MP 1,1-5,1 cMP {classicMacPro}{4,1 & 5,1} - Upgrade Guide Sticky Discussion

[kohlson]

The definitive way to understand the difference between 4,1 and 5,1 is at everyman.com. They are largely the same, but with some differences. And, you can't swap logic boards or backplanes between them.
They are greatly expandable and still reasonably performant. There are new and used components available. You can look on Ebay to get an idea of memory/CPU prices. Your favorite reseller for a metal-capable GPU.

 

[wnlewis]

Did you mean Everymac.com? I should have looked there first. Yikes! What an idiot I am. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[gwieczorek]

Hi
is this firmware upgrade related only to backplane of 4.1?

i mean what if i upgrade single cpu MP_4,1 to 5,1 then few weeks or months later will buy dual cpu board (smc ~f5) pulled from not flashed machine?

should i expect problems/miscompatibility?

thanks

 

[tsialex]

Hi
is this firmware upgrade related only to backplane of 4.1?

i mean what if i upgrade single cpu MP_4,1 to 5,1 then few weeks or months later will buy dual cpu board (smc ~f5) pulled from not flashed machine?

should i expect problems/miscompatibility?

thanks

There are several firmwares on a Mac Pro. You have to be aware of two different ones, the BootROM and the two SMC microcontroller firmwares.

The BootROM is located on the backplane, it's upgradable and stored on a SPI flash memory. This is the one that you cross-flash from a MP4,1 to a MP5,1.

CPU trays don't have BootROMs or any firmware at all besides the SMC firmware.

There are two SMCs, one on the backplane and one on the CPU tray. The SMC microcontroller firmware is not user or technician upgradeable and you can't mix-match SMC versions, the SMC on the backplane has to be the same one as the CPU tray.

Early-2009 SMC is 1.39f5, while mid-2010/mid-2012 are 1.39f11. Since you can't upgrade it, you have to buy a tray that correspond to the backplane you have. An early-2009 backplane requires an early-2009 CPU tray.

 

[gwieczorek]

so my the one and only challege is to find 1.39f5 ...

 

[gwieczorek]

Done
about hardware - only one hdd (but not from apple just WDC from typical PCshop) two partitions 10.7 +10.6 this hdd was pulled from my 1.1
no optical drive, memory fron kingston KTA-MP~~~~ (4x4GB)
extremly old keyboard from macally (does anybody remember the one with design similar to first imacs g3?)
logitech mice
graphic card from apple GF120

i did it under 10.7 - ive copied app from netkas to aplications folder mount the dmg from apple and start

at the first attempt i got error 5530 - system date was set to jan2013 and when i set it to present and start the app again everything went perfect

Strange: after reboot 10.6.8 started and apear small window with message about memory ... whats that?!

 

[streak8047]

I have one dual CPU tray 639-1060 ,does it support 2009 4.1 Logic Board (631-1009 EEE code-7A1) logic Board will support this tray,Already has a 2012 Macpro Case with Power supply ,am plan to fix 2009 logic on the Macpro 2012 Case,Please advice can use 2012 PSU can use with 2009 Logic Board & CPU tray 631-1009 compatibility on 2009 Macpro Model.

 

[tsialex]

All Mac Pro parts are interchangeable between early-2009 and mid-2010/mid-2012 EXCEPT the backplane and CPU tray. An early 2009 backplane has to matched with an early 2009 CPU tray. Anything else can be used between the three model years.

You can install an early-2009 backplane and an early-2009 CPU tray pair inside a mid-2012 case, don't matter. Vice-versa too.

 

[streak8047]

All Mac Pro parts are interchangeable between early-2009 and mid-2010/mid-2012 EXCEPT the backplane and CPU tray. An early 2009 backplane has to matched with an early 2009 CPU tray. Anything else can be used between the three model years.

You can install an early-2009 backplane and an early-2009 CPU tray pair inside a mid-2012 case, don't matter. Vice-versa too.

@tsialex thanks for the reply,can test Logic Board & CPU tray outside the Cabin just for the Purpose of test.

​

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex thanks for the reply,can test Logic Board & CPU tray outside the Cabin just for the Purpose of test.

​

Too risky, but some people do it anyway.

I never do it outside, the backplane/CPU tray connector pair is absurdly easy to damage, I'll always install the backplane and then test the CPU tray without installing the CPU tray cage.

 

[gwoog]

My cMP 4.1 has a problem with both x4 pcie slots. The x16 work fine, but no connection on the two upper slots. I have firmware upgraded it, and installed two 5690 and it runs Mojave. No other problems besides the pcie problem. Any suggestions? I have tried to connect several cards, but no go. They only appear when I place them in the lower two slots.

 

[tsialex]

My cMP 4.1 has a problem with both x4 pcie slots. The x16 work fine, but no connection on the two upper slots. I have firmware upgraded it, and installed two 5690 and it runs Mojave. No other problems besides the pcie problem. Any suggestions? I have tried to connect several cards, but no go. They only appear when I place them in the lower two slots.

