Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?

[tbayrgs]

I found this on how much it costs to make a GS6 64GB EDGE. its the only thing i could find so far. It is more than the iPhone 6+ 128 GB and cheaper to buy.

They price it where they do because they know sales will suffer if they price it any higher. Samsung's not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They are just not capable of achieving the same profit margins. If consumer demand allowed them to price is $100 more, they absolutely would. Again, not as good at it as Apple, nothing more.

 

[mi7chy]

Let me turn the tables with a silly question, when will Android catch up to iOS, example http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency/#axzz3XTduabxD

This article is exaggerating the market for DAW. If you look at the number of reviews, since Apple doesn't report total downloads like Google Play Store, the top iOS DAW apps like Cubasis, Auria, Meteor, etc. total only a few hundred per app and most of them haven't been updated since 2014 so that's worrisome since demand drives frequent updates.

Android latency and jitter can be corrected in-app like with Audio Evolution which is one of the best DAW on Android or iOS and for comparison it has a few thousand reviews and is updated in 2015.

http://www.audio-evolution.com/manual/doku.php?id=latency_and_latency_correction&DokuWiki=e779fd7b8c6e0b9e3c70b33787da71e4

Jammz prefer the workflow of Android and Audio Evolution over iOS:
https://youtu.be/ISWzslKIib8

For anyone doing serious professional sound work they'll likely use Ableton on a Windows x86-64 device. iOS is a toy in comparison to even an entry level Surface 3.

https://youtu.be/uNkNEFlUtEk

 

[nia820]

Profit margins.

If they want to charge more for extra ram than so be it. Most iphone users are willing and able yo shell out the extra dollara for an iphone. Im sure $100 wont make a difference. But apple and apple fans needs to stop trying to convince people that 1gb ram on 6+ is good enough when its not.

I had both iphone 6 and 6+. My 6+ was much more laggy than my 6 was. The experience wasn't as smooth.

Apple has this trend of lagging behind other phone manufacturers.They refused to make a phone over 3.5 and then 4 inches for the longest time until they realized people were jumping ship for a bigger screen. I hadn't owned an iphone since 3g because of the mouse size screen. Then apple finally came to their senses and they came out with two different iphone sizes. Something manufacturers had been doing for the past 3 years.

Now their issue is hardware. Apple can add better hardware and charge more for it. People will buy it even if they have to go broke. Money isn't the issue.

 

[epicrayban]

If they want to charge more for extra ram than so be it. Most iphone users are willing and able yo shell out the extra dollara for an iphone. Im sure $100 wont make a difference. But apple and apple fans needs to stop trying to convince people that 1gb ram on 6+ is good enough when its not.

I had both iphone 6 and 6+. My 6+ was much more laggy than my 6 was. The experience wasn't as smooth.

Apple has this trend of lagging behind other phone manufacturers.They refused to make a phone over 3.5 and then 4 inches for the longest time until they realized people were jumping ship for a bigger screen. I hadn't owned an iphone since 3g because of the mouse size screen. Then apple finally came to their senses and they came out with two different iphone sizes. Something manufacturers had been doing for the past 3 years.

Now their issue is hardware. Apple can add better hardware and charge more for it. People will buy it even if they have to go broke. Money isn't the issue.

I don't think Apple will charge more for upgraded specs. The iPhone 6S and 6S+ will remain the same price points, regardless of what their internal upgrades are. I was merely answering the question. Otherwise, I agree with all you said, more than you probably know.

As I said a number of times before, the Apple branding is so strong that they can get away with not having to compete to the same level as other manufacturers. They can be late to the game with a number of things, but be okay -- heck, even have record breaking sales. The branding is just that strong. They get away with a lot.

Imagine if it wasn't Apple doing this. Imagine another manufacturer refusing to offer larger screen size option(s). Would they still be around? No chance. Only Apple gets away with marching to their own timeframe, despite of what the market demands or wants. And only Apple is given this pass by the tech blogosphere.

This applies to nearly everything; not just the iPhone. Look at the latest Macbook Air reviews. I read a headline last week, "The New Macbook is Great if you Temper your Expectations" or something to that effect. What other review reads like that? When was the last time a non-Apple review title was hedged in such a way?

