Capture One Pro as an alternative/upgrade to Aperture

[Ted Witcher]

I use DxO with Lightroom. Or standalone. It has a browser, but that's about it. C1P has essentially a grafted on media organizer (I can't remember its name) with their RAW processing features, so it's apples to half apples, sort of.

The DxO workflow with LR is superb, especially the DNG option. Gives you much more control. And the standout features for me are perspective controls, lens adjustments (you only have to download the stuff for your equipment), and the haze, noise and lighting controls. It has a better de-hazer than anything else IMHO.

What happens when you use a dng to slingshot to DxO and back? LR reads the dng -- with all the changes you made in DxO? How did they manage that coding trick?

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Are you creating the structure in the catalog or in the User Collection area? This, of course, is different in that if you are creating folders in the catalog you are creating "real" folders on your hard drive and moving files. If you are creating folders and such in the user collection area it's all "virtual"...if you will.

I haven't experienced what you did but it seems Aperture did something similar if you used Smart Albums. A project would have all the files and Smart Albums would duplicate certain sets. I believe Capture 1 works the same way.

So far I'm experimenting with using just Folders and Smart Albums in the User Collection area and maintaining a single Capture 1 Catalog. It's working ok and if you are diligent with using keywords it gives you a lot of flexibility in how to create Smart Albums. I'm a little concerned with a single C1 catalog but that's how I had Aperture set up and it was fine. One thing that's a bit annoying with Smart Albums is that you can't use the Edit With function (send to NIK for example) when you are in a Smart Album. Not sure why, but you have to go to the image in the Catalog to use the Edit With function.

Two suggestions to try:

You guys might want to look into organizing by Sessions instead of Catalogs.

If you remain on Catalogs, I've heard that you can get around the speed thing by using one Catalog per shoot, as opposed to continually dumping new images into an existing Catalog so it swells in size.

 

[JDDavis]

Two suggestions to try:

You guys might want to look into organizing by Sessions instead of Catalogs.

If you remain on Catalogs, I've heard that you can get around the speed thing by using one Catalog per shoot, as opposed to continually dumping new images into an existing Catalog so it swells in size.

I've thought about both of those and will have to investigate more. I'm not a pro so I don't necessarily generate images in "sessions" or "shoots". I tend to organize by subject matter that spans multiple dates. As in "Yellowstone" in which I will have images from multiple years. Organizing that way seems to be easier when you use a single catalog.

In Aperture I used a single library (around 100gb) and it didn't really seem to effect the speed. I've heard rumblings of speed issues with C1 Pro with large catalogs. I know others on the board start a new catalog once a year. I also read somewhere that Phase One has acknowledged the speed issue and is working on it.

 

[^^BIGMac]

@VirtualRain...

I am an Aperture user ready to move to C1. Still a little confused about the structurer and the importing from Aperture to C1.

The picture below (Image 1) shows the basic structure of my Aperture library. In some places there are Smart Albums underneath the Projects by year (Image 2)...How exactly will this transfer over using C1's import tool?

Appreciate your advice...

Image 1:

Image 2:

 

[Ted Witcher]

This might be useful as well, using LR for DAM and C1 for RAW processing...

http://statusq.org/archives/2014/12/13/6272/

 

[JDDavis]

This might be useful as well, using LR for DAM and C1 for RAW processing...

http://statusq.org/archives/2014/12/13/6272/

Yikes, my head would explode...not to mention my wallet. I find C1's DAM features more than adequate. I like to reduce the number of DNG, PSD, or TIFFs I have floating around as well. If I can do everything I want inside a single solution non-destructively then that's all I need.

I sure do like C1's RAW processing over Aperture's though. I haven't used LR enough to form a comparison opinion of my own on it's RAW capabilities.

 

[Ted Witcher]

Yikes, my head would explode...not to mention my wallet. I find C1's DAM features more than adequate. I like to reduce the number of DNG, PSD, or TIFFs I have floating around as well. If I can do everything I want inside a single solution non-destructively then that's all I need.

I sure do like C1's RAW processing over Aperture's though. I haven't used LR enough to form a comparison opinion of my own on it's RAW capabilities.

He seems to have gotten it down to be about as simple as can be. Did you check out the video? It's ultimately just a couple of clicks once set up properly.

