Can Apple close the gap to the S6's hardware?

[Abazigal]

Nice rant but I haven't heard one person in this thread say in any shape or form that Apple was doomed.

I am sure plenty alluded to it. Apple isn't perfect but they are not run by idiots either. People are quick to criticise Apple, but how many actually take the time to understand Apple and their rationale for doing things the way they do?

You are talking about the company who, amongst many stunning upsets, pulled stunts like blocking flash on their platform and actually winning. This should tell you that there is more to Apple than just pretty hardware and swanky marketing.

And I am also speaking in general, not just for this thread, but also for the various forums like Cnet which I frequent.

 

[jamezr]

I am sure plenty alluded to it. Apple isn't perfect but they are not run by idiots either.

And I am also speaking in general, not just for this thread, but also for the various forums like Cnet which I frequent.

We'll certainly not the poster you quoted. People can criticize Apple and it doesn't always mean impending doom

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I don't care about profits for profits' sake. But after years and years of hearing android fanboys go on and on about how Apple is doomed, it's refreshing to finally have the hard concrete data to show the world that this is obviously not the case.

How many years in a row has it been since they have been dead wrong? Why are these people still insisting in blindly criticizing Apple?

The truth is, being wrong about Apple’s future often stems from being wrong about Apple’s past. If you can’t appreciate what led to Apple's past successes, it’s tough to see the future ones.

I notice a consistent pattern in Apple’s critics. Those that understand Apple the least, criticize Apple the most. If they want me to believe that they understand the reasons why Apple will fall, first demonstrate to me that they understand the reasons why Apple grew at all and grew so tall. Until then, I’ll remain skeptical of the doomsayers.

And I will never stop trying to get them to shut up. One troll at a time.

sucks.

 

[Abazigal]

We'll certainly not the poster you quoted. People can criticize Apple and it doesn't always mean impending doom

No, but I don't agree with his criticism either.

He was asking about why Apple's profits should even be used as evidence, and I answered it. It's proof that Apple is indeed doing something very right. Instead of always laughing that Apple is doomed if it doesn't do X, why not try to understand why Apple is instead doing Y?

----------

sucks.

See my point?

I notice a consistent pattern in Apple’s critics. Those that understand Apple the least, criticize Apple the most. If they want me to believe that they understand the reasons why Apple will fall, first demonstrate to me that they understand the reasons why Apple grew at all and grew so tall. Until then, I’ll remain skeptical of the doomsayers.

 

[tbayrgs]

sucks.

<Whooooosh!> The sound this comment makes as it flies right over the head of this forum member.

See my point?

 

[Vegastouch]

No, but I don't agree with his criticism either.

He was asking about why Apple's profits should even be used as evidence, and I answered it. It's proof that Apple is indeed doing something very right. Instead of always laughing that Apple is doomed if it doesn't do X, why not try to understand why Apple is instead doing Y?

Why dont you explain it to those who don't know since you seem to know all about it. Nobody I saw said they were doomed but a lesson on Apple ways and means might be helpful.

 

[Michael Goff]

No, but I don't agree with his criticism either.

He was asking about why Apple's profits should even be used as evidence, and I answered it. It's proof that Apple is indeed doing something very right. Instead of always laughing that Apple is doomed if it doesn't do X, why not try to understand why Apple is instead doing Y?

----------



See my point?

Microsoft makes tons of money, though not as much. I assume that's evidence that they're doing right as well?

 

[Abazigal]

Microsoft makes tons of money, though not as much. I assume that's evidence that they're doing right as well?

Yes.

It can be argued either way. Microsoft has had its fair share of misses throughout the years, but its core remains very strong, and I don't see it going anywhere. It's certainly still printing money and is very profitable.

And nobody is ever say "Microsoft is doomed!" or something along the line. For all the jokes we make at the expense of Microsoft, the implicit understanding is that it is simply too large to fail, because of the monopoly its desktop software enjoys in the enterprise market.

Likewise, nobody seems to have any expectations about any 1st-gen microsoft product either. It's like everyone basically expects it to flop or at least be heavily flawed, and they are willing to give MS years to refine it. Sure, there were sniggers when the 1st Surface tablet notched losses of close to a billion dollars, but there seemed to be this air of "inevitably" around it.

Conversely, how many strings of successes must Apple have, and how many times must it open up new markets and thoroughly reinvent entire industries before people start acknowledging Apple's success and that maybe, just maybe Apple had been right all along?

It's like with Apple products, all the people around here can see are the flaws (even when none may exist) and none of its strengths.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yes.

