Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[drrich2]

This is something I never really could understand, maybe Steve had a stroke or a serious mental health moment, but if you want to go thermonuclear war, then you allow your product on every device known, phones, tablets, desktops/laptops/servers/thumb drives, dvd drives, it runs GPS units, in car radio.. You flood to the point of drown any competitor, not build a wall a google number of bricks tall.. That is cowardice and pathetic...It gifts a win to Android...

To further enhance cowardice and incompetence, you then build 3 operating systems..

It's neither cowardice nor incompetence, it's a different business model. Apple isn't about being everywhere doing everything. They enter a pre-existing, developed market (e.g.: personal computers, portable music players, personal digital assistants, cell phones, watches) and deliver an evolved, aesthetically superior (to some people) experience (often at a premium price). The Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch all follow this playbook.

They then leverage their offerings into what's variously been called an 'ecosystem' or 'walled garden,' giving them substantial control over what happens, bringing in serious profits and limiting the permutations they have to deal with. Even when they do this well, they run into hassles - the Music industry benefited from the iTunes model but griped about pricing restrictions limiting their flexibility to wring maximum profit out of customers, GM decided to exclude CarPlay from some vehicles so GM can bring in a 'walled garden' approach and get you into subscriptions, from what I understand.

Historically, a common benefit of the Mac platform was claimed to be less chance of incompatibility/glitchiness vs. Windows, and a Windows PC defender would counter that that was Windows had to deal with a huge, often unpredictable array of hardware configurations with a staggering variety of components and sources vs. what the Mac offers. But that misses the point. The end user doesn't care why one may be more stable than the other, only that it is.

It's also hard to compete with an 'everything, everywhere' mentality, if the competition can simply copy everything you do. IBM brought us PCs, but look around...how many desktop PCs are IBM-brand? IBM saw Windows as a transitional stage and wanted to migrate further to an OS called OS/2, IIRC, and Microsoft didn't want to let go of their Windows cash cow...so what runs on most PCs today? Windows is a household word, and OS/2 a historical footnote.

For practical purposes, Android IS iOS run the way you advocate. And it's got the benefits and drawbacks that go with that.

In the past, it's been noted Apple is a hardware company - they use their OS and online offerings/services to sell hardware. Letting their MacOS and iOS run on 3rd party hardware would be a very different business approach. If it were that superior, Android ought to have driven iOS into extinction by now, yet here we are.

Building 3 operating systems isn't cowardice or incompetence. Trying to shoe-horn the OS approach for one device onto another device with a different use style can make for problems. Remember when Microsoft got enamored of tiles, and decided it was too good to keep for Windows Phone, it needed to be on Windows, too? Yuck!

While I wish my iPad Pro could run Mac OS app.s, too (mainly because of the personal finance software I use), at the end of the day, I don't think the iPad needs to operate on Mac OS, or that my iMac needs touch screen capability.

Apple is not competing against M/soft, they don't need to, but are in the mobile phone space.. But not with tablets, as Android tablets are just dire.. Again, I just don't get the lack of a paid OS for tablets apart from ipads..

Microsoft so heavily dominates the non-Mac PC market that it's practically synonymous with it, and given the post that started this thread and multiple posts throughout, yes, Apple does compete against Microsoft.

Apple's (apparently extremely profitable) business model for delivering products (with a large, loyal following despite all the complaints) is different than Microsoft's. Both are different from Google's or FaceBook's.

None of this is about a stroke, serious mental illness moment, cowardice or incompetence. Apple is an enormously profitable, prestigious company with hordes of customers. Their business model is neither perfect nor optimal for every scenario, but they are a household word.

P.S.: Decades ago, I had a couple of Mac clones from PowerComputing (yeah, not Hacintoshes!). I went back and forth between Macs and PCs; now I prefer the Mac. I intensely resent their RAM and SSD upgrade pricing, and restricting iPhone and iPad app assess to their own app. store is very controversial. I bought a Windows notebook for our kid because it made more sense for her use case.

 

[chmania]

Apple is an enormously profitable, prestigious company with hordes of customers. Their business model is neither perfect nor optimal for every scenario, but they are a household word.

