Apple used to be ahead of the curve

[jrswizzle]

I'm simply saying you're painting a misleading picture.

PS. I never said iOS 7 was a good update. But if we're talking about being in the "forefront of technology" this update doesn't quite quality. It modernizes and brings iOS up to speed; this hardly means the forefront of technology. Do people understand what "forefront" means?

My question would be, what is the forefront of tech and who do you think is there?

I'm assuming Apple isn't, someone else must be in front of them. Who is it? Samsung? Google?

While you're right that you didn't say it wasn't a good update, equating it to the minor app updates Google pushes out during the year makes it seem like you aren't all that enthused - especially for someone who purports to be objective and keeping an open mind about iOS.

 

[onthecouchagain]

My question would be, what is the forefront of tech and who do you think is there?

I'm assuming Apple isn't, someone else must be in front of them. Who is it? Samsung? Google?

While you're right that you didn't say it wasn't a good update, equating it to the minor app updates Google pushes out during the year makes it seem like you aren't all that enthused - especially for someone who purports to be objective and keeping an open mind about iOS.

You're drawing conclusions I'm not making.

 

[jrswizzle]

You're drawing conclusions I'm not making.

Enlighten me....

 

[onthecouchagain]

This is the general impression I'm getting:

Apple is an innovator, but when others innovate, it's either a) not useful; b) not innovating "correctly" somehow; c) not really innovating because innovation isn't possible anymore and the general tech industry is now just "maturing" which simultaneously allows Apple to get away with not always innovating (to some degree, I agree to this last thing). It's almost always a combination of this sort of reasoning.

Also...

If Apple adds features that others have had for years, they're either a) actually doing it right; b) not really stealing or copying because, again, the industry is maturing; c) have different litigation philosophies so it's okay for nobody to sue them (and okay for Apple to copy); AND it doesn't matter if they aren't particularly useful or not -- still worth applauding them for adding features.

This is what I've gathered regarding people's responses to iOS 7. Gotta love it.

----------

Again, I think iOS 7 is a necessary and good update for iOS users. But, as others have mentioned, the double standard and the hypocrisy both practiced by Apple themselves and by their certain fans are laughable. More power to y'all.

 

[jrswizzle]

This is the general impression I'm getting:

Apple is an innovator, but when others innovate, it's either a) not useful; b) not innovating "correctly" somehow; c) not really innovating because innovation isn't possible anymore and the general tech industry is now just "maturing" therefore allowing Apple to get away with not always innovating (to some degree, I agree to this last thing). It's either a combination of this.

Also...

If Apple adds features that others have had for years, they're either a) actually doing it right; b) not really stealing or copying because, again, the industry is maturing; c) have different litigation philosophies so it's okay for nobody to sue them (and okay for Apple to copy); AND it doesn't matter if they aren't particularly useful or not -- still worth applauding them for adding features.

I love it.

Come on couch - I thought you'd be above all those regurgitated memes....

I've never said anything of the sort. Here are my responses to each:

Innovation is thrown around too much. In my eyes, there haven't been very many innovations since 2007. I'm not here to say Apple innovated in iOS 7. Perhaps with the intelligent multitasking, but really given the vast number of definitions for innovation around here, I'd just as soon stay away from the word.

My thoughts are: Apple added some great features to an OS and ecosystem I prefer. I'm not concerned with individual features, rather I look at the entire package (which includes OS, software, ecosystem, hardware, what my family and friends use and how me using the same thing makes it easier to communicate and share). I completely understand if you are a "feature counter", how Android looks much better to you. It is. Use it. My hatred of Samsung stems from their advertising and marketing strategies and the distaste for TouchWiz and their software. In their case, the features individually seem great (even though I'd likely never use most of them) and this is how you're thinking when I talk about them. However, I'm still thinking about the whole - the fact that all those features cause some lag and slow down on an otherwise superior-spec device, how I'm left with only half my memory, how Samsung utilizes plenty of proprietary sharing software I won't take advantage of. And so my conclusion that Samsung's features aren't that great.

Does this make sense? I realize it comes from a somewhat biased view. But of course I'm biased by my preferences, wants and needs. I find it hard not to be (basically we would simply be checking off a list of features and whoever had the most at the end won - nevermind implementation and experience).

And I'm fine with saying "Apple copied". Yes, Android has had quick toggles for a while. Android has had live wallpapers, and so on. But why is it never acknowleged the other way? Those things I mentioned earlier, most of the announcements at Google I/O 2013 were features already present in iOS. Yet I didn't hear any of this "hey Google is copying Apple" (except from myself as a joke).

