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I am not just sure, but certain. And after 40 years, I've met and worked with plenty who would say the same. Plus, I never knew anyone that bought a Mac for the sake merely of the Mac.
I bought a 2020 iMac that was new in 2022 last year just for the 5k glossy display. It was really nice for photo/video editing because of the colour reproduction being so similar to how phones and tablets look.

However, the GPU was just too slow for pushing ~14M pixels. I tried to use macOS on it but honestly I find it to be a cumbersome desktop OS, with poor window management and Finder is atrocious. An OS should simply nail those two things, as well as security and speed, while letting you use your software. It simply does not, for me.

I did run Windows 10 on it and it ran quite well, certainly faster than macOS, albeit not as pretty. But every time I switched to my ~2014 era PC with 4790k and GTX970 (pretty entry-level GPU at the time), it just worked faster, despite being 8 years older than the iMac and with half the RAM (16GB instead of 32GB on the iMac). GPU is about 50% faster while pushing 8M pixels instead of 14. So I sold it, even though they lost a ton of value and go quite cheap these days (so much for high Apple resale value), and I'll probably toss a 4070 Ti Super in this rig and eventually do CPU/RAM/mobo.

Plus a 32" 4K display is nicer to work with for photo/video anyways, for me, without janky macOS scaling for non-integer multiples of their base DPI.

So now the only macs I have now is a MBA that I only boot to Mint Xfce (so much faster), and a '19 16" MPB with a display that isn't working. Apple "genius" quoted something like C$1300 to replace the logic board but I think it's just a faulty ribbon cable as the GPU works to an external monitor.
 
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But every time I switched to my ~2014 era PC with 4790k and GTX970 (pretty entry-level GPU at the time), it just worked faster, despite being 8 years older than the iMac and with half the RAM (16GB instead of 32GB on the iMac).
I cannot backup my claim with a proof, but i have the same feeling with Apple's Boot Camp graphic NVidia drivers.
They are just awfully slow compared to the original, probably they are not not supporting Vulkan?
On a MBA, where I can use the standard Intel video drivers, I see no difference with an equivalent non-Apple hardware.
I suspect Apple made absolutely no effort to let Windows under Boot Camp run like it could.
 
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Can I ask a really stupid question??
I can, great, so here it is....

Why is software married to hardware in 2024? Why is it mandatory to run Mac OS on a Macbook Air/Laptop/Mini? Why is it mandatory to run Wun10/11 on a Dell?

We have a duopoly in tech, 2 big software "giants" Apple and Windows, Apple runs their own software on their own hardware, M/soft has no real hardware, it is all 99% software..

The way I see it, it is like this, you have a car, a GM brand, would GM be allowed to sell the car if you could only refuel at Sunoco? No, so why is Apple allowed to sell a product that can only run 1 operating system?

The hardware should be universal OS. OS agnostic, that is Linux/Mac/Win10/11, the buyer should have the option on what OS they want, if I want to run FCP, I buy Mac OS, if I want something that is universal, I buy what I want, or maybe install a linux distro.. If I prefer the Windows Excel Word, I pay for a Windows licence, if I want pages/numbers, I buy Mac OS licence..

Hardware should not determine what OS you use, it should be the owners decision, as "gas" petrol cars can run on any brand, regardless of who's brand, there is a standard grading of fuel, the brands can add things to their product, but the fuel cannot be enhanced to exclude any car brand, it is agnostic to the car, you might prefer Shell over BP, or Sunoco...

Laptops should be universal in the software that drives the internals, Apple can "tune" Mac OS to enhance certain aspects, or sell internal products like FCP/Logic, media players, but not at the expense of excluding other OS, other editing apps from full functionality..

Thoughts???
 
No, so why is Apple allowed to sell a product that can only run 1 operating system?
That is liberty.
The real question is why do people buy such devices? Why do people buy a iPhone that does not let you download its music content? Why do people accept so many restrictions from their beloved Apple devices?

Honestly I don't understand it.
Maybe a Stockhom syndrome?
 
ok, why does someone buy a Sammy over say LG or Sony? They all run some form of Android? So the same should apply to Apple. You buy Apple for the camera, the audio, storage options, but for Apple to not run Android, that is not right.. This used to be the case before Android, every cellphone brand ran it's own OS, and that was what you bought, you wanted that phone for the OS, cameras were basically useless.. It was features and the OS combined, when Android started to replace, it was only features, storage, the camera..

