General Apple's promises and reality

[C DM]

What flavor was your kool-aid anyway?

Sure the updates require changes. You are defending them releasing an update that is not ready for releaee just so they can meet the numbers Wall Street wants to see, customer satisfaction be damned.

There is no justification to rush a product to market that is not ready even though Apple has been pretty successful doing just that. Apple ran the Keynote for the first iPhone almost expecting a demo unit to fail onstage.

I'm talking about the reality of what it's like when it comes to many software companies out there. I get that it's not the way things some think it all should be, but it's simply how they are, as is the case for many things in life. Nothing wrong about wanting something better/more, but the reality still has to be accounted for what it is.

I offered an alternative likely scenario, nothing less, nothing more.

 

[I7guy]

The point we are making is that unless there are massive issues with someone's iOS 9 install, it should be faster than iOS 8 or at least rrhe same speed - and it's not.

I can't notice milliseconds of difference in launching apps, but since iOS 9 overall seems faster, especially safari; getting stuff done end to end seems faster. And even if that is not the case by the stop watch, the safari improvements, especially in older devices like my iPad 2, are tangible.

 

[lolbie]

all those people complaining, while this is one of the better IOS releases i've seen
maybe all you whining people should look for answers instead of bitching

maybe you all have old apps installed on your phone that is causing these lags ( I had that problem when ios 8 came out )

well that being said, I am having zero problems with Ios 9.1 Beta 2

 

[Salvor Hardin]

iOS 9 promised increased battery and performance and it has not delivered. You feel it is, but based on app launch times on older devices it is not and on newer devices (at least the iPad mini 2s and iPad Air 1s in my familhit stutters more .

Notice how they never gave any statistics or figures about better performance, compare it to how they lay out exactly what to expect for the performance enchantments in El Capitan here. If someone makes a claim like that without actual data to back it up expect that marketing is behind the claim and not anyone of the development side.

 

[Looney01]

iOS 9 needs the works of works to fix. Why don't you put your foot in an Apple Engineer's shoe & see how easy it is?

That's not our frikken problem! I don't care how easy or difficult it is to fix. I am a paying customer and I expect a certain level of performance from Apple hardware and software.

Why don't you go join Apple and help them fix this mess so that I can enjoy my iPhone properly!

 

[iOZZY]

In my opinion a £600+ IPhone 6 Plus should be nigh on perfect.... Hell even my cheepo Sony Z1 Compact performs better than this croc of s****! Never buying another apple product at launch again or upgrading iOS early...stuff em!

 

[throAU]

So, curious to know; out of the people who are having iOS9 problems, how many have actually bothered to call apple or log a support issue for it? I'm guessing close to zero?

I've had problems with iOS upgrades before, they were resolved fairly quickly on advice from Apple via telephone.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Why are they on a new software version change every

So, curious to know; out of the people who are having iOS9 problems, how many have actually bothered to call apple or log a support issue for it? I'm guessing close to zero?

I've had problems with iOS upgrades before, they were resolved fairly quickly on advice from Apple via telephone.

This is an OS issue, not an issue that can be resolved on a case by case basis. When designing software (I am a software engineer by degree and profession), you design different versions for different hardware. Based on hardware different versions install on devices. Each version should be optimized on its respective hardware. It seems they are focusing on the latest hardware, and not optimizing for even the year before.

Based on Apples history, it appears that the x.0 versions are simply not ready for prime time for the previous years hardware. 4.0 wasn't really great until 8.4+. Perhaps they should revisit the x.0 annual version upgrade timeframe, and wait until they have an equivalent x.4... Or, do not make the newest OS available on older devices until after they are ready and still release it for the new hardware. Not sure the solution, but this isn't really working.

 

[C DM]

Why are they on a new software version change every


This is an OS issue, not an issue that can be resolved on a case by case basis. When designing software (I am a software engineer by degree and profession), you design different versions for different hardware. Based on hardware different versions install on devices. Each version should be optimized on its respective hardware. It seems they are focusing on the latest hardware, and not optimizing for even the year before.