The truth is, each company began on a different path. Apple began with polish at top of mind. So they released a highly polished, somewhat feature-light smartphone and OS. Over time, more features are added, but generally only when they can be polished (I know I'll get the Siri and Maps examples. Nothing is 100%).

On the other hand, Android began with an OS that packed as many features as they could at the time. As time has passed, Google has moved to polish those features more and more. Each is adding things the other has had because now each has reached a state of maturity. iOS is adding some features it was lacking and Android is adding the polish. Both, though, retain the original philosophy and feel they began with (for the most part) and this is what makes each unique and sets each apart. This is where you ultimately choose your side/preference.

Ultimately, I think both OSes are in a great state right now. Continued refinements, adding newer technology and searching for the next major service or software that will change the game is always there, but doesn't happen very often. That's why its so shocking and causes such huge waves when it does.

I hope this makes sense. I like both, use both and hope that these double standards either dissipate or can at least be talked about honestly as I try to do.

 

[onthecouchagain]

I've never said anything of the sort. Here are my responses to each:

Then maybe my post wasn't for you.

 

[jrswizzle]

Then maybe my post wasn't for you.

Why keep pandering to the token group of iOS fanatics who espouse the same memes over and over about iOS and Android? All you're doing is fueling the fire.

I'd love for you to respond to my thoughts - I think they are relatively unique and in the minority around here. And I generally think you have some unique thoughts as well.

But with posts like the one I responded to, you're throwing yourself into the "typical Android fan" pool that has about 5-10 pre-programmed sentences in response to the same 5-10 pre-programmed sentences you THINK you'll hear from the other side.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Why keep pandering to the token group of iOS fanatics who espouse the same memes over and over about iOS and Android? All you're doing is fueling the fire.

It's a nice narrative that you're trying to weave that iOS fans don't think that way anymore. If only it were true. You, sir, yourself just pointed to your own double standard in a post to me moments ago regarding applauding Apple for adding features you admittedly will not use versus when you berated Samsung for adding features that are seemingly useless (Hey, I don't even disagree with you per se -- I wouldn't use eye scrolling over thumb scrolling if I could help it, but I'm not bashing them for trying to push technology in new directions. I don't bash Apple for doing the same.)

Again, this isn't -- and never really was, for me anyway -- about who's copying who. In fact, I implore Apple to copy more (like I implored Google to copy more when they were clearly behind on battery technology, for example. Today, my HTC One lasts longer than any phone I've ever ever owned. It's ridiculous). I hope Apple copies the swiping for their keyboard. iOS 8, maybe.

And this is only talking about software.

When are we going to get a notification light? When are we going to get screen size options? Dual front facing speakers? This year, maybe? Or 2014? Again, copy away, Apple. Anytime you're ready.

 

[bmac4]

Then maybe my post wasn't for you.

Alright couch when I say Apple is back in the forefront I am talking about being one of the leaders in smartphone tech. Not the sole leader. We know they are not that, but with iOS 7 this was a much needed update that puts them right back with google and I guess Samsung since they want to do their own thing. You took all my comments way out of proportion.

 

[onthecouchagain]

You know what the Apple vs Google/Samsung sort of reminds me of?

Nintendo vs Sony vs MS.

In many ways, they're very parallel. Not to the tee, of course, but it does remind me of it.

Nintendo being Apple, if that's not clear.

The Wii came out and blew everyone's minds away and spawned a whole new way of playing and interacting with games. Then Sony/MS follow suit, advance faster, give bigger and better specs, and now have leapfrogged over Nintendo.

Any of this sound familiar?

Just an observation.

----------

Alright couch when I say Apple is back in the forefront I am talking about being one of the leaders in smartphone tech. Not the sole leader. We know they are not that, but with iOS 7 this was a much needed update that puts them right back with google and I guess Samsung since they want to do their own thing. You took all my comments way out of proportion.

No offense, but that's not what forefront means, then. I didn't take anything out of proportion -- I took it for exactly what it meant.

But it's all clear now.

I don't know if it brings Apple directly up to speed. Again, to me, it's still missing serious keyboard improvements / still missing third party default apps (you have all the world's apps, but can't make them default) / still missing true email attachments / no file system / still HORRIBLE notification banner (I sincerely don't know how anyone can tolerate banners that block the screen and buttons. It's madness that this is acceptable).

Again, a good and necessary update for iOS overall. Not much else.

