Compared to the rest of the market, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone.

[Oletros]

You did good. Now let's do this by US model phone.

And then we can go by US model phone with a certain amount of storage in some cities.

Are you aware that you're becoming very ridiculous? Why don't give up and accept that you were wrong?

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So honestly compare the iPhone to the Galaxy. Please no market share talk we all know android in itself has hundreds of models, lots of them low end given away for free.

So, honestly, the argument was that iPhone was because people bought it. If the OP was so wrong it is his problem, but now it ridiculously tries to bend his arguments.

 

[pdqgp]

So honestly compare the iPhone to the Galaxy. Please no market share talk we all know android in itself has hundreds of models, lots of them low end given away for free.

why would we talk the iPhone vs just the Galaxy? This thread isn't about just the Galaxy. The reality of the world isn't just about the Galaxy. It's not just about Samsung either.

I'm not arguing one way or the other

yes you are.

but take the best selling android handset which I guess is the Galaxy s5 now and compare to the iPhone 6. Or compare previous years. In sales the iPhones sells more. Heck the 5s was outselling the s5 and it was almost a year old.

it's not relevant as to what single model of the slew of models that compete with the iPhone sell. people are only buying the iPhone because that's all iOS and the ecosystem is offered on.

Put that offering on a Sony, Samsung, Moto and LG platform and let's see what happens to Apple's iPhone sales. Bet they drop and would anyone be surprised? It tells us nothing other than what we already know...the OS and Ecosystem are core.

So feel good about narrowing down the completion to one model from one manufacturer. We all know that's not how it works in the real world. I could easily buy a Sony or LG but it's not because I don't like Samsung. It's because the same Google platform is over there and I like Sony stuff or a particular feature about their offerings. I am not going to go to Apple simply because their hardware has one thing or another better. Touch ID and the camera are solid but neither are worth the move from Android to iOS to me.

 

[burgman]

Can you tell me how much shares of android are? How much did android earn?

Let's be real, when phones worldwide running android are being given away vs apples prices, it's a no brainer. A Camry sells more units than a Bugatti. Not because of any technical excellence...

You only want to keep mentioning worldwide, because in the US and/or Canada it's a very different picture.

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Not backpedaling. The fact is when you don't have to develop and support and operating system and can give away your phones, worldwide, your numbers will reflect that. Camry(android) vs Bugatti(iphone). There is a waiting list to buy a Bugatti(IOS), is there a waiting list to buy an android?

Open Signal reports 19000 separate Android phone models: http://opensignal.com/reports/2014/android-fragmentation/

Apple has produced 10 models of iPhone, not including carrier variants .

iPhone seems to be doing pretty well in the market they choose to be in.

 

[Truefan31]

why would we talk the iPhone vs just the Galaxy? This thread isn't about just the Galaxy. The reality of the world isn't just about the Galaxy. It's not just about Samsung either.



yes you are.



it's not relevant as to what single model of the slew of models that compete with the iPhone sell. people are only buying the iPhone because that's all iOS and the ecosystem is offered on.

Put that offering on a Sony, Samsung, Moto and LG platform and let's see what happens to Apple's iPhone sales. Bet they drop and would anyone be surprised? It tells us nothing other than what we already know...the OS and Ecosystem are core.

So feel good about narrowing down the completion to one model from one manufacturer. We all know that's not how it works in the real world. I could easily buy a Sony or LG but it's not because I don't like Samsung. It's because the same Google platform is over there and I like Sony stuff or a particular feature about their offerings. I am not going to go to Apple simply because their hardware has one thing or another better. Touch ID and the camera are solid but neither are worth the move from Android to iOS to me.

It's relevant because all these graphs trying to show iOS with a few devices vs an OS with hundreds of devices. Samsung has its own unique experience touch wiz baked over android. Does it occur to people that iPhone customers actually enjoy their devices and support that come with it? It's why each iPhone outsells the previous every year. That's not from lack of iOS options, it's from people wanting the iPhone.

The android oems each offer their own experience unique to their devices. So yes break down sales per device and compare. I use the s5 or any previous galaxy flagship as an example because it's the highest selling device other than the iPhone. It looks like lg is growing as well too because imo they make a pretty good phone overall and experience.

 

[pdqgp]

It's relevant because all these graphs trying to show iOS with a few devices vs an OS with hundreds of devices. Samsung has its own unique experience touch wiz baked over android. Does it occur to people that iPhone customers actually enjoy their devices and support that come with it? It's why each iPhone outsells the previous every year. That's not from lack of iOS options, it's from people wanting the iPhone.

