Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?

[Dmunjal]

The 'Apple locking in' fallacy is not true at all. I am not forced to make the decision to buy an iPhone, I choose to because I prefer using it.
Of course there are shortcomings in the OS and the hardware, but the trade off is far worse than the shortcomings. iPhone does far better with the hardware and the software. For example, iPhone 6 has smaller battery than the S6 and S6 battery life is still not better than iPhone 6. Apple designs custom SOC for efficiency while Samsung will design a generic processor that runs a generic OS, that is where Samsung cannot catch up to Apple.

Let me turn the tables with a silly question, when will Android catch up to iOS, example http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency/#axzz3XTduabxD

There is a lock in to the ecosystem. IPhone users hesitate to switch to Android lest they lose iMessage, Facetime, and Airplay with other iOS devices.

As for battery life and performance, iOS is doing a lot less than Android. I noticed battery life has gotten worse as iOS has added features like multitasking and automatic downloads to give an example.

I don't know enough about the audio latency. I haven't noticed any unusual delay at all with music or telephony apps. I don't play games, though.

 

[nviz22]

Guys, Apple is still going to be king for awhile.

Here's why:

• Legions of buyers, always selling more devices each year pretty much.
• Android and iOS are becoming more and more alike in function at the very core.
• Apple has sophisticated architecture enough to win single core usage, which is what phones should focus on since more people open up sms than play some high powered and graphical games.
• Apple provides unpredictable moves to keep some people on their toes like Siri, Apple Pay, and Touch ID.
• Less fragmentation, 2 or 3 devices vs 100s on Android.
• Timely updates and more support than Google does for Nexus devices.

It will take some major ground breaking to overtake Apple has the number one OEM on the market. Samsung may take it temporarily, but they are not in the position to dominate consistently since their devices are polarizing in nature to the point that it ignores a good segment or two of the market to say the least.

 

[BaldiMac]

There is a lock in to the ecosystem. IPhone users hesitate to switch to Android lest they lose iMessage, Facetime, and Airplay with other iOS devices.

How is that a lock? Sounds like an advantage to their choice.

Is a person locked in their home because they hesitate to switch to a shack lest the lose access to running water?

As for battery life and performance, iOS is doing a lot less than Android.

How about some statistical evidence, instead of an unsubstantiated opinion?

As far as battery life, I can't think of a single statistic that would put iOS behind Android when looking at software alone.

I noticed battery life has gotten worse as iOS has added features like multitasking and automatic downloads to give an example.

What would you expect to happen? Of course adding multitasking would decrease battery life. This isn't magic!

 

[C DM]

How is that a lock? Sounds like an advantage to their choice.

Is a person locked in their home because they hesitate to switch to a shack lest the lose access to running water?



How about some statistical evidence, instead of an unsubstantiated opinion?

As far as battery life, I can't think of a single statistic that would put iOS behind Android when looking at software alone.



What would you expect to happen? Of course adding multitasking would decrease battery life. This isn't magic!

Come on, on other platforms adding multitasking support only added to battery life!

 

[Dmunjal]

How is that a lock? Sounds like an advantage to their choice.

Is a person locked in their home because they hesitate to switch to a shack lest the lose access to running water?

Isn't a proprietary feature the definition of lock in? Apple's entire business model is to tweak a standard with a proprietary feature when they can. Airplay vs. DLNA? Why haven't they opened up iMessage or Facetime? Again, to keep the lock in. That's why many use Whatsapp and Skype. Especially outside the US.

How about some statistical evidence, instead of an unsubstantiated opinion?

It's well known that multitasking, IPC, automatic downloads, widgets, and all the background tasks that Android has uses more battery. IOS does a good job of running one app really well.

As far as battery life, I can't think of a single statistic that would put iOS behind Android when looking at software alone.

Agreed. Battery life per mAh on iOS blows away Android.

What would you expect to happen? Of course adding multitasking would decrease battery life. This isn't magic!

That was my point.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Why should Apple open up its features like iMessage, FaceTime, AirPlay and photo stream? It's their product much like Nike don't release trainers where you can remove the branding and put Adidas logos on them. They are exclusive features to the product and there is no obligation to offer any of them to other platform. Do Samsung offer their apps to iOS and other Android devices?

