^^ I have really no idea what the point of your replies are now.
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Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!
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To show that I am not anti-Apple, I am just heading off to the Apple store to buy a new MBP. Not with 8GB RAM, though.
I might need help with the battery when I get back. I hear battery anxiety is a new thing. Should I not let it drop below 20%, never charge it above 80%, and then discharge it thoroughly after the nth cycle? I may just risk and just plug it in whenever it needs to be charged!
I might need help with the battery when I get back. I hear battery anxiety is a new thing. Should I not let it drop below 20%, never charge it above 80%, and then discharge it thoroughly after the nth cycle? I may just risk and just plug it in whenever it needs to be charged!
The first thing to say is that I respect your opinions in as far as they clearly reflect how Apple and its products and policies impact on you. Nobody, however much they disagree, can refute what are your views and experiences just because their own aren’t the same.
As such, much of what you’ve written in this thread are thoughts with which I can agree, or have sympathy with. As an Apple owner/user since 1986, and there not being a single moment during those 38 years when I didn’t own a Mac, let alone other products of theirs, I can only say that I’d have to be blind to a whole raft of realities not to find a whole lot of things to be disappointing and not be frustrated about in how they do business, the corporate secrecy, and their seeming ability to totally ignore common sense and reasonability.
But it is a company I know quite well, and from their perspective, the decisions they make do in fact make far more sense, even as I wish they were tempered with somewhat less of the superficial appearance of profiteering. They could do with humility far more than they could do with another Steve Jobs.
All that said, to your points: The real world use of this stuff is ALWAYS different, and more realistic than reviews - whether of the old-time print or new fangled YouTube variety. Even when reviewers don’t bring intended/unintended bias to the job, they do bring expectations, and these heavily colour the results. Where YouTube does even less of an even-handed job as a platform is in encouraging reviewers to entice clicks and likes for monetization. What you get is a selling job, and it isn’t the product being reviewed, but the review itself.
This is how you get such blatantly opposing views as between the guy who creates a failing outcome for an 8Gb MBA by deliberately overloading it, yet not actually ever saying that this machine was never designed to do this level of work, and the one for whom an M3 8Gb machine in his common workflow simply keeps coping perfectly well, in comparison to a M3 plus 16Gb.
They’re talking about the exact same thing, but drawing 180-degree opposite conclusions. Somebody isn’t doing the consumer (of the video, OR the product) justice, and it isn’t the guy reporting on the experiences of using the system with his workflow.
What these things do more than anything is perpetuate myths. In this case the myth that 8Gb isn’t enough, which ends up being endlessly repeated, almost always by those who don’t actually KNOW, but feel certain they can surmise. Often experience with Windows is the basis for this, despite the fact that Windows and macOS have totally different footprints and utilization curves. AND, just as importantly, that Windows doesn’t actually exist in the same context as macOS.
This latter is crucial. I have said this before and it’s easy to ignore, but since Apple make the OS and also the hardware it runs on, not only do they exercise far more stringent control on the development and deployment of both, but they actually have a responsibility (and in some places a legal duty) to do so. It’s easy to talk about how demand on RAM always increases and that an 8Gb system is therefore going to choke up at some point, but actually this isn’t really true.
Even in the case of Windows 11, the minimum system requirement is still pegged at 4Gb - and that is in itself workable. At 4Gb you have to be careful to debloat, including default services, but it actually works reasonably well. On the macOS side, Sonoma also requires 4Gb, since it can’t really scale below that. What tends to happen with macOS is that it doesn’t so much depend on RAM for viability, but system performance (meaning processor and data throughput speeds). This is because unlike Windows, since macOS is scalable to the system’s resources, it depends on being able to move parts of itself in and out of RAM as needed.
On that basis, there’s actually no reason that 8Gb would necessarily ever be insufficient, and if we assume that there are maybe a million 8Gb systems out there in use (not even a guess, just a number for argument’s sake) then Apple have a million reasons to keep macOS sufficiently modular in function that it doesn’t overwhelm these systems.
