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Capture One Pro as an alternative/upgrade to Aperture
- Thread starter VirtualRain
- Start date
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Yeah, nice update... fixes the issues I was having with previews on my 4K display.
I'm not sure how to make use of this new 3-way colour editor. I tried some of the presets and they seem interesting but nothing I would use regularly. What about you?
Anyone else got some ideas on how/when to use this 3-way colour editor?
Full release notes here... http://www.phaseone.com/Apsis/Capture-One-8-2-Release-Notes.pdf
Major Enhancements:
What's "Dynamic Locations"?
Thank you
I assume you were asking Virtual but I can but in. Your GPU needs to be able to push 3840 x 2160 to make use of the "4k" capability. I'm guessing yours does since I think you have a Mac Pro. My GPU will only go to 2560 x 1440 so I could use a 4k display but I would not be making full use of it.
I've been looking at monitors a lot and have noticed the crazy price swings in the US from one retailer to another. Not sure why. Most of the large retailers are close though. Another one to consider might be the ASUS PB287Q 28-Inch Screen LED-Lit 4K Monitor. It can be found for a similar price as the Dell and is reviewed very well. I've settled on the ASUS Pro Graphics 24" (not 4k). I've read many reviews from pro photographers who were impressed with the color accuracy of the top end ASUS displays so for the price I will give them a shot.[/QUOTE]
The Asus you mention unfortunately is not an ISP model so not good with colour; more suited to gamers as has 1ms refresh.
You where right my question was meant for VR, should have made that clear, sorry.
So if reading this VR please rsvp if you can spare the time. Grateful I will be!
Regards
I assume you were asking Virtual but I can but in. Your GPU needs to be able to push 3840 x 2160 to make use of the "4k" capability. I'm guessing yours does since I think you have a Mac Pro. My GPU will only go to 2560 x 1440 so I could use a 4k display but I would not be making full use of it.
I've been looking at monitors a lot and have noticed the crazy price swings in the US from one retailer to another. Not sure why. Most of the large retailers are close though. Another one to consider might be the ASUS PB287Q 28-Inch Screen LED-Lit 4K Monitor. It can be found for a similar price as the Dell and is reviewed very well. I've settled on the ASUS Pro Graphics 24" (not 4k). I've read many reviews from pro photographers who were impressed with the color accuracy of the top end ASUS displays so for the price I will give them a shot.[/QUOTE]
The Asus you mention unfortunately is not an ISP model so not good with colour; more suited to gamers as has 1ms refresh.
You where right my question was meant for VR, should have made that clear, sorry.
So if reading this VR please rsvp if you can spare the time. Grateful I will be!
Regards
Hey there, I have a 2013 nMP with D500 GPUs which supports two 4K displays at 60Hz (And a 3rd at 30Hz but I don't need more than two
). There are a lot of issues with people getting 4K 60Hz running on the cMP... see the Mac Pro forum for the latest. I normally run my 4K displays at a scaled retina resolution of 3008x1690 but when I do photo editing in C1, I switch to native resolution (3840x2160)... it makes the controls a bit small, but I'm getting 1:1 pixel viewing at 100% zoom.
There's a good summary of what's new in 8.2 here...
http://imagealchemist.net/what-is-new-in-capture-one-pro-8-2/
http://imagealchemist.net/what-is-new-in-capture-one-pro-8-2/
The Asus you mention unfortunately is not an ISP model so not good with colour; more suited to gamers as has 1ms refresh.
You where right my question was meant for VR, should have made that clear, sorry.
So if reading this VR please rsvp if you can spare the time. Grateful I will be!
Regards[/QUOTE]
Yup....sorry, I was associating it with the series that I'm looking at, the PA27 and PA24 monitors which are IPS and are down to about delta E >2 on color accuracy. They fooled me with some of the LR like screen shots on their website.
Hey there, I have a 2013 nMP with D500 GPUs which supports two 4K displays at 60Hz (And a 3rd at 30Hz but I don't need more than two
I normally run my 4K displays at a scaled retina resolution of 3008x1690 but when I do photo editing in C1, I switch to native resolution (3840x2160)... it makes the controls a bit small, but I'm getting 1:1 pixel viewing at 100% zoom.
Hey VR, can you guys educate me because I've never gotten that deep into screen resolutions vs the image from the camera. When you say 1:1 at 100% do you mean at your monitors native resolution you are already at 1:1? Or do you mean when you zoom in you are at a true 1:1? I can't do the math in public but wouldn't a 24mp camera produce an image larger at 1:1 than a 4k display.
