Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[boiserunner]

A ton of us really longtime Apple users resonate with the OP

You're not truly a long-time Apple user if you're just now thinking their products are expensive and closed. 😆

 

[turbineseaplane]

You're not truly a long-time Apple user if you're just now thinking their products are expensive and closed. 😆

It maybe just crossed over a threshold of irritation in my advancing age

 

[Technerd108]

You're not truly a long-time Apple user if you're just now thinking their products are expensive and closed. 😆

Didn't say that did I? Said I reached a breaking point.

Other people said the same thing.

Is there a difference??

 

[eltoslightfoot]

yep. And so could anyone that stole your laptop… repurpose your computer which statistically speaking is more likely than a modern SSD failing.

Give me that worry back. I had a fully encrypted computer. With a user replaceable drive. And it is completely possible to have both.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

You're not truly a long-time Apple user if you're just now thinking their products are expensive and closed. 😆

I hate to be that guy, but YEAH actually. They have always allowed user replaceable RAM and SSDs for a long time. It really was even possible in the Mac Minis up until 2018. Even the laptops up until like 2015...which isn't that long ago.

That, and the upgrade prices were never quite this far apart from Windows.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Solid choice.

I was also thinking of a Mac mini setup with m3 when released but you can't upgrade the ssd or ram on a desktop anymore. I get the laptop. There are trade offs. I still think ssd should be user replaceable for a number of reasons.

On a desktop I think Apple should use a chiplet design like AMD and now Intel and have the SOC with GPU but ram and ssd user replaceable and upgradeable. Intel and AMD can do it with various tech and so could Apple achieve the same speeds and offer customers a longer usable lifespan. If Apple cares about the environment then they could and should figure out a way to use an SOC with user replaceable parts.

They can do what they want with the laptop because of space, battery and thermals which are constraints you just don't have on a desktop unless it is designed for form over function.

But the way things are now I don't know who would buy a desktop Mac unless they treat it like a laptop and think of it as disposable rather than repairable which is the biggest trick of Apple silicon so far.

That being said modern SOC are very reliable for at least 5-10 years with low failure rates. So it is very unlikely that you will have a SOC in a MacBook fail to a state of inoperability but it is possible and pretty bad if it happens. Cloud backup in real time is probably the only protection then you either replace entire SOC in laptop and use backup with some possible data loss or buy a new one and restore the backup with the same results.

I am sure Apple might have data retrieval tool for a failed m chip if needed but who knows?

What's going to really be funny is if Snapdragon comes in and shows that you can have an extremely fast, efficient, and power sipping laptop without a SoC. Some vendors might even *gasp* allow user replaceable RAM and SSDs.

 

[maxoakland]

I agree and that’s why I stopped buying new Macs and now only buy used. It’s a form of protest because I don’t think they’re treating us, the customers, well at all

 

[cult hero]

I don’t like a lot of Apple’s business practices. But looking at the list…

Android (Google)
Microsoft

Yuck. I can see the argument being better going with some of the more indie brands and running Linux, the above two are heavily interested in vendor lock in as well and all sorts of unsavory practices.

Is there some OEM out there that makes modular laptops that are also high quality?

And the thought of going back to a plastic body laptop is just… no.

I mean I get it. But my whole household is full swing Apple and it just works. I prefer the OS by a wide margin. They’re the least bitter pill.

As an aside, the way iPads are gimped is really frustrating. A iPad Pro w/ macOS is basically the holy grail. But man, I’d settle for multiuser support. They kinda set it up to force you to have one “accessory” device per person. Bleh. Oh well. They all suck.

 

[Ctrlos]

I don't think call screening or text to speech that works or a smart assistant that can actually do things hands free are gimmicks but quality of life improvements. Since you don't experience them on iOS you wouldn't know. The moment I put my Sim in an iPhone from my Pixel I am reminded why I like call screening when I get a spam call.

App quality is good on Android but I do agree a lack of professionalism art creation software on Android sucks. I have family with iPad and Procteate and it is amazing what they can do and no Andriod app does everything it can do. But all platforms have their niche or software only available on it. It doesn't mean app quality sucks because there is no procreate in Android. It means Android needs either Procreate to port over and charge or another Android developer needs to create something similar. I think the demand is there.

Please with the data.

