Capture One Pro as an alternative/upgrade to Aperture

[Amy Pond and me]

No, in Lightroom sliders remain in the position you have set them as well, don't go back to center. Edit History is useful as a reminder of what you've done and a very fast way to go back to a predetermined position after you've tried a series of changes that eventually went nowhere. I know this can be done differently in Capture One, but History is so convenient and would be so easy to implement that's a mistery to me they haven't done it.

This omission notwithstanding, these years I've tested several releases of Capture One and for the first time I feel it is in a position to really challenge LR in most aspects and not only image quality, which has been always very good.

 

[FredT2]

My point was that by looking at the adjustment brick, you can see that you did. You can not only see you adjusted the exposure, but that you increased it 1 stop, and you can now decrease it without undoing everything since then. Or you can undo anything and everything you feel may have taken your image in an undesirable direction. In this way, the living history in the adjustments, is more flexible than a simple history list.

I don't use history very often, but it can be useful in a couple of different scenarios:

1. Sometimes when I'm working on a photo I want to compare what I've done with some earlier step. To do that I can select a particular step from history and copy the setting to the "Before" version of an A/B comparison. One could also take snapshots from a variety of history points and compare several versions.

2. Once in a while if I want to explore taking a photo in different directions without losing the current state, I'll make a virtual copy from some point in history and then and then edit the copy.

The combination of history with snapshots and virtual copies can be quite powerful.

 

[v3rlon]

C1 Pro seems to be upgrading at ~2 year cycles
September 2014
November 2012
November 2010

It makes the subscription method look mathematically advantageous.

 

[VirtualRain]

I don't use history very often, but it can be useful in a couple of different scenarios:

1. Sometimes when I'm working on a photo I want to compare what I've done with some earlier step. To do that I can select a particular step from history and copy the setting to the "Before" version of an A/B comparison. One could also take snapshots from a variety of history points and compare several versions.

2. Once in a while if I want to explore taking a photo in different directions without losing the current state, I'll make a virtual copy from some point in history and then and then edit the copy.

The combination of history with snapshots and virtual copies can be quite powerful.

I see. Makes sense.

----------

C1 Pro seems to be upgrading at ~2 year cycles
September 2014
November 2012
November 2010

It makes the subscription method look mathematically advantageous.

Hmm, I'm glad you brought that up... I've been wondering about that also. Assuming you buy around now and a new version comes every two years hereafter...

Over a 5 year period starting now, you'd be looking at a $600 investment via subscription, or $300 plus a couple of $99 upgrades which is $500.

Over a 10 year period starting now, you'd be looking at a $1200 investment via subscription, or $300 plus $500 in upgrade fees over that 10 years.

Am I missing something?

 

[v3rlon]

Hmm, I'm glad you brought that up... I've been wondering about that also. Assuming you buy around now and a new version comes every two years hereafter...

Over a 5 year period starting now, you'd be looking at a $600 investment via subscription, or $300 plus a couple of $99 upgrades which is $500.

Over a 10 year period starting now, you'd be looking at a $1200 investment via subscription, or $300 plus $500 in upgrade fees over that 10 years.

Am I missing something?

No, I forgot to account for reduced cost of upgrades. I was only looking at $299 every 2 years.

 

[Brari]

First, thank you for this thread about Capture One Pro.

I've been using Aperture for years and am looking for a new tool.
Yesterday I installed C1 and started importing pictures.
To my surprise I was not able to import pictures from my camera itself... I had to use a CF card reader (thus, taking my card out of the camera... First time I did that in years). I found it hard to believe that it should be done like that, but didn't find anything otherwise. Any ideas?

After importing I started to play with the tool. It does look very nice. My first impressions are that this might be a good alternative for Aperture, but I still have to find all the settings and try to make an easy workflow. Since I will be using Aperture (and Photos in the future) for syncing with my iphone and appleTV I am not that concerned about the DAM possibilities. My main focus is the RAW conversion and editing options.

Comparing both exports of the same image after the 'magic wand' and 'A' options, The outcome is not 100% C1. Most of them look better, but faces with flash or pictures in the dark are better with Aperture. Somehow, C1 doesn't know what to make of it making the face too yellow and the black sky purple with stripes... It is easy to adjust with a better end result than Aperture, but still. Aperture is always good enough so I don't need to double check. With C1 I should do, even though the end results are mostly better (than the 'good enough' results from Aperture).

The language is automatically set to Dutch. Is there any way to change that into English? Long words/sentences sometimes don't fit in the text box, so that's kinda annoying.