Mostly in the US, probably.
I suppose Windows is also a household name there.
In the world outside the US, when it comes to personal computers, it is Windows. When it comes to mobile phones, it is Android. When it comes to tablets, well who uses tablets these days? It is the phone, and it is Android.

 

[LeeW]

I bought a new MBP a while back, but I'm just not feeling it. I have gotten so used to the iPad as a portable device that I took the MBP back to the store today.

And returned with this

 

[drrich2]

In the world outside the US, when it comes to personal computers, it is Windows. When it comes to mobile phones, it is Android. When it comes to tablets, well who uses tablets these days? It is the phone, and it is Android.

Apple is still a substantial player, particularly with the iPhone. That said, a little nuance applies...

1.) When you compare iOS to Android, we're comparing Apple to Android product makers combined.

2.) Apple isn't necessarily focused on the largest number of products. In the U.S., for example, the Toyota Corolla and Camry might be compared to a couple of mainstream BMW models. They're all cars and serve similar functions (e.g.: drive from point A to point B, same speed limits). That said, they're not the same experience. I'd expect to see more of the Toyotas on the road, but that's no shame to BMW.

What's best if a matter of opinion. I'd buy a Corolla over a BMW or Mercedes, but many would buy the latter.

Not sure about the market outside the U.S., but quite a number of people use tablets. Our kid is practically grafted to her iPad Mini, and my 11" iPad Pro sees decent use.

 

[chmania]

Apple is still a substantial player, particularly with the iPhone. That said, a little nuance applies...

1.) When you compare iOS to Android, we're comparing Apple to Android product makers combined.

2.) Apple isn't necessarily focused on the largest number of products. In the U.S., for example, the Toyota Corolla and Camry might be compared to a couple of mainstream BMW models. They're all cars and serve similar functions (e.g.: drive from point A to point B, same speed limits). That said, they're not the same experience. I'd expect to see more of the Toyotas on the road, but that's no shame to BMW.

What's best if a matter of opinion. I'd buy a Corolla over a BMW or Mercedes, but many would buy the latter.

Not sure about the market outside the U.S., but quite a number of people use tablets. Our kid is practically grafted to her iPad Mini, and my 11" iPad Pro sees decent use.

That's why I said there a whole world outside the US, and that world usually uses Windows as the computer OS, and Android as the phone. Here's an interesting video, I just found. The same manufacturer made an app called Lenovo Freestyle, which makes a Lenovo tablet to become an external touch enabled monitor for a Windows laptop, any Windows laptop. I was looking for a Youtube video on that app, I found this video. Today, in the shop I saw a whole lot of Lenovo tablets, up to 14". Of course, there were Oppo, Xiaomi, Huawei, Samsung and the whole lot.

Bit later, I found a Lenovo Freestyle video, actually shorts.

 

[drrich2]

Here's an interesting video, I just found.

A good example of the philosophical differences. A Windows notebook/Android tablet combo. with trade-offs involved, serving a small niche amongst a very large, diverse market.

Apple puts a lot of effort into refined (e.g.: fewer trade-offs) single function (e.g.: a notebook or a tablet, not both) devices for a smaller, much less diverse market.

Windows heavily predominates in the U.S., but MacBooks are a common sight. Both iOS and Android are common here.

 

[chmania]

A good example of the philosophical differences. A Windows notebook/Android tablet combo. with trade-offs involved, serving a small niche amongst a very large, diverse market.

Apple puts a lot of effort into refined (e.g.: fewer trade-offs) single function (e.g.: a notebook or a tablet, not both) devices for a smaller, much less diverse market.

It is interesting what Lenovo is doing, what Apple still cannot do. Sure, even MS cannot do (no mobile OS nowadays). Then Oppo, Xiaomi, Huawei etc would move in that area too. We are in for a treat.

Windows heavily predominates in the U.S., but MacBooks are a common sight. Both iOS and Android are common here.

In the outside world, when you go to a computer shop, or computer specific section of a shop, it is full of Windows laptops and Android phones and tablets from a whole gama of manufacturers, of course, Apple devices are there too, but that takes about 2-3% of the area.