The best ecosystem I ever experienced was (genuinely) Windows 8, Windows Phone 8 and the Xbox 360. There were all sorts of little ways they all crossed over (for example sharing game saves between titles) that have since become the norm. AirPlay on the iPhone 4 was a lot more seamless with the Apple TV but the Xbox 360 was, well the Xbox 360. Not really a comparison.

I had good times with Android. But IMO I’m going to go Android I need to do it properly and get a Pixel which, as I say lacks a proper desktop sync for photos to back up to an external HDD. Something ever happens to my iCloud account I still have local copies of all my data on my Mac. Cloud services are not infallible. I love Samsung 90% of the time but just found that there were too many compromises to get it to work as seamlessly as my iPhone. I went all-in on Microsoft, even running a lovely Windows Phone launcher (Launcher10. Worth checking out) but the caveats were still there.

I wouldn‘t say Apple are the best company in all these areas but they are the one that suits my needs and I still retain access to 15 years worth of apps.

 

[Ctrlos]

As an aside, the way iPads are gimped is really frustrating. A iPad Pro w/ macOS is basically the holy grail.

Help me understand this one. Maybe a few times a year I wish it had Disk Utility but I can’t say I’ve ever really wanted my iPad Pro to be a Mac. What value does a touchscreen bring to Mac? Reading into the threads on here it often seems like people are annoyed they didn’t just buy a Mac.

Now Apple bringing back the 11” MacBook Air? That I could get behind.

 

[Technerd108]

Help me understand this one. Maybe a few times a year I wish it had Disk Utility but I can’t say I’ve ever really wanted my iPad Pro to be a Mac. What value does a touchscreen bring to Mac? Reading into the threads on here it often seems like people are annoyed they didn’t just buy a Mac.

Now Apple bringing back the 11” MacBook Air? That I could get behind.

I was just thinking about this the other day and the utility in WIndows. I don't use the touch screen a lot on Windows but when I do it is very handy, specially on a 16" laptop where you can just touch something with your finger instead of using the touchpad. zooming in is another one. using a pen. There are a lot of advantages. I am just listing a few.

 

[JustinePaula]

I loved Apple when Steve was around, all the quirky strange brave new ideas, then the ipod, iphone, the brave new Mac range, the plastic macbook for students, the aluminium for the parents, with the replaceable upgradeable parts, a real Pro"fessional" device..

Steve RIP, then along comes Tim, with about as much life as a lump of coal, truthfully coal has more value to Apple, he comes along and destroys Apple, the BTO, cannot upgrade garbage, the lack of investment into Apple Apps, killing of FCP7, then truly awful investment into Final Cut Pro, the killing of great apps, Apeture, Shake, amongst many..

Now we have awful laptops that really are not up to the task, some stupid vision pro rubbish, watches that cannot be sold as they have problems with patents, and Tim is still getting his salt every month, do a job, do it well, get paid, do it badly get fired..

Apple has a policy of making it all but impossible for developers to take hold of the power of the various operating systems, Apple is being spiteful and for really no good reason...

Why are ipads so expensive? Sell more for less, if ipads cost 2/3rds of what they cost now, I would have bought more than one in the last 12 years, but as they don't improve all that much in terms of functionality, but cost more and more, you end buying something else or not at all...

Apple is missing out on the fcp for ipad money from me, as well as an ipad sale, maybe more than 1 ipad sale, simply as it is not viable to buy, too damn expensive here in South Africa..

The bigger issue is the lack of Offical Apple Inc representation in Africa, we deal with 3rd party and truly awful vendors at that, lack of knowledge of the product, repairs farmed out to other vendors, not official Apple..

The walled garden invites only weeds... Sharing is caring, and Apple is sending a clear message, we will do as we please..

 

[blotchy-veil]

iCloud account I still have local copies of all my data on my Mac

Unless you have "optimize storage" enabled, which is the default, in which case you might have low res or unusable files. I recently had an issue where a video wouldn't play because I forgot to disable this (imo terrible) setting on a new device and it wasn't downloading properly.

 

[SmoMo]

EU would ban breathing if they could fine someone for noncompliance.

Not true, is just folklore created by eurosceotics that was lapped up by the gullible, still believed today even.

What is the EU's 'bendy bananas' law?

The so-called 'bendy bananas' law was left out of new UK legislation repealing EU regulations.

theferret.scot

 

[AlixSPQR]

Running Ubuntu on Apple Silicon Macs is Possible - OMG! Ubuntu

Ubuntu Asahi is a community project that brings a full Ubuntu desktop experience to Apple silicon Macs. If you're familiar with efforts to get Linux

www.google.com

Yes you can run Ubuntu on Apple silicon but it's through Asahi Linux. I believe it has a fee model and it is not free?