But yeah, in general I agree. C1's RAW processing far outstrips the others to my eye; at first I thought it was pixel-peeping nonsense, but once I tried it the difference is quite striking and immediately apparent, and this is without zooming into 500% or whatever. And the degree of fine control is, well, way beyond. C1 is, simply, a pro app -- if you spend any time at all watching BTS footage of high-end fashion and editorial photographers (or anybody whose work generally demands medium format), you'll see them using C1 in almost every case. LR is prosumer, and with the added restriction that Adobe can't ever really fully cannabalize PS in features capability.

The DAM part of it is slowly coming along -- it is the newest part of this app, which began as a RAW converter for shooting tethered, as you would in a high-end studio. It is terribly unintuitive. The icons and such are poorly designed. But the pictures look so much better that it is nearly worth a bit of struggle. I think Sessions is the way to go; or using one Catalog per shoot/project. Throwing thousands of images into a single Catalog seems to make it choke. There are definitely growing pains with this thing -- Phase One seems to be a little bit out of their depth in mass-market software engineering. The little things about UI design that Apple reliably does pretty well.

 

[VirtualRain]

@VirtualRain...

I am an Aperture user ready to move to C1. Still a little confused about the structurer and the importing from Aperture to C1.

The picture below (Image 1) shows the basic structure of my Aperture library. In some places there are Smart Albums underneath the Projects by year (Image 2)...How exactly will this transfer over using C1's import tool?

Appreciate your advice...

Image 1:

Image

Image 2:

Image

Hey there...

First off, Smart Albums don't get migrated... you will have to recreate those in Capture One. Although star ratings do carry over making that less painful than it could be.

Secondly, never-mind, I had some some issues with some incompatible images (C1 doesn't like PNG screen caps it seems).

The attached shows that albums within folders come across as expected. Note that you also get a newly created album named after your project which contains all the photos from the Project which you can delete if it's redundant with your existing albums.

 

[VirtualRain]

But yeah, in general I agree. C1's RAW processing far outstrips the others to my eye; at first I thought it was pixel-peeping nonsense, but once I tried it the difference is quite striking and immediately apparent, and this is without zooming into 500% or whatever. And the degree of fine control is, well, way beyond. C1 is, simply, a pro app -- if you spend any time at all watching BTS footage of high-end fashion and editorial photographers (or anybody whose work generally demands medium format), you'll see them using C1 in almost every case. LR is prosumer, and with the added restriction that Adobe can't ever really fully cannabalize PS in features capability.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I've always felt the same but wondering if I'm starting to get a bit biased sometimes So it's always good to hear others opinions as well... especially those who've spent a lot of time with Lightroom since that's the defacto standard for RAW converters.

The DAM part of it is slowly coming along -- it is the newest part of this app, which began as a RAW converter for shooting tethered, as you would in a high-end studio. It is terribly unintuitive. The icons and such are poorly designed. But the pictures look so much better that it is nearly worth a bit of struggle. I think Sessions is the way to go; or using one Catalog per shoot/project. Throwing thousands of images into a single Catalog seems to make it choke. There are definitely growing pains with this thing -- Phase One seems to be a little bit out of their depth in mass-market software engineering. The little things about UI design that Apple reliably does pretty well.

I can't argue that it's slowly coming along and it may be suffering from some performance issues with large catalogs, but I've always tried to keep my Library size (and now Catalog size) reasonable.

I start a new Library/Catalog every year because my shooting is largely trip or outing based so if I need to go back to the photos in Rome from 2011, it's easy for me to load that Library. This allows me to keep my current Library/Catalog on my SSD for top performance... the old ones go on an external.

For others that do subject based photography, this might be a bit more challenging, but maybe having one catalog per subject (e.g. birds, portraits, etc.) might be a way to keep the size manageable?

At any rate, I don't agree with you about the UI design... here's a screen shot of both apps Library management and they are almost identical... The icons for Folders, Projects, Albums, Smart Albums, Trash, and Recent are identical.

 

[Ted Witcher]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts... I've always felt the same but wondering if I'm starting to get a bit biased sometimes So it's always good to hear others opinions as well... especially those who've spent a lot of time with Lightroom since that's the defacto standard for RAW converters.



I can't argue that it's slowly coming along and it may be suffering from some performance issues with large catalogs, but I've always tried to keep my Library size (and now Catalog size) reasonable.