Follow on....on any monitor (even my 15" MBP) if you zoom to 100% are you getting a true 1:1 look at the image? Granted the screen itself will have a lot to say about the image quality (or lack thereof) but the pixels themselves are at 1:1 in comparison to the RAW file?
Just installed and had to leave for work so haven't really had a chance to see what the new bits are like yet.
A little more info from the website...
Color Grading
The Color balance tool in Capture One 8.2 has received an exciting injection of creativity allowing the most advanced color grading possibilities in any RAW converter.
In Capture One 8.2, individual Color Balance changes can be made to the Shadows, Midtones or Highlights. The tool gives you huge creative potential for color grading of an image in an easy-to-use and accessible interface. No knowledge of color blending is required, simply choose the required hue and how much impact it will have on the selected tone.
Dynamic Locations
Dynamic Locations are an extension of the already powerful file handling available in Capture One Pro. The location of imported and exported files can be dynamically modified, simply by using a set of Tokens. Dynamic Locations will fully streamline the import and output process on busy shoots with demanding deadlines.
Edit Photos in External Applications
Perform additional editing, retouching or photo manipulation in external applications with just a few clicks. When you are done the edited images will be saved right back into your session or catalog for future safekeeping. Future edits on those images will also be reflected and updates in the session or catalog.
I didn't think the ability to edit in external applications was new. 8.1 could do that. Perhaps its just smoother.
Sorry, that was a bit confusing... you're right... every normal display is 1:1 at 100% which means that 1 pixel in your image is represented by 1 pixel on the display. So running my 4K display at native resolution is no different than any other normal display.
Where this gets a bit messy is with Retina screens, particularly scaled retina settings...
If you run your retina display at "Best for Display" then as you probably know, most UI elements and text are rendered with twice the number of pixels as usual to provide that extra sharpness while most image editing apps will not scale the image... (although strangely Preview seems to for me)... instead they will use the full resolution available. So 100% zoom should still provide you 1:1 if your image editing app is Retina aware. (Except in Preview where 100% zoom is actually like 200% zoom - last I checked).
Where this 1:1 relationship at 100% is not true, is when your run a retina screen at a scaled resolution. In this case, Apple's scaling algorithm renders the desktop at twice the selected resolution before downsampling it to the display resolution. This means you're not seeing a true 1:1 representation at 100% zoom. It's not a big issue, just something to be aware of.
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Thanks. I'm still interested in hearing a use case for the colour balance tool.
You're absolutely right about the external applications feature... that was added in 8.1 and I've tested it extensively with NIK over the last couple of months. It's very possible that they didn't modify anything about that feature and just wanted it to get more visibility although on the Phase One forums, I saw someone mention that TIFF importing performance has improved, so maybe there is something new there.
This is an interesting one, I can't see anything different so you may be right re it be a re-launch.
I still can't get round-tripping to work with the Macphun suite (Intensify, Tonality etc). Puzzlingly the tiff gets created and is in the C1 catalogue, Intensify opens and loads the tiff. Once finished though saving the tiff means the Intensify save dialog box opens but not at the correct file in the Catalogue, but if I take the Intensify Show Current File option is does show the correct file in the C1 Catalogue...
I would have raised this with both C1 and Macphun but I haven't loaded any of the suite in anger since finding C1 was equally as powerful (but with the effort of round-tripping removed). I'd only use it now to compare results as a learning exercise.
I have used the NIK suite with C1 8.1 and it has roundtripped fine. A little slow sometimes but the edited tiff makes it back to the catalog. The only thing I think I noticed that is new is now the edit with drop down menu includes all of the NIK programs. Before I would have to choose "other" and navigate to SilverFX. Maybe now it's "officially" supported.
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Thanks VR. I may be off but with Retina screens doubling and downsizing the image does that mean you could possibly be seeing an artificially sharpened image vs what is in the RAW file. Or perhaps it's the opposite when you use a scaled resolution.
I looked at the color balance tool and it seems to be a pretty powerful way to effect the tone and coloring in the 3 parts of the image. Perhaps more so for going for a particular effect versus fixing a color. Not sure. I'll have to play with it more. It doesn't seem to be available for local adjustments though and that's where I think it might be more useful for me. I still don't completely understand the "Dynamic Locations" yet either. I upgraded without losing my catalog so that's a plus
Yes VR mentioned it was working for him with the NIK suite way back in this thread, I think it is Macphun's handling of the file location it is opened with, it doesn't seem to acknowledge the file path that is passed to it by C1.