Will they do it that way? No, I suspect not, but they don’t have much option for a few years whether they like it or not. The idea that ‘in a year or two it will be crippled doing the same tasks as now’ is actually not even slightly true. I’ve watched RAM demand on my M1 over a few iterations of macOS now, and it hasn’t actually changed at all, even as Sonoma has turned into a bin fire of over-complexity.
Not only that, but Apple’s history has been to iterate in a cycle which includes a ‘cleanup’ version of macOS when it’s getting out of hand - think Leopard and the Snow Leopard which followed.
Added to that, and a personal gripe of mine admittedly, is this notion that when you buy a computer today, it entitles you to new stuff forever in the future, which is just plain unrealistic, and has never actually happened. My M3 MBA came with Sonoma, and even in 20 years it will still run Sonoma perfectly well… assuming it still works, obviously. Apple typically will give me an expectation that I’ll get 4 or 5 more versions of macOS if I want them, but I don’t have a right to demand them. If macOS 17 or 18 or 19 won’t run well on it, it neither prevents it still running whichever version it and I was happy with before, or me trading it back for about half what I paid, and replacing it.
By that point, the cost of ownership is going to be so low that it doesn’t really matter, and since Apple (and many others too these days) recycle old systems or trade them on, it’s not the environmental disaster that many argue.
As to Apple’s Air vs Pro pricing and spec… it seems a bit bonkers to me that they start the Pro at 8Gb, but I see that as evidence they truly believe 8Gb works for most people, and that ‘Pro’ isn’t about memory but about function. That we get fixated on memory doesn’t make this the important factor, just the one that we talk about.
I totally understand why Apple don’t offer user-upgradable RAM and SSD, and that’s fine. I don’t like the pricing differentials, but I understand why they are what they are, and that’s fine too because I rather think the consumer has a responsibility for their own choices and the context in which they are made. Where I do think Apple get it wrong is in user interface design where they have thrown much of their own guidelines out of the window, and in the process abandoned those with minority needs (those, like me for example, with poor motor control, who have incredible difficulties with functional control by gestures which can be very hard for us to get right), in their abandonment of ‘pro’ users, and largely the education market too, where they caved to ChromeBooks even though they could have readily produced a base-level laptop to integrate with core curriculum delivery services, and their fixation on narrow design criteria which still hasn’t escaped the Ive-era minimalistic ‘this is all you need’ metaphors.
Other things too, but like many things, just my view.
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Every modern OS is is scalable to the system’s resources and has a swap process. That is nowhere a speciality of macOS.
Can you expound on why you don't think Windows is not scalable? Windows will in fact use a much or as little system resources as needed, i.e., scalable.
The primary difference is that Windows uses kernel mode to load up the hardware abstraction layer (HAL) and everything hooked into it, along with the executive, which are the core services and resources needed to run the system. This isn't dynamically scalable, since the RAM it takes is dependent on the installed system, not what it is actually doing.
What is dynamically scalable are the user mode functions and DLLs which the kernel calls and which are generally loaded and unloaded as needed. But it does mean that a large part of the Windows overhead it the result of the total installed system, as managed by the kernel.
In macOS the kernel has no system-wide function, so while it isn't scalable either, absent the need for HAL or a controlling executive, is principally used to call up and then discard user mode needs and KEXTs as and when required.
There was a document I was going to refer to in which it was explained how macOS caches dormant code to offload it from RAM but retain it for fast recovery, but I can't find it. Instead, though somewhat dated, https://developer.apple.com/library...nelProgramming/Architecture/Architecture.html makes interesting reading.
On edit: and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architecture_of_Windows_NT is a good briefing on how Windows functions.
Eh, in the real world? My M1 Macbook Pro has always felt decently fast except when I am first opening an app (with 16GB RAM), and my Acer Predator Helios Neo 16" with an i7-13700HX, 32GB RAM, and 2TB SSD has also felt very fast at all times. Of course one of these takes like 10x the power to do so.
