds and fanboys of both platforms. You have to think of the average consumer.

And they (still) prefer iPhone.

 

[tjl3]

So I was just watching a review of the One. It got me thinking about the screen, and screens of other flagship smartphones. So for the longest time Apple has been able to say their iPhone Retina display is one if not the best screens. It was one of the things that the iPhone still could say it had better specs in. Now with the One that is gone. The PPI is insane.

What I was also thinking is the Retina display kind of started the high resolution displays on smartphones. Now though the iPhone 5 display seems not so great. I don't think we will see an update of the screen in the iPhone 5s, so Apple will go another year without updating the display? At that point will they bring something so much better than 1080p that it want matter? I kind of doubt it. Do Apple and iPhone users not care? It seems iPhone users like to talk about how the iPhone is better, but the screen is not one of the things they can do that with anymore.

Where is Apple going? It does not seem like the same Apple. Not caring about having this and that is something different. It use to be they let the world know what they had first. There does not seem to be firsts anymore. Is the iPhone 6 were "Everything changes again"? Will we see a smartphone ever do that again?

Disclaimer: this is not me saying the sky is falling for Apple. Just kind of want to see your guys thoughts on what kind of direction they are going in. Some people are saying The One is the best android phone they have ever tested. With that said I want to know where that puts Apple for this years phone and the future.

Apple will get away with their retina display for years to come, if they choose to. I don't think it will compromise their product. iPhone can always be faster, more power efficient, more feature filled, etc. And users will continue to clamor for this because these are discernible upgrades.

And then there is the GPU and battery to consider. The retina iPad is running a more powerful GPU (granted it has almost twice the resolution of a 1080p display) and has a massive battery to help. If there is one thing we can expect from Apple, it's they won't compromise user experience (without good reason... Maps -_-). Apple has been leading the industry w/ the GPU they use, and it'll be interesting when Samsung uses the same GPU in their GS4. But the battery capacity in the GS4 will be twice that of the iPhone 5, so there is still that to consider.

If they do go to 1080p, it's more likely b/c the market dictates it. Whether its that they can seamlessly implement it or it's more cost efficient to source the same display as everyone else or whatever.

 

[jaymzuk]

Not really. I understand that Apple is slightly declining in its aura and majorly in its stock price, but is that really a cause for huge concern?

Let's see, there are like a billion Android phones out there, 98% crappy and 2% that are really good (c'mon now, ever used a crappy Android?). Those high-end Androids are really good in their features, but they aren't what typical consumers really want or need. Why should the average Joe get a Samsung Galaxy S4 above an iPhone 5?

But only one of those billion Android phones needs to be head and shoulders above the iPhone to become the go-to phone. The the iPhone joins the 999,999,999 Android phones in being irrelevant in your horribly crude example.

I've got an iPhone 4S, and have been out of contract since last June. Why should I buy a 5, or an impending 5S, or a Galaxy S4, or an HTC One for that matter? When I do come to replace it, the myriad of phones are so similar when it comes to features, that there's little compelling reason to go for anything in particular.

 

[bmac4]

I think Apple is comfortable with the user experience the iPhone offers. Being able to put a bigger number on a specs page in comparison to an Android phone has never been Apple's goal. They just wanted the screen to look sharp, and at 326 ppi it does look sharp. Granted, it can be sharper and higher res, but I think they are comfortable.

And I think that could be their downfall. In this industry, getting comfortable means you aren't pushing yourself. And if their stock prices are any indication, they need to start pushing pretty hard real soon.

I not sure that is the case. I know they could careless if they have the biggest processor nor will the average iOS user even care if their phone has the best screen, but it sure seemed like Apple cares. Look at all their Ads selling things about the phone. They use to sell that great looking retina screen they really can't now.

Even before the HTC One they could still say they had better PPI. That is what Apple has for the longest time. Now they can't say that the HTC One can. The review I saw was basically saying this might be the best phone he has ever reviewed. Was this what Apple was waiting on before they took a big step ahead? If they keep on the same track they have been on then the iPhone 5s will be just a spec bump and again that screen want match. If they wait till the iPhone 6 to make changes then those android phones are going to be even better. I understand they like things the way they are and developers like them keeping thing very uniform, but at some point people are going to compare a flagship android phone to the iPhone and say why would I still buy this when this android offers so much more.

