Are yearly M-series refreshes a success?

[Gudi]

Thinner is better was [Jony Ive's] only mantra.

And he was right about that. What sucks most about modern Apple design is that it's not nearly thin and light enough.

 

[leman]

In that sense, computers don't really go obsolete anymore, and they haven't done so in a long time. If you bought a half-decent computer in 2010 (and not just something that was barely good enough for your needs), it probably remained useful until the hardware started failing or the vendor stopped providing security updates.

Windows 11 does not support Intel Skylake for example (probably because of the bugs that have to be worked around in the kernel). So yeah, computers do go obsolete.

Performance-wise, a Skylake can still be adequate for many users, sure. But then it becomes the question of resource balancing. Do you dedicate resources to provide new features and functionality or to support older hardware? The second choose rarely makes sense economically.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

And he was right about that. What sucks most about modern Apple design is that it's not nearly thin and light enough.

Ahhhh NO. They are reversing the terrible design of no mojo jony...

 

[JouniS]

Windows 11 does not support Intel Skylake for example (probably because of the bugs that have to be worked around in the kernel). So yeah, computers do go obsolete.

That's the "vendor stops providing security updates" part. Windows 10 remains perfectly fine for situations where you want to use Windows, and there is no real reason for most people to upgrade to Windows 11. Skylake PCs remain useful until October 14, 2025, when Microsoft deliberately makes them obsolete.

Or maybe longer, if people call Microsoft's bluff and continue using Windows 10 past the expiration date, as they continued using Windows XP. Because Microsoft has to deal with the low end of the market, they are not always in control. If a significant fraction of real-world Windows usage is old unsupported versions, they may have to continue supporting them longer than they had planned.

 

[jlc1978]

If a significant fraction of real-world Windows usage is old unsupported versions, they may have to continue supporting them longer than they had planned.

If major corporations or government agencies do MS may, end users not so much.

 

[AustinIllini]

Apple's target audience isn't "people who pay attention to the M number of their chips" it's "people who need to buy a new Mac"

It's going great

 

[The point and shoot pro]

That's the "vendor stops providing security updates" part. Windows 10 remains perfectly fine for situations where you want to use Windows, and there is no real reason for most people to upgrade to Windows 11. Skylake PCs remain useful until October 14, 2025, when Microsoft deliberately makes them obsolete.

Or maybe longer, if people call Microsoft's bluff and continue using Windows 10 past the expiration date, as they continued using Windows XP. Because Microsoft has to deal with the low end of the market, they are not always in control. If a significant fraction of real-world Windows usage is old unsupported versions, they may have to continue supporting them longer than they had planned.

the last thing is what's going to happen. Microsoft is going to have to support longer than their "vision" is wanting them to. It happened back when they released another OS as well, can't remember what one. They stated this is the end date....then, kept pushing it forward, if I recall, an extra 2 years. I would have to dive deep into my memory banks to remember the exact circumstances, but that was the gist of it.

 

[dmccloud]

the last thing is what's going to happen. Microsoft is going to have to support longer than their "vision" is wanting them to. It happened back when they released another OS as well, can't remember what one. They stated this is the end date....then, kept pushing it forward, if I recall, an extra 2 years. I would have to dive deep into my memory banks to remember the exact circumstances, but that was the gist of it.

Microsoft had to extend both XP and Vista's support window, the latter primarily because the W8 interface was a joke on its best days...

 

[The point and shoot pro]

It was windows 7, not vista. Vista came before 7. But it's not uncommon for Microsoft to backpedal.....most everything they say actually. Besides stuff that matters. i.e. Hololens. They had the vision Pro already, and just squandered that opportunity.

 

[nquinn]

How much are you willing to pay for it? Because I certainly am in no mood to pay extra so that you can enjoy your obsolete hardware longer.

10 years feels like a pretty fair timeframe to me for most hardware. M1 stuff will last a LONG time. My old 2011 macbook pro worked pretty well with an SSD upgrade for quite a while - it just ran really hot. I'd say it probably got 6-7 good years out of it and that was with a super hot running 2 core intel chip.

Unless OS's get stupid bloated an M1 should be usable for 10 years easy. Batteries are a bigger problem for macbooks. Prob $200+ replacement costs.

 

[nquinn]

A "reasonable update cycle" for a Computer or Laptop would be closer to something like every 4-5+ years. For a Phone that would be more like every year to 3 years.. But, just because chips and computers are updated every year, doesn't mean you need to buy a new one every year. Someone else's 4-5 year cycle is not going to be the same as yours. Over the last 20+ or so years, I've gone every 5 years. Most people seem to go a little longer than that, while some luckier folks tend to buy new computers every 3-4 years. Not many, though.

4-5 is way too short for modern hardware. I'd love to see 10, but something like 7-8 is probably a reasonable compromise.

 

[gank41]

4-5 is way too short for modern hardware. I'd love to see 10, but something like 7-8 is probably a reasonable compromise.

I would agree, for an average of the masses. I tend to like having “newer” equipment, and that’s still a 5 year cycle.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[darngooddesign]

...You really have to give Mac owners a good reason to upgrade. M1 was that and more.

But Apple got too zealous thinking M2 was good enough. But M2 underdelivered.

I think Apple's reaction will be to add even more time between each chip generation, to make sure the "hunger" for new Macs is even bigger and that they can deliver bigger improvements over the previous generation.

Yeah I don't think Apple expected M1 owners to upgrade, the M2 was for people who were still on Intels. We are on an 18-24mo chip upgrade cycle which is probably fine with Apple.

 

[Gudi]

Apple should let the user decide when to stop using their computers, not apple decide for them. If I buy a new M2 MBP, If I want to use it for 10 years with full OS updates I should be able to. My 2007 acer is on current windows 10, (yes I know MS changed their coding for 11 but windows 10 is still getting full updates at this present time), I should be able to do the same thing on my Mac.