Seems you have a burned PCIe switch, rare but happens. Start looking for a replacement backplane (630-9399), you can get one early-2009 backplane for less than US$ 100 if you take your time.

 

[gwoog]

Thanks?! The slots get electricity. When I connect my USB 3 card or/and NVME adapter they both light up, but they’re not visible on the computer. If I plug a disc to the USB card it draws power, but unfortunately no connection. Strange...
But if it is the backplane i’m not sure if i want to throw more money in to this machine?

 

[tsialex]

Thanks?! The slots get electricity. When I connect my USB 3 card or/and NVME adapter they both light up, but they’re not visible on the computer. If I plug a disc to the USB card it draws power, but unfortunately no connection. Strange...
But if it is the backplane i’m not sure if i want to throw more money in to this machine?

You can have PCIe power without any data when the PCIe switch is defective. While the power lines of the PCIe slots 3 and 4 are routed to the backplane power circuit, the data lines are routed first to the PCIe switch, the big IDT retangular chip in front of slots 3 and 4.

 

[Macschrauber]

I have a 4.1 Board that does exactly the same, did some ruff measuring to find some blown fuses or traces but nothing, guess the switch is gone south, as Alex mentioned.

 

[Manek43509]

I know there's a lot of talk on here about USB 3 in Mac Pros, but if I just wanted a couple of extra USB 2.0 ports and I happened to have a USB 2.0 PCIe card just kicking around… Would that just work? Are there any restrictions on what cards would work in a Mac Pro 5,1 for USB 2.0?

 

[tsialex]

I know there's a lot of talk on here about USB 3 in Mac Pros, but if I just wanted a couple of extra USB 2.0 ports and I happened to have a USB 2.0 PCIe card just kicking around… Would that just work? Are there any restrictions on what cards would work in a Mac Pro 5,1 for USB 2.0?

Only cards that have driver/kext support will work. Some controllers only work up to El Capitan, like NEC controllers.

Btw, third party USB cards don't work at pre-boot time, so no keyboard/mouse working with the 3rd party before macOS loading the kext or external boot from 3rd party USB controllers.

 

[Manek43509]

Only cards that have driver/kext support will work. Some controllers only work up to El Capitan, like NEC controllers.

Btw, third party USB cards don't work at pre-boot time, so no keyboard/mouse working with the 3rd party before macOS loading the kext or external boot from 3rd party USB controllers.

Cool thanks, that makes sense! I'll check what cards I've got hanging around…

 

[Manek43509]

Only cards that have driver/kext support will work. Some controllers only work up to El Capitan, like NEC controllers.

Btw, third party USB cards don't work at pre-boot time, so no keyboard/mouse working with the 3rd party before macOS loading the kext or external boot from 3rd party USB controllers.

This is the first one I have found, but I'm not even sure what make/model that is!

 

[h9826790]

This is the first one I have found, but I'm not even sure what make/model that is! View attachment 1699427 View attachment 1699426

It's very clear on your photos that the controller's model number is VT6212L.

And it's quite easy to Google that a bit, then find out this card ins't natively support in OSX / macOS.

 

[xy-maps]

Hi, I wanted to swap my old Sapphire RX580 Nitro+ for a RX 5700 XT but have the problem that the PSU fan spins up to maximum for a few minutes on startup.

I use the Pixlas mod and OpenCore in an old 4.1 (flashed to 5.1) with Catalina. I also uninstalled also all harddrives, the DVD drive and I'm just using a single NVMe in Slot 4 (the grafics card is in slot 1).

I tested it with a Sapphire RX 5700 XT Nitro+ (Silent Bios, 2x 8Pin Connector) and the power saving and alot smaller PowerColor RX 5700 XT Dual Fan (1x8Pin + 1x6Pin).
With both cards the fan spins full speed up, but when I reinstall the old RX580 the fan stays at "normal" speed. Both cards are of course already power hungry but I have not read from others that they had problems with the fans especially with the Rx5700 XT Nitro +.

I think this is not good for the fan and the noise development is quite annoying.
Could this be a problem with the Pixlas mod or OpenCore? Someone got the same experince?

 

[h9826790]

Hi, I wanted to swap my old Sapphire RX580 Nitro+ for a RX 5700 XT but have the problem that the PSU fan spins up to maximum for a few minutes on startup.

I use the Pixlas mod and OpenCore in an old 4.1 (flashed to 5.1) with Catalina. I also uninstalled also all harddrives, the DVD drive and I'm just using a single NVMe in Slot 4 (the grafics card is in slot 1).

I tested it with a Sapphire RX 5700 XT Nitro+ (Silent Bios, 2x 8Pin Connector) and the power saving and alot smaller PowerColor RX 5700 XT Dual Fan (1x8Pin + 1x6Pin).
With both cards the fan spins full speed up, but when I reinstall the old RX580 the fan stays at "normal" speed. Both cards are of course already power hungry but I have not read from others that they had problems with the fans especially with the Rx5700 XT Nitro +.