It can be argued either way. Microsoft has had its fair share of misses throughout the years, but its core remains very strong, and I don't see it going anywhere. It's certainly still printing money and is very profitable.

And nobody is ever say "Microsoft is doomed!" or something along the line. For all the jokes we make at the expense of Microsoft, the implicit understanding is that it is simply too large to fail, because of the monopoly its desktop software enjoys in the enterprise market.

Likewise, nobody seems to have any expectations about any 1st-gen microsoft product either. It's like everyone basically expects it to flop or at least be heavily flawed, and they are willing to give MS years to refine it. Sure, there were sniggers when the 1st Surface tablet notched losses of close to a billion dollars, but there seemed to be this air of "inevitably" around it.

Conversely, how many strings of successes must Apple have, and how many times must it open up new markets and thoroughly reinvent entire industries before people start acknowledging Apple's success and that maybe, just maybe Apple had been right all along?

It's like with Apple products, all the people around here can see are the flaws (even when none may exist) and none of its strengths.

I doubt anyone here actually thinks Apple is doomed.

Edit: Though, I do have to say ... past success does not equate to future success for anyone.

 

[epicrayban]

Nice rant but I haven't heard one person in this thread say in any shape or form say that Apple was doomed.

Far from it.

Edit: I see a lot have pointed this out already. They can read.

 

[nviz22]

I think Apple is primed for a great 6S/6S+ show.

Think of it this way. How was the 6/6+? Great devices, but equally great headaches, right? I mean bricked devices, iOS bugs, bending, etc really hampered the 6/6+ from being seen as favorable as it could've been.

The S is generally for under the hood, software, and sweet features that are unexpected. I expect a strong iOS 9 with more useful features that Android may offer or some that Apple feels is necessary for the core iOS experience.

As for the hardware, 2 GB of RAM on a 1.7-2.0 GHz tri-core processor paired with iOS optimization should make the experience even better. A new 12 MP camera with OIS on both devices plus a DSLR experience has me excited. Expect a much better front facing camera since the Note 4, G4, and S6/S6 Edge boast good front facing shooters.

I really want the force touch gestures to be very good and imperative to the core experience to allow alternative methods to different functions.

The rest of the features are unknown at this point. Apple doesn't play "catchup" as quick, so they focus on what they can marginally improve and then go for unknowns. The best thing to do is speculate from their mergers, acquisitions, and recent patent history.

I mean the S line has been good to iOS users and it took me awhile to truly appreciate what Apple does because I used to be totally pro Android and anti-Apple. The iPod Touch and iPad really changed my mind.

4S: Siri, 5S: Touch ID and 64 Bit Processing. 6S? Unknown.

Siri led Google to unleash Google Now. Microsoft lagged behind, but released Cortana. That forced the mobile OS' creators to step up their game.

Touch ID: People are into the idea of using fingerprint biometrics to protect their phones. I have been using a fingerprint scanner since the S5 and I cannot enjoy other phones as much if they lack the feature. Now with Apple Pay, Samsung even made their Samsung Pay for later this yar.

64 Bit Processing is kinda unnecessary, but interesting. It can help mobile gaming out with coding languages like Metal and provide some powerful SoCs or GPU/CPU combos for high end mobile gaming. Frostbite on iOS 8 was pretty interesting last year. Wait till it becomes the standard with 4 GB of RAM? Android is closer to that, but I think Apple will make the most user friendly SoC and RAM combo given their experience to understand customers' wants.

As for the battery, 6S+ will be the best, but I hope the original 6S will have something to avoid having to charge frequently. Wireless charging and quick charge are musts now.

Innovation, even in small aspects, on both sides of the aisle is health and key to future mobile development. I like the back and forth between the Galaxy and iPhone now. I use both the 5C and S6 Edge, but I continue to use my S6 as the daily driver. iOS is great in spurts.

 

[epicrayban]

Who is trolling here? People want to see the iPhone compete at the rate that the competition is competing, firstly in the hardware front, and secondly in the software front.

And the problem is we run inevitably into apologists who always say some form of or combination of 1) apple doesn't need to because of sales or 2) apple doesn't need to because I don't mind that type of hardware and/or I don't happen to need that specific software feature(s).

My specific argument is that apples success is riding largely on its reputation and branding and not necessarily its end user experience. The branding is incredibly strong, strong enough that apple can compete at their own pace. And I fear that it is folly to let them get away with that; a mistake that ultimately detracts from the end user experience.

1gb or ram?
1.2 front camera?
Even the 8mp on back is starting to sound low (in camera comparisons and tests, the iPhone always loses out when testing zoom quality and details).
The screen (have you seen it side by side next to the s6 at all?)
No form of wireless charging or quick charge (do you know how convenient these features are?)