I've stopped using Skype since owning an iPhone and iPad and most people I know are in this boat. FaceTime seems more reliable for my needs. iMessage is useful as it shows up on my iPad but I have unlimited texts anyway so cost has never been an incentive. I could easily change platform though and adapt, I've done it many times over the years.

 

[BaldiMac]

Isn't a proprietary feature the definition of lock in?

No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in

Vendor lock in is about the monetary cost of switching to another vendor. The cost of switching to from iOS to Android is minimal for the vast majority of iOS users.

To me, the Apple Watch would the only significant example of vendor lock in for iOS.

Apple's entire business model is to tweak a standard with a proprietary feature when they can.

No, it's not. Apple uses standards all the time. HTML5, H.264, etc. They use proprietary solutions when they can make something better than the standards. In some situations, controlling the end to end solution has advantages for the end user.

Airplay vs. DLNA?

Exactly my point.

Why haven't they opened up iMessage or Facetime? Again, to keep the lock in. That's why many use Whatsapp and Skype. Especially outside the US.

Again, not lock in. Simply feature advantages for iOS devices. There is no penalty for switching from these services.

iMessage is a particularly bad example for your argument, since it works with industry standard text messages.

It's well known that multitasking, IPC, automatic downloads, widgets, and all the background tasks that Android has uses more battery. IOS does a good job of running one app really well.

You seem to be implying that iOS doesn't do all the things that you listed for Android. That's simply not true.

Agreed. Battery life per mAh on iOS blows away Android.

Yep.

That was my point.

But not your whole point. You appear to be implying that Android does "multitasking, IPC, automatic downloads, widgets, and all the background tasks" and "IOS does a good job of running one app really well", so the battery life hit on Android is simply a reflection of it doing all those things while Apple only does one thing.

Except iOS does all those things, too. It just does them more efficiently.

 

[Abazigal]

Isn't a proprietary feature the definition of lock in? Apple's entire business model is to tweak a standard with a proprietary feature when they can. Airplay vs. DLNA? Why haven't they opened up iMessage or Facetime? Again, to keep the lock in. That's why many use Whatsapp and Skype. Especially outside the US.

Apple profits from the sales of hardware. Services like iMessage and FaceTime incur server costs, but don't earn Apple any revenue; they instead serve as a means of value-add to the end user.

In this context, I see no reason for Apple to offer these services to non-Apple product users. Can you imagine if everyone in the world used iMessage even when they don't own Apple products? They would be jamming up Apple's servers, and causing Apple to incur extra costs without earning them any revenue.

WhatsApp is available on multiple platforms because that's their business model. The developers wanted to quickly build up a critical user base to attract other companies to buy their company (and Facebook took the bait). And mind you that WhatsApp was reportedly losing $200 million a year, so maintaining their service certainly wasn't cheap. Google offers hangouts to keep users entrenched in their own ecosystem. There is no free lunch in this world.

Nobody is forcing you to use iMessage. I am using telegram myself.

 

[stevelam]

There is a lock in to the ecosystem. IPhone users hesitate to switch to Android lest they lose iMessage, Facetime, and Airplay with other iOS devices.

As for battery life and performance, iOS is doing a lot less than Android. I noticed battery life has gotten worse as iOS has added features like multitasking and automatic downloads to give an example.

I don't know enough about the audio latency. I haven't noticed any unusual delay at all with music or telephony apps. I don't play games, though.

thats the silliest way to explain it. apple has a 'lock' because theres some features not available on other phones? thats like saying samsung s5 had a 'lock' on the ecosystem because it had a detachable battery.

battery life and performance? do you own an s6? i do. the battery life is abysmal. go check androidcentral forums. people are having to remove simple weather widgets from the home screen because THAt sucks up too much battery.

 

[jamezr]

thats the silliest way to explain it. apple has a 'lock' because theres some features not available on other phones? thats like saying samsung s5 had a 'lock' on the ecosystem because it had a detachable battery.

battery life and performance? do you own an s6? i do. the battery life is abysmal. go check androidcentral forums. people are having to remove simple weather widgets from the home screen because THAt sucks up too much battery.