 

[Technerd108]

You appear to have great wisdom Technerd108.
I am curious if you have an opinion on running Linux apps inside Chrome OS? I would want to run Firefox versus Chrome.
It would be easier than running Linux. I've tried Linux on and off since Ubuntu 08.04. I sent for a free CD. Remember CDs?
I do feel there are some decent Chromebooks in the $500+ price range.
I follow Chrome Unboxed which is helpful to a degree but not on the tech side.

I don't know about wisdom, more about hitting my head against the wall so many times it forced me to learn. I have Autism and ADHD so I hyper focus on subjects I am interested in which has given a lot of knowledge over the years. Most people think I am boring when I talk because I go way too deep into a subject. LOL

I actually ended up getting an Acer cheap Chromebook just for testing.

The reason I even consider a Chromebook is because it is essentially a profit driven maintained Linux distro. It is a light Linux and doesn't have full Linux desktop but ChromeOS has matured to the point it is usable for most people. In my opinion CHromeOS is more secure than desktop Linux.

I honestly think you should try a Chromebook just to run CHromeOS. Why do you hate Chrome Browser? If it has to do with privacy then I don't think any browser is truly more private.

In terms of Chromebooks my biggest issues is screens and specs. Most of the time these are gimped for no reason. If I could get an Asus 14" OLED 2023 or 2024 model with Chrome OS for the $999 list or $799 sale price I would buy it in a heartbeat. Instead all you get are 250 nit 45% NTSC lcd screens which truly suck, EMMC?? WTF!! it is 2024! And ****** processor choices or gimped processors made for ChromeBooks-Looking at you AMD! So at the moment the hardware is not up to par and Google should do something but who knows if they even care.

So If you can live with a Chromebook plus for around $400-$500 for now might be the sweet spot. Some Acer Model's around $700 are nice but suffer from poor sound, plastic and heavy build but at least it has a nice screen.

Until Chromebooks with decent specs can be had in the $400-$700 range most people will just but a Window's laptop.

Running Linux on a Chromebook runs very well. You have a full blown Ubuntu desktop BUT you could spend less and get more with a Windows laptop and just put Linux on it or dual boot. I just can't recommend Chromebooks for anyone just based on value and experience. I really like ChromeOS and the idea behind CHromebooks but I just feel the OEM's are still dragging their feet. If we would see some decent specs for a decent price then I would recommend them but for now I would't even recommend to kids as I think a cheap Windows laptop would serve them better.

For people who are very computer illiterate ChromeBooks are a good solution but for everyone else they just aren't there yet hardware wise. Once one of these OEM's figures out how to build a premium design and spec Chromebook for a decent price and a cheap model with decent specs they are always going to be a niche product. But the potential for greatness is there. Google needs to get off their asses and push the segment forward but I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

 

[rm5]

Okay, I think I'll weigh in on this a little with my own thoughts, hope you don't mind...

I grew up using Macs, and I continue to use them. They work well, and I use two of them, an M1 MacBook Air and a 2019 iMac. I love them—they're plenty fast and work for me. I like how everything syncs between devices (from both OneDrive and iCloud). The battery of my 3-and-a-half-year-old MacBook Air still lasts all day, too. So for all that, the Mac is great!

The issue I have with Macs is the lack of upgradability. The last truly upgradable Mac was the 5,1 Mac Pro, and I mained one for a few months in 2023, actually. The old X58 chipset made the machine almost unusable in Logic though (with many tracks), and the GPU would never be fully utilized due to PCIe 2.0 and an EXTREME bottleneck with the slow and outdated CPU. So can't really use one of those. I see people all the time in Discord servers and YouTube videos say, "I just added 10 TB of storage and two 1 TB NVMe drives to my PC." Honestly, I really wish I could do that.

And not to mention Apple's RIDICULOUS RAM and storage upgrade prices!

I like the simplicity of the Mac, but I'd be really happy with a PC, too. The only Apple device I really need is an iPhone, because of iMessage—I have all my contacts stored there, and it would be very annoying—to me and all the people in my contacts—if I had to create new text threads, etc. on an Android phone.