After day 1 of the trail version, I'm hopeful that C1 is a good alternative. My first results are mainly possitive

 

[VirtualRain]

First, thank you for this thread about Capture One Pro.

I've been using Aperture for years and am looking for a new tool.
Yesterday I installed C1 and started importing pictures.
To my surprise I was not able to import pictures from my camera itself... I had to use a CF card reader (thus, taking my card out of the camera... First time I did that in years). I found it hard to believe that it should be done like that, but didn't find anything otherwise. Any ideas?

After importing I started to play with the tool. It does look very nice. My first impressions are that this might be a good alternative for Aperture, but I still have to find all the settings and try to make an easy workflow. Since I will be using Aperture (and Photos in the future) for syncing with my iphone and appleTV I am not that concerned about the DAM possibilities. My main focus is the RAW conversion and editing options.

Comparing both exports of the same image after the 'magic wand' and 'A' options, The outcome is not 100% C1. Most of them look better, but faces with flash or pictures in the dark are better with Aperture. Somehow, C1 doesn't know what to make of it making the face too yellow and the black sky purple with stripes... It is easy to adjust with a better end result than Aperture, but still. Aperture is always good enough so I don't need to double check. With C1 I should do, even though the end results are mostly better (than the 'good enough' results from Aperture).

The language is automatically set to Dutch. Is there any way to change that into English? Long words/sentences sometimes don't fit in the text box, so that's kinda annoying.

After day 1 of the trail version, I'm hopeful that C1 is a good alternative. My first results are mainly possitive

I'm also surprised you couldn't import directly from your camera... does your camera appear as a drive on your desktop like other external drives? If so, C1 should identify it just like any other storage media.

My experience with the auto adjustments ("A") in Capture One is that it tends to boost exposure and brightness more than I like, so I generally don't use them. I may try it to see what adjustments it thinks a photo needs, but then I'll either undo it and tweak it myself from scratch or at the very least, back off the exposure and/or brightness settings it used. This is probably what you're seeing as well. It probably goes without saying, but you'll get much better results doing the adjustments on your own. In fact, I'd go as far to say that anyone JUST using the magic wand in Aperture or the auto adjustments in C1 is better off shooting JPEG and letting the camera do the conversion.

I'm not sure why your language is set to Dutch. What is your OS X language set to? It should follow that.

 

[Brari]

Yeah, apparently the Canon 7d is not recognized as an import device. Which is kinda odd, because Aperture did recognize it. The camera is not a visible in Finder.

I understand that using only the auto mode is not the way . This was just a test to see what happened with the image ('phase 1 testing'). I do usually use the magic wand as a start and go from there.

My language is Dutch, so that's my default in osx. I was just wondering if it is possible to change that in C1 instead of changing my default in osx.

Today, some more testing

 

[VirtualRain]

Yeah, apparently the Canon 7d is not recognized as an import device. Which is kinda odd, because Aperture did recognize it. The camera is not a visible in Finder.

I understand that using only the auto mode is not the way . This was just a test to see what happened with the image ('phase 1 testing'). I do usually use the magic wand as a start and go from there.

My language is Dutch, so that's my default in osx. I was just wondering if it is possible to change that in C1 instead of changing my default in osx.

Today, some more testing

I see... It wasn't clear from your previous post if you just did auto and that's it or went further Anyway, as I said, I use to do that in Aperture as well and still do that in C1 but I tend to undo the exposure/brightness. I think it's just trying to normalize the histogram but my taste is a bit different than that. You may need to do the same.

As for your language woes, I found this, which sounds like it would help...
http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9915

 

[Brari]

I see... It wasn't clear from your previous post if you just did auto and that's it or went further Anyway, as I said, I use to do that in Aperture as well and still do that in C1 but I tend to undo the exposure/brightness. I think it's just trying to normalize the histogram but my taste is a bit different than that. You may need to do the same.

As for your language woes, I found this, which sounds like it would help...
http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9915

Thanks for the link. Will give it a try

 

[JDDavis]

Just some feedback on Capture One's DAM features:

I'm about halfway through my trial version of C1 Pro and I'm becoming a fan (not having seen LR6 yet). After working with the first batch of nearly 400 shots I think I have a grip on the DAM features in comparison to Aperture.

Importing - About the same for my purposes though C1 has more options to customize your import.