Apple not, why? Why is Apple the only brand to not run Android?
 
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Can I ask a really stupid question??
I can, great, so here it is....

Why is software married to hardware in 2024? Why is it mandatory to run Mac OS on a Macbook Air/Laptop/Mini? Why is it mandatory to run Wun10/11 on a Dell?

We have a duopoly in tech, 2 big software "giants" Apple and Windows, Apple runs their own software on their own hardware, M/soft has no real hardware, it is all 99% software..

The way I see it, it is like this, you have a car, a GM brand, would GM be allowed to sell the car if you could only refuel at Sunoco? No, so why is Apple allowed to sell a product that can only run 1 operating system?

The hardware should be universal OS. OS agnostic, that is Linux/Mac/Win10/11, the buyer should have the option on what OS they want, if I want to run FCP, I buy Mac OS, if I want something that is universal, I buy what I want, or maybe install a linux distro.. If I prefer the Windows Excel Word, I pay for a Windows licence, if I want pages/numbers, I buy Mac OS licence..

Hardware should not determine what OS you use, it should be the owners decision, as "gas" petrol cars can run on any brand, regardless of who's brand, there is a standard grading of fuel, the brands can add things to their product, but the fuel cannot be enhanced to exclude any car brand, it is agnostic to the car, you might prefer Shell over BP, or Sunoco...

Laptops should be universal in the software that drives the internals, Apple can "tune" Mac OS to enhance certain aspects, or sell internal products like FCP/Logic, media players, but not at the expense of excluding other OS, other editing apps from full functionality..

Thoughts???
ok, why does someone buy a Sammy over say LG or Sony? They all run some form of Android? So the same should apply to Apple. You buy Apple for the camera, the audio, storage options, but for Apple to not run Android, that is not right.. This used to be the case before Android, every cellphone brand ran it's own OS, and that was what you bought, you wanted that phone for the OS, cameras were basically useless.. It was features and the OS combined, when Android started to replace, it was only features, storage, the camera..

Apple not, why? Why is Apple the only brand to not run Android?
You have a few foundational misunderstandings of how Apple developed differently from Microsoft many years ago and Android was actually a copy of iOS using the Linux kernel.

Apple always sold hardware married to software. Microsoft took the opposite approach. Microsoft allowed their software on any device that would run it and pay a license fee.

Google simply copied Microsoft format but using open source software mostly. It allowed Google to grow Android much faster using OEMS like Microsoft did rather than make both the hardware and software. It wasn’t until many years after Android was going they released Nexus then Pixel again like Microsoft with Surface line. The difference is Microsoft and Google use their product lines to move the OS forward with their vision of how the hardware should work. Google also has a vested interesting harvesting as much data as possible getting users to use their services and Android and Pixel have enormously successful in that endeavor and is why Google actively develops software it doesn't charge OEMs for. Completely different business model than Apple or even Microsoft when they started anyway.

However you will NEVER EVER see Android on an iPhone or iOS on Samsung.

As others have said if you don't like Apple's tactics then Apple doesn't seem to give you much choice nor care. You either take your lumps of coal along with your gifts. You get m series with great performance and best battery life on a laptop and Apple knows Windows laptops can't compete on both 100% yet.

Apple doesn't come cheap. Apple doesn't care about our opinion on it's software or hardware choices unless they dramatically affect bottom line. Apple doesn't care about being compatible or cross platform anything. You are either all in Apple or you are out.
 
Should laptops and phones be tied to a brand of OS or "open" to run on a number of operating systems?
Is Apple charging high prices solely to exploit? Is $1000 for RAM even legal?
Should the buyer determine what OS drives the device, and not be forced into buying the phone/laptop pre-installed?
 
Should laptops and phones be tied to a brand of OS or "open" to run on a number of operating systems?
Is Apple charging high prices solely to exploit? Is $1000 for RAM even legal?
Should the buyer determine what OS drives the device, and not be forced into buying the phone/laptop pre-installed?
Of course $1k ram is legal. In fact, you can charge whatever your customers are willing to pay.

No. The buyer does not determine what OS drives a device?

You are not forced into anything. You don't have to buy Apple products if you think their pricing is out of line. It is really that simple. If I were in your position I would buy a Windows alternative. If I had to invest in new software or learn a new way of doing things I would. Simply because it seems you have no other choice or pay Apple.

