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Apple Vision Pro Battery Supports Up to 2.5 Hours of 2D Video Playback

citysnaps said:
I view AR as a tool that helps people solve problems. Not something that would be used continuously all day; such as normal computer use.

For just one example... A home/building/landscape architect who conducts a walkthrough of a home/building/garden he/she designed for a client.

Allowing a client and home architect (two AVPs) to walk through the designed home going into every room and space, with the client suggesting changes if needed (and the architect being able to make simple changes on the spot), so the client can get a realistic feeling of their new home. And if satisfied, approve the design.

Something like the above might take an hour or two if there are minimal changes.

Currently client design approvals are done with a set of paper drawings showing a 2D top view plan. And/or looking a computer screen of a set of images that are 3D rendered on a 2D screen. Neither are very good.

A landscape architect would do the same thing with a client; walking through front/back gardens, suggesting changes (plants, rocks, walkways, trees, mounds, hardscape, sprinklers, etc), and if all is good, the client approving the plans. That should take about an hour or so if the design is close to what the client expects.

And of course interior designers working with a client doing a walkthrough of interior spaces, considering chosen furniture, rugs, tables, beds, paintings, etc.

Again... the above is just one example. There are countless more. None of which involve an AR headset being used continuously for an 8 hour day.
Click to expand...

So, a microscopic market that’s already being served by industry dedicated hardware? No mention of surgery this time?

And by the way, sharing pre-press comps with clients on an iPad Pro works great. Asking my client to put on a helmet so that they can see their project when I could just hand them my iPad? That seems sub-optimal to me.
 
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Abobrek said:
And yet it has a battery life of 2.5 hours for a 2D movie. How do you expect what you are explaining to be of interest to the demographic you are describing when the logistics of simply having to charge the Apple Vision Pro every hour to perform the examples you have described? “Sorry, we are currently charging, give us a moment and we will help you.”
Click to expand...

You may find this shocking, but for now, perhaps Apple might be willing to sell extra batteries?

Once more, as I've said before here... this is a 1st gen AVP, where Apple is targeting developers to get devices in hand in order to create interesting AR applications. And, for a number of people with healthy imaginations and curious about AR, and its possibilities.

There will be future AVP generations where size, battery life, computation abilities, etc, will be improved, and sold at a lower cost.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
I worked on CRT monitors too and they were not variable resolution. The first ones I used were 640x480. Fixed. Zooming in and out of an image doesn’t change the native resolution. 640x480 is 640x480. Period.
Click to expand...
CRT monitors do not have physical pixels that correlate 1 to 1 with the pixels that the computer outputs. The driving of the electron beam that is painting the scanlines on the screen is not precise enough to hit every pixel square on.
Surf Monkey said:
Opposite, actually. I’m discussing some of the obvious issues with the headset when it comes to the kind of work that pays my bills.
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I can point out myriad issues that people will have with the AVP.
  • People complain about PWM on standard displays, well guess what, having a narrow pulse width (or a 1000 Hz refresh rate) is integral to how VR works
  • Internal reflections in the lenses will lower contrast compared to directly viewing an equivalent screen
  • When you swivel your eyes to look at the left side of the VR screen, you lose FOV to the left.
  • You can't actually see all 23 million pixels because of the issue above, and because of some padding to account for varying eye distances and positions due to different face shapes.
  • Not having a 1:1 pixel correlation can be an issue for some tasks, I don't deny that.
  • The edges of the view in VR headsets are typically softer than the middle.
  • People here are going to be very disappointed if they think they can have a virtual display the same size as a physical screen they typically use, but with equivalent information(text) density.
  • Streaming even just one screen from a Mac will result in compression artifacts and some lag
I could go on and on...

And that's not even getting into software. I expect that even some first party apps will be missing functionality that's available in iPhone and iPad apps. People will want better window management. Better API access (iPad and iPhone apps that have to access the camera probably won't work).

Once it's released, I expect many threads here full of complaints about things that weren't noticed by the press during a carefully guided 30 minute demonstration.

I do think some people are much to optimistic about the capabilities... but some of the discussions here are about the future of VR/AR in general, not just the first generation of AVP with visionOS 1.0.

I'm not against criticism of the headset, far from it. I just think the most of the specific criticisms you make are inaccurate or absolutist.

I see advantages and disadvantages when it comes to physical activity, social aspects, comfort, accessibility, functionality, portability, etc.

