Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[rin67630]

This is how desktop computing should be

i7 8700
32GB RAM
2TB NVMe SN770 for macOS
2TB NVMe SN580 for Win11
2TB SATA SSD for Time Machine

For you maybe. I just can't figure out why someone will fiddle days long on hackintoshs just to become the pretty bride macOS for a while before fiddling again with the next brew. MacOS is pretty, but highly bitchy with always something different that won't work, becomes forbidden or gets incompatible.
Is it masochism?

 

[turbineseaplane]

For you maybe. I just can't figure out why someone will fiddle days long on hackintoshs just to become the pretty bride macOS for a while before fiddling again with the next brew. MacOS is pretty, but highly bitchy with always something different that won't work, becomes forbidden or gets incompatible.
Is it masochism?

1. It's not "all days long" and any fiddling is a fun technical stimulation (for me)
2. Computers have been a hobby for me since the 1980s
3. This machine does something no current Apple one can -- Dual boot and game in Windows 11, which I do daily
4. Related to #3 - it effortlessly runs 4k/120hz with no restrictions based upon which CPU tier "gouge level" one has chosen to accept from King Tim
5. I can effortlessly add or upgrade internal disks and I don't have cable spaghetti and external enclosures strewn about to do it.
6. I get to choose from a MASSIVE array of really case designs and options
7. I could go on...

 

[rin67630]

1. It's not "all days long" and any fiddling is a fun technical stimulation (for me)
2. Computers have been a hobby for me since the 1980s
3. This machine does something no current Apple one can -- Dual boot and game in Windows 11, which I do daily
4. Related to #3 - it effortlessly runs 4k/120hz with no restrictions based upon which CPU tier "gouge level" one has chosen to accept from King Tim
5. I can effortlessly add or upgrade internal disks and I don't have cable spaghetti and external enclosures strewn about to do it.
6. I get to choose from a MASSIVE array of really case designs and options
7. I could go on...

But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows.
Excepted trouble, obviously !

 

[turbineseaplane]

But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows.
Excepted trouble, obviously !

They both work for me, but I'm a really heavy iMessage user so it works best for me as a daily driver
I exist on both throughout the day though

Anyways, I was only posting again to share my excitement of my latest "Hack" move
Just trying to share some "fun", as so much of this forum has become pretty negative

(often the negative vibes have good reason - but still it's tiring eventually)

 

[avkills]

But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows.
Excepted trouble, obviously !

They really are not that big of a problem anymore. The only downside I can see is the GPU side. If we were still able to put nVidia cards in Mac Pros and Hackintoshs then there is a good chance I would still be on a hackintosh for my home machine. Economically they make a lot of sense if you don't mind fooling around to get it working.

 

[rin67630]

They really are not that big of a problem anymore. The only downside I can see is the GPU side. If we were still able to put nVidia cards in Mac Pros and Hackintoshs then there is a good chance I would still be on a hackintosh for my home machine. Economically they make a lot of sense if you don't mind fooling around to get it working.

That does not answer the question: But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows?
One valid (albeit very weak) answer was iMessage.

 

[turbineseaplane]

One valid (albeit very weak) answer was iMessage.

What is weak about it?

I use iMessage all day long for work and personal communication

Some people just prefer macOS
That's enough of a reason as any for one to choose it

 

[avkills]

That does not answer the question: But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows?
One valid (albeit very weak) answer was iMessage.

Personally for me I can work a lot faster in macOS than Windows. I just like the way the file system and the file system interface works on macOS.

I can easily work on either, but generally become annoyed faster when I am working in Windows.

Overall I think macOS is just a better OS and the GUI is better. But everyone is different.

 

[Regulus67]

That does not answer the question: But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows?
One valid (albeit very weak) answer was iMessage.

What is wrong with the answer he gave?