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

I know iOS is still a bit better optimized (and i don't even think the iP6 is under-specced besides the obvious lack of RAM). The 6s will probably be near perfect performance-wise either way if they do iOS 9 right . It's just the tech nerd in me that it also wants to have the most advanced parts of the industry in it

The iPad mini 2 on the other hand would really profit from an a9 upgrade IMO, not just on paper. My 5S peforms well in 8.3 (besides app/tab reloads), but if i use the iPad semi-productively, it could react a bit quicker to my input.

I'd say that the most advanced parts of the industry allways come from Apple in terms of their iOS Devices CPUs. They offer equal perfromace to Octa Core Android devices, but with lower clock speeds and lower core count along with pretty much no throttling.

Core count doesn't equal perfromace. Clock speed doesn't equal perfromace. It's not iOS being an optimised OS that allows their SoCs to be fast and bench high, it's because Apple create SoC architectures that don't require silly speeds and core counts. The competition don't spend as much on developing custom architectures and they have to increase core counts and clock speed to keep it on par (which results in horrible throttling after a few minutes of running max).

That is what I call the cutting edge of technology anyway

----------

You would think but all the Apple enthusiasts think it is perfect and only needs 1 GB of RAM. If they bump it to 2 GB, it will add $50 to $100 more to the price to an already hefty priced phone.

I believe it was because of the demand for the RAM would be too high and that's why only the iPad Air 2 got 2GB. Read it somewhere but don't have a link as I cannot remember (I'm sure it won't take much searching for you to find though).

 

[epicrayban]

At this point, the hardware is sort of whatever. It'd be great if Apple finally offered a front facing camera higher than the pathetic 1.2 MP; it'd be great if Apple finally offered a higher MP count than 8 (sounds like they're going to 12MP); it'd be super great if there was more RAM for those who browse with multiple tabs; wireless charging or quick charge would make things more convenient for people; and etc.

But that's sort of not as important compared to the real "catching up" that Apple needs to do: SOFTWARE.

-Apple Maps is still pretty poor (compared to Google Maps).
-The stock keyboard is mediocre. Cannot keep up with fast thumb tapping, and doesn't offer gesture typing out of the box. Third party keyboards... have all the bugs been hammered out?
-Allow a bit more freedom and customization. Let us choose what toggles we want in Control Center and where. I don't use AirPlay; let me take it out.
-If you're allowing us to set third party keyboards, why not allow us to set third party other things? Google Maps for navigation would be great.
-Give us access to files
-Give us full email attachments.
-Let me share to more things than just Twitter and Facebook. (On Android, not only can you share to anything; it remembers what you share to the most and keeps it near the top).
-Let us access Siri hands-free anytime, instead of only when it's plugged into the car (talk about a half baked feature).
-Let me update software over data, instead of only on WiFi.
-Let me make App Store purchases without forcing me to use a password each time. Let me have the option to turn that safety feature off. I'm an adult. Let adults manage their own phone and expenses like they do other accounts.
-Let's have true multitasking (the RAM would help this).
-Make going back more consistent. I can't stress how much this bothers me when I use my iPhone after using Android. Navigating through iOS is so inconsistent: sometimes the back button is upper left or right, or lower left or lower right, or lower center. Sometimes I can gesture and other times I can't. Utterly frustrating.
-Organize that Settings page. It's a mess. And make Settings more consistent, too. Sometimes Settings are in the app, sometimes they're in the iOS Settings. What's with that?
-Extra little conveniences like double tap to wake and whatnot would be nice.
-And so forth...

There's probably more I can add if I thought about it.

There is still plenty Android can improve on, too, but I feel like iOS has far more room to go than Android. I said this before, Android is approaching desktop-like powerful (I can essentially minimize apps in TouchWiz, or resize the app window which is very desktop-like, and still be able to do things in the background and foreground). Whereas iOS is still a glorified app drawer. The "world's most advanced mobile operating system" just doesn't feel that advance.

----------

Just to give an example of Android approaching desktop-like capabilities (Galaxy S6):

Yesterday, I was on Chrome on my phone chatting with a customer service rep for an issue. They asked me for the order number, and I didn't have it but I didn't want to risk losing the chat window if I exited out of Chrome (sometimes that happens cause these chat boxes are finicky). What do I do? I minimized Chrome (I think it's called "Pop Out" feature in TouchWiz? Not sure), and in the background, went to my Gallery where I had screen grabbed the order number earlier, saw it in the background, and just went to Chrome in the foreground and typed it out for the CS rep. Boom. I re-enlarged Chrome to full screen and carried on. Didn't skip a beat. Simple, fast, effective, powerful.