Having an @icloud.com email address is not that much of an issue, because I use Outlook anyway. An office suite isn't an issue because I use MS Office.

Literally the ONLY reason why I'm using a Mac is because of Logic Pro. That's it.

 

[drrich2]

It is interesting what Lenovo is doing, what Apple still cannot do.

It's not can't, it's chooses not to. Apple would rather sell us an iPad and a MacBook, and for each to provide a refined experience as a tablet or a notebook, not a trade-off experience of both. I'm not saying that is or isn't better, it just reflects their approach.

That's not to say Apple doesn't make trade-offs, but they do so for different reasons. Would the iMac have been better with a more powerful albeit hotter processor and easier access to upgrade internals at the expense of being a good deal thicker? I think so, but Apple evidently didn't. One YouTube reviewer wished Apple would offer a Mac Studio ramped up to make some noise, thinking it might be significantly more powerful and that's a trade-off some users would take...but Apple doesn't.

I'm not saying Apple's (or the Windows PC) approach is superior, I'm just saying it's deliberately different and there is logical reasoning behind that, and the pro.s and con.s it offers. Technically-adept tinkerers who enjoy messing with the minutia or heavily customizing settings, or building their own rigs, will likely go the PC route (Windows or Linus). People who don't like Apple's 'walled garden' often choose Android. And yet the Apple approach continues to appeal to many of us.

Except those ridiculous RAM and SSD upgrade charges. And I wish the Studio had a 2nd SSD drive bay for user-upgradability. Despite that, here I am on Mac Rumors...

 

[chmania]

It's not can't, it's chooses not to.

When someone can't, they usually say they choose not to...

 

[drrich2]

When someone can't, they usually say they choose not to...

With Apple's money and resources, they likely 'can,' but that doesn't make it wise. They've chosen to accomplish a smaller number of things to a degree of excellence (variable and debatable) rather than risk diffusing their focus and quality across a broad range. In the case you mentioned, making a notebook with a detachable 'screen' that becomes a tablet...okay, could Apple make a MacBook with a built-in detachable iPad for a 'screen?' Yes, I think so. And on the surface of it, that sounds neat. But...

My iPad Pro and iPhone Pro Max are both in Otter Box brand protective cases. I tend to aim for the best 'armor' I can reasonably get. I imagine with a detachable setup, the case might get in the way? So my 'tablet' wouldn't have as much protection. Trade-offs.

And given Apple's approach to products and their reputation, putting out a product that has trade-offs and gets labeled 'Jack of all trades, master of none' could backfire.

Of course, some of what we see in the Windows PC and Android worlds happens because so many companies are involved and one decided to find a niche to excel in. Even so, they don't always cover the needed bases. It's my understanding a big part of why Microsoft got into making the Surface line was dissatisfaction with what the hardware makers were turning out, and a desire to show them how it could be done. They sort of 'pulled an Apple.'

Getting back to the original thread topic, I suppose this goes to show some of the pro.s and con.s he'll get going with Windows and Android.

 

[Technerd108]

Okay, I think I'll weigh in on this a little with my own thoughts, hope you don't mind...

I grew up using Macs, and I continue to use them. They work well, and I use two of them, an M1 MacBook Air and a 2019 iMac. I love them—they're plenty fast and work for me. I like how everything syncs between devices (from both OneDrive and iCloud). The battery of my 3-and-a-half-year-old MacBook Air still lasts all day, too. So for all that, the Mac is great!

The issue I have with Macs is the lack of upgradability. The last truly upgradable Mac was the 5,1 Mac Pro, and I mained one for a few months in 2023, actually. The old X58 chipset made the machine almost unusable in Logic though (with many tracks), and the GPU would never be fully utilized due to PCIe 2.0 and an EXTREME bottleneck with the slow and outdated CPU. So can't really use one of those. I see people all the time in Discord servers and YouTube videos say, "I just added 10 TB of storage and two 1 TB NVMe drives to my PC." Honestly, I really wish I could do that.

And not to mention Apple's RIDICULOUS RAM and storage upgrade prices!