And in the software side, inconsistent back button placements and gestures; messy and inconsistent settings; no full email attachments; no real customization that can lead to better and more personal functionality; and more...

Again, the "worlds most advanced mobile operating system." Sure, there's something to be said for marketing but that is an outright lie. And all people can say when that disconnect is brought up are excuses.

All i7guy can say is that his workflow doesn't need said features. Great for you but its not just about you. We're discussing a future ios that can make more than just you happy. It can make people who need or would like certain features happy too. And then to argue in such a way and still dare espouse the importance of individualism and personal use; what kind of incongruous argument is that?

Or others of the same ilk trying to draw straw man arguments that people are saying apple is doomed or somehow ios and android will now suddenly be exactly the same and oh what a boring world that would be. Or who would want to mimic desktop like capabilities?

Who would want desktop capabilities?! Are you really asking that? 1) aren't we and haven't we always been trying to mimic tons of desktop like capabilities on the smartphone? Browsing? Full keyboards? Emails? Watching media? Information? Forms of communications? Games?! And 2) again what fear is this that we shouldn't want desktop like abilities because they'll be the same and who wants those legacy features? Are we not still using desktops today? But you know what? Hey sure, come up with better ways. Until then why not let us have the features you could so easily add?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if many people here are actually apple fans or own apple products even if they don't use the iPhone. Macs. Macbooks. IPads. IPods. Apple TV. Etc. People don't want to see apple fail. Or ios fall behind. People want to simpy see them compete at a higher level now that the smartphone competition is getting so tight and so serious and arguably leaping ahead of apple in many ways. How is that a bad thing?

Just rubbish arguments and apologies from so many people here. And worse, they think they're the real apple fans when they're actually the worse types; the ones that derail any serious conversation about apples shortcomings.

 

[epicrayban]

I put this example out there again to prove my point that branding is largely responsible for carrying apple.

Please imagine the tables turned. In a world where apple is the one that first introduces larger screen devices with multiple options, first to add more ram, continue to add higher mega pixel counts to their cameras, first to offer waterproof smartphones, first to offer expandable storage or even easy user replaceable batteries, first to the stylus that's made the Samsung note series so popular, or first to front facing speakers! Imagine apple being the one first to do widgets and customizable software. Imagine them allowing to set any defaults, or first to faster and easier one handed gesture typing. Etc!

And then imagine all their completion sticking to one screen size for multiple years. Or sticking to 1.2 mp front facing cameras or 8mp cameras. Or refusing to offer full email attachments, or not allow users to share to whatever app they want or give them any of the freedoms Apple's given them in this imagined world, etc.

Where would those competitors be? Without the branding and the influence of the media, they'd be gone. Long gone.

But apple gets away with it. They get away with it with record breaking sales.

There are many things we should be thankful that apple started and influenced. There is no doubt that their reputation and strong branding is arguably deserved. More power to them. But there should also be no doubt that the competition has caught up in most areas and in some have even surpassed them wildly. And despite sales, that's not something to ignore when the user experience on the iPhone is starting to feel dated and unequipped.

 

[jamezr]

No, but I don't agree with his criticism either.



He was asking about why Apple's profits should even be used as evidence, and I answered it. It's proof that Apple is indeed doing something very right. Instead of always laughing that Apple is doomed if it doesn't do X, why not try to understand why Apple is instead doing

But I think you miss some of the points others have made. I can say Apple needs to add certain features. That doesn't mean if they don't add those features they are doomed. It means I would love to see those features and they might even sell more products if they added thesis features.
Look at a lot of features they have lagged behind the rest of the mobile space like larger screens. That was a game changer for them.

 

[I7guy]

This site is about Apple. Not a Fortune 500 forum.

You can't say on one hand apple is greedy and then stop. In reality with that regard they want to earn as much as they can as does every other company. You can try to pigeonhole the conversation but can't be talked about in a vacuum.

 

[I7guy]

Who is trolling here? People want to see the iPhone compete at the rate that the competition is competing, firstly in the hardware front, and secondly in the software front.

And the problem is we run inevitably into apologists who always say some form of or combination of 1) apple doesn't need to because of sales or 2) apple doesn't need to because I don't mind that type of hardware and/or I don't happen to need that specific software feature(s).

My specific argument is that apples success is riding largely on its reputation and branding and not necessarily its end user experience. The branding is incredibly strong, strong enough that apple can compete at their own pace. And I fear that it is folly to let them get away with that; a mistake that ultimately detracts from the end user experience.