Culling the keepers - I had a system in Aperture but as I've learned how to use C1's organization features I think I've gotten faster. I'm using colors (red/yellow/green) to mark the trash/maybe/keepers and then smart albums to separate them out. It works pretty well compared to my Aperture system. I also like the focus mask button in C1 as it helps you identify the shots that are most in focus quickly (especially when you have several versions of the same shot). I was able to get down to 64 keepers (out of 400+ ) decently quick.

Storage / Management - Ap and C1 are very similar in how you can store/manage photos they just display it a bit differently in the UI. I like Apertures display better for it's simplicity but C1 is more than adequate. I haven't totally settled on using the C1 library (like Aperture library) or using manual folders yet. I also haven't settle on using smart albums or manual ones. These work basically the same way they do in Aperture.

Overall I think C1 as a DAM will do just fine replacing Aperture, once you get to know the system. It's really not that much different then Aperture but it's not quite as initially intuitive or displayed as cleanly. To me C1's UI and DAM features are built to also allow a content manager / editor to manage multiple photographers where Aperture is built for a single photographer. This makes C1's DAM a little more feature rich and on the surface more complicated but I don't believe I've lost anything from a DAM perspective except for integration with online sites and social media. The learning curve is a little steeper with C1 but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[jgwallace3]

I'm liking C1, but have one significant gripe: speed. It takes just forever when I launch C1 the first time if the catalog is more than 30GBs. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[simonsi]

I'm liking C1, but have one significant gripe: speed. It takes just forever when I launch C1 the first time if the catalog is more than 30GBs. Anyone else have this issue?

Takes a while, mine is ~600GB in size and can take a couple of minutes to launch the App (the library is on an HDD as well).

 

[VirtualRain]

I'm liking C1, but have one significant gripe: speed. It takes just forever when I launch C1 the first time if the catalog is more than 30GBs. Anyone else have this issue?

Takes a while, mine is ~600GB in size and can take a couple of minutes to launch the App (the library is on an HDD as well).

Wow, that seems a bit crazy.

BTW, I've been filing bug reports and feature requests with support when I find things, and their support team is incredibly responsive and helpful. Sometimes it's something dumb I'm doing, and in some cases, I've revealed a couple of bugs related to 4K displays that they have found helpful and are planning to work into an upcoming release.

So I would encourage you to contact them, and submit your issue...

Contact Support is at the bottom of this list...
http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx

 

[simonsi]

Wow, that seems a bit crazy.

I should probably be a bit more specific, the App launches quickly, then takes a couple of minutes to launch the catalog. I don't see it as an issue with a library my size though I'd expect a library of 5% of the size to not take anywhere near as long...

 

[jgwallace3]

Yes... my issue is similar to simonsi's. When I open up C1 for the first time, it also opens up my most recently opened up catalog (as does Aperture). This is when things are slow. However if I then switch catalogs within the UI, that other catalog seems to load much faster. Also, I have gone once step further to test this by creating two identical catalogs, one managed and one reference. No difference.

 

[JDDavis]

Just finished with a batch of 400+ images that I culled down to 60+ keepers that I edited in Capture One Pro. Overall I'm pretty impressed and I have to say that I think I got better results than I would have in Aperture. There are a few things that bug me and a few things that I have to learn to do the "Capture One way" but it feels like an upgrade from Aperture.

What I'm happy with:

Adjustments are not as harsh as Apertures can be...it balances total image adjustments better.
There are simply more options for correction/enhancement than Aperture
Love the HDR sliders (it's not that kind of HDR, it's more like highlight and shadow recovery).
Clarity and Structure sliders are great.
Local Adjustments and the gradient mask tool are nice.
Lots of control over the exporting or processing of images.
The focus mask tool.
The leveling tool.
There's a lot you can do with metadata.
I'm happier with RAW conversion of my D750 than I was with Aperture.

Things I'm not too sure about yet:

The sharpening tool.
I still like SilverFX Pro (NIK) better for black and white conversion.
No easy toggling back and forth between edited version and original version.
I had problems with the previews not rendering but that seems to have fixed itself after playing with preferences.
No one click exporting to Zenfolio.com.
I've been playing a lot with organization and it kept crashing on me when I moved smart folders around.
I find copying and applying things like keywords or edits to multiple images a little confusing.

Overall I think C1 Pro may be the winner for me. It's a powerful DAM/Editor with a lot of capability hidden a bit by it's interface. Once you dig in deep and start to learn it really opens up. I think the tools and interface where designed more for a desktop user with a pen tablet (or mouse) and not a laptop user with a click pad like me. Some of the tools/options are a bit awkward with the click pad. I was ready to go back to a monitor on a desk anyway.