Not true.......some maybe experiencing but that is not the norm. There are plenty of people in the S6 thread on MR that have great battery life on the S6.
Just because some have had issues doesn't mean everyone is experiencing those same issues. That is a bad analogy you used. Look at the iphone thread here on MR...tons of people reporting issues with their iphones. should we then assume ALL have the same issues? I think not.....

 

[lazard]

Apple profits from the sales of hardware. Services like iMessage and FaceTime incur server costs, but don't earn Apple any revenue; they instead serve as a means of value-add to the end user.

In this context, I see no reason for Apple to offer these services to non-Apple product users. Can you imagine if everyone in the world used iMessage even when they don't own Apple products? They would be jamming up Apple's servers, and causing Apple to incur extra costs without earning them any revenue.

WhatsApp is available on multiple platforms because that's their business model. The developers wanted to quickly build up a critical user base to attract other companies to buy their company (and Facebook took the bait). And mind you that WhatsApp was reportedly losing $200 million a year, so maintaining their service certainly wasn't cheap. Google offers hangouts to keep users entrenched in their own ecosystem. There is no free lunch in this world.

Nobody is forcing you to use iMessage. I am using telegram myself.

The $206.5M is misleading. If you take out the one time charges (share-based compensation and issuing common stock below fair value), Whatsapp would have actually turned a $2.4M profit ($15.921M in revenue and $13.5 in operating expenses).

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Not true.......some maybe experiencing but that is not the norm. There are plenty of people in the S6 thread on MR that have great battery life on the S6.
Just because some have had issues doesn't mean everyone is experiencing those same issues. That is a bad analogy you used. Look at the iphone thread here on MR...tons of people reporting issues with their iphones. should we then assume ALL have the same issues? I think not.....

Yup, my battery life is pretty good. It's not comparable to my Note 4 battery life, but I would compare it to the S4 battery life, which is pretty good. The standby life is much better on the S6 though, compared to the S4. Never had an S5 too compare.

 

[nia820]

I hope apple closes the gap. Since getting my s6 edge i seriously feel cheated. My iphone 6+ is a gorgeous phone. However it would be even better if it had more ram.

I got tired of apps and safari tabs refreshing all the time. And at times the thing would lag. I dont know what apple has against adding ram to their devices. 1g of ram is laughable for such a premium device. Especially in the 6+.

Even though i do love the stability of ios apple really sucks when it comes to hardware. for the price they charge there should be top of the line displays and hardware.

 

[Vegastouch]

I hope apple closes the gap. Since getting my s6 edge i seriously feel cheated. My iphone 6+ is a gorgeous phone. However it would be even better if it had more ram.

I got tired of apps and safari tabs refreshing all the time. And at times the thing would lag. I dont know what apple has against adding ram to their devices. 1g of ram is laughable for such a premium device. Especially in the 6+.

Even though i do love the stability of ios apple really sucks when it comes to hardware. for the price they charge there should be top of the line displays and hardware.

You would think but all the Apple enthusiasts think it is perfect and only needs 1 GB of RAM. If they bump it to 2 GB, it will add $50 to $100 more to the price to an already hefty priced phone.

 

[epicrayban]

I dont know what apple has against adding ram to their devices. 1g of ram is laughable for such a premium device. Especially in the 6+.

Profit margins.

 

[tbayrgs]

Profit margins.

Yup, but don't imply any of the other handset manufacturers wouldn't do exactly the same thing if they could. If Samsung or LG was confident they could produce a decent experience with only 1 or 2GB of RAM vs. the 3 they're using now, they certainly would. They're not being generous--their OS would grind to a halt with less. They can't, so they don't.

 

[Vegastouch]

Yup, but don't imply any of the other handset manufacturers wouldn't do exactly the same thing if they could. If Samsung or LG was confident they could produce a decent experience with only 1 or 2GB of RAM vs. the 3 they're using now, they certainly would. They're not being generous--their OS would grind to a halt with less. They can't, so they don't.

a 64GB iPhone 6 with 1 GB of Ram is the same price of a 64 GB Samsung GS6 with 3 GB RAM.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You would think but all the Apple enthusiasts think it is perfect and only needs 1 GB of RAM. If they bump it to 2 GB, it will add $50 to $100 more to the price to an already hefty priced phone.

