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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296

Except for CSGO which is like a decade old game that runs on a potato, M1 can't run or has poor frame rates on other games like Overwatch, Skyrim, Forza Horizon 4, GTA5, Doom Eternal and Cyberpunk. For modern games 5800U has very playable frame rates but if all you play is decades old games then you can get by with M1.

https://applesilicongames.com/

 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,629
So, I don't breach any contract about usage running a Hackintosh with Big Sur? Fully supported by Apple? Apple care and all the bells and whistles? Where do I buy a pre installed "Hackintosh" laptop/desktop?
You do. Some small companies below notice may do this and some large companies may do this on a small scale. They’re smart enough limit the use to non-integrated activities like exporting and such to limit the risk of fouling up their content.

As an individual it could be fun for some that enjoy the excitement of having to keep four plates spinning on top of a Humvee going off-road. I imagine it’d be a good subject for a YouTube video that gets lots of clicks, too. But, for actually running a mission critical part of business, no one is doing this :)
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,629
Why the hell someone would come to macrumors and just open a thread saying "Windows laptops are better. Prove me wrong!"
Because people like to troll! The responses, especially the lengthy ones, really make their day :))And, gotta admit, the thread has gotten a decent number of eyeballs, so mission accomplished?

It doesn’t even matter if the poster actually feels that way or not. (And probably more entertaining for them if they don’t :)) And, it certainly doesn’t matter if the view presented is rife with falsehoods or half truths. The same post in a more reasoned and thoughtful tone simply wouldn’t provide the OP with the level of responses required!
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,629
their loyal 1990 customers are buying and loving PC laptops.
This is undoubtedly true. Fortunately for Apple, for every customer they’ve lost to PC laptops, they more than obtained new ones that like what they’re selling. Half of macOS system buyers every year are new to the platform, so that’s a NEW 9 million or so every year. When you consider that Mac sales way back then were in the single digit millions per year, that shows why it appears that Apple’s no longer making systems THAT group prefers.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,679
I doubt it will compare in real world scenarios. (Mx laptop to intel type desktop. Cooling is always going to be a problem in a laptop) I'm more interested in the desktop to desktop comparison anyway.

That doesn’t matter. Dint forget that 5 watts on Firestorm core is the same as 25-30watts on an Intel Rocket Lake core. An 8-core Apple variant will outperform a 10-core i9 while only consuming 40 watts or less... easily manageable in a laptop.
 
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KENPHOTO

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2012
154
447
What is SO great about the M1 macs?
They offer less than Windows counterparts. No real gaming support, no support for other OS natively, no touch and VERY VERY limited app compatibly. Sure its faster than i7 11th gen but AMD processors offer greater performance and around the same battery life as the M1.

The AMD Ryzen 7 4800U offers faster performance than an M1 Air/Pro and there are laptops that have that processor that are cheaper than the M1 Air with upgradable SSD and RAM.

Now with the SSD swap issue that Apple is quiet on is very serious IMO. I have an intel 16" MBP and I have written about 7TBW and I got this machine around January 2020 and I use this laptop very heavily everyday. The fact that I see people writing over 15TBW on their M1 macs that they got 5-6 months ago is very concerning.

All I am saying is look beyond the M1 hype and see that you are getting a computer with less features, no upgradeability and limited third party software. I say this because I see some people say the M1 Air is the best deal for an Ultrabook, I strongly disagree with that claim.
The reason the M1 macs seem so good is because the previous Macs were utter garbage in terms of specs and price to performance ratio.
Ever wonder why Rosseta 2 runs Intel software better on M1 macs than on intel macs is because those intel's that Apple replaced were not at all performant.
The M1 Air had a quad core i7 a weak one at that, the M1 Pro had a 8th gen i5/i7.

For $920 on the Windows side you can get a HP ENVY x360 with a FHD screen(1080p), Ryzen 7 4700U, 16GB RAM, a 256GB SSD(user upgradable) and a 1000 NITS display with touch. Click here to see HP Envy configure page. Yes it comes with Windows but Windows can do a LOT more than macOS can ever can.
The argument that macOS is better than Windows is no longer true as Windows vastly outperforms macOS in almost everyway. It's now even more obvious with the M1 macs.

I know I can't tell people what to buy or not, but people have been making extraordinary claims on YouTube, twitter and other social media
forums that M1 macs is the future and outperform most laptops and are the best value out there and I just wanted to clarify some points.
I don't get into benchmark tests, etc. All I can say is I am an app developer and use Xcode heavily about 18 hours per day, 7 days per week. What I can tell you is my 2020 16" MacBook Pro with i9 and 32GB ram used to get so hot trying to use it in my lap even in a case that I had to worry it was going to burn my testicles off. I bought both the M1 MacBook Air and the M1 MacBook Pro, both with 8GB ram and both machines stay super cool and run Xcode faster than my intel MacBook Pro that cost 3 times what the m1 MacBook Pro cost me. In fact, not only Xcode but pretty much every app I use, including Final Cut Pro is overall faster than my intel MacBook Pro. I have even ordered a M1 Mac mini as well now. In my opinion, the M1 Macs are in fact as good as all the hype about them.
 

madonnaragu

macrumors regular
Feb 13, 2021
125
35
Some valid points by the OP. For me, the fact that the M1 has no fans was what made me switch from Windows after all these years. Tired of fans ramping up while browsing the internet.