(Now that I think about it, split screen would have worked too!)

 

[AppleRobert]

Well, while obviously some people use their phones like that, and more than just a few of course, I'm not really sure there's much to indicate that it's a very high percentage (or even really a majority).

My thinking is that a pretty good percentage did not even upgrade to an IPhone 6 and rather keep what they have for their use with the functions I listed, also throw in using it as a music player.

Everything else they already have an IPad or laptop. Bet a large number of folks have one or the other. Imagine that, using the iPhone the way I described.

 

[skratch77]

I'd say that the most advanced parts of the industry allways come from Apple in terms of their iOS Devices CPUs. They offer equal perfromace to Octa Core Android devices, but with lower clock speeds and lower core count along with pretty much no throttling.

Core count doesn't equal perfromace. Clock speed doesn't equal perfromace. It's not iOS being an optimised OS that allows their SoCs to be fast and bench high, it's because Apple create SoC architectures that don't require silly speeds and core counts. The competition don't spend as much on developing custom architectures and they have to increase core counts and clock speed to keep it on par (which results in horrible throttling after a few minutes of running max).

That is what I call the cutting edge of technology anyway

----------



I believe it was because of the demand for the RAM would be too high and that's why only the iPad Air 2 got 2GB. Read it somewhere but don't have a link as I cannot remember (I'm sure it won't take much searching for you to find though).

Just curious as I can hit 5560 in geekbench what apple cpu comes close to that?

 

[Abazigal]

At this point, the hardware is sort of whatever. It'd be great if Apple finally offered a front facing camera higher than the pathetic 1.2 MP; it'd be great if Apple finally offered a higher MP count than 8 (sounds like they're going to 12MP); it'd be super great if there was more RAM for those who browse with multiple tabs; wireless charging or quick charge would make things more convenient for people; and etc.

But that's sort of not as important compared to the real "catching up" that Apple needs to do: SOFTWARE.

-Apple Maps is still pretty poor (compared to Google Maps).
-The stock keyboard is mediocre. Cannot keep up with fast thumb tapping, and doesn't offer gesture typing out of the box. Third party keyboards... have all the bugs been hammered out?
-Allow a bit more freedom and customization. Let us choose what toggles we want in Control Center and where. I don't use AirPlay; let me take it out.
-If you're allowing us to set third party keyboards, why not allow us to set third party other things? Google Maps for navigation would be great.
-Give us access to files
-Give us full email attachments.
-Let me share to more things than just Twitter and Facebook. (On Android, not only can you share to anything; it remembers what you share to the most and keeps it near the top).
-Let us access Siri hands-free anytime, instead of only when it's plugged into the car (talk about a half baked feature).
-Let me update software over data, instead of only on WiFi.
-Let me make App Store purchases without forcing me to use a password each time. Let me have the option to turn that safety feature off. I'm an adult. Let adults manage their own phone and expenses like they do other accounts.
-Let's have true multitasking (the RAM would help this).
-Make going back more consistent. I can't stress how much this bothers me when I use my iPhone after using Android. Navigating through iOS is so inconsistent: sometimes the back button is upper left or right, or lower left or lower right, or lower center. Sometimes I can gesture and other times I can't. Utterly frustrating.
-Organize that Settings page. It's a mess. And make Settings more consistent, too. Sometimes Settings are in the app, sometimes they're in the iOS Settings. What's with that?
-Extra little conveniences like double tap to wake and whatnot would be nice.
-And so forth...

There's probably more I can add if I thought about it.

There is still plenty Android can improve on, too, but I feel like iOS has far more room to go than Android. I said this before, Android is approaching desktop-like powerful (I can essentially minimize apps in TouchWiz, or resize the app window which is very desktop-like, and still be able to do things in the background and foreground). Whereas iOS is still a glorified app drawer. The "world's most advanced mobile operating system" just doesn't feel that advance.

----------

Just to give an example of Android approaching desktop-like capabilities (Galaxy S6):

Yesterday, I was on Chrome on my phone chatting with a customer service rep for an issue. They asked me for the order number, and I didn't have it but I didn't want to risk losing the chat window if I exited out of Chrome (sometimes that happens cause these chat boxes are finicky). What do I do? I minimized Chrome (I think it's called "Pop Out" feature in TouchWiz? Not sure), and in the background, went to my Gallery where I had screen grabbed the order number earlier, saw it in the background, and just went to Chrome in the foreground and typed it out for the CS rep. Boom. I re-enlarged Chrome to full screen and carried on. Didn't skip a beat. Simple, fast, effective, powerful.