 

[bmac4]

It seems most think Apple does not care about the screen or any of the specs being the best. They need to make developers happy. I have heard this a lot in terms of making the screen bigger, and just over all changing anything about the iPhone. Are developers really who Apple cares about? Are they not trying to sell to consumers? Most consumers are not developers. So I want to look at 3 different types of smartphone buyers.

First the older group. People older than 50. I went into a Best Buy about a month ago to look at the Note 2. I was talking to the sales guy. I was telling about me liking android better and wanting to buy another android device. We got to talking about what phones they sell and to who. I said I am sure you sell more iPhones to the older crowd. I was saying anything over 35. He said that group from 35-50 yes he does, but he then told md something that was very surprising. He said the 50+ group has changed. He said he had a guy in his 60s came in looking for a phone. He sold him an iPhone 5 I believe told him it would be super easy to use. That is what he had always done, and that has work up until that point. The man came back a couple of days later and said he was not happy. The sales guy then showed him some android phones. I am not sure which android phone he got, but he did get an android. The guy came back a week later, and said why did you not sell me this android phone from the beginning. He said love the big screen and can see it. He said he could not read the iPhone very well at all. I know this group of people is not big enough to put a dent into iPhone sales, but easy to use has always been a selling point for Apple.

OK so the next group college students girl to be more specific. iphones have always been the "cool" phone to have. I work on a college campus, and I am not far removed from college. I am 27 so I do understand this group. If you walk around a college campus most of the people will be using an iPhone. So looking at college girl going to buy her next smartphone. Her last phone was an iPhone, so she likes it and thinks that what she wants again. Until about a year ago the iPhone would be an automatic choice, but now she has some choices. Now the HTC One is out. Looking at the 2 phones it is plain the One has the better screen. Now a big issue is screen size. Girls want something that will fit in their pockets. The One might still work, but big question is it the cool thing to have? I still can answer that and time will tell, bit looking at the phones side by side the average user is going to now be able to tell the difference between the screens on these phones. HtC is very easy to use, so this might just make things much harder.

The last group is tech people like me. I am an android guy, but I appreciate what Apple is doing. All the tech bloggers and such still have iphones, but a lot of them are saying how awesome the HTC is. Will this change their view?

If only one of these last 2 groups has a large change is phones choice things could completely change. I just think the margin for things changing is so close. Will it who knows, but with the HTC One now out it could happen.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Specs don't matter unless apple's specs are better. But when the competition offers better specs then it's just all about the better overall experience that apple offers.

See this sort of stuff all the time. That's generally how it works with many certain apple fans.

 

[thehustleman]

Not really. I understand that Apple is slightly declining in its aura and majorly in its stock price, but is that really a cause for huge concern?

Let's see, there are like a billion Android phones out there, 98% crappy and 2% that are really good (c'mon now, ever used a crappy Android?). Those high-end Androids are really good in their features, but they aren't what typical consumers really want or need. Why should the average Joe get a Samsung Galaxy S4 above an iPhone 5?

Because it's a better phone, better screen, you can do what you want with it because it's actually your phone, bigger screen, better battery life, more compatible, simpler, basically everything iphone should have became but didn't

[/quote] People still rely on experience. I, myself, tried to use an Android phone in the most purest of trials, with the Nexus 4. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful phone - but it's not for me. I quickly noticed this when most apps have option menus larger than their screens (so you have to scroll down to see all the options). When it gets THAT big, it's usually too much choice. In my view, you don't want to create an app that's too simple, but don't make something that allows the user 100 customization options or something similar just to get the app minimally working or configurated.

.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to tinker with an Android app to get it working, just use it, the tinkering comes when you want to improve it.

Some things on ios need hide improvements, like the keyboard! That thing SUCKS!

 

[daveathall]

First the older group.