It is doubtful people will buy a device without an OS pre-installed???

I am not trying to be rude. Please understand it is just you seem to want what is not going to happen and instead of taking meaningful action you are making more and more wild claims. Now even going so far as to say you want Android on an iPhone....
 
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Of course $1k ram is legal. In fact, you can charge whatever your customers are willing to pay.

No. The buyer does not determine what OS drives a device?

You are not forced into anything. You don't have to buy Apple products if you think their pricing is out of line. It is really that simple. If I were in your position I would buy a Windows alternative. If I had to invest in new software or learn a new way of doing things I would. Simply because it seems you have no other choice or pay Apple.

It is doubtful people will buy a device without an OS pre-installed???

I am not trying to be rude. Please understand it is just you seem to want what is not going to happen and instead of taking meaningful action you are making more and more wild claims. Now even going so far as to say you want Android on an iPhone....
In fact, Apple at its lowest point, before the return of Steve Jobs, actually did this. It licensed Mac OS to third party hardware vendors. The results were terrible. Like the death of Apple terrible. I am sure that hasn't been forgotten.
 
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In fact, Apple at its lowest point, before the return of Steve Jobs, actually did this. It licensed Mac OS to third party hardware vendors. The results were terrible. Like the death of Apple terrible. I am sure that hasn't been forgotten.
So therefore it should never be tried again? The problem is Apple is back there, with truly awful devices, having to charge what is practice unethical borderline illegal prices for devices, not selling devices capable of upgrading..

The question is: Should hardware and software be married on the same device? Why not sell devices that the user gets to choose what OS they want? I can buy laptops with an OS [Win] or without, not pay for the Win licence..

Apple should sell laptops/phones with or without an OS, and the OS should be my choice..Just a thought!
 
In fact, Apple at its lowest point, before the return of Steve Jobs, actually did this. It licensed Mac OS to third party hardware vendors. The results were terrible. Like the death of Apple terrible. I am sure that hasn't been forgotten.


Having last been tried almost 30 years ago, I think it's fair to argue this could be tried again, however

Things do change

We really should now be at a point where we are making more sustainable and adaptable technology
 
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truly awful devices

They are not awful devices at all.

unethical borderline illegal prices for devices

Nonsense.

not selling devices capable of upgrading

Not only Apple does this, many laptops out there can't be upgraded.

Why not sell devices that the user gets to choose what OS they want?

You have plenty of choices to achieve this. Just not with Apple. You want what you can't have, accept it, move on.
 
So therefore it should never be tried again?
Apple invested millions in developing hardware, which consumers like - which is demonstrable because they sell like the proverbial hot cakes. When it licensed MacOS so other producers could build and sell Macs, what happened is that for each 'clone' that was sold, Apple made a small amount of money on the MacOS license. Much like Microsoft did and still does. But each clone sold was a net loss of sales to Apple, which quickly robbed it of money available to pay for hardware already developed, as well as to plough back into new hardware development. Essentially (unlike Microsoft), they gave away their hardware market and robbed themselves of cashflow.

Not just that though, because since the clone systems were still running MacOS, Apple ended up fielding the majority of support. It was a rapid form of corporate financial suicide.

Could they try again? It is hard to see why they should or would. There are huge costs associated with the development of Apple hardware, which is only returned when Apple product sells.

...borderline illegal prices for devices...
I am really curious what law(s) you believe Apple is close to breaking. That is what 'illegal' means.

....not selling devices capable of upgrading..
This is a choice they have made which is entirely consistent with their history. It is, you might even say, extremely well known that they do this. I'm not sure why, if they think this is how their systems ought to be, you'd have any right to expect otherwise.

The question is: Should hardware and software be married on the same device? Why not sell devices that the user gets to choose what OS they want? I can buy laptops with an OS [Win] or without, not pay for the Win licence..

Apple should sell laptops/phones with or without an OS, and the OS should be my choice..Just a thought!
That isn't the question at all, because you already know the answer - because they want to do it that way.

Incidentally, while true that some PCs come with no OS, most do actually come with Windows. Yes, you can refuse the EULA at first startup, and end up with no viable Windows to use, but you did still pay for the license, you just refused their terms of use, and you likely won't get that cost back, because the hardware manufacturer already paid it to Microsoft. The only certain way you get no OS cost is to buy a Linux box, in which case you might not be able to even run Windows, but even if you do, the cost to you is not minor.