I like the simplicity of the Mac, but I'd be really happy with a PC, too. The only Apple device I really need is an iPhone, because of iMessage—I have all my contacts stored there, and it would be very annoying—to me and all the people in my contacts—if I had to create new text threads, etc. on an Android phone.

Having an @icloud.com email address is not that much of an issue, because I use Outlook anyway. An office suite isn't an issue because I use MS Office.

Literally the ONLY reason why I'm using a Mac is because of Logic Pro. That's it.

Ridiculous ram charges and ssd upgrades are not the issue in my opinion. I generally think when compared to upper end PC Mac's are competitive, expensive but as long as you don't upgrade too much they are within Dell XPS pricing. People who try to future proof by upgrading the ram to max and ssd to max or near it are throwing their money away unless they need it for a business use and then it is a business expense that pays for itself over time.

What my issue is not just that comparatively speaking specs cost more which does suck, but more so the lock in and forced incompatibility with other platforms, messaging, etc. Also the quality of the software in iOS and MacOS has been much more bug ridden and a lot of the new features are just borrowed from another platform. I don't like the direction Apple is taking MacOS - specially in regard to settings menus. I would like to own an Android phone and an iPad and Mac and they all work the same as my iPhone and doesn't bork my entire system if I want to use an s24U for example instead of an iPhone. It renders all the benefits of owning Apple products with one change. Apple makes it that way to force you back and they really don't need to do that and they would sell more devices if they made them and the software and apps cross platform. But they never will because it is their business model to stay the same. It is working. So for now until the market forces Apple to change I am outside of the platform.

It doesn't mean I hate iOS, MacOS, or any Apple product(maybe except for the vr glasses, lol). I love Apple products and I generally like the software with a few caveats. But for me to continue to complain about these things and take no action seemed rather hypocritical. So I made a change. Not to say I hate Apple but rather that with market pressure, i.e. less cash they will change their ways. Apple is in the business of selling hardware and as much of it as often as possible. on top of that, the business model forces people to spend as much as possible at point of purchase further extracting more money. If you think any of their decisions are related to the user experience, that is mostly a way to keep people and justify the lock in. I think Apple with all of it's money should start acting more ethically. They have made all the profit and now it is time to start making a change. It will take a long time and maybe never happen. Apple doesn't care about ethics as much as they act like they do and I would say that equally for corporations not just Apple, some are just less a holes about it.

 

[drrich2]

the lock in and forced incompatibility with other platforms, messaging, etc.

Android and iPhone users can message each other. If the experience is better iPhone-to-iPhone, that's just business for Apple. What are you specifically trying to do that cannot be done with the Android phone?

I would like to own an Android phone and an iPad and Mac and they all work the same as my iPhone and doesn't bork my entire system if I want to use an s24U for example instead of an iPhone.

It's understandable you would want that, but why would Apple help people buying competing products have the same quality experience? They want to sell you an iPhone. If you choose an iPhone, you get some value-added functionality in an Apple ecosystem.

Apple makes it that way to force you back and they really don't need to do that and they would sell more devices if they made them and the software and apps cross platform.

Apple makes a lot of money selling hardware. They are not simply a software company. Making more software and app.s cross-platform would undercut the drive to buy their hardware, including paying those high-priced RAM and SSD upgrade costs.

So they might sell fewer, not more, devices. They'd also need to develop for a much larger range of device configurations, which is a hassle.

And on a competing hardware platform such as Android or Windows PCs, what can Apple really do that another company can't do as well?

Consider that we already have other companies (e.g.: Microsoft with Windows, Google with Android) doing things the way you want, and while many people go that route, many continue to make Apple a very wealthy company. Why pressure Apple to act like Microsoft and Google when you already have that? Some of the excellence found in the Apple ecosystem probably results from it being the Apple ecosystem. It's not right for everyone, but maybe it should continue to exist.

 

[Ludatyk]

Android and iPhone users can message each other. If the experience is better iPhone-to-iPhone, that's just business for Apple.

The truth is... back then, when Apple applied this method, it was perfectly okay. Their market share made it a nonissue, fast forward to today... it's a problem.