Not sure how hardware compatibility is but if the fee is low and it works it is a solution but I don't use Linux as my main driver for a reason. I think the same reason I am assuming you prefer MacOS.

I don't know, maybe it is me but spending so much for a Mac is MacOS. Like I can't use a Mac without MacOS. I just would not like the experience. On a Windows laptop, Linux just feels better suited and I don't feel the sane way about a Windows device in terms of software and hardware the same as with Apple products.

But if it works for you I am all for it. The longer you can extend the life of your Mac's the better and I feel it is commendable and a quality I wish I had. My respect to you!

I realise I didn't explain myself unambigiously, I meant that when macOS is Apple Silicon only, I will continue with x86-machines and Ubuntu, probably build or buy a desktop. In other words, ditch macOS completely.

 

[Mystic_M]

I've been a Mac user since 1988. I've always been in love with both the hardware and software, especially since the first beta of Mac OS X came out in (i believe) 1999. I've also worked there for a very, very long time, but the longer you work there, the more it becomes clear that it isn't a smart company. Not at all actually. They may be the 'Best', but they are far, far away from perfect. Nothing is, but they still don't even come close. I will continue to use the products, but I can't say for how long. I definitely feel the OP's point.

 

[JustinePaula]

The biggest issue with MacOS/iOS is not the OS itself, they are fine, do the job, what grates my gears, is the bloatware, the inability to delete, or not have the option to not install the bloat, I want a thin OS, devoid of all the junk and fat that renders my devices useless.. Why Apple is proud of the bloatware, useless apps I will never use.. Some of the apps would be useful if they worked in Win10/11/Android phones...So that I have 1 calendar, that syncs across all platforms, right now it is a headache to setup, I can do it, but it is more effort than it really needs to be..

Apple is not applying it's collective mind to solving problems, the whole 8GB in M devices is better than 16GB on an Intel device, what?? Why in 2024 is Apple pissing up a rope over 8GB, really Apple devices could ship with 64GB for the same $ amount.. Apple is trolling period... The EU I think get the whole trolling with the regs regarding ports, What does Apple do with the vision Pro... what connector to/from the battery.. That is trolling.. Giving Europe the old birdy..

 

[asiga]

My first Mac was the 20-inch G5 iMac, in its lovely white plastic. It still runs, and I use it from time to time with software that I can still compile on it. However, when the move to Intel was announced, I was very disappointed, and I decided to use Windows+Linux dual boot Acer laptops for some years. Then, when I needed a new laptop, I realized I needed the lightest in the market, and I got a 2010 13inch MacBook Air (Snow Leopard). I've been working in Macs since then, because every bit in the design of that MBA and Snow Leopard was perfection.

But what Apple has done since Steve passed away is to get away from perfection as fast as possible.

And, now, the only reason why I still use Macs is that Windows is not adequate, and that Linux, while much better than Windows, still cannot compare to the Mac. However, they continue destroying MacOS everyday, so I guess that sooner or later it will intersect with the Linux curve, and I'll need to switch.

Why am I so disappointed with Apple. The list is not complex. In order of importance, the reasons why I would jump today if MacOS was not still better than Linux, are:

1. Abandoning standards and releasing unnecessary new custom APIs that makes it hard to maintain multiplatform apps. Instead of adopting Vulkan, they introduce Metal. Instead of pushing OpenCL (which they created, by the way), they deprecate it. The absurdity is so high that they even need to officially support a Wine-based translation layer in the Apple Game Porting Toolkit. Incredible.
2. Not letting you downgrade iOS, nor have high control on updates: it behaves like if the iOS device is not yours, and Apple controls the device (yes, Windows is doing the same now, but rather than a justification it just shows how wrong Apple is these days). I don't like iOS at all, but I notice that Apple dreams of MacOS behaving the same as iOS in terms of updates, so I rate this as #2 in my list even if it's not Mac-specific (yet).
3. Pushing services and subscriptions. Sorry, but no, I don't want any subscription at all. I want Macs and MacOS only. Period.
4. Pushing the iPad in such a way that it looks a Macbook alternative, and, even worse, transforming MacOS so that it looks more like iOS. In the end, we can see a horizon where MacOS and iOS will merge. Again, no, Apple, that's not what I want nor what I need.
5. Not being able to release a 15inch Macbook Air that can compete in terms of weight with the LG Gram. The MBA weights 50% more than the LG at the same display size. Yes, the excuse is obvious, the MBA is aluminum, but Steve Jobs would have released the lightest 15inch in the market no matter the needed changes, because that is what the Macbook Air is supposed to be, the lightest in the market.
6. Getting rid of Nvidia. No matter how good the next M3 Ultra will be, being able to have a set of Nvidia boards in the Mac Pro was a very good thing, and Apple decided to eliminate that.
7. The Swift language. First, Objective C was better. Second, Rust and C are better than Swift. Third, the world doesn't need a new language which doesn't introduce anything new that other languages already have, and whose only result is that it's going to fragmentate more the source code of Mac software and make it more difficult to port and maintain, no matter in what OSs you can install the Swift compiler. Do you really want to design a new language? Then design one that has features that nobody has and that helps write better apps. Swift is a step backwards compared to Objective C.
8. Nonsense in MacOS requirements of new devices: The latest Magic Trackpad 2 requires at least Big Sur (really?). Come on, the previous version ran even on Snow Leopard. It just shows they want to bring the iOS sense of obsolescence to the Mac.
9. Not giving the proper value to great innovations that make the Mac the best platform. Just to name an example, Snow Leopard introduced the "3 finger drag" as a standard option in the Trackpad settings. That setting is so good, that everybody I showed this feature, thanked me and kept it enabled forever. But Apple maybe thought it was too good, and instead of making it enabled by default, they buried it hidden in the accessibility settings (it's still there, but I fear someday one of their "bright" minds will decide to drop it). Or... the magsafe, another great thing that some "bright" mind thought was too good and had to be dropped (in this case they realized about the mistake years later and brought it back). EDIT: I just remembered that they even dropped the boot chime years ago and then brought it back. Incredible, what Apple has done without Steve is incredible.
10. Design flaws. This should never happen in the Mac, but it happens, because they have changed their priorities. Now somebody said that the goal is to have bezel-less displays. Fine. Then they realize that this would require a notch at the top. No problem, the Mac UI can be destroyed because the goal is not having bezels anymore (and moreover, we love the iPhone more than the Mac, and it has a notch, so that's perfect!!!). Nonsense.

 

[JustinePaula]

Design flaws are a massive part of my issue with Mac/MacOS, one of the biggest issues is that since at least 2015, Apple has known about the bug in FCPx, the wrong keyboard bug in which the default keyboard is set to the wrong language, in my case German as shown here...

There has been no comment from Apple, nor any fix since 2015, almost a decade and what is Apple waiting for?

The attitude of we will do as we please, we will sell you what we want, regardless of how well or poor the product is, and you will pay $$$ for the product, even though it is worse than a clone from China..

Apple seem proud of the product they launch every year, yet they are not great, and expensive and useless for the most part, my M1 Macbook AIr, is a great laptop, functionally useless as the keyboard on the laptop, is in English, FCP is set to German, I have no way to resolve the conflict, I have posted feedbacks, no reply from Apple...

Apple is content to sit back and watch Rome burn, they enjoy the chaos, the carnage... I can use FCP, but the use is limited, fix the bugs, fix the RAM, so that we can upgrade post purchase...

If Apple wants to make money, then make it possible for me to spend money on upgrades, I have owned 3 laptops from Apple, and only 1 got upgrades, the 2013 Macbook Pro and the 2020 M1 Air, no upgrades, as they are not possible, I would have upgraded both to the max, bought Apple external drives, if they existed, I would have bought ipads/ipad pro's if they were affordable and useful in terms of SD Card slots on device...

These are really solved issues, designing devices for later upgrade cannot be that impossible, or is it? I doubt it is not possible, it is about the will to do it...

Reduce the built in bloat, open the walls, at least make the effort, maybe it might be worth it, I truly wonder how brave Tim is? From the day he took over, he has shown a lack of bravery.. A lack of courage, taking the less risky decision.. Is he the best for the job???

 

[scorpio vega]

People have said I am just posting to complain. Or that my post is a useless attempt to change things. I disagree. A thought expressed by one person can be useless-agreed, but a thought when shared and amplified by many and those many then share their opinions it can spark a change. All change starts with an idea or opinion that something is wrong. How do unjust laws get rectified? Someone has to stand up and say this is wrong and I will not stand for it.