I am in this group, coming up to 56 and not technically savvy, I found that I could use my S3 and Nexus 4 straight from the box, but as time goes on I gradually learn to adjust/modify my phone to suit me, whether that be atheistically pleasing home screens or short cuts, they were not needed straight from the get go as others have suggested but evolved as I got used to and more confident with my phone. But the biggest plus for me is that I can browse and see the content on my phones screen without putting my glasses on, sounds daft, but it is a real plus. I won't go back to an iPhone until the screen is larger.

 

[bmac4]

Specs don't matter unless apple's specs are better. But when the competition offers better specs then it's just all about the better overall experience that apple offers.

See this sort of stuff all the time. That's generally how it works with many certain apple fans.

Yea I have has those arguments before. I am more posting to say I am kind of confused by Apple right now. I like them a lot and have nothing against them. The iPhone right now is just as good as anything out there, but the HTC One from what I am seeing matches that easy to use state of mind. Which is what iOS has held onto all this time.

My question is will Apple still not doing anything? I think android has been slowing creeping up, and now the One might just have a good UI people can like as much as iOS. I fell like this is not normally Apple M.O. Yea I know they are in it to make customers, and works. I am not saying they are in trouble just seems like a much different Apple.

 

[WhiteIphone5]

I could care less for a bigger screen. I want better features. LTE on the iPhone 5? Why not 4S. Passbook? Why no NFC? Software features remain the same with only mininal upgrades. In my opinion the iPhone 3G and iPhone 4 were game changers to me. IPhone 5 is just a tall iphone 4S with lte and a better processor

 

[tjl3]

Specs don't matter unless apple's specs are better. But when the competition offers better specs then it's just all about the better overall experience that apple offers.

See this sort of stuff all the time. That's generally how it works with many certain apple fans.

Specs matter a little too much for some. Too many people disappointed that the Exynos CPU is not coming to their GS4 market before seeing any real use. I personally would never sacrifice LTE.

My question is will Apple still not doing anything? I think android has been slowing creeping up, and now the One might just have a good UI people can like as much as iOS. I fell like this is not normally Apple M.O. Yea I know they are in it to make customers, and works. I am not saying they are in trouble just seems like a much different Apple.

Screen aside, there isn't much that others are offering (hardware wise) that Apple isn't, unless you really are talking specs. But that's sort of the troubling thing, we're getting dangerously close to how PCs have plateaued, in that they are getting spec bumps year to year but not much that would continually attract customers to refresh. The difference being the wear and tear you put on your smartphone.

I don't think any phones that have come out lately have been game changers. I honestly think too much change too will alienate their customers (Windows 8!) And right now they aren't in any imminent danger, they're still leading the smartphone race in sales.

PS I still don't like Sense, never have and would likely flash stock/CM over it if I bought One =D

I could care less for a bigger screen. I want better features. LTE on the iPhone 5? Why not 4S. Passbook? Why no NFC? Software features remain the same with only mininal upgrades. In my opinion the iPhone 3G and iPhone 4 were game changers to me. IPhone 5 is just a tall iphone 4S with lte and a better processor

Keep in mind that the LTE chip in the 5 is much more power efficient than the technology available during 4S release. I would hate the 5 if it performed like the LTE GNex! I agree w/ you on NFC though. One of my criteria for buying iPhone 5 was NFC. I considered passing, but I had to jump to Verizon b/c my AT&T service was becoming unbearable. Right now I only use NFC on my Nexus 4 at the vending machine, so I guess it wasn't a big loss to me personally.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Just watch this video review of the S4 and you'll see why Apple is "falling behind the curve."

When was the last time you saw a smartphone review like this? Seriously.

 

[bmac4]

I am in this group, coming up to 56 and not technically savvy, I found that I could use my S3 and Nexus 4 straight from the box, but as time goes on I gradually learn to adjust/modify my phone to suit me, whether that be atheistically pleasing home screens or short cuts, they were not needed straight from the get go as others have suggested but evolved as I got used to and more confident with my phone. But the biggest plus for me is that I can browse and see the content on my phones screen without putting my glasses on, sounds daft, but it is a real plus. I won't go back to an iPhone until the screen is larger.

Yea I was kind of surprised when the Best Buy guy said that, but I get it now.