It is fun to build a machine, and set it up however one like 🥰
And using both Windows and MacOS gives you the best of both worlds. Using macOS does not exclude using Windows , or the other way around.
If the machine can run both. Or even Linux, if one wishes.
I spent years doing this. And the past year, I run MacOS and Windows on one machine, the Intel Mac Pro 7.1.

 

[za9ra22]

They both work for me, but I'm a really heavy iMessage user so it works best for me as a daily driver
I exist on both throughout the day though

Anyways, I was only posting again to share my excitement of my latest "Hack" move
Just trying to share some "fun", as so much of this forum has become pretty negative

(often the negative vibes have good reason - but still it's tiring eventually)

This is a long and rather noble tradition that goes back to the start of the microcomputing revolution, when everyone tinkered and did battle with their systems. Usually, that was the only way to get them doing anything!

A hackintosh always seemed like a good idea to me - the benefits of a Mac but without Apple's hardware entry fee, and there's a whole lot to be said for that. Plus a more cost effective dual boot Mac/Windows solution too. The one I ran for a few years was great fun... and challenging in ways I found personally very satisfying.

That does not answer the question: But what do you get from macOS that you don't get on Windows?
One valid (albeit very weak) answer was iMessage.

The reason that macOS exists is that some people like it. Some things work better on it than Windows, some things not. Thankfully, the gatekeeper who's choice matters is the individual.

 

[Regulus67]

This is a long and rather noble tradition that goes back to the start of the microcomputing revolution, when everyone tinkered and did battle with their systems. Usually, that was the only way to get them doing anything!

That comment brings back memories ! 🥰

My first PC had a Pentium 90 MHz, that I bought used. At one time, my experimentation with the BIOS got so bad I could not restart the machine 🤣 And I had to call the seller, and have him fix it. So that I could continue my exploration of the PC, and Windows 95.
What really taught me a lot about hardware and software, and how it worked, was when I started using Linux SuSE 6.2.

This discussion here has been really great at times. With a few low moments, when I don't feel like even commenting.

The past month I have been considering installing Linux, or FreeBSD as well.
Just to re-learn and catch up a bit on the progress that has been made in the past two decades.

 

[rin67630]

I run MacOS and Windows on one machine, the Intel Mac Pro 7.1

So do I. I was about 36 months on macOS, just because it is the native OS of my Macbook Pro.
I had even managed to accept many of its odds.
Then I returned to Windows as my main driver and it is like a breeze of fresh air...
No more incompatibilities, every single one of my softwares works, irrespective how old it is, everything just works, works and keeps working...
And I found again my Windows versions of Office and had almost forgotten how better and more powerful they are compared to the pale macOS version.

I like my Macbook and its Retina screen, and it is ways better with Windows.

 

[rin67630]

The reason that macOS exists is that some people like it.

I wouldn't be that sure. Many just have no alternative, when you buy a new Mac you get macOS. Period.

 

[Regulus67]

I wouldn't be that sure. Many just have no alternative, when you buy a new Mac you get macOS. Period.

That's why people buy a mac. If they do not want to use macOS, they buy a PC.
What a strange statement

 

[Regulus67]

I have Windows 10 installed. Not because I like Windows, but because I want to be able to play some games on my mac.
For the past 8 years, I prefer macOS, and mac.

But I never claim Windows is bad. If steam didn't cut support for Windows 7, I would still use my old PC for older games. Like Euro Truck Simulator 2. And play newer games on Playstation.
Instead, I got the Intel Mac Pro. So I have no need for a dedicated gaming PC, or a Playstation 5.

 

[za9ra22]

I wouldn't be that sure. Many just have no alternative, when you buy a new Mac you get macOS. Period.

I am not just sure, but certain. And after 40 years, I've met and worked with plenty who would say the same. Plus, I never knew anyone that bought a Mac for the sake merely of the Mac.

Nor, actually, do you have to use macOS. Plenty of lively discussions even here about linux alternatives.

 

[Technerd108]

I find using multiple OS at the same time is a lot of fun and you can learn a lot.