Based on Apples history, it appears that the x.0 versions are simply not ready for prime time for the previous years hardware. 4.0 wasn't really great until 8.4+. Perhaps they should revisit the x.0 annual version upgrade timeframe, and wait until they have an equivalent x.4... Or, do not make the newest OS available on older devices until after they are ready and still release it for the new hardware. Not sure the solution, but this isn't really working.

While you are technically right, a big part of getting to the x.4 releases is the real world feedback from actual use cases. They should be able to get it to a x.1 level at least before releasing, but they would need to be out to get more feedback and to be able to work on other new features.

Most of software releases work this way where not everything is addressed or done by the time things are released. It's not perfect by any means but it is what the reality is like. Not to mention that Apple still sells tons and tons of iOS devices all the time with a high level of user satisfaction, so while they can and really should do things better in various aspects, it still seems to work just fine for them as far as how things have been going.

 

[JT2002TJ]

While you are technically right, a big part of getting to the x.4 releases is the real world feedback from actual use cases. They should be able to get it to a x.1 level at least before releasing, but they would need to be out to get more feedback and to be able to work on other new features.

Most of software releases work this way where not everything is addressed or done by the time things are released. It's not perfect by any means but it is what the reality is like. Not to mention that Apple still sells tons and tons of iOS devices all the time with a high level of user satisfaction, so while they can and really should do things better in various aspects, it still seems to work just fine for them as far as how things have been going.

At a minimum, the previous years hardware should run silky smooth on release. I spent $1,000 last year on a 6+, it shouldn't have major issues on day 1 of release of the next OS.

It may be working now, but it will only work until it doesn't...

 

[C DM]

At a minimum, the previous years hardware should run silky smooth on release. I spent $1,000 last year on a 6+, it shouldn't have major issues on day 1 of release of the next OS.

It may be working now, but it will only work until it doesn't...

There should definitely not be major issues or even ones that are somewhat smaller than that, but minor ones aren't all that unexpected (even if it would be great if those didn't exist either).

 

[oldmacs]

So, curious to know; out of the people who are having iOS9 problems, how many have actually bothered to call apple or log a support issue for it? I'm guessing close to zero?

I've had problems with iOS upgrades before, they were resolved fairly quickly on advice from Apple via telephone.

I logged performance issues all through the beta and have send feedback post release.

The problem is that it is slower than iOS 8 and I don't think Apple gives a damn.

I can't notice milliseconds of difference in launching apps, but since iOS 9 overall seems faster, especially safari; getting stuff done end to end seems faster. And even if that is not the case by the stop watch, the safari improvements, especially in older devices like my iPad 2, are tangible.

Its bleeding obvious when instead of a instant animation after tapping an app to open becomes a lag where the app icon turns black and waits before rendering an animation.

Differences in seconds do add up they make every single thing slower.

I'd be willing to say that iOS 9 is definitely slower on A5 devices, and if anyone can do side by side testing (clean install of iOS 8 & 9 + restored from the same backup) and show that iOS 9 is at least as fast as iOS 8 if not better - I'D LOVE to see it.

Notice how they never gave any statistics or figures about better performance, compare it to how they lay out exactly what to expect for the performance enchantments in El Capitan here. If someone makes a claim like that without actual data to back it up expect that marketing is behind the claim and not anyone of the development side.

If they couldn't deliver, then why mention it at all. The iOS 9 site clearly says foundation will deliver improved performance etc. False advertising I say.

Besides - why should iOS 9 be slower? They've had a whole year to develop it and it has minimal new features compared to previous releases so I have no idea what they spent the last year doing.

all those people complaining, while this is one of the better IOS releases i've seen
maybe all you whining people should look for answers instead of bitching

maybe you all have old apps installed on your phone that is causing these lags ( I had that problem when ios 8 came out )

well that being said, I am having zero problems with Ios 9.1 Beta 2

THERE ARE NO ANSWERS!

If an operating system is running slower than the previous version on perfectly functional hardware across multiple devices on a CLEAN INSTALL, then what answers are there?