1gb or ram?
1.2 front camera?
Even the 8mp on back is starting to sound low (in camera comparisons and tests, the iPhone always loses out when testing zoom quality and details).
The screen (have you seen it side by side next to the s6 at all?)
No form of wireless charging or quick charge (do you know how convenient these features are?)

And in the software side, inconsistent back button placements and gestures; messy and inconsistent settings; no full email attachments; no real customization that can lead to better and more personal functionality; and more...

Again, the "worlds most advanced mobile operating system." Sure, there's something to be said for marketing but that is an outright lie. And all people can say when that disconnect is brought up are excuses.

All i7guy can say is that his workflow doesn't need said features. Great for you but its not just about you. We're discussing a future ios that can make more than just you happy. It can make people who need or would like certain features happy too. And then to argue in such a way and still dare espouse the importance of individualism and personal use; what kind of incongruous argument is that?

Or others of the same ilk trying to draw straw man arguments that people are saying apple is doomed or somehow ios and android will now suddenly be exactly the same and oh what a boring world that would be. Or who would want to mimic desktop like capabilities?

Who would want desktop capabilities?! Are you really asking that? 1) aren't we and haven't we always been trying to mimic tons of desktop like capabilities on the smartphone? Browsing? Full keyboards? Emails? Watching media? Information? Forms of communications? Games?! And 2) again what fear is this that we shouldn't want desktop like abilities because they'll be the same and who wants those legacy features? Are we not still using desktops today? But you know what? Hey sure, come up with better ways. Until then why not let us have the features you could so easily add?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if many people here are actually apple fans or own apple products even if they don't use the iPhone. Macs. Macbooks. IPads. IPods. Apple TV. Etc. People don't want to see apple fail. Or ios fall behind. People want to simpy see them compete at a higher level now that the smartphone competition is getting so tight and so serious and arguably leaping ahead of apple in many ways. How is that a bad thing?

Just rubbish arguments and apologies from so many people here. And worse, they think they're the real apple fans when they're actually the worse types; the ones that derail any serious conversation about apples shortcomings.

This whole post is a straw man argument. Starting out with people, which people? All 40 million iPhone 6 users? Some posters on an Internet forum? Who is your target audience that wants all of these changes? Apologists? Gawd!

I am expecting some type of upgrades between iOS 9 and iPhone 6s: I can almost guarantee its not going to be every item your wish list. I think you'll get some camera mp bumps and who know what the specs for the internals are?

Serious conversation about apples shortcomings? Okay your opinion. We each spend our money differently and have different needs.

If you want to think Apple is riding on its coat tails okay by me. None of this discussion matters because Apple is going to do what Apple does. Saying it on an Internet forum is not going to change their mind.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

This whole post is a straw man argument. Starting out with people, which people? All 40 million iPhone 6 users? Some posters on an Internet forum? Who is your target audience that wants all of these changes? Apologists? Gawd!

I am expecting some type of upgrades between iOS 9 and iPhone 6s: I can almost guarantee its not going to be every item your wish list. I think you'll get some camera mp bumps and who know what the specs for the internals are?

Serious conversation about apples shortcomings? Okay your opinion. We each spend our money differently and have different needs.

Actually, it is all 40 million iPhone 6 users. Everyone upgraded from a previous iPhone or another brand phone to the iPhone 6 or 6+. Reason being is Apple is a master at promoting incremental upgrades like it's a whole other device or OS. They are good at advertising the simple things and make it come across as a major evolution.

Apple makes the average user feel like they have a phone that's top of the tech chain, when most of us tech heads know that's not true. If most of the average consumers knew that, and had true knowledge about competitors, iPhone sales would probably be at least 30% less than what it is today.

Yes, the average iPhone user probably just calls, texts, email, and listen to music the majority of the time. And that's pretty much how Apple wants the majority of it's consumers habits to stay. Cause once the majority of consumers demand the openness that Android has, Apple will be in trouble.

I'm not bashing the iPhone, it's a damn good smartphone. I'm just calling it like I see it. The average consumer can't demand what they are clueless about. But how long will that last?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The way I see it is these smartphones including the iPhone 6 are packed with features, many of which the average consumer chooses not to use too. I don't use Siri, voice texting, shake to delete, many of the photo filters to name a few but I know they exist.

The average user makes up most of the global market and feature demands have plateaued in recent years. I agree it's nice to have extra options, just as long as it doesn't ruin the ease of use of a device by crowding a screen full of settings like I've seen on a few devices. That can be a turn off regardless of whether it allows so much more freedom.