We are at the mercy of two platforms and in the US where SMS is such a primary way of communicating... Apple has leverage that to its advantage (major kudos!). But the thing is, Android users are not asking for some iMessage cross-platform feature... but adopt RCS.

RCS has been in development for years while Apple refused to take it seriously and I get it... not adopting the protocol helps to keep the status quo. But on the flip side, Apple being such a proponent of privacy and security... one would think Apple would adopt RCS in an effort to have secure message between iPhone-to-iPhone and iPhone-to-Android.

And I'm fully aware that RCS is coming this year, but it shouldn't have taken this long to begin with.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

It is interesting what Lenovo is doing, what Apple still cannot do. Sure, even MS cannot do (no mobile OS nowadays). Then Oppo, Xiaomi, Huawei etc would move in that area too. We are in for a treat.

In the outside world, when you go to a computer shop, or computer specific section of a shop, it is full of Windows laptops and Android phones and tablets from a whole gama of manufacturers, of course, Apple devices are there too, but that takes about 2-3% of the area.

Except that you can use your iPad as an external monitor for Mac, so....maybe I misunderstood?

 

[jimimac71]

I see a similarity to Tesla only charging stations.
I'm in California and Tesla is finally deciding to play well with others. Kinda hate to compare Tim Cook and Elon Musk.
Don't force my hand Timbo.

 

[drrich2]

But the thing is, Android users are not asking for some iMessage cross-platform feature... but adopt RCS.

RCS has been in development for years while Apple refused to take it seriously and I get it... not adopting the protocol helps to keep the status quo. But on the flip side, Apple being such a proponent of privacy and security... one would think Apple would adopt RCS in an effort to have secure message between iPhone-to-iPhone and iPhone-to-Android.

The company doesn't want to make a competitor product work better with their system and thus a more viable option to its users. If Apple didn't need RCS and it just helped people who chose competitor products over its own, and not using it encourage more people to buy iPhones, well...

A number of companies would like to do these things; Apple has simply proven good at it. GM's effort to exclude Car Play and push their own car operating system is one example. How many products have we seen where we're strongly encouraged to use 'only genuine <insert brand hoping to make more money> parts?' To the point some ink jet printers have taken steps to block use of 3rd party ink refills, etc...

The truth is... back then, when Apple applied this method, it was perfectly okay. Their market share made it a nonissue, fast forward to today... it's a problem.

But it wasn't Apple's problem. And a follow up question is...just how big of a problem is it? People can text. I hear some media may not be as high of a quality, but it's not like they couldn't text. Just how big of a problem is this situation?

For years, when Mac software lacked features of Windows versions and Mac users felt like 2nd class citizens, they didn't get a lot of sympathy. The attitude seemed to be - 'You could use Windows and you chose Mac.'

 

[Ludatyk]

The company doesn't want to make a competitor product work better with their system and thus a more viable option to its users. If Apple didn't need RCS and it just helped people who chose competitor products over its own, and not using it encourage more people to buy iPhones, well...

Make a competitor product work better with their system? Huh? It’s just protocol that benefits everyone involved… including iPhone users.

iPhone users will still be able to take advantage of iMessage features exclusively… but now with RCS they will have less concern with sending compressed photos/videos and insecure messages to Android users. I don’t see the point in defending that?

GM's effort to exclude Car Play and push their own car operating system is one example. How many products have we seen where we're strongly encouraged to use 'only genuine <insert brand hoping to make more money> parts?' To the point some ink jet printers have taken steps to block use of 3rd party ink refills, etc...

I don’t see how that has anything to do with the topic I’m discussing.

But it wasn't Apple's problem. And a follow up question is...just how big of a problem is it? People can text. I hear some media may not be as high of a quality, but it's not like they couldn't text. Just how big of a problem is this situation?

The problem it has reached… peer pressure among kids (or teenagers), ”if they don’t have an iPhone, don’t expect any communication.” And in the dating world, some folks immediately disqualify a potential partner based off not having a iPhone (fully aware it’s strange).