 

[^^BIGMac]

No easy toggling back and forth between edited version and original version.

Have you come up with a work around for this issue?

It's a feature I use a lot and that would be a big bummer. There has to be a way...amirite?

Like anything new there is going to be a learning curve. So it's a matter of jumping in and figuring it out. I'm very likely to buy C1 as Apple has screwed this thing up large! Photos may end up good someday but I'm not inclined to wait around a couple of years to find out it's not going to be improved even to present Aperture levels.

 

[VirtualRain]

Have you come up with a work around for this issue?

It's a feature I use a lot and that would be a big bummer. There has to be a way...amirite?

Like anything new there is going to be a learning curve. So it's a matter of jumping in and figuring it out. I'm very likely to buy C1 as Apple has screwed this thing up large! Photos may end up good someday but I'm not inclined to wait around a couple of years to find out it's not going to be improved even to present Aperture levels.

The only real workaround at the moment is to create a new variant and compare your edited version with the new variant.

As I said, the PhaseOne forums are full of requests for this feature, so it can't be too far off.

----------

Just finished with a batch of 400+ images that I culled down to 60+ keepers that I edited in Capture One Pro. Overall I'm pretty impressed and I have to say that I think I got better results than I would have in Aperture. There are a few things that bug me and a few things that I have to learn to do the "Capture One way" but it feels like an upgrade from Aperture.

What I'm happy with:

Adjustments are not as harsh as Apertures can be...it balances total image adjustments better.
There are simply more options for correction/enhancement than Aperture
Love the HDR sliders (it's not that kind of HDR, it's more like highlight and shadow recovery).
Clarity and Structure sliders are great.
Local Adjustments and the gradient mask tool are nice.
Lots of control over the exporting or processing of images.
The focus mask tool.
The leveling tool.
There's a lot you can do with metadata.
I'm happier with RAW conversion of my D750 than I was with Aperture.

Things I'm not too sure about yet:

The sharpening tool.
I still like SilverFX Pro (NIK) better for black and white conversion.
No easy toggling back and forth between edited version and original version.
I had problems with the previews not rendering but that seems to have fixed itself after playing with preferences.
No one click exporting to Zenfolio.com.
I've been playing a lot with organization and it kept crashing on me when I moved smart folders around.
I find copying and applying things like keywords or edits to multiple images a little confusing.

Overall I think C1 Pro may be the winner for me. It's a powerful DAM/Editor with a lot of capability hidden a bit by it's interface. Once you dig in deep and start to learn it really opens up. I think the tools and interface where designed more for a desktop user with a pen tablet (or mouse) and not a laptop user with a click pad like me. Some of the tools/options are a bit awkward with the click pad. I was ready to go back to a monitor on a desk anyway.

Good report... I agree.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the sharpening it applies on ingest to my 5D3 RAW files is perfect. I've never added any additional sharpening, however, having said that, I'm usually adding more detail to the image via structure which is probably very similar in that it really enhances fine details.

It's interesting what you say about the UI being designed for a pen tablet. I've not tried using the touch pad on my MacBook... what are you finding to be an issue? I use a mouse most of the time which works fine, and I purchased a pen tablet recently to try it with painting masks, and while it works very well for that task and I'm still getting use to it, but I find it too touchy to use as a general pointing tool... I keep finding myself putting down the pen and going back to my mouse to use the UI.

 

[^^BIGMac]

The only real workaround at the moment is to create a new variant and compare your edited version with the new variant.

As I said, the PhaseOne forums are full of requests for this feature, so it can't be too far off.

So in C1's language a "variant" would be, in this case, a duplicate of the RAW file? That's a PITA but not a deal breaker for sure. They'll fix that eventually.

 

[simonsi]

If you have a Style applied, you can hover over the User Style/Remove item in the image context menu and the viewer will quickly show the original (or image without that Style if they are stacked), so the feature is nearly there for Styles, havent tried if a similar method around the menus for other edit types yet.

 

[JDDavis]

Have you come up with a work around for this issue?

It's a feature I use a lot and that would be a big bummer. There has to be a way...amirite?

Like anything new there is going to be a learning curve. So it's a matter of jumping in and figuring it out. I'm very likely to buy C1 as Apple has screwed this thing up large! Photos may end up good someday but I'm not inclined to wait around a couple of years to find out it's not going to be improved even to present Aperture levels.

Basically...what Virtual Rain said.