I am not sure that hardware is the limiting factor in either case as my SP9 with an i5 and 8GB RAM only now and again pauses or stutters. It isn't like a couple of decades ago where a processor upgrade (and associated RAM and HDD) made a massive difference.
I am not sure that hardware is the limiting factor in either case as my SP9 with an i5 and 8GB RAM only now and again pauses or stutters. It isn't like a couple of decades ago where a processor upgrade (and associated RAM and HDD) made a massive difference.
My wife is fine with 8gb memory as she uses an iPad mostly but likes the MBA for certain tasks. My college graduate daughter is fine with 8gb memory as she uses her phone mostly (I sure don't know why though). So here is two machines that saved $400 in ram upgrades and the users don't have a clue "it's not enough".
I have been a video editor since the early 1990's, started on pc's with PremPro 5, on really expensive pc's that you would only use for online editing, that is ingest the media for actually cutting, and producing...Fast forward until the mid 2000's along comes macs and final cut studio 2/3, life was great, but 32bit... This had a hard cap of 2GB RAM for processing, so with video there is a lot of rendering...
You see there is a bit bit of a problem, we have cameras that shoot in a camera friendly format, AVC Intra 50, this is a codec that is not available for timelines, so there is a conversion that takes place, this consumes resources, to convert and playback without rendering is not easy..
Having 8GB of RAM, life is somewhat difficult, having more than 8GB, I would love to know, I have a 2020 M1 Macbook Air, no question, I would have paid Apple to upgrade the RAM, the SSD, maybe even a better internal layout...
The way I see it, my view, if I could run Apple for a day, this is what I would do, I would have 3 products for the Mac laptops..
1: Macbook in plastic, for kids, very robust, sturdy/
2: Air for on the go, journalists, researchers, Uni/College notes, basic light graphics/video editing
3: Pro, the ability to upgrade, change internals, so that it is more focused on a certain task, maybe allow for some sort of new and improved Express 3/4 system, in audio we are now starting to use a system called Dante/Dante AV, digital audio networking through ethernet..
The idea is that the Pro has access to a vast range of 3rd party products that pay a fee to Apple, that really make the mac an attractive tool for the creative space Lumpo is always talking about...
Apple should be looking forward, as I am sure they are, in some cases the use of dongles is acceptable, what is not acceptable is Apple prescribing the same solution for every use case of the the product, what is so sad is seeing all the old adverts for Apple.. How innovative Apple was, firewire, Final Cut Pro, Color, Logic...
8GB is fine for keynote/pages, it is not for any sort of professional audio production/post production of video...
For me the "upsell" that convinced me to buy my first mac was seeing the Apple Advert, showing how the BBC in the UK used Final Cut Pro and how using Mac Pro and MacBook Pro, how the editor was sitting at a train station, waiting, editing on the laptop, then going to the office, and that was now available on the desktop, ok, the 32bit OS a problem...
64Bit is not the problem, but now a philosophy/ideology that BTO is better than post purchase upgrading... How is the former better than the latter? The SOC if used as the reason, then that is the a simple case of a re-design..?
How is BTO better?
You see there is a bit bit of a problem, we have cameras that shoot in a camera friendly format, AVC Intra 50, this is a codec that is not available for timelines, so there is a conversion that takes place, this consumes resources, to convert and playback without rendering is not easy..
Having 8GB of RAM, life is somewhat difficult, having more than 8GB, I would love to know, I have a 2020 M1 Macbook Air, no question, I would have paid Apple to upgrade the RAM, the SSD, maybe even a better internal layout...
The way I see it, my view, if I could run Apple for a day, this is what I would do, I would have 3 products for the Mac laptops..
1: Macbook in plastic, for kids, very robust, sturdy/
2: Air for on the go, journalists, researchers, Uni/College notes, basic light graphics/video editing
3: Pro, the ability to upgrade, change internals, so that it is more focused on a certain task, maybe allow for some sort of new and improved Express 3/4 system, in audio we are now starting to use a system called Dante/Dante AV, digital audio networking through ethernet..