IMO it IS more about the OS than the device. Price too of course. I'm sure there's a group of buyers that just aren't going to or can't buy an iPhone so they go lower in price. However, that argument only goes so far as even hourly workers at walmart and ghetto kids with no money will hang an iPhone around their neck no matter what they have to do to get one. Where it doesn't sell is likely because people don't see the value in it.

Sure the iPhone continues to sell well against itself YOY. My family is a good example in that I started with one, then my wife, now my kids. Has nothing to do with support from Apple. It's because the kids want what mom has.

The android oems each offer their own experience unique to their devices. So yes break down sales per device and compare. I use the s5 or any previous galaxy flagship as an example because it's the highest selling device other than the iPhone. It looks like lg is growing as well too because imo they make a pretty good phone overall and experience.

Sure, TW and the OEM's have software overlays with a somewhat unique experience but really there they are all still Android in the way they operate and apps they use.

To me, I like the Experia from Sony. Great build quality, like the camera, it's water proof or at least far more resistant than most others and it's small and looks great. I don't care about their interface or experience.

 

[Truefan31]

IMO it IS more about the OS than the device. Price too of course. I'm sure there's a group of buyers that just aren't going to or can't buy an iPhone so they go lower in price. However, that argument only goes so far as even hourly workers at walmart and ghetto kids with no money will hang an iPhone around their neck no matter what they have to do to get one. Where it doesn't sell is likely because people don't see the value in it.

Sure the iPhone continues to sell well against itself YOY. My family is a good example in that I started with one, then my wife, now my kids. Has nothing to do with support from Apple. It's because the kids want what mom has.



Sure, TW and the OEM's have software overlays with a somewhat unique experience but really there they are all still Android in the way they operate and apps they use.

To me, I like the Experia from Sony. Great build quality, like the camera, it's water proof or at least far more resistant than most others and it's small and looks great. I don't care about their interface or experience.

You just described your experience.

 

[pdqgp]

You just described your experience.

I gave my opinion and my experience. You nor I can speak for others only give opinions. However the facts support mine too. The slew of Android devices outsell the iPhone for a multitude of reasons and in the end, well, they still outsell the iPhone.

 

[Truefan31]

Compared to the rest of the market, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone.

I gave my opinion and my experience. You nor I can speak for others only give opinions. However the facts support mine too. The slew of Android devices outsell the iPhone for a multitude of reasons and in the end, well, they still outsell the iPhone.

And my point is that the iPhone is the highest selling smartphone year after year. I would hope that thousands of android phones would outsell a few models of the iPhone. Believe it or not there's a lot of iPhone users that enjoy their phones and every year there's more. That's pretty good imo.

 

[I7guy]

no you don't understand...... ONLY ONE company makes an IOS smartphone! Thats is the way Apple wants it......

Multiple companies produce Android smartphones. So the comparison is very accurate.

That Samsung "sells" more android phones worldwide and their mobile business model is in the crapper says it all. The word sell is parens, because they are giving away phones without much profit. That clearly is not apples business model; although it always seems, price gets pushed for older gen iphones.

So if you compare flagship to flagship, the story will be very telling. In the US or worldwide.

 

[Technarchy]

Thread is silly. Packaged as one person's opinion but really a big pile of flame bait on a platter and sprinkled with glitter.

This is the alternative section yes but it doesn't need to filled with noise.

 

[pdqgp]

That Samsung "sells" more android phones worldwide and their mobile business model is in the crapper says it all. The word sell is parens, because they are giving away phones without much profit. That clearly is not apples business model; although it always seems, price gets pushed for older gen iphones.

So if you compare flagship to flagship, the story will be very telling. In the US or worldwide.

People will take free phones all day long no doubt. To that point there are a ton of folks that pay outrageous prices for them too. There is also a group that wouldn't take that free phone as it isn't worth it to them, they would rather buy what they want. I toss away BOGO offers from Burger King all the time. I don't eat that crap. I also toss away free appetizers at other nice restaurants.

In the end however, the market that Apple is targeting isn't likely the group that would take a free phone or "cheap" android phone. So to dismiss the lower end models or the higher end ones they are "giving" away doesn't really apply as a true iOS or iPhone fan wouldn't likely take the free Android. In other words Apple isn't offering a free phone and when they do, those older cheap/free iPhones still get pass up for in place of other Android devices.

I personally (if I had to use it) wouldn't take a "free IP6 Plus" It's no doubt a great phone, but I have no interest in going back to iOS. I'd rather pay the money for a Note 4 or Sony or LG or whatever I might get next after my Note 3. I'd likely give it to my son but he's already said it's too big and my wife wouldn't want it either.