I found the original toggle button in Aperture very useful and I certainly miss it but it's not a deal breaker. Variants work basically like they did in Aperture. You can create a new original or a new variant with your edits. There is a kind of hierarchy that exists with variants that ties into other things you do with them like metadata and processing / exporting. One annoying thing I noticed is I used color tags to highlight images I wanted to work on and then used a smart album to collect all those images with that color tag. If I created a variant of the image it would not be in my smart album and I'd have to go back to the catalog, find it, and put the color tag on it. It's possible I'm doing it wrong.

You can toggle on/off individual adjustments by holding the option key and holding the undo button down on the individual adjustment. When you release the adjustment returns. You can't do this with the big back button for the image. If you click that the image will return to it's original and your edits will be lost. Seems they could bring the option click/hold thing to the master undo button.

 

[JDDavis]

Good report... I agree.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the sharpening it applies on ingest to my 5D3 RAW files is perfect. I've never added any additional sharpening, however, having said that, I'm usually adding more detail to the image via structure which is probably very similar in that it really enhances fine details.

It's interesting what you say about the UI being designed for a pen tablet. I've not tried using the touch pad on my MacBook... what are you finding to be an issue? I use a mouse most of the time which works fine, and I purchased a pen tablet recently to try it with painting masks, and while it works very well for that task and I'm still getting use to it, but I find it too touchy to use as a general pointing tool... I keep finding myself putting down the pen and going back to my mouse to use the UI.

I use far less sharpening with the D750 then I did before. I don't use much in C1 if I got the focus right to start with. The files do look pretty good coming out the camera. With Aperture and my D90 I applied basic sharpening to every image.

Everything works fine with the touchpad, just a bit awkward. Like drawing a mask. Some things you have to do some two finger gymnastics on the track pad in order to work quickly. I'm not a keyboard shortcut guy so that hinders me too. A lot of the tools seem to have right click or click hold options with them and I could see that being much easier / faster with a mouse. I feel I would be more accurate with a mouse or pen tablet.

A couple of years ago I gave up the iMac to my daughter and the office/desk to my wife who know works from home. I've been a laptop at the kitchen table / on the couch / in the bleachers at the gym worker for a few years. The mobility is great but I'm ready to have a desk / monitor / mouse again. C1 seems to pushing me there faster. It wasn't a big deal with Aperture. The MBP will still be my only computer though.

 

[VirtualRain]

Basically...what Virtual Rain said.

I found the original toggle button in Aperture very useful and I certainly miss it but it's not a deal breaker. Variants work basically like they did in Aperture. You can create a new original or a new variant with your edits. There is a kind of hierarchy that exists with variants that ties into other things you do with them like metadata and processing / exporting. One annoying thing I noticed is I used color tags to highlight images I wanted to work on and then used a smart album to collect all those images with that color tag. If I created a variant of the image it would not be in my smart album and I'd have to go back to the catalog, find it, and put the color tag on it. It's possible I'm doing it wrong.

You can toggle on/off individual adjustments by holding the option key and holding the undo button down on the individual adjustment. When you release the adjustment returns. You can't do this with the big back button for the image. If you click that the image will return to it's original and your edits will be lost. Seems they could bring the option click/hold thing to the master undo button.

Wasn't the issue with creating a variant that doesn't inherit the color tag or stars also a problem in Aperture?... I recall having to go back to the main project and find the new variant and flag it or star it accordingly much like I do now. It would be nice when you create a variant if it inherited the metadata, but not the adjustments.

And, like you, I found out the hard way that the option-clicking the big back button is the same as clicking... a permanent undo I'll be very surprised if they don't implement your suggestion at some point.

 

[jgwallace3]

Wow, that seems a bit crazy.

BTW, I've been filing bug reports and feature requests with support when I find things, and their support team is incredibly responsive and helpful. Sometimes it's something dumb I'm doing, and in some cases, I've revealed a couple of bugs related to 4K displays that they have found helpful and are planning to work into an upcoming release.

So I would encourage you to contact them, and submit your issue...

Contact Support is at the bottom of this list...
http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx

Thanks for the support link. I had assumed that they would not provide support to a user of the time-bombed version. So I have to say they "rock" considering they replied. That said, apparently the database speed is a known issue. Here's their reply:

Hi

If you are on "All images" in the catalog, then Capture One is strating threads to open all images.
If you instead highlight a low count folder before closing, it will only start opening that folder and it will be much quicker.
We are looking in to things to improve this.

Kind Regards
Phase One support

And I can verify that it is faster at loading if I remember to exit with a low count folder highlighted rather than "all images." Drag that I need to remember. However, I do recall earlier versions of Aperture being a snail at opening.