Anyway... there are plenty of people using Macs to run Windows or Linux, and quite a few people running Mac OS on systems built on PC architecture, so these things are to some degree possible for those who want to. I use DOS on my Mac, and ironically MacOS 7.1 on my Windows PC. Strange things are possible for those who need them. But commonly, since Microsoft don't build hardware, they don't care what you run Windows on as long as they can profit from it, and between them and he PC builders, they can fix the market so that upgrading Windows can force you to upgrade your PC too. It isn't sweetness and light by any means on that side of the fence, and that's before you discover the wealth of hardware/driver/OS issues that splintering software, OS and hardware across thousands of manufacturers and programmers can cause.

On Apple's side, you may see it as a simple matter of Apple being greedy, which is probably true. But there is another part to this which is crucially important, and that is users. You can stamp your foot and demand that you're a user just like everybody else, but actually you're not. Apple's 'typical' user is someone who buys a computer (or other device), and just wants to use it. No fuss, no decisions, no fiddling, no juggling with screwdrivers and parts. Apple's typical customer is a consumer.

Why it matters is that for these people, all those choices you want to make are things that get in the way, and so Apple make devices which couple the hardware, operating system, and much of the most commonly needed software together in a package that you can just power up, and enjoy. And because they control the whole thing so tightly, it means that when there are extras you might want, the hardware and drivers it might need have to be written so they integrate easily too.

I get that this approach doesn't suit your needs, desires or interest, but if not, then Apple's stuff isn't for you. Which is fine because there's Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, HP... there are even micro systems such as Raspberry Pi (which are stupendously good, and dirt cheap). You can run Linux of a thousand varieties, ChromeOS, Windows, and even in some cases MacOS on these. You have a great deal of choice, lots of options and can spend (almost) as little as you want on them.

But those of us who want to buy a computer to just unbox and use, and who like the relative simplicity of macOS, and the relative neatness of the ecosystem, don't have all that choice and largely don't want it. So the question to you is, why do you want to take our choice away and impose yours on us instead? Because that would be the result of Apple bowing to your demands. You'd gain nothing more than one more choice, and we would loose all of ours.
 
Apple invested millions in developing hardware, which consumers like - which is demonstrable because they sell like the proverbial hot cakes. When it licensed MacOS so other producers could build and sell Macs, what happened is that for each 'clone' that was sold, Apple made a small amount of money on the MacOS license. Much like Microsoft did and still does. But each clone sold was a net loss of sales to Apple, which quickly robbed it of money available to pay for hardware already developed, as well as to plough back into new hardware development. Essentially (unlike Microsoft), they gave away their hardware market and robbed themselves of cashflow.

Not just that though, because since the clone systems were still running MacOS, Apple ended up fielding the majority of support. It was a rapid form of corporate financial suicide.

Could they try again? It is hard to see why they should or would. There are huge costs associated with the development of Apple hardware, which is only returned when Apple product sells.


I am really curious what law(s) you believe Apple is close to breaking. That is what 'illegal' means.


This is a choice they have made which is entirely consistent with their history. It is, you might even say, extremely well known that they do this. I'm not sure why, if they think this is how their systems ought to be, you'd have any right to expect otherwise.


That isn't the question at all, because you already know the answer - because they want to do it that way.

Incidentally, while true that some PCs come with no OS, most do actually come with Windows. Yes, you can refuse the EULA at first startup, and end up with no viable Windows to use, but you did still pay for the license, you just refused their terms of use, and you likely won't get that cost back, because the hardware manufacturer already paid it to Microsoft. The only certain way you get no OS cost is to buy a Linux box, in which case you might not be able to even run Windows, but even if you do, the cost to you is not minor.

Anyway... there are plenty of people using Macs to run Windows or Linux, and quite a few people running Mac OS on systems built on PC architecture, so these things are to some degree possible for those who want to. I use DOS on my Mac, and ironically MacOS 7.1 on my Windows PC. Strange things are possible for those who need them. But commonly, since Microsoft don't build hardware, they don't care what you run Windows on as long as they can profit from it, and between them and he PC builders, they can fix the market so that upgrading Windows can force you to upgrade your PC too. It isn't sweetness and light by any means on that side of the fence, and that's before you discover the wealth of hardware/driver/OS issues that splintering software, OS and hardware across thousands of manufacturers and programmers can cause.