What's really telling isn't the iPhone market, it's the iOS Market vs the entire market. Evident in the iPad now for sure.

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Thread is silly. Packaged as one person's opinion but really a big pile of flame bait on a platter and sprinkled with glitter.

This is the alternative section yes but it doesn't need to filled with noise.

Meh....who cares. This place needs an "oven" thread. If you can't take the heat or don't approve then go to another thread. That's not directed at you but in general my opinion. Let people banter and kick crap around.

 

[I7guy]

People will take free phones all day long no doubt. To that point there are a ton of folks that pay outrageous prices for them too. There is also a group that wouldn't take that free phone as it isn't worth it to them, they would rather buy what they want. I toss away BOGO offers from Burger King all the time. I don't eat that crap. I also toss away free appetizers at other nice restaurants.

In the end however, the market that Apple is targeting isn't likely the group that would take a free phone or "cheap" android phone. So to dismiss the lower end models or the higher end ones they are "giving" away doesn't really apply as a true iOS or iPhone fan wouldn't likely take the free Android. In other words Apple isn't offering a free phone and when they do, those older cheap/free iPhones still get pass up for in place of other Android devices.

I personally (if I had to use it) wouldn't take a "free IP6 Plus" It's no doubt a great phone, but I have no interest in going back to iOS. I'd rather pay the money for a Note 4 or Sony or LG or whatever I might get next after my Note 3. I'd likely give it to my son but he's already said it's too big and my wife wouldn't want it either.

What's really telling isn't the iPhone market, it's the iOS Market vs the entire market. Evident in the iPad now for sure.

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Meh....who cares. This place needs an "oven" thread. If you can't take the heat or don't approve then go to another thread. That's not directed at you but in general my opinion. Let people banter and kick crap around.

Right, you just proved a point. So then why are global statistics being trotted around like some trophy? Who cares what the stats are from someone or a lot of someones who would take a free phone? Compare flagship to flagship.

I hear you about not taking an free iphone. I wouldn't take a free note 4 either.

 

[pdqgp]

why are global statistics being trotted around like some trophy? Who cares what the stats are from someone or a lot of someones who would take a free phone? Compare flagship to flagship.

At the end of the day those taking free Androids aren't the market Apple is targeting. Not at the low end. If they choose a free higher end then they aren't true iPhone fans. You and I both know that.

However those same people aren't making a choice to pay for an iPhone either. That shows in the Market share stats. The market overall is growing at a faster pace than Apple is able to capture. Instead that additional growth is going to Android. Again, by choice.

That doesn't mean the iPhone is in trouble as it's growing YOY against itself and while I don't have the stats in front of me, they are likely gaining some market overall but not at the same rate as Android.

I mean let's face it, if a low income earner really "wanted" an iPhone, they could simply pick up the free to $99 ones just like they are doing now with Androids. However, they aren't and it's showing.

So while you could choose to measure one end of the market, I'll gladly measure the other side and the market as a whole. Personally, I don't care how any single manufacturer does. I look at the platform. iOS vs Android vs Windows, etc. iOS isn't winning there and to me that tells me a lot.

 

[I7guy]

At the end of the day those taking free Androids aren't the market Apple is targeting. You and I both know that.

However those same people aren't making a choice to pay for an iPhone either. That shows in the Market share stats. The market overall is growing at a faster pace than Apple is able to capture. Instead that additional growth is going to Android. Again, by choice.

That doesn't mean the iPhone is in trouble as it's growing YOY against itself and while I don't have the stats in front of me, they are likely gaining some market overall but not at the same rate as Android.

I mean let's face it, if a low income earner really "wanted" an iPhone, they could simply pick up the free to $99 ones just like they are doing now with Androids. However, they aren't and it's showing.

So while you could choose to measure one end of the market, I'll gladly measure the other side and the market as a whole. Personally, I don't care how any single manufacturer does. I look at the platform. iOS vs Android vs Windows, etc...

Right, and these people aren't getting a Samsung flagship either. That shows in Samsungs mobile financials. If there were free windows phones, those same people would probably get a free windows phone. So both Samsung and Apple are losing out.

The difference is apples financials are booming.

 

[pdqgp]

Right, and these people aren't getting a Samsung flagship either. That shows in Samsungs mobile financials.

WOW, I'm glad they gave you that to swing from for Christmas. It only took like 4+ generations of phablets...you know the phablets that Apple said would never sell. All that money and success yet so dumb at the same time. All that money and Antenna gate is still talked about. You know if you wait long enough the cycle will come back.