I would never do a hackintosh but Linux is great. If you are interested in Linux and BSD start with Ubuntu Linux first. Get used to how Linux works, apt-get and many other types of command lines or terminal commands. Get used to some tinkering on Linux to get everything working right. Then once you have used a Linux distro you like and I suggest going to Distrowatch.com and you will have all the distros listed and some tutorials. Been following since the late 90s.

Then try BSD. BSD has gotten a lot better than in the past when you had to basically configure everything manually and even then a lot of things just wouldn't work. BSD is better but still take a lot more knowledge to get running well.

As a discussion in terms of what operating system do I prefer? I look at it this way. Which one can I do more on, faster, with less incompatibilities and which one takes me less clicks etc. to get the same task done. Windows may not be as pretty as MacOS and that I think is the main thing most people focus on. Looks. MacOS is so pretty and it always has been. But sometimes an ugly text interface like Terminal is way faster, easier and more powerful than any GUI. So Windows is a bit ugly with a lot of dated UI elements throughout. Menus can be confusing. But day to day those issues really aren't a problem. I think the GUI in Windows 11 has made a lot of improvements. I hope they continue to clean up the old interfaces but still keep them for us old schoolers.

I prefer to look at MacOS but I prefer to use Windows. That being said animations on MacOS are so much better than on Windows and general polish and most apps all follow the same UI unlike Windows. MacOS is way more secure by default with a Unix base, I like how Unix works compared to Windows in some cases. Unix or MacOS is slower but generally more stable. Things have changed though and I find Windows to be more stable than MacOS and faster??

So both have their strengths and weaknesses but since I decided to choose the Windows/Linux/ChromeOS side of things those are the reasons I went with Windows rather than MacOS. Then there is Apple and the Apple ecosystem which I have already covered.

The thing is despite the problems with Windows everything works. Stick a usb stick or a ssd drive or a new printer and I don't have to check if it is compatible with a Mac. Linux is way, way worse in this department. So compatibility with accessories or peripheral's is pretty much just a given with Windows. Software library is extensive and old software that you used to actually buy still works with new Windows versions saving money on new software purchases or subscription fees. I can tweak windows so much and bend it to my will with a few registry tweaks or command line sessions. Telemetry everyone complains about in Windows-You can turn it off. Apps talking-I can use Windows firewall and turn off that one app communicating with the net. I can monitor my internet traffic in real time all very easily with built in tools. I can make Windows 11 look like Windows XP, 7, 10 pretty easily. And a lot, lot more. Also Windows on a tablet or touch device is very nice too.

I have heard that Intel is working with Microsoft on Lunar Lake and Arrow lake for Windows optimizations for the chips. I am pretty sure the same thing is happening with Qualcomm. There has been some changes within Microsoft and I think they understand a lot of the long time Windows users complaints and new complaints about the subscription models so we will see what the future brings but it looks to be an exciting time for Windows, Intel and Qualcomm!

 

[Regulus67]

I find using multiple OS at the same time is a lot of fun and you can learn a lot.

I would never do a hackintosh but Linux is great. If you are interested in Linux and BSD start with Ubuntu Linux first. Get used to how Linux works, apt-get and many other types of command lines or terminal commands. Get used to some tinkering on Linux to get everything working right. Then once you have used a Linux distro you like and I suggest going to Distrowatch.com and you will have all the distros listed and some tutorials. Been following since the late 90s.

Then try BSD. BSD has gotten a lot better than in the past when you had to basically configure everything manually and even then a lot of things just wouldn't work. BSD is better but still take a lot more knowledge to get running well.

Thank you 👍
The main reason I wish to start using it again, is to use terminal, and compile software. And possibly even look at some source code. I have forgotten how to do those tasks.
But I can not use Linux without a good desktop like KDE.
I know, I tried and failed with to basic desktop environments 😆

 

[Technerd108]

Thank you 👍
The main reason I wish to start using it again, is to use terminal, and compile software. And possibly even look at some source code. I have forgotten how to do those tasks.
But I can not use Linux without a good desktop like KDE.
I know, I tried and failed with to basic desktop environments 😆

Try Kubuntu

Kubuntu | Friendly Computing

kubuntu.org

One of my favorite KDE oriented distros. Like Ubuntu with KDE.