It's cool if others feel differently. At the end of the day, it's still iOS with many of the same limitations.

 

[bmac4]

You know what the Apple vs Google/Samsung sort of reminds me of?

Nintendo vs Sony vs MS.

In many ways, they're very parallel. Not to the tee, of course, but it does remind me of it.

Nintendo being Apple, if that's not clear.

The Wii came out and blew everyone's minds away and spawned a whole new way of playing and interacting with games. Then Sony/MS follow suit, advance faster, give bigger and better specs, and now have leapfrogged over Nintendo.

Any of this sound familiar?

Just an observation.

Come on that is not the case at all and you know it. The iPhone still is one of the best selling phones. The Wii is not at all.

 

[rillrill]

the steward needs to step down and give the reign over to someone with a vision.

 

[bmac4]

You know what the Apple vs Google/Samsung sort of reminds me of?

Nintendo vs Sony vs MS.

In many ways, they're very parallel. Not to the tee, of course, but it does remind me of it.

Nintendo being Apple, if that's not clear.

The Wii came out and blew everyone's minds away and spawned a whole new way of playing and interacting with games. Then Sony/MS follow suit, advance faster, give bigger and better specs, and now have leapfrogged over Nintendo.

Any of this sound familiar?

Just an observation.

----------



No offense, but that's not what forefront means, then. I didn't take anything out of proportion -- I took it for exactly what it meant.

But it's all clear now.

I don't know if it brings Apple directly up to speed. Again, to me, it's still missing serious keyboard improvements / still missing third party default apps (you have all the world's apps, but can't make them default) / still missing true email attachments / no file system / still HORRIBLE notification banner (I sincerely don't know how anyone can tolerate banners that block the screen and buttons. It's madness that this is acceptable).

Again, a good and necessary update for iOS overall. Not much else.

It's cool if others feel differently. At the end of the day, it's still iOS with many of the same limitations.

By saying forefront you me in the front, but never does it mean alone. Nor did I mean they were alone in the front. Like the title of the thread says I felt they were not as much in the front for the past couple of years. This IMO puts them right back there. You can believe whatever you want, but wait until the next iPhone comes out and come back and tell me they are not in the forefront. Sorry you will be wrong.

 

[ReanimationN]

You know what the Apple vs Google/Samsung sort of reminds me of?

Nintendo vs Sony vs MS.

In many ways, they're very parallel. Not to the tee, of course, but it does remind me of it.

Nintendo being Apple, if that's not clear.

The Wii came out and blew everyone's minds away and spawned a whole new way of playing and interacting with games. Then Sony/MS follow suit, advance faster, give bigger and better specs, and now have leapfrogged over Nintendo.

Any of this sound familiar?

The Wii's the best selling 7th generation console though. Sony and MS didn't follow suit until later when it comes to motion controls, and neither the Kinect or Move proved to be very popular. It'll be the next generation that'll be telling. The Wii U is struggling, it isn't as casual friendly (and all the casuals have left for tablets and smartphones) and 3rd parties aren't all that interested in it so far. It'll pick up steam quickly once games like Super Smash Bros are released though. Which phone company is MS in the upcoming console generation? You know, the one who has enraged all their fans with new, restrictive DRM measures and has told fans who want a console that doesn't need to connect to the Internet to buy their previous generation console?

 

[pivo6]

By saying forefront you me in the front, but never does it mean alone. Nor did I mean they were alone in the front. Like the title of the thread says I felt they were not as much in the front for the past couple of years. This IMO puts them right back there. You can believe whatever you want, but wait until the next iPhone comes out and come back and tell me they are not in the forefront. Sorry you will be wrong.

According to the dictionary app on my Mac


forefront |ˈfôrˌfrənt|
noun (the forefront)
the leading or most important position or place: we are at the forefront of developments.


Looks like your definition differs slightly from the New Oxford American version.

 

[bmac4]

According to the dictionary app on my Mac


forefront |fôrfrnt|
noun (the forefront)
the leading or most important position or place: we are at the forefront of developments.


Looks like your definition differs slightly from the New Oxford American version.

Well excuse me. That is not how I meant it. I did not mean it as the front runner by themselves. I just meant they were in the front with google again.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Come on that is not the case at all and you know it. The iPhone still is one of the best selling phones. The Wii is not at all.

Game consoles follow a different product cycle. They get refreshed every 5-7 years instead of every year like smartphones. The console generation with the Wii is ending right now but when it came out the Wii was highly disruptive.