(Now that I think about it, split screen would have worked too!)

This sounds more like a personal wishlist than any real criticism of Apple's software.

I personally feel that the future of iOS should not be to copy the desktop. This means that the average user shouldn't have to fiddle with resizable windows or multiple windows or file managers. I would rather that Apple takes its time to properly figure out how to best abstract these features and optimise them for a mobile touchscreen device, rather than them taking the shortcut by blindly emulating legacy desktop features.

I can also ask about where automatic cloud backups are for Android, or apps which are often iOS first (like Periscope). Find me another company with customer service as good as Apple's. How many people are still waiting for Lollipop? I can go on, because I feel that you have neglected to address a crucial point, which is that Apple customers are nothing like Android customers. Both platforms are quite self-selecting. The features that draw you to Android will not appeal (or at least not as much) to the people using iOS devices. Just as I am drawn to Apple products for features which either don't exist or simply don't work as well on any other platform.

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Just curious as I can hit 5560 in geekbench what apple cpu comes close to that?

Apples iPad Air 2's A8X, capable of around 4,500. By any chance are you using a Sansung SoC and benching it to get that score? Sansung has software in their devices to recognise a benchmarking tool and increase perfromace for a short amount of time (where it then of course throttles). Accounting for both the possible 10-20% cheating Sansung is making here, along with the throttling that will take place, the A8X will outperform any SoC out their in any test that last longer than a few minutes, both benchmarking and real life usage (such as exporting a 1080p video from iMovie...).

Links: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/07/30/samsung-caught-cheating-s4/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...rking-adjustments-inflate-scores-by-up-to-20/

For throttling links, here is an image from Anandtechs review visually showcasing the FPS of a benchmark over time (found attached). The image with the straight line shows the a8x running the benchmark with little drop in perfromace over sustained use, and the image with the up and down lines shows a (more than half a year newer) Sansung phone, showing it heavily throttling up and down over time, and not once did it even match the 7 month older Apple chip.

 

[gotluck]

Wasn't aware that samsung was still cheating, that info is from 2013

Not surprised that a8x would be superior though, tablet vs phone is a bit unfair thermally

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Just curious as I can hit 5560 in geekbench what apple cpu comes close to that?

Another place that Apple are leaps and bounds ahead of the competition is in their NAND flash used in their iPhones and iPads. Not a single competitor has anything that can match the level of perfromace Apple has on their devices.

The read speeds of the iPhone 6, 6 Plus and iPad Air 2 hover around the 250MB per second mark. As you can see in the image bellow, the competition are not even competition when it comes to matching Apples perfromace. Samsungs new phones (S6 and S6 Edge) are faster (and again, 7 months newer than Apples devices) but will still only hit around 200MBps, 20 percent slower than the 7 month old iPhone. (Link: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9146/the-samsung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-review/7)

I feel that in a mobile device, NAND perfromace is much more important than SoC perfromace, as for the majority of time, we all base how a phone or tablet perfroms based on how fast an App launches, or the device boots up... as we rarely render high quality video on out devices.

 

[gotluck]

I believe Samsungs latest Nand in the gs6 is actually superior

The gs 6 isn't in that chart

 

[skratch77]

Apples iPad Air 2's A8X, capable of around 4,500. By any chance are you using a Sansung SoC and benching it to get that score? Sansung has software in their devices to recognise a benchmarking tool and increase perfromace for a short amount of time (where it then of course throttles). Accounting for both the possible 10-20% cheating Sansung is making here, along with the throttling that will take place, the A8X will outperform any SoC out their in any test that last longer than a few minutes, both benchmarking and real life usage (such as exporting a 1080p video from iMovie...).

Links: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/07/30/samsung-caught-cheating-s4/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...rking-adjustments-inflate-scores-by-up-to-20/

For throttling links, here is an image from Anandtechs review visually showcasing the FPS of a benchmark over time (found attached). The image with the straight line shows the a8x running the benchmark with little drop in perfromace over sustained use, and the image with the up and down lines shows a (more than half a year newer) Sansung phone, showing it heavily throttling up and down over time, and not once did it even match the 7 month older Apple chip.

First of samsung never overclocked there phones or cpus,they were cought detecting benches and would set the kernel governor profile to performance to prime and keep the cores running as fast as they could without hitting there throttle limit and by the way that code is long gone and was from the gs4.the gs5 and gs6 don't do that and even if it did its not cheating.they are not running the cores faster clocks then they are marketed as.