Surf Monkey said:
You’re the one making the absolutist argument that this system = your eyesight for all intents and purposes. That isn’t accurate.
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Nope. I was just pointing out that when a display knows where you're looking at it, it doesn't have to display at full quality on every pixel of the screen.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
So, a microscopic market that’s already being served by industry dedicated hardware? No mention of surgery this time?

And by the way, sharing pre-press comps with clients on an iPad Pro works great. Asking my client to put on a helmet so that they can see their project when I could just hand them my iPad? That seems sub-optimal to me.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're an architect speaking from direct experience. Tell me more. Much more.

It certainly wasn't my experience having gone through that multiple times as a client. My architect will be all over this tech.


"No mention of surgery this time?"

You may not be aware that the bulk of Apple's market are not customers who will be performing surgical procedures.

For some reason you insist on ignoring that when I was talking about AR-assisted surgery was with respect to a use case of AR applications in general.

Please... let that finally sink in.
 
Jensend said:
I do think some people are much to optimistic about the capabilities... but some of the discussions here are about the future of VR/AR in general, not just the first generation of AVP with visionOS 1.0.
Click to expand...

Thank you. But sorry... that's not going to conveniently fit the narrative he's trying to push.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
And by the way, sharing pre-press comps with clients on an iPad Pro works great. Asking my client to put on a helmet so that they can see their project when I could just hand them my iPad? That seems sub-optimal to me.
Click to expand...
When I was doing catalog work, we had a wall of a room that had hundreds of printed two page spreads of the catalog we were working on. You could have something like that in VR, where pages could be rearranged. There are creative industries that do similar things with story boards or even just a ton of sticky notes with ideas on them.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
And I get it. You love it sight unseen.

See how that works?

What I’m taking about is how the device renders images, not how your eye perceives the world.
Click to expand...

Actually I don’t love it, been clear I’m trying to decide if I want to buy it or not, but what you are talking about is your opinion on how the device renders and I’m giving my opinion on an alternative. You seem to think the apv is like strapping two monitors on your head. Even a cursory review informs it’s more.
 
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citysnaps said:
There's a rich history here of doomsaying and predicting Apple products will flop. iPod, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods, etc. Apparently that's viewed as establishing forum cred.
Click to expand...
Two posts in and you manage to insult people's legitimate critiques in both of them. What is wrong with you?
 
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robbietop said:
DO you not understand that your hands and arms will get tired from moving them around for hours?
Click to expand...
Not sure if you’ve seen the demo, but your arms and even hands don’t really move for the most part as you’re navigating in VP. It’s all done with eyes and finger pinch to select, and your hands can be at rest on your lap. This is in contrast to say a laptop where you’re arm/hand is always moving a mouse or on a trackpad.

Also why do people seem to be so emotionally pitted against a piece of hardware? 🤔
 
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Jensend said:
CRT monitors do not have physical pixels that correlate 1 to 1 with the pixels that the computer outputs. The driving of the electron beam that is painting the scanlines on the screen is not precise enough to hit every pixel square on.

I can point out myriad issues that people will have with the AVP.
  • People complain about PWM on standard displays, well guess what, having a narrow pulse width (or a 1000 Hz refresh rate) is integral to how VR works
  • Internal reflections in the lenses will lower contrast compared to directly viewing an equivalent screen
  • When you swivel your eyes to look at the left side of the VR screen, you lose FOV to the left.
  • You can't actually see all 23 million pixels because of the issue above, and because of some padding to account for varying eye distances and positions due to different face shapes.
  • Not having a 1:1 pixel correlation can be an issue for some tasks, I don't deny that.
  • The edges of the view in VR headsets are typically softer than the middle.
  • People here are going to be very disappointed if they think they can have a virtual display the same size as a physical screen they typically use, but with equivalent information(text) density.
  • Streaming even just one screen from a Mac will result in compression artifacts and some lag
I could go on and on...

And that's not even getting into software. I expect that even some first party apps will be missing functionality that's available in iPhone and iPad apps. People will want better window management. Better API access (iPad and iPhone apps that have to access the camera probably won't work).

Once it's released, I expect many threads here full of complaints about things that weren't noticed by the press during a carefully guided 30 minute demonstration.

I do think some people are much to optimistic about the capabilities... but some of the discussions here are about the future of VR/AR in general, not just the first generation of AVP with visionOS 1.0.

