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Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
Thanks, motomuso; glad this was of help. The $0.46 I spent was a fraction of the $19.99 ($14.99 plus $5.00 shipping) I would have paid on eBay for the exact same thing.

I am now refurbishing two more Mac Pros, so I just bought 8 of everything so as to have a couple of 'Northbridge-rebuild' sets left in my kit. Total cost for 4 Northbridge rebuilds: $3.68

Best Wishes.
 

balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Previously helped a client with his Northbridge temperature problem. I replaced his old plastic rivets with stainless steel nuts and bolts and reused the springs. Before the fixing, the temps were at 87°C. After repasting a new thermal paste with the stainless steel nuts and bolts, the temperature went down to 70°C

North-Bridge-1.jpg
Hi there, I am experiencing the same problem, my macpro 2009 would constantly restart, and the temperatures was 100 C. This guy
suggests plastic bolts... can't figure out the specs of them.

Have amazon open, but do not know what to look for?

I selected:

EKLIND 55196 Cushion Grip Hex T-Key allen wrench - 6pc set Metric MM sizes 2-6 (9In shaft)
ARCTIC MX-4 (8 g) - Premium Performance Thermal Paste

What else do I need for this repair?

Really appreciate your advice

Thanks :)

 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
Hi there, I am experiencing the same problem, my macpro 2009 would constantly restart, and the temperatures was 100 C. This guy
suggests plastic bolts... can't figure out the specs of them.

Have amazon open, but do not know what to look for?

I selected:

EKLIND 55196 Cushion Grip Hex T-Key allen wrench - 6pc set Metric MM sizes 2-6 (9In shaft)
ARCTIC MX-4 (8 g) - Premium Performance Thermal Paste

What else do I need for this repair?

Really appreciate your advice

Thanks :)


These are the sort (don't recall the specific size) of bolts you're looking for if you want plastic ones:


They're a semi-translucent white/clear nylon material - no doubt you'll be able to find them from any electronics components store. There's corresponding bolts and washers that go with them.
 

balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Thanks very much!

Valdaquendë and mattspace


May I ask a question, all was working great, why this crap started to happen? Is it because the machine that old and the thermal paste lost its ability? At some point computer would turn off then I heard a click and it would come on again. After such "restart" some internal harddrives would not come on right away... weird.
 

Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
Welcome to MacRumors, by the way.

If your 2009 cMP is misbehaving, just give it some TLC. It's been running and doing a day's work for 13 years now and is still one of the best machines made (IMHO). And it is more than likely to keep doing so for years to come.

If your problem is truly with the Northbridge, then it is likely that either a cooler retaining pin has broken or that the thermal paste has, indeed, lost its ability to keep cooling the Northbridge chip. It doesn't sound as if you have removed and inspected the CPU tray yet; when you do, you may find that one or both of the plastic retainers (the pins that hold the NB cooler down) have broken. That would be a very logical explanation for your cMP's behavior. To replace them, I would suggest the following parts:

2 - 3mm - .5mm x 14mm - Stainless button-head screws
2 - 3mm - .5mm Nylon-insert locking nuts

If you use button-head screws you won't need plastic washers; the heads are big enough to accommodate the springs. You won't need plastic washers on the underside of the board, either, since that is part of the ground-plane and insulation is unneeeded. You can use the existing springs; if a pin has broken you may need to look around for the spring but it's almost certain to be in the case. HERE is how I did it. Be sure and adjust the tension of the springs to about the right tension. The distance from the bottom of the head of the screw to the PCB surface should be equal to that of the original spring-rivet (about 9/32") This will result in a spring pressure that approximates that of the original quite closely.

If it is not a broken pin, re-pasting the NB cooler should do the trick.

You didn't say whether the 100˚C. temps were from your CPUs or your NB sensor. If your CPUs are reaching 100˚C., there may very well be a problem with your heat sinks (which may just need to be removed, re-pasted and reinstalled) or your fans. The above remarks assume that the high temps are on the NB cooler.

In any event, you'll get plenty of help and good advice here.
 

balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Valdaquendë,

Thanks so much. I already feel warm :) from such a welcome!

Below there is a screen shot of the portion where the temperature is that high.