The idea is that the Pro has access to a vast range of 3rd party products that pay a fee to Apple, that really make the mac an attractive tool for the creative space Lumpo is always talking about...
Apple should be looking forward, as I am sure they are, in some cases the use of dongles is acceptable, what is not acceptable is Apple prescribing the same solution for every use case of the the product, what is so sad is seeing all the old adverts for Apple.. How innovative Apple was, firewire, Final Cut Pro, Color, Logic...
8GB is fine for keynote/pages, it is not for any sort of professional audio production/post production of video...
For me the "upsell" that convinced me to buy my first mac was seeing the Apple Advert, showing how the BBC in the UK used Final Cut Pro and how using Mac Pro and MacBook Pro, how the editor was sitting at a train station, waiting, editing on the laptop, then going to the office, and that was now available on the desktop, ok, the 32bit OS a problem...
64Bit is not the problem, but now a philosophy/ideology that BTO is better than post purchase upgrading... How is the former better than the latter? The SOC if used as the reason, then that is the a simple case of a re-design..?
How is BTO better?
That is clearly a marginal case where you should have used a max speced laptop right from the beginning.
Apple being sued by the US shows Samsung was right all along
When Apple gets sued by its own government in the US for monopolistic behavior, it goes to show how right Samsung has been all along.
www.sammobile.com
The more Apple attempts to lock me in. the more I look elsewhere. Am more than capable of making my own decisions and Apple is solely self serving. Down to just the one working Mac, just because I'm stubborn. Have no plan to replace, it's battery life & performance being it's saving graces...Apple being sued by the US shows Samsung was right all along
When Apple gets sued by its own government in the US for monopolistic behavior, it goes to show how right Samsung has been all along.www.sammobile.com
Q-6
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There is no difference between max specced in 2 years or max specced BTO, but there is if you are Apple, ok, in this example, I pay $4000 for the laptop, BTO, but let's say over the course of 3 years, I buy RAM, upgrade the SSD, maybe the internals, as I find the laptop lacking in the underwear dept,.. I go to the "istore" pay the man what is after 3 years, $6000 in upgrades, and along the way I buy an external power-bank, an external SSD, a dongle, apple mouse, spending in total $7000...
But I only buy the $4000 BTO laptop, which would be better for Apple? A once off purchase for say 10 years, or constant upgrade purchases over the same 10 years, as gear here in Africa, is beyond stupid expensive, as it is in so many parts of this rock...
Not everyone lives/works for US corporations that take advantage of the generous tax breaks, gear is so expensive it has to last, so to have to provide the outlay for "max" specced is really non viable, look Apple did the post purchase with the 1st gen Macbook Pro, then changed their minds, this makes sense for a device such as the Air, but for the Pro, it should be vastly different in every way, as much as an Airbus A380 is different from a Cessna trainer..
In that example he was using a seldom & old incompatible camera format, that was existing far before his MBA purchase.
After time, the probability that his camera becomes completely obsolete before the laptop gear is pretty high.
Actually it is a modern professional camera system, still in use by thousands of tv news operators, P2 is a very reliable viable system, the only problem is that the in camera codec has no equivalent codec for editing, this is to reduce file size on the cards..
Here is where Apple could/should have taken the lead, innovated a better in card system compatible with Apple hardware/software, we would have no problem paying for licenses etc, along with upgrades of desktops, laptops and phones...Apple is about money, then give us a reason to spend...
For example why is Logic Pro and Digital Audio/AV Networth Through Ethernet not a standard on Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/Ipad Pro [with Dante dongle], why not sell Dante gear through the Apple store, Apple gets the usual fee, like they do if you sell through the App Store?
I have shown examples of where Apple could/should have been mining cash billions by the week, selling upgrades, OS versions, devices-such as hard drives, power banks, etc, Yes Apple made a power bank, as a FU to the EU... Vision Pro needs an external battery? In 2024, please that was the biggest flip the bird to regulators if there ever was a bigger FU..