No matter, for the times I will use it now, "manual" will do.
4K 0n D300 confirmation - Please
Thank you all for your informative answers so far.
What I really seek is a bit of "Peace of Mind".
Does anyone run a 4K, IPS, >24", 60Hz, RGB,SST [I think thats all] display on a nMP with D300 GPUs without any glitches ??????
I would be inordinately grateful to anyone who can respond definitively
Many thanks in nervous anticipation.
Thank you all for your informative answers so far.
What I really seek is a bit of "Peace of Mind".
Does anyone run a 4K, IPS, >24", 60Hz, RGB,SST [I think thats all
] display on a nMP with D300 GPUs without any glitches ??????I would be inordinately grateful to anyone who can respond definitively
Many thanks in nervous anticipation.
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Thank you all for your informative answers so far.
What I really seek is a bit of "Peace of Mind".
Does anyone run a 4K, IPS, >24", 60Hz, RGB,SST [I think thats all
I would be inordinately grateful to anyone who can respond definitively
Many thanks in nervous anticipation.
I have a pair of Dell 4K P2715Q displays on my nMP (D500s) without issues. From what I understand the D300s also handle 4K no problems. The only issue I have with 4K is that some software performance can be a bit underwhelming at 4K... for example, Capture One Pro is a bit slower to refresh the viewer when making adjustments at 4K than it is on a smaller display.
There's a lengthy thread on the Dell 4K displays in the Peripherals forum. The only people having issues are those trying to drive a 4K on older laptops that aren't really capable. nMP is no problem.
C1 update
Thank you for that.
Still a bit nervous about the D300 [been caught out before having chosen base config-you would think I would learn]
However has the latest C1 upgrade faced the slowing display issue that you know of??
Congrats. on achieving almost genius level(real one) in my eyes both sorting my C1 adventure AND my display upgrade. Simply Worthy!
Thanks
Sharkey
Thank you for that.
Still a bit nervous about the D300 [been caught out before having chosen base config-you would think I would learn
]However has the latest C1 upgrade faced the slowing display issue that you know of??
Congrats. on achieving almost genius level(real one) in my eyes both sorting my C1 adventure AND my display upgrade. Simply Worthy!
Thanks
Sharkey
Capture One Pro as an alternative/upgrade to Aperture
LOL... Thanks.
The performance definitely improved in 8.2 but not as much as I'd like and not not what I was use to in Aperture. It went from nearly unusable to very usable with a bit of patience. Just realize you're trading performance for added resolution... Nothing comes free on the bleeding edge
Thank you for that.
Still a bit nervous about the D300 [been caught out before having chosen base config-you would think I would learn
However has the latest C1 upgrade faced the slowing display issue that you know of??
Congrats. on achieving almost genius level(real one) in my eyes both sorting my C1 adventure AND my display upgrade. Simply Worthy!
Thanks
Sharkey
LOL... Thanks.
The performance definitely improved in 8.2 but not as much as I'd like and not not what I was use to in Aperture. It went from nearly unusable to very usable with a bit of patience. Just realize you're trading performance for added resolution... Nothing comes free on the bleeding edge
I was doing some photos this evening in Capture One Pro 8.2 and wow... the brush is so much smoother now! No lag. Loving it!
Are you photographing for yourself or for money, or for some other reason?
I would really like to do more but I am afraid depression bites hardest when it is time to leave the house.
I find myself working on images 20yrs old rather than going out to get new stuff.
Frustrating is not a strong enough description.
Anyways up looking at the productive members sometime boots my a**e enough to get out - so keep posting images everyone. It is a really therapeutic contribution you are all making to this sad old lumps future.
Many Thanks
Sharkey
Are you photographing for yourself or for money, or for some other reason?
I would really like to do more but I am afraid depression bites hardest when it is time to leave the house.
I find myself working on images 20yrs old rather than going out to get new stuff.
Frustrating is not a strong enough description.
Anyways up looking at the productive members sometime boots my a**e enough to get out - so keep posting images everyone. It is a really therapeutic contribution you are all making to this sad old lumps future.