When I tried to inspect the heatsink of NB one of the screw popped out... so it is helt now by one scre that is hidden by the processor cooler

1054495-64071497161c250ecc3042638edaedfc.jpg


The following is what I ordered:





cooler retaining pin - what is it? is it one of those plastic things with a spring that I am going to replace, or is it something else?


THanks again for your support!
 

Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
The cooler retaining pins are, indeed, the plastic things with the springs. And, based upon the screenshot you included, the Northbridge cooler is clearly the problem. The plastic pin was almost certainly already broken and the cooler, no longer held down properly on both sides, was unable to properly relieve the heat generated by the chip.

The components you have listed should do the job, with one possible exception; the washers.

If you are using these washers on the underside of the PCB, well and good, though I don't like the idea of zinc in contact with the copper on the bottom of the PCB; stainless steel would be much better.

As I mentioned, you don't need washers on the bottom but they won't hurt anything either. But I would not use the ones you chose on the top (under the heads of the screws). They are 8mm (.3125") in outside diameter; that is larger than the counter-bore in the cooler that the spring sits in. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), the washer should be large enough (or the bolt head should be large enough) to hold the spring but smaller than the diameter of the bore that the spring sits in so that you never run the risk of tightening the washer down on the body of the cooler.

One other thing: if you haven't done so already, you should absolutely download and follow the directions in the Apple Technician Guide for 2009 Mac Pro, which can be downloaded by clicking HERE. It contains critical information and procedures governing almost all phases of diagnosis and work on your Mac Pro and should be consulted often and assiduously when you are working on your cMP. Any questions it does not answer can almost certainly be answered here.

Good Luck and Best Wishes!
 

TzunamiOSX

macrumors 65816
Oct 4, 2009
1,057
434
Germany
If you are using these washers on the underside of the PCB, well and good, though I don't like the idea of zinc in contact with the copper on the bottom of the PCB; stainless steel would be much better.
Nylon washers would be much much better. M2,5 nylon washers fitting perfect.
 
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balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Thanks well, hopefully I won't need washers.. I had a hard time figuring out which ones I needed. They are by numbers #10 for example. I have no idea what that is. With m3 was easier lol
Could you perhaps give me a link to those? I would just buy it. Another thing, they sell huge quantites of those, I do not need 50 or 100... this is insane!

I just realized that the spring disappeared and while I was looking for it (found) I found another broken pin and spring. INDEED thr problem was because of it - the broken pin was UNDER the processor heatsing. and the other one I broke myself when touched it... but it would've broke eventually. it was just the matter of time. :)

I am hopeful that my mac is going to serve me again. so happy. I guess it is inevitable, I will first have to take off the procesors' heatsinks and only then will I be able to unscrew the circuit board, right? :( I just pray that I do not break anything as my arms are growing out of my ass lol
 
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Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
3mm is .118" (just a little under 1/8"). A #6 washer should have a 9/64" hole, which should be perfect for your purpose; a 1/8' washer could work too. HERE is a table of machine screw sizes and their equivalent diameters.

Or you could get two 3mm-.5 x 16mm button-head screws (available at Lowe's for $1.38 each) and skip the washers.

Again, be sure to read and use the directions in the Apple Technician's Guide when doing this job.
 

balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
3mm is .118" (just a little under 1/8"). A #6 washer should have a 9/64" hole, which should be perfect for your purpose; a 1/8' washer could work too. HERE is a table of machine screw sizes and their equivalent diameters.

Or you could get two 3mm-.5 x 16mm button-head screws (available at Lowe's for $1.38 each) and skip the washers.

Again, be sure to read and use the directions in the Apple Technician's Guide when doing this job.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/6-Clear...738/204276402?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US
OK Thanks :)
This is what I got

I downloaded The manual
 

Sean__Wong

macrumors member
Oct 17, 2018
74
26
Just my 46 cents, here. I have just finished completely refurbishing 2 Mac Pro (5,1 - 2010-2012) CPU trays (and am about to do a third) and have had to deal with this problem. In both cases, the original plastic rivets and springs were intact but, after reading numerous reports of failure over time, I sought a more permanent, reliable and (hopefully) elegant solution. The following approach solved the problem for less than $0.50:

1) I carefully used pliers to squeeze the barbed end of the original rivets and coaxed them through the PCB holes. Then carefully removed the springs, without ruining the barbs, and set the rivets aside for possible future emergency use (although, with the solution I arrived at, I cannot imagine when I would ever use them - "waste-not, want-not", I guess).