I think this is not good for the fan and the noise development is quite annoying.
Could this be a problem with the Pixlas mod or OpenCore? Someone got the same experince?

AirOut: A solution to the racing fan bug

Introduction The racing fan bug is a well known issue that affects certain cMP systems with upgraded video cards, particularly systems with SMC version 1.39f5. On these systems the PCI, PS, and booster fans spin abnormally fast at idle, causing unnecessary noise. Although the issue appears to...

forums.macrumors.com

How-To: FIX MAC PRO FAN SPEEDS when using PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

The temperature sensors in the Mac Pro are not tuned for things like modern nVIDIA graphics cards and certain SSDs or HDs, and will ramp up the fans tremendously, even though the temperatures are low. The sensitivity range was tuned for the super-cold, old graphics cards the system shipped with...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[ripop]

Just wanted to say 'thanks' for this forum and these threads. A week ago I tried to start coding a Flutter app on my 5,1 running Mojave, and realized I needed xcode12... so I need Catalina+. Now, a week later, I'm running Big Sur with new BT+Wifi card installed, OpenCore, and my main drive moved to NVMe. Super happy to have breathed new life into my machine and couldn't have done it without the posts here and on greggrant's blog. Thanks all!

 

[Stex]

To the forum member(s) managing this sticky thread: I'd like to suggest adding categories for "Temperature Management" and "Fan Upgrades" (rename them as needed/preferred). Both of these categories are quite important for CPU upgrades and other hardware upgrades (RAM and GPU too!) Newbies would benefit from having quick access to some informative threads about best practices to monitor and manage temperatures. The following links are base on my recent research done after my CPU upgrades. I am sure there more threads that could be added but these seem to be a good start. Thanks.


Temperature Management

Are these temps Normal after CPU upgrade

I Just upgraded to Dual X5690 3.46Ghz cpus in my Mid 2012 Mac Pro 5.1. What are the normal temps for these CPUs in a Mid 2012 Mac Pro 5.1? Are my Temps described below for both my system at Idle and while using the Prime 95 app in torture test mode Normal? Should they be better. I used Arctic...

forums.macrumors.com

CPU A 15+ degrees hotter than CPU B

I know CPU A should be hotter than CPU B, but it used to only be around 7-8 degrees delta. Now it's routinely 15+ degrees. Is this something I should worry about? and if it is, what should I do to fix it? This only really started happening after I put new thermal compound on both the CPUs and...

forums.macrumors.com

CPU Temperature under load

Hi All, I know that this is something that is generally addressed but I wanted to ask about my situation specifically. I have recently upgraded the CPU's in a dual processor Mac Pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1 to the X5690's. I have used delidded processors for this. It is only my second go at...

forums.macrumors.com

How-To: FIX MAC PRO FAN SPEEDS when using PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

The temperature sensors in the Mac Pro are not tuned for things like modern nVIDIA graphics cards and certain SSDs or HDs, and will ramp up the fans tremendously, even though the temperatures are low. The sensitivity range was tuned for the super-cold, old graphics cards the system shipped with...

forums.macrumors.com

Strange fans

For your info, 78.5 is the T-case max, not T-diode max. Diode temperature is much higher than case temperature.

forums.macrumors.com

CPU Temperature software - which one?

Just upgraded from the Intel W-3223 8 core processor to the W-3275Mprocessor. Since I'm now using the computer that means I didn't kill it - YEEEHAAA! Now I'd like to keep track of the new CPU's temperature just to try to be a bit on the safe side. What temperature monitoring software do...

forums.macrumors.com

Fan Upgrades

Mac Pro (4.1/5.1) aftermarket fans WITH automatic SMC control

I've been reading around this subject for a while as a pet peeve of mine is noisy computers. My normal workstations are entirely passively cooled and silence is bliss, but I do still use my cMPs when I need machines with a bit more power or more cores for testing virtual environments and the...

forums.macrumors.com

Some extra cooling makes a difference 5.1pro

I wanted to see what difference some extra fans would make cooling the ram and IOH and this is what I used. one of these SATA to fan controller, with high and low speed setting. then fitted fans using double sided tape, foam filled so no vibration. looks like this. the fan controller is...

forums.macrumors.com

Noctua NF-A12x25 PSU fan for 4,1 & 5,1 cMP

Today I did a test install of the Noctua NFaA12x25 120mm fan for my 4,1>5,1's PSU. The fan comes with a "low noise / LOWER RPM" adapter cable connected to the original PSU fan socket on the motherboard, NOTE 1 : I had to shave off one of this cable's 'raised locater guides" to allow the Nocuta...

forums.macrumors.com

Mac Pro 5.1 Replace Fans

I am thinking of getting a Mac Pro, and was wondering if the fans can be replaced with aftermarket ones? Maybe some RGB ones? Thanks Kimbie

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Otamin]

My Mac Pro 4,1 is currently stuck on El Capitan so I'm wanting to flash it to 5,1 to upgrade it.

Since the GPU I put in it a while back is an Nvidia GTX 660, am I right in thinking that High Sierra is the highest I can update to?