Alternatively you can downloaded the KDE desktop in UBuntu and choose between the default desktop or KDE.

I prefer Kubuntu because it is more tweaked for KDE specifically while the KDE desktop in Ubuntu is not.

Also Fedora, Mint, PopOS, ZorinOS, etc.

More advanced Linux would be straight Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, etc.

Generally the top 10 on Distrowatch.com are good choices but the site although dated has so much info and resources on Linux.

DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

News and feature lists of Linux and BSD distributions.

distrowatch.com

 

[Technerd108]

Microsoft is making Windows 11 look more like Windows 10

The Widgets button has found a new home on Windows 11, and it's giving us Windows 10 vibes.

www.msn.com

 

[Und Eser]

Great OP and thread!

Was starting to wonder if there'd ever be any kind of push-back against the proprietorial monument to freestyle capitalism that is Apple.

Seems that ubiquitous, stale and demonstrably false "it just works" trope is now finally only itself working on the Kool-Aid Apple cultists and people are increasingly waking up to more cost-efficient alternatives, not least the many Linux distros and their ever-improving cross-OS and hardware compatibilities.

These devices we use are no longer luxuries. They have become essential and indispensable tools for everyday living, the rising cost of which makes it increasingly difficult to justify continuing to overpay for Apple's profiteering dogma in relation to hardware and software spec and noticeably more product-quality compromises in various areas of both.

 

[Thysanoptera]

I'm going in the opposite direction, ever since M1 came out I almost stopped using Windows. Those new MacBooks Pro are the best computing devices I've ever laid my hands on, it's just a pleasure to use. I always had some basic Apple laptop during the dark ages of butterfly keyboard, used at home, but was using Windows machines for any serious work, which were objectively better, and if not you could hack them to your will. Now Apple finally has the hardware, different from x86 crowd, that I am willing to pay those exorbitant prices for and I think for the last three years didn't buy a single Windows laptop. I was usually buying two a year, just because I was hoping the next one will suck less.

In the last two years got rid or Rokus and got multiple Apple TVs in the house, all my home auto is HomeKit now (well, almost, some is bridged through HomeAssistant), HomePods everywhere, kids got Apple Watches for Christmas. I would never transition fully to Apple if it wasn't for the Mac hardware. I even stopped being active on this forum, because all my crap works and I'm happy with it. Don't feel the need to track all the latest news hoping some new hardware will come out that satisfies my needs. OK, I'm kind of waiting for 32bit DXVK.

I may reconsider if someone comes up with Windows hardware that plays Cyberpunk at high in FHD@60 fps while using 50W total system power.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@Thysanoptera

Laptops are one thing... no question
Show me that macOS desktop running something like MSFS though
(or any # of top tier current games only on Windows/Console)

😬

(still loving being a dual booter for my needs -- one machine -- do it all! -- holy grail!)

 

[Thysanoptera]

@Thysanoptera

Laptops are one thing... no question
Show me that macOS desktop running something like MSFS though
(or any # of top tier current games only on Windows/Console)

😬

(still loving being a dual booter for my needs -- one machine -- do it all! -- holy grail!)

For MSFS I have 7800x3d + 4090, Honeycomb yoke + throttle, TM rudders (the big metal ones) two wimaxit touchscreens with knobster for panels, 38 inch monitor for main display and 24 inch touchscreen above for overhead panel. I have a separate rig for iRacing too, and another for general and VR gaming.

On the road MPB plays fairly well all the new Windows games, I play only CP77, Diablo IV and BG3 (Mac port is screwed right now, Windows runs fine), and that's after multiple layers of translation, it's pretty amazing.

 

[turbineseaplane]

or MSFS I have 7800x3d + 4090

LOVE IT!!!

Totally awesome