2) Replaced each spring-rivet with an M3-.5mm x 14mm stainless steel button-head screw and an M3-.5mm stainless steel nylon-insert locking nut, re-using the original spring. A length of 14mm is perfect; a 12mm length will compress the springs to (or past) their limits; a 16mm length will contact the CPU tray.

View attachment 1923069

(NOTE: I read this how-to article on ifixit.com in which the author used 16mm screws and had to drill a hole in the tray to accommodate the excess screw length but the excess length is just that: excess. I avoid invasive operations unless there's an excellent reason to perform them. The author also used normal cap-head screws and used washers under the screw heads to properly retain the springs; a button-head screw has a very flat, larger-diameter head that is perfect for the spring, obviating the need for washers (looks more elegant, too). Also, he used a nylon washer on the bottom of the PCB but, as tsialex pointed out, the bottom is a ground plane anyway and requires no such insulation.)

3) Cleaned and applied thermal compound to the Northbridge chip (of course).

4) Assembled, adjusting the tension to close-to-original by ensuring that the distance from the bottom of the button-head of the screw to the PCB surface was equal to that of the original spring-rivet (about 9/32") This resulted in a spring pressure that approximates that of the original quite closely.

View attachment 1923070

As you can see, the fix is permanent, trouble-proof, easy to disassemble/reassemble, if necessary, and elegant. The next illustration shows the nuts under the PCB in the assembled CPU tray; as can be seen, the 14mm screw length results in full engagement of the nylon locking insert with a minimum of protruding thread and plenty of clearance between the screws and the tray itself.

View attachment 1923077

Here are the parts labels with complete specs for those who may find this approach desirable:

View attachment 1923072

There are, of course, many ways to solve almost any problem; this one works and works well and is very economical (the total cost of the project was $0.46).
Well done!
Excellent documentation and thanks.

Now your hardware is happy! Time to put some monitoring to keep it happy.
I think you can expect to get your delta lower on your Northbridge Diode / NB heat sink.

This is what I did, a little mod with my 2 x 3.46 Mhz 6 Core and a Full PCI Bus.
Ended up tuning the Mac Fans like this
And added an AIR Shroud for the NB Heatsink
 
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balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Well, I think I did it ... YEY! but it still shuts off and back on


I have questions:

1 on the pic one fan is ZERO. What is PS fan and where is it located? or there is no such a fan that is why it shows as inactive?

2 Hypothetically speaking is there a way to test if the processors work well and ensure that no socket pins were bent or broken

3 What is PSMI SUPPLY - it is a very high temp there

Thanks in advance
 

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TzunamiOSX

macrumors 65816
Oct 4, 2009
1,057
434
Germany
PS is Power Supply. Fan is between Power Supply and DVD Drive.

Missing PS Fan is not good. You can call it BAD.

PCI Fan with 2000 rpm is also not good.
 
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balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
PS is Power Supply. Fan is between Power Supply and DVD Drive.

Missing PS Fan is not good. You can call it BAD.

PCI Fan with 200 rpm is also not good.

I did the diagnostics and it gave this: 4mot/1/140000002: PS-0

PCI FAN it shos 1954.... where did you get 200?


Wha may have happened? Yes, indeed, powersupply fan does not spin at all. but it is not dirty, and moves when I rotate it easily... maybe a wire came off somewhere?
 
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TzunamiOSX

macrumors 65816
Oct 4, 2009
1,057
434
Germany
I did the diagnostics and it gave this: 4mot/1/140000002: PS-0

PCI FAN it shos 1954.... where did you get 200?


Wha may have happened? Yes, indeed, powersupply fan does not spin at all. but it is not dirty, and moves when I rotate it easily... maybe a wire came off somewhere?
Sorry, mean 2000, one zero was missing

Perhaps you have damaged the board, berhaps a cable problem. Sorry my crystal orb is at the cleaners.
 
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TzunamiOSX

macrumors 65816
Oct 4, 2009
1,057
434
Germany
Picture and infos would be nice. What type of CPUs? The standard or new ones? Delided or not?

Pictures from the side of the heatsink to see the new screws.

Remove the CPU board and clean connectors between CPU board and Mainboard with air.
 