 

[drrich2]

Make a competitor product work better with their system? Huh? It’s just protocol that benefits everyone involved… including iPhone users.

But it reduces the pressure to use iPhones. This is one of those 'Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit' issues. I see your point, I'm just saying it may not have made good strategic sense for Apple at the time.

I don’t see how that has anything to do with the topic I’m discussing.

It's a bit tangentially related. My point was other companies often employ similar self-serving exclusivity strategies to enrich themselves. Apple seems to get vilified for it more lately.

The problem it has reached… peer pressure among kids (or teenagers), ”if they don’t have an iPhone, don’t expect any communication.” And in the dating world, some folks immediately disqualify a potential partner based off not having a iPhone (fully aware it’s strange).

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like the iPhone is in effect on par with wearing prestigious brand clothing; a status symbol affecting social rank. I would think Apple might like to have that advantage. As for the dating thing, wow. Not sure the pettiness of dubious romantic options should drive corporate policy.

I get why non-iPhone users wanted Apple to adopt it. I'm just saying Apple may've had good business reasons not to for so long.

 

[chmania]

With Apple's money and resources, they likely 'can,' but that doesn't make it wise.

Money and resources don't say anything about the ability. Apple has too many hands in the pot, too many OSs.

Except that you can use your iPad as an external monitor for Mac, so....maybe I misunderstood?

ViewSonic created a driver for its monitor to work with touch with any Mac. Apple doesn't have such a driver for any external monitor.

The company doesn't want to make a competitor product work better with their system and thus a more viable option to its users.

Interesting why MS is doing just that -- make a competitor product work better -- and having more market share and success in the (outside) world. The majority of the governments, and the business in the world works only on Windows machines.

 

[chmania]

I actually ended up getting an Acer cheap Chromebook just for testing.

The reason I even consider a Chromebook is because it is essentially a profit driven maintained Linux distro. It is a light Linux and doesn't have full Linux desktop but ChromeOS has matured to the point it is usable for most people.

You might have a go at installing ChromeOS in your Windows laptop in dual boot mode. You'd get ChromeOS running in a high spec device. Only, you have to find the way how to dual boot, as that guy had replaced Windows.

 

[rin67630]

If you choose an iPhone, you get some value-added functionality in an Apple ecosystem.

...but at the same time you largely cut yourself from Androids users and have to accept Apple's restrictions that Android users don't experience: they can copy their music and Photos freely, just if it were an USB drive, extend their memory with SD cards...

 

[drrich2]

they can copy their music and Photos freely, just if it were an USB drive

Explain the thing about copying photos freely, please. I'm not challenging your point, I just don't know what you're referencing. I usually do my photo copying on my iMac anyway. I've never had trouble texting or e-mailing a photo from my iPhone, though granted I mostly deal with iOS users.

 

[jimimac71]

I don't know about wisdom, more about hitting my head against the wall so many times it forced me to learn. I have Autism and ADHD so I hyper focus on subjects I am interested in which has given a lot of knowledge over the years. Most people think I am boring when I talk because I go way too deep into a subject. LOL

I actually ended up getting an Acer cheap Chromebook just for testing.

The reason I even consider a Chromebook is because it is essentially a profit driven maintained Linux distro. It is a light Linux and doesn't have full Linux desktop but ChromeOS has matured to the point it is usable for most people. In my opinion CHromeOS is more secure than desktop Linux.

I honestly think you should try a Chromebook just to run CHromeOS. Why do you hate Chrome Browser? If it has to do with privacy then I don't think any browser is truly more private.

In terms of Chromebooks my biggest issues is screens and specs. Most of the time these are gimped for no reason. If I could get an Asus 14" OLED 2023 or 2024 model with Chrome OS for the $999 list or $799 sale price I would buy it in a heartbeat. Instead all you get are 250 nit 45% NTSC lcd screens which truly suck, EMMC?? WTF!! it is 2024! And ****** processor choices or gimped processors made for ChromeBooks-Looking at you AMD! So at the moment the hardware is not up to par and Google should do something but who knows if they even care.