I start a new Library/Catalog every year because my shooting is largely trip or outing based so if I need to go back to the photos in Rome from 2011, it's easy for me to load that Library. This allows me to keep my current Library/Catalog on my SSD for top performance... the old ones go on an external.

For others that do subject based photography, this might be a bit more challenging, but maybe having one catalog per subject (e.g. birds, portraits, etc.) might be a way to keep the size manageable?

At any rate, I don't agree with you about the UI design... here's a screen shot of both apps Library management and they are almost identical... The icons for Folders, Projects, Albums, Smart Albums, Trash, and Recent are identical.

But the icons for adjustments and other functions are not. And I find them hard to read as well, since they're simply outlines in many cases. But yes, C1 is by far top of the heap, all things considered. For most, though, I'm sure LR is suitable enough.

And even if you do subject-based stuff, you can still do what you do: one Catalog per period of time, preferably short, and rely on the metadata functions to isolate your subjects. Birds, portraits, what-have-you. I guess the end goal is to keep the Catalogs as minimal as possible. This is true of LR as well. Sessions, man, Sessions! Give it a try! "Rome 2011"... easy.

 

[VirtualRain]

Sessions, man, Sessions! Give it a try! "Rome 2011"... easy.

LOL... Will check it out!

 

[^^BIGMac]

Hey there...

First off, Smart Albums don't get migrated... you will have to recreate those in Capture One. Although star ratings do carry over making that less painful than it could be.

Secondly, never-mind, I had some some issues with some incompatible images (C1 doesn't like PNG screen caps it seems).

The attached shows that albums within folders come across as expected. Note that you also get a newly created album named after your project which contains all the photos from the Project which you can delete if it's redundant with your existing albums.

Thanks so much. Looks like other than the Smart Albums everything should transfer over fine with the way I have it set up. Just import it into the C1 Catalog and C1 will take care of the rest. Amirite?

 

[VirtualRain]

Thanks so much. Looks like other than the Smart Albums everything should transfer over fine with the way I have it set up. Just import it into the C1 Catalog and C1 will take care of the rest. Amirite?

Yeah, just make sure you backup/copy your Aperture Library first.

Before doing the import, I might also suggest you empty the Aperture trash, close Aperture, and repair your Library... hold Option-Command and double-click your Aperture Library file... this will pop up a box asking if you want to repair... Click Repair.

Then run the C1 Import... it should do it's thing. Let us know how it goes.

 

[^^BIGMac]

Thanks for the help.

 

[VirtualRain]

Thanks for the help.

No problem.

 

[notrack]

Thanks so much. Looks like other than the Smart Albums everything should transfer over fine with the way I have it set up. Just import it into the C1 Catalog and C1 will take care of the rest. Amirite?

Keep in mind that Projects work slightly different in C1. They don't actually contain any images themselves. Where in Aperture you can "move" photos in to a project, C1 projects only hold albums that reference photos from the catalog root. Hence, you can't have a project without albums or with only smart albums. Afaik at import it will then create a new album inside the project with the same title, that will contain all images of the Aperture project.

Also be careful when removing an album inside a project. Those photos won't show up the project any more if they aren't in another album of this project.

In other words, a C1 project displays what is in its group of albums below, whereas in Aperture the project itself holds the photos that can be organised with albums.

 

[^^BIGMac]

Keep in mind that Projects work slightly different in C1. They don't actually contain any images themselves. Where in Aperture you can "move" photos in to a project, C1 projects only hold albums that reference photos from the catalog root. Hence, you can't have a project without albums or with only smart albums. Afaik at import it will then create a new album inside the project with the same title, that will contain all images of the Aperture project.

Also be careful when removing an album inside a project. Those photos won't show up the project any more if they aren't in another album of this project.

In other words, a C1 project displays what is in its group of albums below, whereas in Aperture the project itself holds the photos that can be organised with albums.

May take a little time to get all this terminology down but that's normal with any new program like this.

Thanks Apple!

 

[JDDavis]

He seems to have gotten it down to be about as simple as can be. Did you check out the video? It's ultimately just a couple of clicks once set up properly.

-snip-

LR is prosumer, and with the added restriction that Adobe can't ever really fully cannabalize PS in features capability.