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balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
You know what I did... it is funny, but something told me to open up the panel that covers the PS connection to mainboard, so unplugged it and plugged it back in so it snapped... and the fan came on. whew. I am going to run the diagostics just to make sure error cleared out. and will report back here :)

P.S. PCI and other fans set to auto in that utility. I can make it faster, there are different settings there.
by the way, if I uninstall this utility, where these fans are controlled?

is it normal that CPU A hotter than CPU B ?


OK. I did the test again... a new error that was not there before. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that only one monitor is connected insted of 3. I hope this is why

Error code: 4VDC/1/40000003: VIDEOCONTROLER

What's video controller? Is it either of my video cards? I have two. or It is something else on the main board?

This is my mac
yhT5aC6KHDpqD24w.large
 

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TzunamiOSX

macrumors 65816
Oct 4, 2009
1,057
434
Germany
You know what I did... it is funny, but something told me to open up the panel that covers the PS connection to mainboard, so unplugged it and plugged it back in so it snapped... and the fan came on. whew. I am going to run the diagostics just to make sure error cleared out. and will report back here :)

P.S. PCI and other fans set to auto in that utility. I can make it faster, there are different settings there.
by the way, if I uninstall this utility, where these fans are controlled?

is it normal that CPU A hotter than CPU B ?


OK. I did the test again... a new error that was not there before. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that only one monitor is connected insted of 3. I hope this is why

Error code: 4VDC/1/40000003: VIDEOCONTROLER

What's video controller? Is it either of my video cards? I have two. or It is something else on the main board?

This is my mac
yhT5aC6KHDpqD24w.large
Is the original Graphics Card installed? If not, the Program tells you: This is not an Apple GPU.

You PCI Fan runs to high, around 800 is normal. Something is not ok. Need you GPU external power? If yes, is the cable connected?
 

balkyny

macrumors member
Jan 25, 2022
41
0
New York
Is the original Graphics Card installed? If not, the Program tells you: This is not an Apple GPU.

You PCI Fan runs to high, around 800 is normal. Something is not ok. Need you GPU external power? If yes, is the cable connected?
I have 2 cards: the original and radeon hd 5770

Power is connected to radeon.


I found this link - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rror-4vdc-1-40000003-videocontroller.1978486/ this is about the Error code: 4VDC/1/40000003: VIDEOCONTROLER
 
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Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
I have 2 cards: the original and radeon hd 5770

Power is connected to radeon.


I found this link - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rror-4vdc-1-40000003-videocontroller.1978486/ this is about the Error code: 4VDC/1/40000003: VIDEOCONTROLER

The error you reported (Error code: 4VDC/1/40000003: VIDEOCONTROLLER) is, of course, related to your GPU. Here is another thread in which that error is discussed in more detail. From various postings (both here and elsewhere) I checked, it seems to point to either the logic board or the GPU; I found reports of bad logic boards, bad graphics chipsets on the backplane and bad graphics cards (bad nVidia card was most often named).

I would try removing both cards. Install one card in PCI Slot 1, perform the test and note the result. Then remove that card, install the other card in PCI Slot 1 and perform the test again; note the result.

If one card produces this result and not the other, you probably have a defective GPU; use the other. If BOTH cards produce the error, you may have a bad backplane (mainboard).
 

Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2018
113
48
Oregon, USA
It's funny this thread came up as I just ordered these yesterday:


Just my opinion, but it seems overkill to purchase 50 pieces of environmentally-questionable plastic, 48 of which you will probably never use (unless one of the two you actually do use fails) for $8.99 when you can fix the problem permanently, more efficiently, elegantly and a lot less expensively with stainless steel for less than $0.50
 

amstel78

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2018
517
183
Just my opinion, but it seems overkill to purchase 50 pieces of environmentally-questionable plastic, 48 of which you will probably never use (unless one of the two you actually do use fails) for $8.99 when you can fix the problem permanently, more efficiently, elegantly and a lot less expensively with stainless steel for less than $0.50
Yeah, it's overkill. I do have a couple of other Mac Pros laying around that probably need their pins replaced as well but haven't gotten around to it.

P.S. stainless steel hardware, unless sprung, introduces the possibility of having the heatsink tension vary. I like the springs because the tension is constant between both sides. Just saying.
 
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