Its got nothing to do with me - its Apple's issue. Plenty of people reported lag and slow performance in the PBs and yet they are apparently still evident in the public release.

 

[C DM]

If they couldn't deliver, then why mention it at all. The iOS 9 site clearly says foundation will deliver improved performance etc. False advertising I say.

Besides - why should iOS 9 be slower? They've had a whole year to develop it and it has minimal new features compared to previous releases so I have no idea what they spent the last year doing.

That's what they were and are shooting for and what it will hopefully be with a few updates. It's marketing essentially about what they want to say they want iOS 9 to be. It's like that with much of software or really any products that advertise all kinds of things but in reality don't quite live up to them for many. It shouldn't be that way, but it's the reality of how it's always been (even beyond Apple). It's not great or good, in particular in the eyes of the consumers, but it's more or less the norm that has been accepted long ago. Certainly nothing wrong with taking about it and hoping for more/better, as long as reality doesn't get just ignored.

THERE ARE NO ANSWERS!

If an operating system is running slower than the previous version on perfectly functional hardware across multiple devices on a CLEAN INSTALL, then what answers are there?

Its got nothing to do with me - its Apple's issue. Plenty of people reported lag and slow performance in the PBs and yet they are apparently still evident in the public release.

It was worse when iOS 7 was released, and iOS 8 had its share of issues upon release. Apple dealt with many of them with new updates, so hopefully things will get addressed with upcoming updates in this case as well (and hopefully sooner than later).

 

[oldmacs]

That's what they were and are shooting for and what it will hopefully be with a few updates. It's marketing essentially about what they want to say they want iOS 9 to be. It's like that with much of software or really any products that advertise all kinds of things but in reality don't quite live up to them for many. It shouldn't be that way, but it's the reality of how it's always been (even beyond Apple). It's not great or good, in particular in the eyes of the consumers, but it's more or less the norm that has been accepted long ago. Certainly nothing wrong with taking about it and hoping for more/better, as long as reality doesn't get just ignored.

They shouldn't have released without the features they announced (foundation). Simple as that. iOS 9 should not have been released until it was as fast as iOS 8.

I just don't understand how you can have Microsoft release a desktop OS that is faster or on par with its predecessor (Windows 10 vs Windows 8) while adding new features, and developing for countless numbers of hardware configurations, compared to Apple with a limited number of iOS devices. Sure desktop OS's are difference to mobile operating systems, but given the resources Apple has and the price you pay for apple devices its atrocious.

It was worse when iOS 7 was released, and iOS 8 had its share of issues upon release. Apple dealt with many of them with new updates, so hopefully things will get addressed with upcoming updates in this case as well (and hopefully sooner than later).

Did Apple boast about performance increases with iOS 7? No. Did iOS 7 have a limited feature/ change set? No.

iOS 7 on my iPhone 4 is more satisfactory (even at launch) than iOS 9 on my Mini 2. Why? The iPhone 4 doesn't have random lag when app icons are tapped. Also the 4 was on its last software update and featured very outdated hardware. The Mini 2 was sold as the Mini 3 up until recently. I guess that is all relatively besides the point though.

Had Apple not talked about performance increases than this would have still been an issue, but less so. iOS 8 already set a new standard for poor perforce etc, but to have iOS 9 even worse is beyond a joke.

I certainly wish Apple read this forums or was somewhat aware that releasing half baked iOS updates is atrocious - especially when better performance and stability is one of the 4 tent pole features.

 

[C DM]

Did Apple boast about performance increases with iOS 7? No. Did iOS 7 have a limited feature/ change set? No.

iOS 7 on my iPhone 4 is more satisfactory (even at launch) than iOS 9 on my Mini 2. Why? The iPhone 4 doesn't have random lag when app icons are tapped. Also the 4 was on its last software update and featured very outdated hardware. The Mini 2 was sold as the Mini 3 up until recently. I guess that is all relatively besides the point though.

Had Apple not talked about performance increases than this would have still been an issue, but less so. iOS 8 already set a new standard for poor perforce etc, but to have iOS 9 even worse is beyond a joke.