 

[pivo6]

I am in this group, coming up to 56 and not technically savvy, I found that I could use my S3 and Nexus 4 straight from the box, but as time goes on I gradually learn to adjust/modify my phone to suit me, whether that be atheistically pleasing home screens or short cuts, they were not needed straight from the get go as others have suggested but evolved as I got used to and more confident with my phone. But the biggest plus for me is that I can browse and see the content on my phones screen without putting my glasses on, sounds daft, but it is a real plus. I won't go back to an iPhone until the screen is larger.

Same for me. I'm 47 and the iPhone screen is just getting too small to see without my reading glasses on. Now with alternative phones with larger screens, my next phone will unlikely be an iPhone.

 

[bmac4]

Well from just the few replies I have seen after talking about age groups and phones. It seems that the 45+ age group seems to be looking for something bigger than the iPhone. I understand that Apple makes sure they don't upset their developers and make the screen bigger so that apps have to be completely reworked. At some point don't customer needs come first? Again I know the whole age group is not looking for a new phone, and the age group does not make up a large number of iPhone users.

Now I think the key group is the 20-45 or 50 age group. This contains college students in it which to me makes up a lot of iPhone users. Now at this point Apple has nothing to worry about. Like I said on campus I see iphones everywhere. Maybe this is all Apple is truly worried about. It just seems like Apple since they kind of got the iPhone where they wanted it on the iPhone 4. We have not see a ton of change. IOS seems about the same and it is very good. The shape of the iPhone seems to be what Apple wanted. Was this Apple's goal all along?

I guess I am so use to over the last 6 years seeing new things from Apple that when they get something they like, and a large part of the customers like they don't change it much. Look at the Macs. They had changed a lot until the iMacs and Macbooks came along. Now they just get some minor updates, but for the most part they have found a sweet spot. It does kind of seem that Apple did find a sweet spot with the iphone, and it just waiting on something to come along and really compete. At this point nothing really has. I guess up until now I never looked at Apple this way. When I first started getting into gadgets Apple release iPods, iPhone, iPad, and iPad mini. All products that changed a gadget category. I guess I have been spoiled a bit.

So I guess I will ask this as well let me know which age group you are in, and what phone you are planning on getting in the near future.

 

[strausd]

I not sure that is the case. I know they could careless if they have the biggest processor nor will the average iOS user even care if their phone has the best screen, but it sure seemed like Apple cares. Look at all their Ads selling things about the phone. They use to sell that great looking retina screen they really can't now.

Even before the HTC One they could still say they had better PPI. That is what Apple has for the longest time. Now they can't say that the HTC One can. The review I saw was basically saying this might be the best phone he has ever reviewed. Was this what Apple was waiting on before they took a big step ahead? If they keep on the same track they have been on then the iPhone 5s will be just a spec bump and again that screen want match. If they wait till the iPhone 6 to make changes then those android phones are going to be even better. I understand they like things the way they are and developers like them keeping thing very uniform, but at some point people are going to compare a flagship android phone to the iPhone and say why would I still buy this when this android offers so much more.

A 326 to 440+ ppi doesn't add too much to the user experience. Every Android phone going from ~170 to 300+ does. But now everybody is just playing a number game.

 

[Paradoxally]

But only one of those billion Android phones needs to be head and shoulders above the iPhone to become the go-to phone. The the iPhone joins the 999,999,999 Android phones in being irrelevant in your horribly crude example.

I've got an iPhone 4S, and have been out of contract since last June. Why should I buy a 5, or an impending 5S, or a Galaxy S4, or an HTC One for that matter? When I do come to replace it, the myriad of phones are so similar when it comes to features, that there's little compelling reason to go for anything in particular.

It's not horribly crude at all. The Galaxy S4 has way more features than the iPhone, and the iPhone 5 will still sell more overall. Samsung sell more phones than Apple because they have a ton of low-end crappy phones as well.

This is what people don't understand. It's very nice when you're informed and know and care a lot about specs and feature-set...but most people care more about user experience, design and quality. Things they can see, not benchmarks.

And in that market, iPhone is front and center, because Apple know how to market it. Unlike companies like Samsung.