Apple have never bumped the price up in the past because of improved hardware to the older models. The 'S' versions usually have improved hardware yet are priced the same on launch to previous models. What makes you think adding an extra bit of RAM will change this pattern?

 

[Vegastouch]

Apple have never bumped the price up in the past because of improved hardware to the older models. The 'S' versions usually have improved hardware yet are priced the same on launch to previous models. What makes you think adding an extra bit of RAM will change this pattern?

The screen, memory space and RAM are the biggest expenses on computers. Apple charges a lot of money to upgrade RAM on their other products on their iMacs and laptops. No proof since they have never bumped it up, im just assuming. You could be right.

BTW, the iPhone 6 costs $200 to make. Another site says it is $227 to make. Its only $15.50 more to make the 6+, they charge you $100 more.


I cant find how much it costs to make a GS6, so far but im looking.

 

[tbayrgs]

a 64GB iPhone 6 with 1 GB of Ram is the same price of a 64 GB Samsung GS6 with 3 GB RAM.

Yup, but if Samsung could sell you the same handset with only 1 or 2 GB, they'd charge you exactly the same price and you know it. But they can't because the user experience would be terrible. Thanks my point.

Everyone here trying to paint Apple as the villain and all Android OEMs as charitable benefactors is what's laughable. They ALL are trying to make as much profit as possible and if you think otherwise, you're diluted. Apple just happens to do it better than anyone.

 

[C DM]

You would think but all the Apple enthusiasts think it is perfect and only needs 1 GB of RAM. If they bump it to 2 GB, it will add $50 to $100 more to the price to an already hefty priced phone.

While it's possible that the price might increase with something like that, since we can't really rule it out, it doesn't seem likely. Prices didn't change when they went from 512 MB to 1 GB for example, or added LTE and other similar changes that required some newer and additional chips/hardware than before, etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?

They charge £100 more at retail for the 6 Plus because as a product you are physically getting a lot more than the standard 6. Manufacturing costs don't even come into it because the company are out to make a profit and they structure their pricing based on marketing and customer perception. The same can be said in the car industry. A Ford Mondeo does not cost £5k more to manufacture than a Ford Focus but they are not obliged to price the cars closer together at retail because that is not how margins work.

I think your assumption is wrong, otherwise we'd see price hikes at every iPhone launch to coincide with bigger devices and improved hardware.

 

[Vegastouch]

Yup, but if Samsung could sell you the same handset with only 1 or 2 GB, they'd charge you exactly the same price and you know it. But they can't because the user experience would be terrible. Thanks my point.

Everyone here trying to paint Apple as the villain and all Android OEMs as charitable benefactors is what's laughable. They ALL are trying to make as much profit as possible and if you think otherwise, you're diluted. Apple just happens to do it better than anyone.

I found this on how much it costs to make a GS6 64GB EDGE. It is more than the iPhone 6+ 128 GB to build yet the EDGE is $90 less to buy.

Im not saying Apple is a villian, just that they charge more for you to buy their stuff and why they have more profit. They could sell it for cheaper and still make billions. Samsung does.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I found this on how much it costs to make a GS6 and it is considerably more than the iPhone 6 yet it is the same price.

Yet the S6 was priced higher at retail than its predecessor. The iPhone 6 is bigger than an iPhone 5 yet the same price. The prices are what they are and there is no set rules for what profit margin a company decides to set. They charge what they predict they can get away with.

 

[gotluck]

Yup, but don't imply any of the other handset manufacturers wouldn't do exactly the same thing if they could. If Samsung or LG was confident they could produce a decent experience with only 1 or 2GB of RAM vs. the 3 they're using now, they certainly would. They're not being generous--their OS would grind to a halt with less. They can't, so they don't.

they could make a decent experience with 2gb for sure if they would stop wasting so much ram with their skins. I would argue the moto G gives a somewhat decent experience with 1gb ram. However I would never complain about more ram and would always want more as there really is no downside.

I'm just arguing semantics though you are right, samsung and LG need that ram for their version of the OS. OEMS like sony, htc and nexus have more than half the 3gb ram free most of the time