I certainly wish Apple read this forums or was somewhat aware that releasing half baked iOS updates is atrocious - especially when better performance and stability is one of the 4 tent pole features.

They way you are describing it it certainly shouldn't be that way. Going by feedback of many (here, other sites, media, and beyond) it seems some have it that way too, but many do not. That doesn't help much those who are having these issues, but it does show that it's not nearly as bad for many people, many of whom are having an experience that is quite positive with iOS 9. It should be even better perhaps and certainly even less people should be running into issues, but in the overall sense it seems like this wasn't a bad release (again not to those who have some issues, and not that it can't be better).

 

[Novim]

According to this, Apple today announced that app thinning (or app slicing) has been delayed because of an iCloud bug.

My longtime suspicion that iCloud was planned, projected, developed and sustained by some abhorring enemy (a possible Samsung spec. unit based in Infinity Road 1) has just been deepened.

 

[oldmacs]

They way you are describing it it certainly shouldn't be that way. Going by feedback of many, it seems some have it that way too, but many do not. That doesn't help much those who are having these issues, but it does show that it's not nearly as bad for many people, many of whom are having an experience that is quite positive with iOS 9. It should be even better perhaps and certainly even less people should be running into issues, but in the overall sense it seems like this wasn't a bad release (again not to those who have some issues, and not that it can't be better).

Sure a lot of Macrumours users may love iOS 9 - but thats not a great measure of how it is running on people's devices. I'd say some people have a placebo effect, and most people on here seem to defend everything so some wouldn't complain. Perception of speed is very different to what is actually happening and I'd say that perception is what accounts for the differences reported.

I'd love to see examples of where iOS 9 is quantitively faster or on par with iOS 8 on a range of hardware. Its definitely not on the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 when you compare a clean install of iOS 8.4.1 with a clean install of iOS 9 and the same with a clean install followed by a restore from the same backup. I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'd also love to see video comparisons. I'd make one myself if I wasn't away from home without my spare iPad 2.

 

[barjam]

Sure a lot of Macrumours users may love iOS 9 - but thats not a great measure of how it is running on people's devices. I'd say some people have a placebo effect, and most people on here seem to defend everything so some wouldn't complain. Perception of speed is very different to what is actually happening and I'd say that perception is what accounts for the differences reported.

I'd love to see examples of where iOS 9 is quantitively faster or on par with iOS 8 on a range of hardware. Its definitely not on the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 when you compare a clean install of iOS 8.4.1 with a clean install of iOS 9 and the same with a clean install followed by a restore from the same backup. I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'd also love to see video comparisons. I'd make one myself if I wasn't away from home without my spare iPad 2.

I have it installed on iPad Air 2, iPad Air, iPhone 6 (x) and an iPad 3. I felt like it was faster on my Air (the 2) and my iPhone 6. I didn't mention this to my wife and after she installed it she commented on how it felt faster.

Not scientific but I would say there are a good percentage of folks out there that don't have issues.

 

[I7guy]

Its bleeding obvious when instead of a instant animation after tapping an app to open becomes a lag where the app icon turns black and waits before rendering an animation.

Differences in seconds do add up they make every single thing slower.

I'd be willing to say that iOS 9 is definitely slower on A5 devices, and if anyone can do side by side testing (clean install of iOS 8 & 9 + restored from the same backup) and show that iOS 9 is at least as fast as iOS 8 if not better - I'D LOVE to see it.

It's not obvious to me; and it's not obvious because it doesn't happen on MY ipad 2. And I didn't say seconds, you did. I said milliseconds. And to repeat an important point; Safari seems to have had a lot of tweaking...that in and of itself is worth the upgrade.

Sure a lot of Macrumours users may love iOS 9 - but thats not a great measure of how it is running on people's devices. I'd say some people have a placebo effect, and most people on here seem to defend everything so some wouldn't complain. Perception of speed is very different to what is actually happening and I'd say that perception is what accounts for the differences reported.