You're crazy if you think the iPhone will become irrelevant just because high-end Android phones can do better and more. Less is more for some users, me included.

 

[bmac4]

It's not horribly crude at all. The Galaxy S4 has way more features than the iPhone, and the iPhone 5 will still sell more overall. Samsung sell more phones than Apple because they have a ton of low-end crappy phones as well.

This is what people don't understand. It's very nice when you're informed and know and care a lot about specs and feature-set...but most people care more about user experience, design and quality. Things they can see, not benchmarks.

And in that market, iPhone is front and center, because Apple know how to market it. Unlike companies like Samsung.

You're crazy if you think the iPhone will become irrelevant just because high-end Android phones can do better and more. Less is more for some users, me included.

Your right in that Apple has done a great job of marketing, but Samsung has also done a lot of marketing. The S3 sold the most phones in the 3rd quarter of last year. Sure the iPhone want go away, and it will still be huge. You can say Samsung does not do a great job of marketing. I bet you remember those ads about the iPhone lines. "The next big thing".

 

[Paradoxally]

Your right in that Apple has done a great job of marketing, but Samsung has also done a lot of marketing. The S3 sold the most phones in the 3rd quarter of last year. Sure the iPhone want go away, and it will still be huge. You can say Samsung does not do a great job of marketing. I bet you remember those ads about the iPhone lines. "The next big thing".

I consider Samsung's marketing to be cheap in terms of quality. Did they really need a kid to overhype their latest flagship phone??? It's just a phone, jeez.

And they put too much emphasis on things nearly no one uses, like NFC. Their ads are cringy to me. I much prefer Sony's, and I think the Xperia Z is beautifully marketed.

So is Google's.

 

[bmac4]

I consider Samsung's marketing to be cheap in terms of quality. Did they really need a kid to overhype their latest flagship phone??? It's just a phone, jeez.

And they put too much emphasis on things nearly no one uses, like NFC. Their ads are cringy to me. I much prefer Sony's, and I think the Xperia Z is beautifully marketed.

So is Google's.

Have you ever used an android phone before? That is a naive to say NFC is something no one uses.

 

[tjl3]

I consider Samsung's marketing to be cheap in terms of quality. Did they really need a kid to overhype their latest flagship phone??? It's just a phone, jeez.

And they put too much emphasis on things nearly no one uses, like NFC. Their ads are cringy to me. I much prefer Sony's, and I think the Xperia Z is beautifully marketed.

So is Google's.

The google one is pretty good. The previous one with the kid and face unlock, not so much.

I liked the Sony commercial but it's just way too long. Viewers already don't want to watch commercials why would they sit through a 2 minute one. And this is one reason I hate the latest Samsung commercials. They are so long. They try to be anecdotal but I feel like they just lose focus. The other reason is that they envision the world made up of two types of people: hipsters and very unintelligent, simple minded, shallow people.

That said I also hate all of apples commercials. The last one that was good was being a rock star. The only credit I give them is that they are short and to the point.

Have you ever used an android phone before? That is a naive to say NFC is something no one uses.

Not saying s beam is played out. But marketing it in every commercial is.

 

[bmac4]

The google one is pretty good. The previous one with the kid and face unlock, not so much.

I liked the Sony commercial but it's just way too long. Viewers already don't want to watch commercials why would they sit through a 2 minute one. And this is one reason I hate the latest Samsung commercials. They are so long. They try to be anecdotal but I feel like they just lose focus. The other reason is that they envision the world made up of two types of people: hipsters and very unintelligent, simple minded, shallow people.

That said I also hate all of apples commercials. The last one that was good was being a rock star. The only credit I give them is that they are short and to the point.



Not saying s beam is played out. But marketing it in every commercial is.

Sure but he said it was a NFC was something no one uses. Completely incorrect

 

[onthecouchagain]

Woah, if true: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Report-Apple-looking-for-new-CEO_id42184

Report: Apple looking for new CEO

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Woah, if true: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Report-Apple-looking-for-new-CEO_id42184

Report: Apple looking for new CEO

wow. Even if it's not true, the fact that there's a rumor is worse for Apple confidence than any drop in share price.