I think there are consumers who are clueless, there are consumers who don't care and there are consumers who love gadgets and can't understand why others don't see it the same way. The biggest selling point of the iPhone that I hear repeated is its ease of use and set up. It's a clean interface and there's no fuss. The customer service is also excellent and friendly to people of all ages with workshops offered and approachable staff for advice. I think it's more than just the physical device that attracts people to the iPhone.

 

[I7guy]

Actually, it is all 40 million iPhone 6 users. Everyone upgraded from a previous iPhone or another brand phone to the iPhone 6 or 6+. Reason being is Apple is a master at promoting incremental upgrades like it's a whole other device or OS. They are good at advertising the simple things and make it come across as a major evolution.

Apple makes the average user feel like they have a phone that's top of the tech chain, when most of us tech heads know that's not true. If most of the average consumers knew that, and had true knowledge about competitors, iPhone sales would probably be at least 30% less than what it is today.

Yes, the average iPhone user probably just calls, texts, email, and listen to music the majority of the time. And that's pretty much how Apple wants the majority of it's consumers habits to stay. Cause once the majority of consumers demand the openness that Android has, Apple will be in trouble.

I'm not bashing the iPhone, it's a damn good smartphone. I'm just calling it like I see it. The average consumer can't demand what they are clueless about. But how long will that last?

In that case let's be honest; all the upgrades from the S6 fit into the same category.

You missed the point. Most people didn't upgrade to the iphone 6 because the email system was updated to handle any attachment, any time.

Most people wanted a new device with updated hardware and possibly the updated functionality of IOS 8.

Samsung supposedly sold a bunch of S6 phones on launch, why do you think that happened? Is it possibly the same rational as you are proposing as to why the iphone 6 launch was so popular?

You did get one thing totally incorrect: "They are good at advertising the simple things and make it come across as a major evolution." Touch ID anyone? Best integrated finger print scanner to date. Ipod? Put apple on the map and no they didn't invent the MP3 player. What apple is good at is innovating. They don't slam in hardware for bragging rights, which is why IMO their phones are a joy to use. (Not to mention the after sale support)

 

[SusanK]

You can't say on one hand apple is greedy and then stop. In reality with that regard they want to earn as much as they can as does every other company. You can try to pigeonhole the conversation but can't be talked about in a vacuum.

My reference to greed at Apple was an experience with Apple Care. The rep made no attempt to gather any info on device, customer. He just start blowing about damage. That's stupid. He lost a sale at the beginning. I do not reward rudeness or stupidity with dollars.

I read post on this site all the time about devices damaged by liquids, impact. Is Apple not capable of repairing a device that is damaged?

The Mac needed an I/O board. I don't know why the USB port no longer accepted a cable. I didn't care. I just wanted it fixed. I expect to pay for service.

MicroCenter was professional and earned the business.

The dummy at AC could have ascertained that the Mac was out of warranty. The Mac has a serial number the last time I checked. He chose not to do so. Rudeness does not generate sales.

 

[Michael Goff]

My reference to greed at Apple was an experience with Apple Care. The rep made no attempt to gather any info on device, customer. He just start blowing about damage. That's stupid. He lost a sale at the beginning. I do not reward rudeness or stupidity with dollars.

I read post on this site all the time about devices damaged by liquids, impact. Is Apple not capable of repairing a device that is damaged?

The Mac needed an I/O board. I don't know why the USB port no longer accepted a cable. I didn't care. I just wanted it fixed. I expect to pay for service.

MicroCenter was professional and earned the business.

The dummy at AC could have ascertained that the Mac was out of warranty. The Mac has a serial number the last time I checked. He chose not to do so. Rudeness does not generate sales.

I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle on this one. Some people are so tied to the mythos of the perfect AC that they won't even entertain the notion that it might be anything less.

 

[SusanK]

I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle on this one. Some people are so tied to the mythos of the perfect AC that they won't even entertain the notion that it might be anything less.

You're right. Thank you for the post. Much appreciated.

 

[Michael Goff]

You're right. Thank you for the post. Much appreciated.

I am likely much the same way for other things, to be honest. Everyone finds something they truly like and they will defend it until they can't anymore. I don't mean to single out anyone specifically.

 

[jamezr]

I'm not bashing the iPhone, it's a damn good smartphone. I'm just calling it like I see it. The average consumer can't demand what they are clueless about. But how long will that last?

The average Apple consumer is clueless about features. That is until Apple presents a new to Apple feature at a new product launch. Then the feature is ground braking and innovative. Even though the feature existed everywhere else for sometime.

 

[SusanK]

I am likely much the same way for other things, to be honest. Everyone finds something they truly like and they will defend it until they can't anymore. I don't mean to single out anyone specifically.

Understood. Thank you again!