Its track record of disruption is what makes Apple unique - the company has repeatedly leveraged disruptive tech/designs/business models to take over markets. It changed music distribution to blow up the MP3 player market, changed mobile sw distribution to take over the smartphone market, destroyed the netbook market to create the tablet market.

That said, there's nothing disruptive about iOS 7. They just reskinned iOS 6, added a few new features, and some odd flourishes like Parallax. It's is like Rovio creating a new Angry Birds game and calling it innovative

 

[Vegastouch]

Well excuse me. That is not how I meant it. I did not mean it as the front runner by themselves. I just meant they were in the front with google again.

No they aren't. To say they are ahead of Google to me is a bit of a laugher. Even if you meant they are even, I'd disagree.

Its a nice update.... For Apple compared to what they have done lately but as mentioned, it still lacks quite a few things. I hated the iPhone keyboard and it is still the only choice to name one on top of what has already been mentioned. Its also imo still too small of a device and thats a biggy for me and obviously many other people.

They have this new look on the OS so let's hope they give the face of the iPhone a new look from that same one from 2007 and make it AT LEAST a 4.5" screen size.
For me, till they do those things, i won't even consider a iPhone.

 

[Dolorian]

No they aren't. To say they are ahead of Google to me is a bit of a laugher. Even if you meant they are even, I'd disagree.

Its a nice update.... For Apple compared to what they have done lately but as mentioned, it still lacks quite a few things. I hated the iPhone keyboard and it is still the only choice to name one on top of what has already been mentioned. Its also imo still too small of a device and thats a biggy for me and obviously many other people.

Definitely, for me iOS 7 seems more like a reactionary move by Apple as opposed to a bold step forward (something they actually did with the new Mac Pro imo). In terms of functionality, the whole update seems very derivative, looking at the features page I found myself thinking "oh Android has been doing that for a while" the majority of the time. It is Apple playing catch up in the mobile OS department in the same way they sort of played catch up with the iPhone 5.

That said, I think this is something Apple needed to do as iOS was feeling more and more dated by the day and some of the excesses in skeuomorphism that the design had were at odds with what is considered good interface design these days (even tho I feel that the new design feels unpolished, that they went flat for the sake of going flat and i personally do not like the icons, among other things).

In any case, I personally applaud them for being able to do something different and breaking out of their mold even going against what Steve Jobs prefered.

 

[bmac4]

No they aren't. To say they are ahead of Google to me is a bit of a laugher. Even if you meant they are even, I'd disagree.

Its a nice update.... For Apple compared to what they have done lately but as mentioned, it still lacks quite a few things. I hated the iPhone keyboard and it is still the only choice to name one on top of what has already been mentioned. Its also imo still too small of a device and thats a biggy for me and obviously many other people.

They have this new look on the OS so let's hope they give the face of the iPhone a new look from that same one from 2007 and make it AT LEAST a 4.5" screen size.
For me, till they do those things, i won't even consider a iPhone.

The problem with your post is that is all just your opinion. Nothing there confirms they are not even with Google. The sales say something completely different. I like both OS, but if I did not have the money to have an iPhone and android device I will choose android. I just think that Apple is being some good stuff to the table.

Of course people like you will never see a smaller phone with just one keyboard as anything less than android, but most people could careless about the keyboard or don't know anything about having a different keyboard. These are all preferences of yours that not everyone shares.

 

[Vegastouch]

Ji ENo

The problem with your post is that is all just your opinion. Nothing there confirms they are not even with Google. The sales say something completely different. I like both OS, but if I did not have the money to have an iPhone and android device I will choose android. I just think that Apple is being some good stuff to the table.

And yours is fact? The problem with your posts are they are also your admitted "biased" opinion.
Im replying with my phone which i dont really like to do in a forum so im not going to run down a list that would be quite long as to what iOS still wont be able to do.

Of course people like you will never see a smaller phone with just one keyboard as anything less than android, but most people could careless about the keyboard or don't know anything about having a different keyboard. These are all preferences of yours that not everyone shares.

And it is also preferences many do share but you will see it how you want to. Just look at the market share.

Just like you don't like touchwiz, others... Most others i should say,.... Don't care either way and never change it and use another launcher. Even in here when we tell them there are many others to use as an alternative. They don't want to try one. My Daughter included.
She keeps using TW even though I've showed her how to make the homepage look better. She doesn't care but says she likes her Android phones better than an iPhone even though she likes using the mini and MBP over any other tablet and laptop.
Part of that is she likes Swiftkey a lot and there's no such option on iPhone.