Apple is not trying, not at all, so far in 29 pages and 715 posts, no one has been able to explain why Apple changed the policy from upgrade to BTO, if BTO was to generate income, that simply cannot be, as it makes no logical sense, as I have explained, I needed in 2021/2022 to replace a 10 yr old Macbook Pro, and given only 2 options, Air or Pro, and given that the Air was functionally the same as the Pro, same RAM, only 2 ports, but a dongle gives me more, or the Pro which cannot be upgraded, I went for the Air, pure economics, but had the Pro been able to be upgraded, I would have upgraded, invested, but Apple gave me no reason to spend money...
That is the point, give the consumer a reason, upsell, let me decide what upgrades I need.. This is a solved problem it was solved 20 yrs ago, Apple successfully unsolved a solved problem...
The SOC, system on a chip, if that is the reason upgrades cannot be done, then that is a very bad design of the system on a chip, that is a perfect example of incompetence in industrial design.. So no I don't buy the SOC is the reason for BTO, that could/should be a solved issue 10 yrs ago...
The day Apple decided to go ahead with project M/Silicon, the decision should have been 1 chip/SOC for BTO/Air's, and another different chip design for post purchase niche markets, off shore markets..
Anyway Apple don't care, it will never change it's mind, lumpo will carry on obvlious to what damage and loss of income he causes, believing in carrots make you see better in the dark..
Here is where Apple could/should have taken the lead, innovated a better in card system compatible with Apple hardware/software, we would have no problem paying for licenses etc, along with upgrades of desktops, laptops and phones...Apple is about money, then give us a reason to spend...
For example why is Logic Pro and Digital Audio/AV Networth Through Ethernet not a standard on Mac Pro/MacBook Pro/Ipad Pro [with Dante dongle], why not sell Dante gear through the Apple store, Apple gets the usual fee, like they do if you sell through the App Store?
I have shown examples of where Apple could/should have been mining cash billions by the week, selling upgrades, OS versions, devices-such as hard drives, power banks, etc, Yes Apple made a power bank, as a FU to the EU... Vision Pro needs an external battery? In 2024, please that was the biggest flip the bird to regulators if there ever was a bigger FU..
Apple is not trying, not at all, so far in 29 pages and 715 posts, no one has been able to explain why Apple changed the policy from upgrade to BTO, if BTO was to generate income, that simply cannot be, as it makes no logical sense, as I have explained, I needed in 2021/2022 to replace a 10 yr old Macbook Pro, and given only 2 options, Air or Pro, and given that the Air was functionally the same as the Pro, same RAM, only 2 ports, but a dongle gives me more, or the Pro which cannot be upgraded, I went for the Air, pure economics, but had the Pro been able to be upgraded, I would have upgraded, invested, but Apple gave me no reason to spend money...
That is the point, give the consumer a reason, upsell, let me decide what upgrades I need.. This is a solved problem it was solved 20 yrs ago, Apple successfully unsolved a solved problem...
The SOC, system on a chip, if that is the reason upgrades cannot be done, then that is a very bad design of the system on a chip, that is a perfect example of incompetence in industrial design.. So no I don't buy the SOC is the reason for BTO, that could/should be a solved issue 10 yrs ago...
The day Apple decided to go ahead with project M/Silicon, the decision should have been 1 chip/SOC for BTO/Air's, and another different chip design for post purchase niche markets, off shore markets..
Anyway Apple don't care, it will never change it's mind, lumpo will carry on obvlious to what damage and loss of income he causes, believing in carrots make you see better in the dark..
It actually has. Sony Vegas is the professional editor for it and handles AVC Intra in all flavors natively (normal, it's their inhouse format). Only caveat: SonyVegas is Windows only.
No one?
I have explained it: Apple has chosen with the M a kernel that widely bypasses the hardware abstraction like smartphones/tablets' kernels do. This is extremely performant, but not flexible. You must match software*/hardware at factory.
*the OS, not the user-software.