I did but I really don't want or need both. I'm pretty happy with C1's editing capabilities and the things I'm missing from Aperture (or LR) are more nice to have type things. I'm using NIK less now with C1 than with Aperture and I mostly just use SilverFX as I like the B&W conversion better. That's about the only thing I'm going outside of C1 for.

The statement you had (that I snipped) is pretty interesting. I suppose PS does present a bit of an obstacle for LRs expansion. I imagine folks invested in LR like both anyway. Obviously that's what Adobe wants with the Photographer Subscription. Might be a + towards C1 in that they are free to develop as much capability as they want.

 

[notrack]

May take a little time to get all this terminology down but that's normal with any new program like this.

Thanks Apple!

I'm sorry if it sounds confusing. I didn't mean to. It isn't harder but just a liitle different. It's rather easy to get used to.

 

[^^BIGMac]

I'm sorry if it sounds confusing. I didn't mean to. It isn't harder but just a liitle different. It's rather easy to get used to.

Another question...everything I read about importing photos into C1 talks about importing from the SD card. Can you not connect the camera (Canon 70D) directly to the computer and won't C1 recognize it and allow for importing?

 

[Orwells]

Another question...everything I read about importing photos into C1 talks about importing from the SD card. Can you not connect the camera (Canon 70D) directly to the computer and won't C1 recognize it and allow for importing?

I believe that is correct. C1 expects you to import from the SD card using a card reader or from disk. I understand that's best practice anyway.

 

[VirtualRain]

Another question...everything I read about importing photos into C1 talks about importing from the SD card. Can you not connect the camera (Canon 70D) directly to the computer and won't C1 recognize it and allow for importing?

If your camera appears to mount like a drive, you can import from the camera, but some cameras do not behave this way so you would need to use s card reader in that case.

 

[^^BIGMac]

If your camera appears to mount like a drive, you can import from the camera, but some cameras do not behave this way so you would need to use s card reader in that case.

Aperture always imported from my various cameras so I guess we'll see what C1 thinks about it.

Not a big deal either way just a little more convenient sometimes.

 

[Ted Witcher]

I did but I really don't want or need both. I'm pretty happy with C1's editing capabilities and the things I'm missing from Aperture (or LR) are more nice to have type things. I'm using NIK less now with C1 than with Aperture and I mostly just use SilverFX as I like the B&W conversion better. That's about the only thing I'm going outside of C1 for.

The statement you had (that I snipped) is pretty interesting. I suppose PS does present a bit of an obstacle for LRs expansion. I imagine folks invested in LR like both anyway. Obviously that's what Adobe wants with the Photographer Subscription. Might be a + towards C1 in that they are free to develop as much capability as they want.

That's what is apparent to me, though I don't work for Adobe. I don't think that you'll ever see, for example, layers in LR. Why would they do that? C1 (and Aperture before it, which is why we all jumped on) is free to go as far as they want. They have "layers" now... but I'm hoping they'll add true functionality at some point, like opacity and blend mode control. That would be something.

If you're still using SilverFX, which is awesome of course, you might check out http://captureonestyles.com which will further reduce your need to leave the app. (I recommend it only because the grain engine built into C1 is so spectacular it's a shame not to use it.) And there's always Exposure 7 as well.

I will say that I'm sad NIK got orphaned a bit by Google. Nobody has yet devised a simpler method for local adjustments as U-Point/Viveza.

 

[VirtualRain]

If you're still using SilverFX, which is awesome of course, you might check out http://captureonestyles.com which will further reduce your need to leave the app. (I recommend it only because the grain engine built into C1 is so spectacular it's a shame not to use it.) And there's always Exposure 7 as well.

Thanks for pointing that out... I wasn't aware those existed.

I will say that I'm sad NIK got orphaned a bit by Google. Nobody has yet devised a simpler method for local adjustments as U-Point/Viveza.

Amen! I still don't understand Google acquiring NIK... they haven't really done anything with them except keep that awesome innovation from getting into a mainstream RAW converter (which was perhaps their strategy... who knows?!)

 

[notrack]

Aperture always imported from my various cameras so I guess we'll see what C1 thinks about it.

Not a big deal either way just a little more convenient sometimes.

In some camers you can change in the settings as what it should be recognised when connected to a computer. In that case, it can be set to act as a card reader.