Day 1 to the mid to late 90's (if you were even born) Apple sucked so much worse than Samsung Mobile. But hey, let's not remember those days eh? Wasn't Apple maps a huge hit back in the day too? All that money and they couldn't even launch a navigation app that worked. They didn't make any executive level changes did they? My what a difference just a little time makes.

The difference is apples financials are booming.

You nut-swing from Apple like it's your job. With all their money and they still can't get an iPhone to send email attachments and they are still shutting down developers who offer them something people want. In fact it wasn't until iOS 7 that all that money really got them into the running with Android. Laggards.

With all that money an Apple TV, the iPad, iTunes Music all are taking hits. With all that profit and customers are still paying full price for a phone only to bow to all that money not in their bank accounts. All that money and iOS is still losing ground in the market and what share they do have is bus lengths behind. Funny.

Yep....all that money. But hey, they do have one kick ass facility being built.

 

[I7guy]

WOW, I'm glad they gave you that to swing from for Christmas. It only took like 4+ generations of phablets...you know the phablets that Apple said would never sell. All that money and success yet so dumb at the same time. All that money and Antenna gate is still talked about. You know if you wait long enough the cycle will come back.

Day 1 to the mid to late 90's (if you were even born) Apple sucked so much worse than Samsung Mobile. But hey, let's not remember those days eh? Wasn't Apple maps a huge hit back in the day too? All that money and they couldn't even launch a navigation app that worked. They didn't make any executive level changes did they? My what a difference just a little time makes.



You nut-swing from Apple like it's your job. With all their money and they still can't get an iPhone to send email attachments and they are still shutting down developers who offer them something people want. In fact it wasn't until iOS 7 that all that money really got them into the running with Android. Laggards.

With all that money an Apple TV, the iPad, iTunes Music all are taking hits. With all that profit and customers are still paying full price for a phone only to bow to all that money not in their bank accounts. All that money and iOS is still losing ground in the market and what share they do have is bus lengths behind. Funny.

Yep....all that money. But hey, they do have one kick ass facility being built.

Sorry you must have me confused with somebody who really cares about what you are saying. Losing share is not the same as losing market cap.

 

[pdqgp]

Right, and these people aren't getting a Samsung flagship either. That shows in Samsungs mobile financials. If there were free windows phones, those same people would probably get a free windows phone. So both Samsung and Apple are losing out.

This thread isn't about Samsung, but I know again you like to nut-swing gripping them from one hand and apple in the other. Last I checked there weren't any free Windows phones. I could be wrong though. Samsung is losing to the other lower end makes not Apple. Think China.

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Sorry you must have me confused with somebody who really cares about what you are saying.

Could be due to your instantaneous replies to my posts. You might not care, but it drives you nuts evident by your behavior.

 

[I7guy]

This thread isn't about Samsung, but I know again you like to nut-swing gripping them from one hand and apple in the other. Last I checked there weren't any free Windows phones. I could be wrong though. Samsung is losing to the other lower end makes not Apple. Think China.

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Could be due to your instantaneous replies to my posts. You might not care, but it drives you nuts evident by your behavior.

Nut swing? I think i lost it after that?

 

[animalx]

I disagree. It's more about the OS and ecosystem choice than the device.

I think that is true, but only to a point. The foundation would be OS and ecosystem, but past that would be the individual device offering. For example, the G3 and the Galaxy S5 both run Android and for the most part have the same ecosystem, but there are other factors that go into choosing one over the other. Some of the reasons I chose the G3 over the GS5, are display size, overall device size, no hardware buttons on face, and better UI functionality.

Open Signal reports 19000 separate Android phone models: http://opensignal.com/reports/2014/android-fragmentation/

Apple has produced 10 models of iPhone, not including carrier variants .

iPhone seems to be doing pretty well in the market they choose to be in.

The 19000 models thing can be a bit misleading. You have to keep in mind that there is really no barrier of entry for producing an Android device. This in itself can cause a tremendous amount of saturation. That however doesn't mean that everything that is released, was a quality product or a product that ever was intended to reach the mass market. Truth be told, only a fraction of the devices on there would actually be something that was a quality product intended to reach the mass market. So don't let numbers fool you. You have to look at the entire picture.

----------

This thread isn't about Samsung, but I know again you like to nut-swing gripping them from one hand and apple in the other. Last I checked there weren't any free Windows phones. I could be wrong though. Samsung is losing to the other lower end makes not Apple.

Samsung is going downhill in my opinion. Their kitchen sink approach isn't something suited for the long haul. I think they need to worry less about included every single thing they can think of, and instead focus on including some very well thought out features that are both practical and innovative, a la the Moto X.