Many Thanks
Sharkey
Hey Sharkey, I know you asked VR but I like putting my .02 in. It's an internet forum right
. I would love to make a little off of photography but I think I really got into it for wanting to preserve a moment or a memory. Because of instances in my life I have a profound sense (maybe obsession) with the passing of time. Each day is an absolute gift but it goes by so fast. Taking pictures feels important because it somehow preserves those moments. That and simply for the sake of art or producing something worthwhile or aesthetic and sharing it with others who didn't see it in person.My "production" ebbs and flows with my motivation and schedule. Sometimes I get photography withdrawals because I haven't been shooting and I feel there's nothing I want to go shoot. That's usually when a goal of some sort helps (a project). I dream one up or sometimes participating in the weekly contests gets the motor going. Start small and let it grow, maybe.
I know everyone on the forum would be thrilled to see some more of your work and I also, personally, find photography pretty therapeutic in it's own right.
Are you photographing for yourself or for money, or for some other reason?
I would really like to do more but I am afraid depression bites hardest when it is time to leave the house.
I find myself working on images 20yrs old rather than going out to get new stuff.
Frustrating is not a strong enough description.
Anyways up looking at the productive members sometime boots my a**e enough to get out - so keep posting images everyone. It is a really therapeutic contribution you are all making to this sad old lumps future.
Many Thanks
Sharkey
Hey Sharkey, I shoot for myself. My day job sadly has nothing to do with photography. Photography is just a hobby. But being a tech/computer geek and a travel buff makes photography the ideal hobby for me as it engages me at many levels: technology and gear, artistically, and socially - if you can call this social
. Photography also adds an extra dimension to my travels as I view them as photography assignments. As JDDavis says, my photography also ebbs and flows with my schedule and other things going on in my life. However this year, I've committed to going on one long walk every weekend to be more active, and I've been taking my camera with me which forces me to try and "see" things rather than walking with blinders on. It also means that every week I have some new photos. It motivates me to get out for a walk and ensures I always have some new material to work on. It's a win-win.
Really ???
I see no difference and brushing in C1 is painfully laggy more kind of 4 fps vs. 30 fps in Aperture.
I don't see any difference in speed with OpenCL on or off in C1. I even had OpenGL Driver Monitor running and don't see a significant change in GPU utilization with OpenCL on or off in C1. I wonder whether they use the GPU for acceleration at all.
Tests done on a Hexacore cMP with either a Radeon 7950 or a NVIDIA GTX 980.
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show stoppers in C1
A couple of show stoppers in C1 at least for me:
1.) No handling of RAW/JPEG pairs. Well you can hide all RAWs or all JPEGs but what I need is a per image decision, whether I prefer the JPEG or the RAW, as you can do in Aperture.
2.) No roundtripping to external editors using the Photoshop file format. That makes C1 almost useless for people, who like to use OnOnes software or do advanced editing in Photoshop. Nowadays you use smart layers in these apps to preserve your edits and that is impossible, if C1 cannot deal with the Photoshop file format. Furthermore the option to open several images as layers in these editors is key to do blending, HDR etc.
3.) No geotagging and map representation of images. It adds to your creativity, if you easily can combine shots from different projects which are geographically related, like shots you had taken years ago at the same location. Having a map that shows all your shots in that area is really helpful without having to get over organized with keywording.
4.) Probably not a real showstopper but a real annoyance: The handling of folders aka collections. They do not show the images they contain. Silly!
5.) Bad performance when brushing adjustments in and panning around in 100% view. IMHO GPU acceleration doesn't work at all, despite the existence of OPENCL settings in C1's preferences.
6.) Stacks are only implemented as versions of the same master. There are tons of other uses for stacks, like stacking RAWs with TIFFs/PSDs from a roundtrip, stacking panorama shots / HDR shots, stacking a burst of shots to find the best moment, stacking individual shot of the same object to find the best perspective etc. Aperture did it right with allowing you to choose, what you want to stack, not just versions of the same image.
7.) No individual album picks. Obviously Phase One thinks, there is always only one best version of a picture for all applications and that becomes the stack pick. That is wrong. I might need a 3:2 version for viewing on my 27" display, a 4:3 version for my iPad, a 16:9 version for my TV, probably a B/W version for a print etc. But they all link to the same RAW file with the same metadata. If you change the pick in a stack it changes in all you albums, which makes no sense.
8) In Aperture, a project functions as a physical container for its content. Thus it is easy and intuitive to move projects as kind of sublibraries between machines. In C1 a project is just a virtual container, like an album or a folder. Not sure whether you can transfer projects between libraries without generating duplicates or loose edits. At least the strict concept in Aperture of projects being the physical container of their contents is very straightforward.
If Phase One fixes at least half of these, I might switch to C1.