So If you can live with a Chromebook plus for around $400-$500 for now might be the sweet spot. Some Acer Model's around $700 are nice but suffer from poor sound, plastic and heavy build but at least it has a nice screen.

Until Chromebooks with decent specs can be had in the $400-$700 range most people will just but a Window's laptop.

Running Linux on a Chromebook runs very well. You have a full blown Ubuntu desktop BUT you could spend less and get more with a Windows laptop and just put Linux on it or dual boot. I just can't recommend Chromebooks for anyone just based on value and experience. I really like ChromeOS and the idea behind CHromebooks but I just feel the OEM's are still dragging their feet. If we would see some decent specs for a decent price then I would recommend them but for now I would't even recommend to kids as I think a cheap Windows laptop would serve them better.

For people who are very computer illiterate ChromeBooks are a good solution but for everyone else they just aren't there yet hardware wise. Once one of these OEM's figures out how to build a premium design and spec Chromebook for a decent price and a cheap model with decent specs they are always going to be a niche product. But the potential for greatness is there. Google needs to get off their asses and push the segment forward but I don't have a lot of faith in that happening.

I don't hate the Chrome browser, just like Firefox more. YouTube doesn't have an auto-play toggle on Chrome but does on Firefox. I can erase history easier with Firefox and I just like it more.
I am struggling with my passwords. I use to have one for everything but if you forget now, most everyone forces you to make a new one versus just remind you by email.
I put passwords into Chrome and they didn't stay. I think Firefox is better that way.
Yes, I should learn how to make a spreadsheet or at least a text document with my usernames and passwords.
As for audio in any laptop or even desktop, it is physics. You don't get bass without moving air and tiny speakers can't do that. I almost never use audio in my tablets. I have a small ZVOX sound bar for my PC.
I agree that many Chromebooks are cheap for the reasons you mention.
It is really annoying how there is one Chromebase from HP and that's it. The product was well viewed by Chrome Unboxed in the beginning but the reviews are not as good now. It costs too much for what you get.
The ASUS Chromebox products are over priced too. I've never been a fan of Acer.
I know few people who've had good experiences with HP including me.
Love my singing computer. Wait for it. A-Dell.
Windows is falling in line with Apple, forcing things to happen their way.
I can't remove Edge from Windows 10. I did remove the Outlook app as it would open all on it's own.
I use the MSN website and it is sending me more targeted ads than Google can imagine.
I left the MS Rewards program as using Edge was a requirement and the AI BS is miserable at best.
If I open a link from my Outlook email, it opens Edge and I don't think there is a fix for that.
Apple has been the way they are for a long time. Don't dare to open the box. That is why they used SCSI.
I am pleased with how people are treating this thread and even agreeing with you Technerd108.
Many years ago, the AppleInsider forum treated me poorly. If you didn't love Apple you were a troll.
Going back to 2007, my 20 inch iMac (first aluminum/second Intel) is a Core 2 Duo at 2.0 GHz.
The HD is 250 GB I think, which is becoming a new normal. The biggest laugh of all, at $1100 it had ONE GB RAM. An old buddy of mine had the 24 inch and it came with 2 GB (1+1).
He upgraded to 4 GB (2+2) and dusted off the other RAM and sent it to me.
Changing the RAM in that iMac is easy. Didn't need a guitar pick, just a screwdriver.
You cannot use Apple News on anything but Apple. That's just the beginning of what they don't allow.
While I respected Steve Jobs, and miss him, his way was no better.
I do think Tim Cook is worse. With all that money it really is time to give back to the people who made it happen. Linux might be the only way to avoid greed.
Microsoft/Apple/Google/Amazon! None are satisfied with what they have.
For me, money is a major consideration. Technerd108 knows me only too well.
I can get the paperboy to cash my Social Security check. HA!
EDIT: In addition to the 32/64-bit DVDs for Linux Mint Debian Edition, I also ordered a 64-bit thumb drive.
I just took the live USB stick for a spin.
Good enough for me. I mostly am not nuts over the mouse pointer selection. Too small or too big, but I've always run into that with Linux. Bumping the text up to 1.2 in Accessibility works great.
Something tells the included software is all I need.