 

[animalx]

Thread is silly. Packaged as one person's opinion but really a big pile of flame bait on a platter and sprinkled with glitter.

This is the alternative section yes but it doesn't need to filled with noise.

Yes indeed this is my opinion...

With that said, I think Apple needs to do something different to become a top 10 smartphone. At this point, they really have not done anything innovative and that has caused them to fall behind the competition. With the iOS 8 update, it didn't really add anything new, it just adding things new to people using iOS 8. In the grand scheme of things, iOS 8 was already old when it was released.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple absolutely caters to the masses who are willing to accept a less capable or customizable device because that's what meets their needs, I agree. No different than Billions are served by fast food places daily compromising quality and health for convenience and hundred so thousands each year by old-man-tan color 4cyl. Toyotas. Apple users have been compromising more than anyone since day one and that is the point and you too know it.

Actually, Apple caters to the consumer who values a great user experience and who is willing to pay for it. That's why Apple has been fairly resistant to disruption, insofar that more people continue to buy their products every year despite the competition boasting of how their products have more cores, more ram etc. At the end of the day, better specs don't necessarily guarantee a great user experience.

Apple isn't the problem. You are. Apple doesn't meet your needs and doesn't focus on what you value. Even with Apple, no company is perfect. But you went into the relationship with misguided expectations. Apple has exceeded my needs time and time again, but that is because my needs are different, and what I value is different.

They are not 'less' or 'worse' or 'deficient' in any way when compared with your needs and what you value (which you often imply by the way), simply different.

 

[animalx]

Actually, Apple caters to the consumer who values a great user experience and who is willing to pay for it. That's why Apple has been fairly resistant to disruption, insofar that more people continue to buy their products every year despite the competition boasting of how their products have more cores, more ram etc. At the end of the day, better specs don't necessarily guarantee a great user experience.

Apple isn't the problem. You are. Apple doesn't meet your needs and doesn't focus on what you value. Even with Apple, no company is perfect. But you went into the relationship with misguided expectations. Apple has exceeded my needs time and time again, but that is because my needs are different, and what I value is different.

They are not 'less' or 'worse' or 'deficient' in any way when compared with your needs and what you value (which you often imply by the way), simply different.

I have to disagree with you here. They can be "less" or "deficient", but still meet the needs of most people. For myself, an iPhone is indeed "less" and indeed "deficient" in several ways. I require more from my phone than most people though, so what makes it a poor purchase for myself, doesn't necessarily make it so for someone else. Going back to the email attachment issue as an example, yes the iPhone is clearly "less" and "deficient" in this department. This however will not impact most people, because the majority of the people will not be using their phone in that manner.

 

[Abazigal]

I have to disagree with you here. They can be "less" or "deficient", but still meet the needs of most people. For myself, an iPhone is indeed "less" and indeed "deficient" in several ways. I require more from my phone than most people though, so what makes it a poor purchase for myself, doesn't necessarily make it so for someone else. Going back to the email attachment issue as an example, yes the iPhone is clearly "less" and "deficient" in this department. This however will not impact most people, because the majority of the people will not be using their phone in that manner.

I agree 100% with you here, so I am not sure if I misinterpreted your earlier statement, or vice versa?

 

[Ulenspiegel]

...Apple isn't the problem. You are. Apple doesn't meet your needs and doesn't focus on what you value. Even with Apple, no company is perfect. But you went into the relationship with misguided expectations...

With due respect to your opinion, experience and brand loyalty, the real situation is a little bit more complex than who poses a "problem" in the aforementioned "relationship".

Apple is one the best Companies in the world for many reasons. Nevertheless, we have to realize that Apple sets standards and rules in all fields that are to be accepted if you want to use their products. The dominant role is played by Apple and not the consumer. Just remember the first iPhone. It was revolutionary, we all admired it. But if you wanted to use it, you had to register the phone through iTunes and had to accept that you could not store contacts other than on the SIM card. Was this approach meeting the needs of the consumer? No, by no means. And I could give you many more examples when Apple dictates and the consumer accepts. Sometimes making incredible compromises.
No problem with that. If you accpet Apple's "rules of the games", you are in. If not, you start looking for alternatives.

 

[Rogifan]

Thread is silly. Packaged as one person's opinion but really a big pile of flame bait on a platter and sprinkled with glitter.

This is the alternative section yes but it doesn't need to filled with noise.

Apparently it's ok because it hasn't been locked/closed yet, even though one could argue its run its course.