If you find these as show stoppers as well, probably nag Phase One so they get aware of these shortcomings and hopefully fix them asap.
A couple of show stoppers in C1 at least for me:
1.) No handling of RAW/JPEG pairs. Well you can hide all RAWs or all JPEGs but what I need is a per image decision, whether I prefer the JPEG or the RAW, as you can do in Aperture.
2.) No roundtripping to external editors using the Photoshop file format. That makes C1 almost useless for people, who like to use OnOnes software or do advanced editing in Photoshop. Nowadays you use smart layers in these apps to preserve your edits and that is impossible, if C1 cannot deal with the Photoshop file format. Furthermore the option to open several images as layers in these editors is key to do blending, HDR etc.
3.) No geotagging and map representation of images. It adds to your creativity, if you easily can combine shots from different projects which are geographically related, like shots you had taken years ago at the same location. Having a map that shows all your shots in that area is really helpful without having to get over organized with keywording.
4.) Probably not a real showstopper but a real annoyance: The handling of folders aka collections. They do not show the images they contain. Silly!
5.) Bad performance when brushing adjustments in and panning around in 100% view. IMHO GPU acceleration doesn't work at all, despite the existence of OPENCL settings in C1's preferences.
6.) Stacks are only implemented as versions of the same master. There are tons of other uses for stacks, like stacking RAWs with TIFFs/PSDs from a roundtrip, stacking panorama shots / HDR shots, stacking a burst of shots to find the best moment, stacking individual shot of the same object to find the best perspective etc. Aperture did it right with allowing you to choose, what you want to stack, not just versions of the same image.
7.) No individual album picks. Obviously Phase One thinks, there is always only one best version of a picture for all applications and that becomes the stack pick. That is wrong. I might need a 3:2 version for viewing on my 27" display, a 4:3 version for my iPad, a 16:9 version for my TV, probably a B/W version for a print etc. But they all link to the same RAW file with the same metadata. If you change the pick in a stack it changes in all you albums, which makes no sense.
8) In Aperture, a project functions as a physical container for its content. Thus it is easy and intuitive to move projects as kind of sublibraries between machines. In C1 a project is just a virtual container, like an album or a folder. Not sure whether you can transfer projects between libraries without generating duplicates or loose edits. At least the strict concept in Aperture of projects being the physical container of their contents is very straightforward.
If Phase One fixes at least half of these, I might switch to C1.
If you find these as show stoppers as well, probably nag Phase One so they get aware of these shortcomings and hopefully fix them asap.
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Usual Dumb Question
I seem to remember reading prior to getting C1 that by keeping my originals external to C1 and building my library inside C1 I would on startup be able to browse and even edit my images without the external HD my primary images are on being connected.
I think that is 'referenced'?
Yes/No - what have I missed?
Thank you
Sharkey
I seem to remember reading prior to getting C1 that by keeping my originals external to C1 and building my library inside C1 I would on startup be able to browse and even edit my images without the external HD my primary images are on being connected.
I think that is 'referenced'?
Yes/No - what have I missed?
Thank you
Sharkey
Hmm... I've definitely seen an improvement between 8.1 and 8.2 on my Mac, but I'm using a 4K display so that may have been a factor. Brushing is now lag free for me whereas it was a bit laggy in 8.1.
Performance overall has improved for me in 8.2... everything from advancing through images in the browser to making adjustments has less delay. I have no issues with panning around images in the viewer... even on a 4K display. I also have two 4K displays and in 8.1 I never used my secondary display and in 8.2 I can now have the viewer/browser on my primary and a 100% zoom view on my secondary without bogging things down. So I'm fairly happy with performance. Although I still notice some lag when you start layering on adjustments... for example, I have one image with 7 local adjustment layers and making further adjustments to it now is an exercise in patience but that's going to be a rare situation for me.
I also wonder if OpenCL is actually doing anything. Someone in the PhaseOne forums said it helps most with exports which could explain why I don't notice it as I'm usually only exporting a handful of images at a time. I'm still not convinced it's not just a placebo
As for your other issues with C1, I don't have any counter-points to offer you... I don't have any of those requirements. I assume LR is a better choice for you given your PS needs?
One more thing... I don't know if you can move projects between catalogs... a good question (if you want to work on a project on your laptop and then add it to your main catalog on you Mac Pro)... I'll have to look into that. However, I actually prefer the way C1 manages photos over Aperture. The C1 model is a little more simple conceptually... all photos live in the catalog and the organization structure simply defines views into it. It's much more like iTunes handles music with playlists.
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