On Apple's side, you may see it as a simple matter of Apple being greedy, which is probably true. But there is another part to this which is crucially important, and that is users. You can stamp your foot and demand that you're a user just like everybody else, but actually you're not. Apple's 'typical' user is someone who buys a computer (or other device), and just wants to use it. No fuss, no decisions, no fiddling, no juggling with screwdrivers and parts. Apple's typical customer is a consumer.

Why it matters is that for these people, all those choices you want to make are things that get in the way, and so Apple make devices which couple the hardware, operating system, and much of the most commonly needed software together in a package that you can just power up, and enjoy. And because they control the whole thing so tightly, it means that when there are extras you might want, the hardware and drivers it might need have to be written so they integrate easily too.

I get that this approach doesn't suit your needs, desires or interest, but if not, then Apple's stuff isn't for you. Which is fine because there's Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, HP... there are even micro systems such as Raspberry Pi (which are stupendously good, and dirt cheap). You can run Linux of a thousand varieties, ChromeOS, Windows, and even in some cases MacOS on these. You have a great deal of choice, lots of options and can spend (almost) as little as you want on them.

But those of us who want to buy a computer to just unbox and use, and who like the relative simplicity of macOS, and the relative neatness of the ecosystem, don't have all that choice and largely don't want it. So the question to you is, why do you want to take our choice away and impose yours on us instead? Because that would be the result of Apple bowing to your demands. You'd gain nothing more than one more choice, and we would loose all of ours.
I agreed with you until the end.

At this Point Apple could successfully pull off selling hardware and opening up the OS to cross platform compatibility. Besides Justine I don't think anyone on this thread seriously thinks for one second about installing another OS on any Apple hardware.

The reason is simple. Apple can't go back in time. I didn't bring up the entire licensing fiasco with Apple in the past but I don't think that would be a problem if they tried again but as others have said there is absolutely no benefit to Apple and a lot of risks. Apple has already gone down a path and FULLY committed to it. There is no left turn or u turn.

However if Apple did start letting OEM's install MacOS it would rob anyone of their choices. In fact, it would only open up a lot of hardware choice to you. It would give you a lower cost of ownership because right now Apple has no competition directly with it's hardware since it doesn't share the OS.

Apple could transition into a primarily software company and let OEM's figure out the hardware mostly. They could keep selling Apple hardware like the surface or Pixel line to guide OEM's and to deliver the customized experience people love about Mac's. They could continue to charge an inflated price for the hardware and who could really complain because you could buy an OEM that might be really similar for half the price. Apple could have signed driver program that all OEM's have to abide by and get approved by Apple. Just like ChromeOS. OEM's make the hardware but Google delivers an entire package with drivers and updates without OEM's involvement. No installing drivers. Apple could do the exact same thing.

So it could be done and in the end it would be more profitable and de-link Apple with any country that makes their hardware as hardware would not be a primary concern anymore. Software quality would greatly increase as that would now be the main selling point. OEM's would push the boundaries of hardware using MacOS to get people to upgrade which would be great for Apple and users.

It could be done. Apple could transition from a primarily hardware and software company to a primarily software company that sells some hardware. Apple could focus on best selling hardware and eliminate the rest and let OEM's get the rest. It could be even more profitable. BUT it WILL never happen.

There is a ton of risk involved and little to no payoff. Companies will take risk if there is a fast pay off or at least a structured and guaranteed income stream but to take a gamble with no immediate pay off and risk possible failure when you are doing well makes no sense.

So go all in with Apple, pay their prices and keep your hardware as long as you can. Buy second hand or from places like Swappa with a year of use and you can knock off a ton of depreciation and not pay Apple directly for new hardware. There are ways you can get Apple gear cheaper no matter where you are in the world. Apple and all companies charge differently in different regions and sometimes that pricing is certainly unfair but you need to adapt and overcome instead of continuing to fight a battle you will never win. Either continue with Apple and suck it up. It is not all bad. Apple makes some great hardware and software. OR DO SOMETHING different.