Yes, there's no real gaming support. But some Steam games are Mac compatible.

I've looked at Portingkit which is supposed to let you run Windows games, but I couldn't get it to work.
 

KENPHOTO

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2012
154
447
I'm new to MacOS, only been using it since November 2020, but why did Apple switch to Intel in the first place? There was the PowerPC/Risc processor, and then the strange switch to Intel, and now back to an Apple architecture again.
Seems strange. Intel is great on Desktops, I don't argue on that, but it just seems like a really odd move, back in the days.
They switched from Power PC to Intel for the same reason they have now switched from Intel to Apple Silicon, Power PC (and now Intel) could not keep up with Apple in terms of what Apple wanted to offer in its machines, especially with Intel in the constant delays they would and still have with new chips. Now Apple never has to worry about that again wit h using their own silicon chips.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
The M1 is Apple's i3/Celeron bottom of the line processor.
Why doesn't anyone talk about this more? People that complain about the M1 forget this fact. Wait until the 16" MacBook Pro and 27" iMac and yes eventually the fully maxed out Mac Pro tower get updated with M* processor. Then lets talk about lack of multi-cores and other things.

The M1 is the LOWEST of the LOW END processor. And yes, it trades blows with the i9. Just imagine when the fully maxed out Mac Pro gets updated how it handles.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296
Tired of fans ramping up while browsing the internet.

That's an Intel feature. On my AMD 4650U set for 15W TDP the fan doesn't come on for browsing or every day workload. It only comes on under full load running a benchmark.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Why doesn't anyone talk about this more? People that complain about the M1 forget this fact. Wait until the 16" MacBook Pro and 27" iMac and yes eventually the fully maxed out Mac Pro tower get updated with M* processor. Then lets talk about lack of multi-cores and other things.

The M1 is the LOWEST of the LOW END processor. And yes, it trades blows with the i9. Just imagine when the fully maxed out Mac Pro gets updated how it handles.
100% I see this so often. People comparing the M1 machines to i9 computers and ask why Apple took away ports and ram options etc. even though they didnt take anything away. The air and baseline 13” pro has always had 2 ports, and 16gb ram max. The M1 is literally going to be the absolute worst Mac chip they ever make and is literally at the bottom of the chain.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296
The M1 is the LOWEST of the LOW END processor.

Not by cost. It was more than double the cost of my Lenovo Yoga 6 which has advantages of touch screen, pen input, more ports, retaining full x64 compatibility, etc. With everyone dumping the M1 on used market even if I take a big loss on selling it I can probably find a new Thinkpad with AMD 5800U for the same money.
 

MLM

macrumors member
Mar 23, 2006
42
17
Denmark
Life with the M1 Mac mini so far:

  • Regular kernel panics
  • Ongoing monitor support issues
  • Disabled wifi to be able to use bluetooth
  • Apple support is ignoring me
But if you had an Apple monitor and only used it for light safari browsing, you might be ok.
 
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Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Not by cost. It was more than double the cost of my Lenovo Yoga 6 which has advantages of touch screen, pen input, more ports, retaining full x64 compatibility, etc. With everyone dumping the M1 on used market even if I take a big loss on selling it I can probably find a new Thinkpad with AMD 5800U for the same money.

M1 is the lowest of the low for apples Mac chips. That’s what we mean. Performance-wise it can compete with higher-level chips, but as far as the apple silicon Mac totem pole it sits right at the bottom. ThTvwas their point. And if you want to discuss price take a look at the full thread as we have already shown that M1 feature for feature is comparable to windows. I can’t find a Windows counterpart to M1 that comes with all of the features an M1 Mac has. They don’t exist.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
This is undoubtedly true. Fortunately for Apple, for every customer they’ve lost to PC laptops, they more than obtained new ones that like what they’re selling. Half of macOS system buyers every year are new to the platform, so that’s a NEW 9 million or so every year. When you consider that Mac sales way back then were in the single digit millions per year, that shows why it appears that Apple’s no longer making systems THAT group prefers.
yes, i realized this after 2012 when mavericks was launched and the down fall continued since then.
i'm very surprised i am one of those lovers who switched for good this year.
just recently i even deleted the  bookmark icon from Edge t which took over safari in my MacBook air.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
That doesn’t matter. Dint forget that 5 watts on Firestorm core is the same as 25-30watts on an Intel Rocket Lake core. An 8-core Apple variant will outperform a 10-core i9 while only consuming 40 watts or less... easily manageable in a laptop.
Still doubt it. I know 40w laptops can have heat problems, and heat is heat. We wont know their makeup until we see it. High end (and my workstation I told you about is only medium end) workstations can have a LOT of cooling --in other words, heat isn't a problem there, so those big multcore processors are *fast*.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296
M1 is the lowest of the low for apples Mac chips. That’s what we mean. Performance-wise it can compete with higher-level chips, but as far as the apple silicon Mac totem pole it sits right at the bottom. ThTvwas their point. And if you want to discuss price take a look at the full thread as we have already shown that M1 feature for feature is comparable to windows. I can’t find a Windows counterpart to M1 that comes with all of the features an M1 Mac has. They don’t exist.