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Why? Why is that the case? This whole thread is about why that is a failure by Apple, it is not progressive thinking, it is antiquated obsolete destructive thinking, it is going from 64bit to 2bit in 1 step...If you are saying this is because of the SOC, system on a chip design, then clearly lump of coal is truly the wrong person for the job... But the board love him, so he must be making the right decisions...
Match software to hardware, what does that even mean? It is Apple's decision to make, and they are making the wrong decision, it happens, I am sure every PHD MIT Alumuni that has an Apple issued work laptop knows this is a bad idea, what can they do to convince the fellow in charge he is wrong??
No, the thread isn't about WHY that is a failure by Apple, it's a thread about why FOR SOME people it isn't. Opinions, which are not fact, but thoughts.
Yours are clear. Indeed, the derisive terms by which you describe Apple's CEO might give us enough of a clue, and are borderline offensive, but they speak far more to your attitude than to his competence.
It appears that Apple and its products are not for you. Fair enough. For a lot of people it would appear Apple's products are actually popular. Clearly they (we) must all be stupid that you, singularly, know better than Apple, and us combined.
I would attempt to explain why your ideas don't fit the model by which Apple build systems for mainstream users, but I'm not sure what your ideas actually are if they were to be engineered into a product.
Lumps of coal are very useful, in the right circumstance...
You miss my point, the point is, Apple if they CHANGED, would be perfect, and they were, back in the early days of the macbook range, just after the switch to Intel, Apple had the macbook, plastic, and the macbook pro, perfect, the macbook pro was upgradeable, sadly being 32Bit OS,it was a failure as the more RAM really made no difference...
We are 64bit now and RAM makes a huge difference, I would invest in the macbook pro, RAM, SSD's but there is NO point as there is functionally no difference between air and pro, it is like this, you can buy a cheap Chevy Aveo, or a Porsche, but legally in the USA, they are functionally the same car, as they can only travel at the legal speed limit, no matter the size of the engines.. So why buy the Porsche, you cannot go any faster than a cheap Chevy Aveo...
Yes the Apple products are popular, but imagine how much more if it was Post Purchase Upgrade Enabled, instead of BTO, that is what stopped me from investing in the M range Pro, it was functionally disabled due to an obsolete outdated ideology...
All I am saying is, if anyone says that the reason Apple do not offer post purchase upgrading is because of System on a Chip, SOC, that is a false reason, Apple could have designed 2 chips, one for Air, one for Pro, the "system" that runs the Pro range, could have been designed to allow upgrading, for a fee, no question...
I am pretty certain there are many users that would buy low, sell high, in other words, upgrade devices, then sell them later, or keep them.
Really at the end of the day, Apple will do what they do best, and we can question the wisdom of the decisions.. Is Tim the right CEO for the position, given the recent news re the watch and patents? Lost so much money that there is a gap between M/Soft, and Apple, the size, exactly the market cap of Tesla.. Apple+Tesla=M/soft, and what hardware does M/soft sell? Every single SKU in the Apple range, all the subs, everything is less than M/soft??? Ouch..
You miss my point, the point is, Apple if they CHANGED, would be perfect, and they were, back in the early days of the macbook range, just after the switch to Intel, Apple had the macbook, plastic, and the macbook pro, perfect, the macbook pro was upgradeable, sadly being 32Bit OS,it was a failure as the more RAM really made no difference...
We are 64bit now and RAM makes a huge difference, I would invest in the macbook pro, RAM, SSD's but there is NO point as there is functionally no difference between air and pro, it is like this, you can buy a cheap Chevy Aveo, or a Porsche, but legally in the USA, they are functionally the same car, as they can only travel at the legal speed limit, no matter the size of the engines.. So why buy the Porsche, you cannot go any faster than a cheap Chevy Aveo...
Yes the Apple products are popular, but imagine how much more if it was Post Purchase Upgrade Enabled, instead of BTO, that is what stopped me from investing in the M range Pro, it was functionally disabled due to an obsolete outdated ideology...