Hopefully none of this will come into fruition. It’s tech. Not human rights.

I very much am happy with apples way. I shudder to think of android being the future. I don’t dislike windows but hate their current direction

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Is there some OEM out there that makes modular laptops that are also high quality?

Check out Framework....https://frame.work

 

[Ctrlos]

Unless you have "optimize storage" enabled, which is the default, in which case you might have low res or unusable files. I recently had an issue where a video wouldn't play because I forgot to disable this (imo terrible) setting on a new device and it wasn't downloading properly.

I still have the option though. Apple and other companies would rather we infinitely rent cloud storage from them and I have no problems with this but what I do require is the ability to easily extract and copy MY data from their servers. Google Photos does not offer an easy way to do this beyond mass downloads.

I don’t mind only having thumbnail copies to save storage on my iPhone because I know that same file is being uploaded to my Mac at full res.

Vision Pro sets a dangerous precedent because it can’t even sideload MP3’s without downloading them from Apple Music.

 

[JustinePaula]

Check out Framework....https://frame.work

Modular is a solved problem, Apple chooses to troll, to flip the bird, to deliberately be obtuse, to produce substandard equipment, make false claims about performance, and when the rubber hits the road, dream up insane illogical excuses...

The real tragedy in the whole story are the apathetic compliant consumers who buy the garbage, there are consumers who buy the junk as a grudge purchase, and a few that are really mostly happy...

What has surprised me it the total lack of a class action lawsuit over the whole BTO garbage technology philosophy Apple Inc has assumed for the last 20 years or so, Steve Jobs was so brave to produce the 1st generation of the MacBook Pro, it was in some way modular, in that it was not hard for 3rd parties to develop ways to use the slim dvd drive as a 2nd hard drive, the replaceable battery, replaceable RAM, solved problems...

I am pretty sure every macbook pro user has at one point or another felt that "if only I could add a bit more RAM.." What I see is the Macbook Pro should be modular, you buy modules from istore or 3rd party MFI products, the Macbook Air is BTO, and the Macbook plastic as a student laptop, robust, functional.

If Framework is modular, then Apple with it's R and D budget is not able to produce a modular laptop, this is not one of cannot, it is one of deliberate and considered choice, and that leads to the question why?

Why not sell modules, it would really make Apple more "eco" friendly by keep laptops out of the landfill..

 

[stevemiller]

Here’s my thing. I’m mostly ok with a somewhat inflated markup on raw specs. I’m not chasing raw benchmark numbers (and will happily send my rendering projects to windows or Linux machines for those tasks). I’m also not chasing infinite customizability, and I’m somewhat ok with a more walled-garden experience (as long as it aligns with my basic usage needs).

What I DO want is simply a decently good experience that mostly gets out of my way. What I’ve found increasingly frustrating is that I can uphold my end of the contract: accept the limitations, pay a bit more, and get all the Apple products that supposedly offer that tightly integrated experience. And I can try to use just the basic features marketed by Apple, no fancy edge cases. And it will still fail spectacularly. Not rarely. Not occasionally. Constantly.

And this is something I’ve seen as an uptick in recent years as Apple has tried to fold more and more things into that ecosystem in pursuit of endless growth. In the last year I finally got AirPods and an Apple Watch when my Fitbit and existing headphones needed replacing. And my god, if this was my first experience with Apple products, I’d never want to touch the brand again. It’d be shorter to list the times when things do work.

Anyway, I’m under no illusions that other tech is going to be any better for frustrations and bugs and poorly designed features (I still use windows hardware enough to have no grass is greener mentality). But I still can’t help but feel like Apple has largely betrayed the main justification I had for sticking with them. It largely feels like they’ve looked at the landscape of endless marketing driven, sloppily implemented features in the industry and though “why waste profit trying to be any better?”

Still using Apple stuff. But I got damn near close to ditching right before apple silicon was announced, when their hardware had become nearly untenable for basic use. And I’m approaching a similar spot with their software today. I hope they get their act together.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple is not applying it's collective mind to solving problems, the whole 8GB in M devices is better than 16GB on an Intel device, what?? Why in 2024 is Apple pissing up a rope over 8GB, really Apple devices could ship with 64GB for the same $ amount.. Apple is trolling period...

+100 to this
I'm blown away with how well their marketing works too ... they have a sizeable faction *defending* this..

Apple have folks defending them ripping them off
It is incredible