M1 is already on smallest 5nm node so only room for improvement in mobile is via IPC. For comparison, AMD is already ahead in performance plus x64 compatibility on 7nm so their headroom for improvement with shrink to 5nm and year-over-year ~15% IPC improvement is larger. For desktop, M1 has more TDP headroom for higher clocks and/or more cores but doubtful there's a market for high priced x64-incompatible M1 desktops where AMD is dominating the whole stack with Ryzen for desktop, Threadripper for workstation and Epyc for supercomputing. Perhaps that's why Apple chose to target the low end desktop with $699 Mac Mini M1.

M1 vs AMD desktop
1617922936796.png


M1 vs AMD workstation
1617923046241.png
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Still doubt it. I know 40w laptops can have heat problems, and heat is heat. We wont know their makeup until we see it. High end (and my workstation I told you about is only medium end) workstations can have a LOT of cooling --in other words, heat isn't a problem there, so those big multcore processors are *fast*.
It's likely that more ASi desktops are coming soon.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
M1 is already on smallest 5nm node so only room for improvement in mobile is via IPC. For comparison, AMD is already ahead in performance plus x64 compatibility on 7nm so their headroom for improvement with shrink to 5nm and year-over-year ~15% IPC improvement is larger. For desktop, M1 has more TDP headroom for higher clocks and/or more cores but doubtful there's a market for high priced x64-incompatible M1 desktops where AMD is dominating the whole stack with Ryzen for desktop, Threadripper for workstation and Epyc for supercomputing. Perhaps that's why Apple chose to target the low end desktop with $699 Mac Mini M1.
Not sure that is true. The only place I've seen the Ryzen 5800U beat out the M1 is in Cinebench. A benchmark that had its core written by Intel and is highly optimized for x86. Not to mention the 5800U has twice the high-performance cores of an M1. Even then, the 5800U loses out on single core tests. As long as an ASi SoC has the memory bandwidth and wins on single core performance, I don't see how Apple is going to lose on mobile performance when it comes to future 5nm SoCs.
 

Kung gu

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 20, 2018
1,379
2,434
Apple haters are so desperate that they are comparing Apple's entry level M1 chips against the Ryzen. LOL
I am not a apple hater lol. I use an iPhone and iPad but finds macOS, macbooks and imacs to be crap compared to high end PCs and laptops.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
M1 is already on smallest 5nm node so only room for improvement in mobile is via IPC. For comparison, AMD is already ahead in performance plus x64 compatibility on 7nm so their headroom for improvement with shrink to 5nm and year-over-year ~15% IPC improvement is larger. For desktop, M1 has more TDP headroom for higher clocks and/or more cores but doubtful there's a market for high priced x64-incompatible M1 desktops where AMD is dominating the whole stack with Ryzen for desktop, Threadripper for workstation and Epyc for supercomputing. Perhaps that's why Apple chose to target the low end desktop with $699 Mac Mini M1.

M1 vs AMD desktop
View attachment 1755465

M1 vs AMD workstation
View attachment 1755466
Why are you comparing M1 to a 5950x or a Threadripper? The M1 is replacing Intel i3 and i5 chips. It’s not supposed to compete with a 100W+ chip, let alone a threadripper? it’s literally a 10W mobile (laptop) chip. AMD is not ahead on performance per watt which is the important part. Only the AMD top-end chips surpass single thread speeds and they are not mobile 10W chips. They are heavy duty chips that require fans and cooling systems with plenty of power. It’s like comparing apples to kangaroos.
 

AdamNC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 3, 2018
751
1,052
Leland NC
Take a look at the attached pic below. This is what I configured.
View attachment 1755165
It's also about durability..... I switched to Windows in 2012 after being a Mac Person my whole life. From 1985-2012. I owned each Machine roughly 5-7 years. Try getting a Windows laptop to last that long. In the 9 years I was with Windows I had 3 HP's die in a year or less, And my 2000 dollar Dell XPS died after 2.5 years. Macs are reliable, durable, and worth every penny.
 
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