Only because Apple stops OS updates after seven years doesn't mean the machine becomes unusable or even insecure. With TouchID, Secure Enclave and FileVault the Mac is pretty safe even without additional security updates. Three things limit the lifetime of a Mac: (1) physical wear and tear, (2) ongoing innovations and new features, but most importantly Moore's Law, (3) the forever ongoing doubling of processing power every two years. After 10 years new computers are 2⁵ = 32× times faster. It's not missing software updates which make old computers obsolete!

 

[MrGunny94]

The improvements have been really good despite almost being yearly. My problem lies in the 'gatekeeping' for certain things for specific models.

For example want native support of 2 external displays? Got to go up to the M2 Pro
Need more than 16GB of RAM? Head for the M2 for 24GB or M2 Pro for more
Slower SSD is a problem for you on the M2? Go up to the M2 Pro

These are really the only issues I currently see.. Still hoping M3 supports dual external display and I might just go for the M3 Air with 24GB of RAM.

 

[Jorbanead]

The switch was meant to result in cheaper Macs but they’ve actually got more expensive.

That was never what the switch was meant for. That’s only what a few uninformed people proposed and that idea spread.

And he was right about that. What sucks most about modern Apple design is that it's not nearly thin and light enough.

Point to me exactly which products are not thin and light enough?

 

[bcortens]

The improvements have been really good despite almost being yearly. My problem lies in the 'gatekeeping' for certain things for specific models.

For example want native support of 2 external displays? Got to go up to the M2 Pro
Need more than 16GB of RAM? Head for the M2 for 24GB or M2 Pro for more
Slower SSD is a problem for you on the M2? Go up to the M2 Pro

These are really the only issues I currently see.. Still hoping M3 supports dual external display and I might just go for the M3 Air with 24GB of RAM.

This isn’t really gatekeeping, gatekeeping would be if the hardware existed in the silicon but was artificially locked out.

This is just the way they chose to build the chips. The display outputs just do no exist on the silicon which is why you cannot run 2 external displays on M1/2, I suspect this is both a legacy of the iPad heritage of the M1/2 and also because most people who bought the Mac mini, MacBook Air, and iMac never plugged in more than 1 display…

 

[Gudi]

Point to me exactly which products are not thin and light enough?

iPhones and MacBooks. The iPads are alright. Mac mini and Mac Pro are also too bulky.

 

[Jorbanead]

iPhones and MacBooks. The iPads are alright. Mac mini and Mac Pro are also too bulky.

of course all of this is subjective but:

1) iPhone - for YEARS people complained about iPhones being too thin. Bendgate was a huge issue.

2) The MacBook Air is the thinnest it has ever been. The 16” Pro is only 0.02” thicker than the intel.

3) Mac mini could certainly be smaller

4) Mac Pro needs to be that large for all the PCIe slots. If you get rid of those slots you just have a Mac Studio.

People complained about apples obsession with thin and light for years. Many people now are very happy Apple is prioritizing performance and battery over thinness. You seem to be in the minority on this one.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

of course all of this is subjective but:

1) iPhone - for YEARS people complained about iPhones being too thin. Bendgate was a huge issue.

2) The MacBook Air is the thinnest it has ever been. The 16” Pro is only 0.02” thicker than the intel.

3) Mac mini could certainly be smaller

4) Mac Pro needs to be that large for all the PCIe slots. If you get rid of those slots you just have a Mac Studio.

People complained about apples obsession with thin and light for years. Many people now are very happy Apple is prioritizing performance and battery over thinness. You seem to be in the minority on this one.

I don't think the mini is to large at all. I agree that apple needs to reverse the smallest lightest iBlahblahblah ever johnny ive mantra. He ran out of ideas after the first air. Just kept making them thinner and lighter at the expensive of performance and useability. Same goes with the phone and ipad. both would bend just by looking at them, but they were the "thinnest, lightest," ever (in my best pretentious jonny ive voice).

 

[Jorbanead]

I don't think the mini is to large at all.

Have you seen inside one? About 1/3 of it is empty space.

 

[Gudi]

People complained about apples obsession with thin and light for years. Many people now are very happy Apple is prioritizing performance and battery over thinness. You seem to be in the minority on this one.

1) Bendgate was not a huge issue in the real world.

2) Only a quarter of the energy consumption and the damn thing is getting heavier and heavier.

16" MacBook Pro (2019): 2.0kg (Intel i7)
16" MacBook Pro (2021): 2.1kg (M1 Pro)
16" MacBook Pro (2023): 2.15kg (M2 Pro)

3+4) They simply forgot to redesign the Mini and the Pro, but the laptops are all new and heavier.

5) Idiots complained about Apple making light laptops.

 

[bcortens]

1) Bendgate was not a huge issue in the real world.

2) Only a quarter of the energy consumption and the damn thing is getting heavier and heavier.

16" MacBook Pro (2019): 2.0kg (Intel i7)
16" MacBook Pro (2021): 2.1kg (M1 Pro)
16" MacBook Pro (2023): 2.15kg (M2 Pro)

3+4) They simply forgot to redesign the Mini and the Pro, but the laptops are all new and heavier.

5) Idiots complained about Apple making light laptops.

Disagree with the assertion that bendgate isn’t a real issue - my iPad Pro has a slight but noticeable bend in the middle.

 

[Gudi]

Disagree with the assertion that bendgate isn’t a real issue - my iPad Pro has a slight but noticeable bend in the middle.

Did you sleep on it? I wouldn’t recommend to put your whole body weight on any kind of tech.

 

[Basic75]

The forever ongoing doubling of processing power every two years. After 10 years new computers are 2⁵ = 32× times faster.

Those days are gone.