Linux is great. Ubuntu, Mint, Kubuntu, Slackware, and so much more. You can buy a laptop with Linux on it pre-installed, any version of Linux you choose and you can buy a Windows license and use that if you like. Those laptops or desktops are usually more expensive with lower specs until you spend a lot of money. Or you can buy a Windows laptop for a lot less than Apple or a pre-configure Linux laptop. Then you can install Linux IF most of the laptop hardware is compatible and that can be very tricky.

The point is if you want the ability to install your own operating system then you need to choose something COMPLETELY different from Apple. Period. Full Stop.
 
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I agreed with you until the end.
That last point though IS the point. It only applies and it only fits a proportion of buyers/users/consumers, but it is a choice that segment of the market actually make. The person to whom I was responding appears to want to take that choice away from that segment and supplant his/her own instead. I am honestly puzzled why, and I am curious what their answer is.

I know yours, I've read what you've said here, and much of it I respect and have agreed with for reasons I have made clear. But if Apple have identified a market they can serve, and are meeting the needs of that market, I'm at a loss to understand why the needs of that market are not respected by those who are not in it.

It's a simple question. I'm curious to hear an answer. Or at least one that isn't 'I want...' or 'it should be...' or some other generalization.
 
Besides Justine I don't think anyone on this thread seriously thinks for one second about installing another OS on any Apple hardware.

Not sure if this happens around you, but I see iMac 5K's for sale all the time, purposely advertised with Windows installed on them.

They seem to sell better than just "old, no longer supported by Apple, Macs"
 
That last point though IS the point. It only applies and it only fits a proportion of buyers/users/consumers, but it is a choice that segment of the market actually make. The person to whom I was responding appears to want to take that choice away from that segment and supplant his/her own instead. I am honestly puzzled why, and I am curious what their answer is.

I know yours, I've read what you've said here, and much of it I respect and have agreed with for reasons I have made clear. But if Apple have identified a market they can serve, and are meeting the needs of that market, I'm at a loss to understand why the needs of that market are not respected by those who are not in it.

It's a simple question. I'm curious to hear an answer. Or at least one that isn't 'I want...' or 'it should be...' or some other generalization.
I look at it this way. Making hardware and software is profitable. However a lot of that depends on your capacity and ability to produce hardware as cheap as possible while retaining quality. Apple has had it very good up until now.

If they continue on the path they are on it will end with only one outcome. Apple is diminished as a brand. Why? Because their success is directly tied to China and the CCP. China and the CCP see Apple as a foreign competitor/adversary and will ultimately have to make a choice. Right now the money is good enough to keep things moving. When Huawei, Lenovo, Xiaomi, and other tech giants in China get enough domestic market share and worldwide brand recognition and start to directly compete on all fronts, PC, Tablet, Phone, Watch, etc. with Apple then what is going to happen? If the political climate further deteriorates and all indicators point that it is very possible it will and you have direct business competition then what happens to Apple's position in China? Will China start to sabotage manufacturing to cause enough customer dissatisfaction that people start to turn elsewhere?? Will they increase costs on Apple to a point it is not profitable? Will they just stop manufacturing?

Apple has bet all it's chips on Chinese Manufacturing. It has become extremely adept. We will not discuss how they got there because that is another thread and topic. The point being there is nowhere else in the world right now capable of the expertise and scale of manufacturing than in China. So if they decide to turn the screws against Apple they have nowhere to go. India, Vietnam and other countries are great but they can't yet equal China.

So what could Apple do to hedge the threat? They could open up to OEM's. It would cost them in the short run but it would immediately derisk Apple from the current position with the least cost and downside. They could have locks on OEM's so that they completely control the software and drivers. This would serve the entire Apple user base by starting to offer cheaper hardware alternatives, give Apple less dependance on other countries for their profit and hardware.

I am trying to answer your question as simply as I can, it is not about serving a certain group of people no matter how large or small it is about how does Apple move forward in the current environment. Obviously they don't need to do anything now and as you say it doesn't serve anyone but a niche group. BUT at a certain point coming soon within 5 years Apple could have it's hand forced by political situations. Do they start to prepare now and take a new direction by doing what Microsoft did? Or do they just find other factories outside of China and start to make that change BUT how do you shift manufacturing away from China without further deteriorating your position? You can't. So all you can do is make small changes that look big and then if things go south Apple is in a bad position. BUT if Apple made a switch to open up to OEM's and charge a fee for each device with MacOS then they would have two revenue streams and would be less dependent on making their own hardware and they could implement it any time they felt the threat was enough and it would not erode their position but give them leverage as they are now not as dependent on hardware as a sole major profit center.