All I am saying is, if anyone says that the reason Apple do not offer post purchase upgrading is because of System on a Chip, SOC, that is a false reason, Apple could have designed 2 chips, one for Air, one for Pro, the "system" that runs the Pro range, could have been designed to allow upgrading, for a fee, no question...
I am pretty certain there are many users that would buy low, sell high, in other words, upgrade devices, then sell them later, or keep them.
Really at the end of the day, Apple will do what they do best, and we can question the wisdom of the decisions.. Is Tim the right CEO for the position, given the recent news re the watch and patents? Lost so much money that there is a gap between M/Soft, and Apple, the size, exactly the market cap of Tesla.. Apple+Tesla=M/soft, and what hardware does M/soft sell? Every single SKU in the Apple range, all the subs, everything is less than M/soft??? Ouch..
I didn't miss your point. I probably didn't see your qualifications or experience in hardware engineering, product design, economics, business management, marketing, sales and support. I'd be quite happy to check those out if you can link to the post where you described them.
Otherwise, as much as I am highly critical of many of Apple's choices and policies - because they don't align with my needs or preferences - I am quite certain that as a corporate they know what they are doing, and why. Also that their senior management are better qualified than I am to run the business.
And for the record, I'm not a fan of Tim Cook either. However, he's a world renowned and highly respected CEO, a masterful manager of supply chains, and in charge of one of the world's most profitable and resourced companies. He has led the company right through to building the fastest and most powerful Macs ever developed, which also have the lowest power demands, whilst increasing market share and profitability. And he's done this at a time when global markets and supply chains were disrupted beyond recognition. By comparison to his achievements, your derision seems a little childish. Even Apple's competitors respect the guy.
Because it guarantees that the money being spent to upgrade the components goes to Apple and not some third party. There really is no other metric that matters to Tim.
Back in the upgradeable Mac days, I would very often sell a Mac with upgraded RAM that we source from third party manufacturers. The RAM we used was more reliable and cheaper than Apple supplied RAM and it would come with a lifetime warranty. Even when we had to remove the included RAM with a machine (because we needed the slots), the upgrade was cheaper than what Apple's BTO spec would have cost. And we were pricing in a 75% margin on that RAM and charging for the labour for the installation.
Fun story: we had a couple of roadies working the Black Eyed Peas show come in to buy a pair of laptops (this was back around 2005 or 2006). I was able to sell them the RAM at a discount and throw in free installation. In return, they gave us 10 tickets to the concert. It was a blast!
At just about 30 pages, many new viewers of this thread can be forgiven for seeing it as another hate-on-Apple discussion. Nothing could be further from the truth; the most prolific posters in this thread don't hate them. We just don't like some of the things they do.
For all my criticism, and I have a lot, I have an MBP, Mac Mini, iPhone 14, AirPods Pro, iPad Pro 12.9, iPad Apple Keyboard, Mac Keyboard, Magic Mouse, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch, and an Apple TV box in the gym for Apple Fitness +. My wife and kids also have several Apple devices. But I also have a PC and love it, along with Windows.
But if I were in Tim Cook's position, I would do exactly what he has done. Running a business like Apple is not the same as being a customer of Apple. As a paying customer, I will critique him and Apple based on my perceptions of what is good, bad, or ugly for me.
I am all for allowing other app stores on IOS, but I doubt I would use them if I get what I need from the Apple Store. It's more accessible, and family sharing often means I only have to buy an app once. I can be for something but do not want it myself. It's not a problem.
I don't even have a problem with 8GB devices like the MBA or the MBP. Apple knows its target market; it's why it does what it does. My wife and daughter have an 8GB MBA, one M1 and the other M2. Are they unhappy in any way? No. Do they care what's inside? No. It just needs to do what they want it to do and do it quickly.
I recall when the M1 MBA first came out, my neighbour got one, he shouted over the hedge "Lee, I got one of those new MacBooks, you know, the one with the new Intel M1 chip in it". Did I correct him? Of course not; he doesn't care; I just let him love his new device.