I'm not against criticism of the headset, far from it. I just think the most of the specific criticisms you make are inaccurate or absolutist.

I see advantages and disadvantages when it comes to physical activity, social aspects, comfort, accessibility, functionality, portability, etc.


Nope. I was just pointing out that when a display knows where you're looking at it, it doesn't have to display at full quality on every pixel of the screen.
Click to expand...

CRT’s have fixed resolutions. They have a physical GRID that defines the DOT PITCH. The dot pitch grid DOES DIRECTLY CORRELATE TO PIXELS. A CRT beam isn’t just painting the image on a blank surface. It’s painting on a grid. Like a screen door. Raster graphics.

So yeah. Your misinformation around basic CTR mechanics makes the rest of your rationalizations useless. No matter how much you complain, a 640x480 screen can only display 640x480 pixels. Nothing you do will ever make it display any more than that. It has a fixed native resolution that is hardware defined. That’s how CRT screens work.
 
Jensend said:
When I was doing catalog work, we had a wall of a room that had hundreds of printed two page spreads of the catalog we were working on. You could have something like that in VR, where pages could be rearranged. There are creative industries that do similar things with story boards or even just a ton of sticky notes with ideas on them.
Click to expand...

You aren’t going to finalize pre-press files in a headset. Color correction alone would be impossible.
 
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subjonas said:
Also why do people seem to be so emotionally pitted against a piece of hardware? 🤔
Click to expand...
The same reason so many people seem emotionally invested in a piece of hardware? This is an Apple fan board. We talk about all aspects of Apple products because we’re Apple fans. Clearly there are more supporters of the VP here but the high number of people with legitimate concerns about it is exceptional for any Apple product. Not because anyone is overly invested emotionally but because the issues with it are so obvious.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
You aren’t going to finalize pre-press files in a headset. Color correction alone would be impossible.
Click to expand...
OK, then don't? You criticize people for bringing up niche use cases in support of VR, then bring up your own niche use case to criticize it. What percentage of monitors are ever used for color correction?

The Vision Pro isn't the best option for every use case. VR has advantages and disadvantages. I brought up a way that it could help me in the print industry, and you brought up a disadvantage.
 
Surf Monkey said:
CRT’s have fixed resolutions. They have a physical GRID that defines the DOT PITCH. The dot pitch grid DOES DIRECTLY CORRELATE TO PIXELS. A CRT beam isn’t just painting the image on a blank surface. It’s painting on a grid. Like a screen door. Raster graphics.

So yeah. Your misinformation around basic CTR mechanics makes the rest of your rationalizations useless. No matter how much you complain, a 640x480 screen can only display 640x480 pixels. Nothing you do will ever make it display any more than that. It has a fixed native resolution that is hardware defined. That’s how CRT screens work.
Click to expand...
A color CRT screen has a mask with a fixed grid of holes, but the holes can't be individually targeted. Even if the CRT has precisely 640×480 visible holes per color, and you are outputting an image from the computer that has 640×480 resolution, you can never precisely align the two grids.

The masks are to keep the 3 colors separate. The dot pitch does set an upper limit on detail even though it isn't precisely aligned with the image pixels. (Edit: not entirely accurate, this image demonstrates sub-pixel detail, but it's only effectively in one axis)

Monochrome CRTs don't have masks, because there are no colors to keep separated.
 
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Don't think that anyone will be using it continuously for more than 2.5 hours. Real world usage might vary from Apple's estimates.
 
Don't install .0 software and don't purchase 1.0 hardware (unless you really need to). Its that easy.
 
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subjonas said:
Not sure if you’ve seen the demo, but your arms and even hands don’t really move for the most part as you’re navigating in VP. It’s all done with eyes and finger pinch to select, and your hands can be at rest on your lap. This is in contrast to say a laptop where you’re arm/hand is always moving a mouse or on a trackpad.

Also why do people seem to be so emotionally pitted against a piece of hardware? 🤔
Click to expand...
I bet you $10 that people start asking for KeyBoard and Mouse support in the next few months, which will be just ****ing hilarious.
 
robbietop said:
I bet you $10 that people start asking for KeyBoard and Mouse support in the next few months, which will be just ****ing hilarious.
Click to expand...
Why would people ask for that since it's always had keyboard and mouse support because it was always intended to also work as multiple Mac displays.
 
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