I'd love to see examples of where iOS 9 is quantitively faster or on par with iOS 8 on a range of hardware. Its definitely not on the iPhone 5 and iPad 2 when you compare a clean install of iOS 8.4.1 with a clean install of iOS 9 and the same with a clean install followed by a restore from the same backup. I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'd also love to see video comparisons. I'd make one myself if I wasn't away from home without my spare iPad 2.

If some people defend everything, do some people complain about everything? And if one does a test on their ipad 2 does it carry forward to another's ipad 2?

 

[aristobrat]

If some people defend everything, do some people complain about everything?

IMO, yes. This debate about newly released software performing slower than the software it replaced has happened for virtually every iOS and OS X .0 release since MacRumors came online back in 2001.

It has two extreme sides. It appears the pejorative term used to describe people who point out that no company appears to have solved this issue is "fanboys".

There doesn't appear to be a commonly used pejorative term for the folks who complain about this cycle repeating.

I'm all for Apple, Microsoft, whomever finding a way to fix this. I just find it interesting that experienced users here are so willing to grab the pitchforks and flaming torches when something that's been happening to some folks forever happens to them for the first time.

I just don't understand how you can have Microsoft release a desktop OS that is faster or on par with its predecessor (Windows 10 vs Windows 8) while adding new features, and developing for countless numbers of hardware configurations, compared to Apple with a limited number of iOS devices.

Google 'Windows 10 slow lag', and you'll find many complaints from Windows 10 owners stating that it stutters/isn't as fluid as the previous version of Windows that it replaced.

If you want more specific incidents, go search a Windows 10 forum, like tenforums.com

 

[newellj]

Problems? - vote with your/our feet: sell or return the Apple device and move on to something else that is less frustrating. It's that easy. By the way, *that* is the only feedback that huge entities like Apple can readily receive, process and react to. The message of missed sales targets is heard loud and clear. Forum complaints, not at all.

 

[C DM]

Problems? - vote with your/our feet: sell or return the Apple device and move on to something else that is less frustrating. It's that easy. By the way, *that* is the only feedback that huge entities like Apple can readily receive, process and react to. The message of missed sales targets is heard loud and clear. Forum complaints, not at all.

Won't make any noticeable impact unless exponentially more users would do it, and for that to happen things would have to be truly horrific across the board, which hasn't been even close to anything like that.

 

[newellj]

Won't make any noticeable impact unless exponentially more users would do it, and for that to happen things would have to be truly horrific across the board, which hasn't been even close to anything like that.

I agree, but the well-reasoned complaints and puerile, whining rants we see here have absolutely no effect on corporate decision-making, either. (I know you know that, but it's worth reiterating the point.)

 

[C DM]

I agree, but the well-reasoned complaints and puerile, whining rants we see here have absolutely no effect on corporate decision-making, either. (I know you know that, but it's worth reiterating the point.)

Right, it's more venting than anything else, which I can certainly understand (and have done myself too).

 

[oldmacs]

If some people defend everything, do some people complain about everything? And if one does a test on their ipad 2 does it carry forward to another's ipad 2?

I have no reason to complain - frankly I'd rather have iOS 9 installed and be enjoying it but when it's as slow as it is that's not really possible. And it's not just my perception that it is slower- I actually properly tested them side by side and low and behold across multiple tests and scenarios it is slower. I'm not saying that you don't perceive it as faster and you yourself said you don't notice app opening time differences.

All 3 iPad 2s I tested on showed pretty mouth identical speeds.

However that does raise the idea that it's entirely possible that your iOS 8 install was so bad that iOS 9 was an improvement.

It's not obvious to me; and it's not obvious because it doesn't happen on MY ipad 2. And I didn't say seconds, you did. I said milliseconds. And to repeat an important point; Safari seems to have had a lot of tweaking...that in and of itself is worth the upgrade.

Unless someone can show me an iPad 2 that runs a clean install of iOS 9 better or the same as a clean install of iOS 8 or an install of iOS 8 and iOS 9 with the same backup where iOS 9 is faster or the same I'd have to chalk your experiences down to perception or placebo. Safari may be a little faster from some performance enhancements but that doesn't really compensate for every app taking longer to load. The difference is in seconds in some cAses.