Second your chart is comparing a TABLET soc with a power envelope way higher then a cell soc and the chart of the gs6 is doing exactly what big little is supposed to do to get the most performance per watt as possible while running in a small cell phone.

Ps my phone is not throttling and has no hack to get my scores.

I also got a 329 sunspider score on my gs6.

Thanks for comparing a soc that is put in a tablet with a gs6 tho.it truly shows how we'll the gs6 is.it's beating an ax8 that will NEVER run like that lone if installed in an iPhone 6

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Just curious as I can hit 5560 in geekbench what apple cpu comes close to that?

I have to ask, what device is that? As looking at all of the Geekbench scores, the fastest Android device out there is the Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge with a multi core score of 4399 (slower than the 7 month older Apple A8X by around 50) and a single core score of only 1306 (the 7 month older A8X scores 1801, much faster than the S6).

 

[skratch77]

I have to ask, what device is that? As looking at all of the Geekbench scores, the fastest Android device out there is the Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge with a multi core score of 4399 (slower than the 7 month older Apple A8X by around 50) and a single core score of only 1306 (the 7 month older A8X scores 1801, much faster than the S6).

I don't know where your looking but all the gs6s and edges are all benching mid 5000s in geekbench

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

First of samsung never overclocked there phones or cpys,they were cought detecting benches and would set the kernel governor profile to performance to prime and keep the cores running as fast as they could without hitting there throttle limit and by the way that code is long gone and was from the gs4.the gs5 and gs6 don't do that and even if it did its not cheating.they are not running the cores faster clocks then they are marketed as.

Second your chart is comparing a TABLEY soc with a power envelope way higher then a cell soc and the chart of the gs6 is doing exactly what big little is supposed to do to get the most performance per watt as possible while running in a small cell phone.

Ps my phone is not throttling and has no hack to get my scores.

I also got a 329 sunspider score on my gs6.

Thanks for comparing a soc that is put in a tablet with a gs6 tho.it truly shows how we'll the gs6 is.it's beating an ax8 that will NEVER run like that lone if installed in an iPhone 6

Well your originally posted results do not match anything close to the official ones found on the Geekbench website, and you asked for an Apple SoC, I posted one. The iPhone 6 also scores 336, but is 7 months older than the S6, well done on catching up Sansung

 

[gotluck]

Tablets are not phones

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

I don't know where your looking but all the gs6s and edges are all benching mid 5000s in geekbench

I'm looking at the official website, probably the best and most reliable place to look

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Tablets are not phones

He asked for an Apple SoC, I gave him one.

Changing the rules eh

 

[gotluck]

I'm looking at the official website, probably the best and most reliable place to look

Info is probably outdated like in the rest of your posts

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Info is probably outdated like the rest of your posts

What, in the same way that Sausungs phones are 7 months newer than Apples?

A comparison between two phones is never going to be truly valid as one shall always have an advantage of time over the other if they are not released at the same time.

 

[gotluck]

What, in the same way that Sausungs phones are 7 months newer than Apples?

A comparison between two phones is never going to be truly valid as one shall always have an advantage of time over the other if they are not released at the same time.

Yes I agree, you are the one claiming samsung is not superior right now

IMO the newer device has better hardware at the moment

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Yes I agree, you are the one claiming samsung is not superior right now

All I have been claiming since posting on this thread that Apples phones are the peak of mobile technology. You are correct in saying there is now competitors outperforming in some aspects 7 months later, but it's rather impressive that Apple can keep up and still outperform in other points with the disadvantage of time. THIS is what I was talking about with my very original post on this thread; on how Apples phones are at the front of technological advances.

----------

IMO the newer device has better hardware at the moment

Lets just agree that the newest device from either Apple or Samsung will be the fastest overall for its own time haha

 

[skratch77]

I'm looking at the official website, probably the best and most reliable place to look

First of all Mr smarty pants.if you want to talk about the nand performance and the sansung gs6 7 months newer why the hell are you comparing a gs4 and gs5 with the iPhone 6 when at the time the iPhone 6 came out AFTER the gs4 and gs5.

You can't complain about the gs6 being newer then use a new phone to compare to the gs5.the gs5 was out first and apple answered with the iPhone 6 now it's apples turn to answer to the gs6.

Ps here you go just a few gs6 geekbench runs on the past few days.