All that said, im not at all bashing Apple. I just take issue when your say they have caught up with Google from this update which again, is a nice one for Apple compared to the last two but its just a lot of copying the compitition while giving a much needed new skin while still lacking other features. However, a bigger screen would be very nice. We'll see.

 

[.:Aleph:.]

So CNET has many articles about this year's WWDC and in one of them it states:

It's also a blatant defense of Apple's lack of any significant new hardware in recent months. In fact, it's been more than eight months since Apple gave the world a new mobile phone, and more than seven months since the iPad Mini debuted.

Wow, CNET, eight months?! Seven months?! LMAO. So what, now every six months we need to shell out $700 for a new mobile phone or tablet? Who on earth wants a new piece of unnecessary hardware every six months...

 

[onthecouchagain]

Soon, Apple (and it's legion of fans) will one day realize larger phones and one handed use are not enemies. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Appl...ear-colorful-entry-level-one-to-be-99_id44004

"Apple is reportedly seriously examining 4.7" and 5.7" sizes"

Slowly taking steps into the future. It's about time you joined the party, Apple. : fingers crossed :

 

[bmac4]

Ji ENo
And yours is fact? The problem with your posts are they are also your admitted "biased" opinion.
Im replying with my phone which i dont really like to do in a forum so im not going to run down a list that would be quite long as to what iOS still wont be able to do.



And it is also preferences many do share but you will see it how you want to. Just look at the market share.

Just like you don't like touchwiz, others... Most others i should say,.... Don't care either way and never change it and use another launcher. Even in here when we tell them there are many others to use as an alternative. They don't want to try one. My Daughter included.
She keeps using TW even though I've showed her how to make the homepage look better. She doesn't care but says she likes her Android phones better than an iPhone even though she likes using the mini and MBP over any other tablet and laptop.
Part of that is she likes Swiftkey a lot and there's no such option on iPhone.

All that said, im not at all bashing Apple. I just take issue when your say they have caught up with Google from this update which again, is a nice one for Apple compared to the last two but its just a lot of copying the compitition while giving a much needed new skin while still lacking other features. However, a bigger screen would be very nice. We'll see.

No I am not being bias. I am saying that people say just because the iPhone is not bigger and it does not offer a different keyboard does not make it behind the curve. Those are choices that Apple has made, and guess what a lot of people like it. I know android owns the larger market share, but look at phone sales compared to phone sales. iPhone wins every time. Android does sale more phone, but that is because you have 100s of android phones.

I know there are people like you that don't like a smaller screen, and the keyboard, but to says Apple is behind because they are not changing those things is crazy.

----------

Soon, Apple (and it's legion of fans) will one day realize larger phones and one handed use are not enemies. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Appl...ear-colorful-entry-level-one-to-be-99_id44004

"Apple is reportedly seriously examining 4.7" and 5.7" sizes"

Slowly taking steps into the future. It's about time you joined the party, Apple. : fingers crossed :

I will says this for the 1000 time. This is your opinion. Why do people have to want a larger phone? Why are iPhones still one of the best selling smartphones on the market. Just because you want a larger screen and different keyboard does not mean everyone does. My sister has small hands and wants nothing to do with a big screen. Are people like that wrong? They should be forced into liking a bigger screen because you and a lot of android users want Apple to change? I don't get it just because you like larger screen does not mean Apple and its fans should want the same.

 

[onthecouchagain]

No I am not being bias. I am saying that people say just because the iPhone is not bigger and it does not offer a different keyboard does not make it behind the curve. Those are choices that Apple has made, and guess what a lot of people like it. I know android owns the larger market share, but look at phone sales compared to phone sales. iPhone wins every time. Android does sale more phone, but that is because you have 100s of android phones.

I know there are people like you that don't like a smaller screen, and the keyboard, but to says Apple is behind because they are not changing those things is crazy.

----------



I will says this for the 1000 time. This is your opinion. Why do people have to want a larger phone? Why are iPhones still one of the best selling smartphones on the market. Just because you want a larger screen and different keyboard does not mean everyone does. My sister has small hands and wants nothing to do with a big screen. Are people like that wrong? They should be forced into liking a bigger screen because you and a lot of android users want Apple to change? I don't get it just because you like larger screen does not mean Apple and its fans should want the same.

Seriously? The concept of choice is really lost on you isn't it? Wow...

Shouldn't your argument be precisely why apple should offer more size options? Think about it.