This thread for most, has not been about Hating on Apple, it's just about venting, what we would prefer Apple to do, things we know they won't do, yes we know, but nothing ever changes without discussion at all levels.
For all my criticism, and I have a lot, I have an MBP, Mac Mini, iPhone 14, AirPods Pro, iPad Pro 12.9, iPad Apple Keyboard, Mac Keyboard, Magic Mouse, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch, and an Apple TV box in the gym for Apple Fitness +. My wife and kids also have several Apple devices. But I also have a PC and love it, along with Windows.
But if I were in Tim Cook's position, I would do exactly what he has done. Running a business like Apple is not the same as being a customer of Apple. As a paying customer, I will critique him and Apple based on my perceptions of what is good, bad, or ugly for me.
I am all for allowing other app stores on IOS, but I doubt I would use them if I get what I need from the Apple Store. It's more accessible, and family sharing often means I only have to buy an app once. I can be for something but do not want it myself. It's not a problem.
I don't even have a problem with 8GB devices like the MBA or the MBP. Apple knows its target market; it's why it does what it does. My wife and daughter have an 8GB MBA, one M1 and the other M2. Are they unhappy in any way? No. Do they care what's inside? No. It just needs to do what they want it to do and do it quickly.
I recall when the M1 MBA first came out, my neighbour got one, he shouted over the hedge "Lee, I got one of those new MacBooks, you know, the one with the new Intel M1 chip in it". Did I correct him? Of course not; he doesn't care; I just let him love his new device.
This thread for most, has not been about Hating on Apple, it's just about venting, what we would prefer Apple to do, things we know they won't do, yes we know, but nothing ever changes without discussion at all levels.
Yes, can we please stop with the Tim Cook remarks.
Look, I made those post primarily about incompatibility of non Apple products in an Apple product ecosystem and my frustration with it.
This thread has veered off into ram pricing and upgrades. Two points I had already talked about but we're not the main point of the thread.
Just to be clear ANY thoughts, wishes, ideas of upgrading m series chips is NEVER going to happen. There are many technical reasons that are beyond the scope of this conversation and is a mute point.
Apple is not changing direction with one of the most successful series of laptop chips Apple has ever had, let alone made themselves. As others stated the upgrades are under Apple's control and no 3rd party competitions-ever for these laptops.
You can give a billion reasons why things should be different and Tim will show you Trillions of dollars in cash that says otherwise.
You are free to discuss whatever you want but let's try to keep it to business and less about Tim Cook or Apple generalizations. None of us are privy to the information Apple has. We don't understand the motivations from investors, geo political strategy with China, and so many factors.
I really wanted this thread to focus on lock in and how it affects people who like Apple products but have mixed hardware and how that negatively affects their work flow. I am guilty as anyone for going way off topic so I understand BUT, Can we please try to get back on topic.
Look, I made those post primarily about incompatibility of non Apple products in an Apple product ecosystem and my frustration with it.
This thread has veered off into ram pricing and upgrades. Two points I had already talked about but we're not the main point of the thread.
Just to be clear ANY thoughts, wishes, ideas of upgrading m series chips is NEVER going to happen. There are many technical reasons that are beyond the scope of this conversation and is a mute point.
Apple is not changing direction with one of the most successful series of laptop chips Apple has ever had, let alone made themselves. As others stated the upgrades are under Apple's control and no 3rd party competitions-ever for these laptops.
You can give a billion reasons why things should be different and Tim will show you Trillions of dollars in cash that says otherwise.
You are free to discuss whatever you want but let's try to keep it to business and less about Tim Cook or Apple generalizations. None of us are privy to the information Apple has. We don't understand the motivations from investors, geo political strategy with China, and so many factors.
I really wanted this thread to focus on lock in and how it affects people who like Apple products but have mixed hardware and how that negatively affects their work flow. I am guilty as anyone for going way off topic so I understand BUT, Can we please try to get back on topic.
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Ah @Technerd108 I'd give you a gold star for that if there was an emoji for it. Best post of the day.
(Except mine of course)!
(Except mine of course)!