I don't know if all that makes any sense but that is my answer.
 
Not sure if this happens around you, but I see iMac 5K's for sale all the time, purposely advertised with Windows installed on them.

They seem to sell better than just "old, no longer supported by Apple, Macs"
That is not what I consider Apple hardware any more. Sure you can Intel Macs/MacBooks for cheap and they can have other software easily added which is really cool. But I can't use those old Intel chips. I like M series. So there is only virtualization which actually works pretty good and probably better for some things than the Intel Macs.

I have no interest in running WIndows on a Mac. I much prefer having a cheap Windows laptop and a nice Mac if I need to run Windows and MacOS is my primary environment.

iMac 5KK's are great but I bet the hardware can barely run that monitor. Lol
 
That is not what I consider Apple hardware any more.

Why?

It either is or isn't Apple hardware
It doesn't become Apple hardware only when running Apple software

Anyhow, I totally disagree about the "old Intel chips", but to each our own

My 8700k flies through Sonoma
 
I used the word borderline, meaning close to, but not over the line ... That means it is is legal, in terms of actual law, not that it is right...

The fact is, phones and laptops and this is my thought, laptops and phones should be OS agnostic, as cars are with regards petrol/spark plugs, oils, tyres... You cannot buy cars that only run on a certain brand of fuel, that would be insane..

The fact that iphones run only iOS, is a result of a problem in the law, not a technical issue...

I just had a really great thought....

WWDC why? Why does Apple/Tim even have a keynote? What is the point of announcing iOS 17/18 etc..You know that as Apple you are forced to install it, you have no choice, within a very short time, your phone will be "bricked" through obsolete operating systems...

So this is what I think. The keynote that is used to announce the new iOS/Mac OS, is pointless, it serves no usefulness.. A complete waste of time, as you are mandated to use it, however it would be useful if it was used to convince you to install it on Apple hardware, in a market competing against other phones for iOS v Android, or MacOS v Win11 for laptops, and iPadOS v Android for tablets.

For a very long time, I wondered what the point of the keynote was, and the timing, it never made sense to announce it months before publication, when you have no choice, you have to install it, if you want the benefit...

Someone mentioned predatory pricing, about ipads, if Apple started to sell ipad pro for $199, but Apple is doing this with regards to hardware.. if you want this sexy feature, buy this laptop/ipad..

You see this with fcp for ipad, if you want a certain feature, you are forced to buy the expensive ipad.. Apple made no attempt to run fcp for ipad on older cheaper phones and ipads..

That is the problem I have.. Apple is abusing, unethically, legal yes, morally no..
 
Anyhow, I totally disagree about the "old Intel chips", but to each our own
Many have got that feeling with their iMacs literally agonizing with APFS on their Fusion drives.
We will never know wether it was intentional from Apple to bridle that way their Intel hardware, I love it: peope are selling their Intel iMacs as if it were stinky fish and it's so easy to fix...
 
Why?

It either is or isn't Apple hardware
It doesn't become Apple hardware only when running Apple software

Anyhow, I totally disagree about the "old Intel chips", but to each our own

My 8700k flies through Sonoma
I am not saying they are bad just obsolete. If you like obsolete hardware and running it that is cool. I can appreciate the effort and that people want to keep their devices going as long as they can. I just like having the latest supported release of MacOS.

I was giving my opinion and in my opinion Intel for Apple is ancient history just like with PowerPC they didn't take long to jettison a ton of users pretty fast. They are taking there time with Intel. But Apple doesn't want MacOS running on x86 because it exposes them to Hackintosh whereas with m series I don't see it every being possible except maybe with Qualcomm chips running Windows on arm....But x86 is out.

But if you have an Intel Mac and like it that is great. Use it as long as possible is what I would say. I tried with PowerPC. Apple really pissed me off with PowerPC but that is another story entirely.
 
Many have got that feeling with their iMacs literally agonizing with APFS on their Fusion drives.
We will never know wether it was intentional from Apple to bridle that way their Intel hardware, I love it: peope are selling their Intel iMacs as if it were stinky fish and it's so easy to fix...
If you can get a great device super cheap and get it working the way you like then Kudos to you!
 
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