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Is MS going to become a strong competitor to Apple?


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762999

Cancelled
Nov 9, 2012
891
509
Powershell runs Powershell scripts only. No bash, no ordinary shellscript, none. If you have those and/or other unix tools then Powershell isn't an option.

So yes, you are indeed missing something: why and what people are using the UNIX part of OS X for. That's why they are stuck with UNIX/Linux systems like SUSE, Debian, Red Hat, OS X and so on. The downside of Linux is the support on notebooks. It has gotten better over time but there still are some issues, especially regarding hibernation/sleep and power management. OS X is better at this and is able to run those UNIX/Linux software. That's the reason why many have or are switching to OS X.

well for copying stuff over and running remote commands everything can be done in a standard command line (putty,and command line winscp) and Cygwin supports a lot of command line tools.
I have several linux scripts that needed to be rewritten on OSX. Either some tools are not available or have different arguments. It's not a full script rewrite but program invocation is not seamless.

I just wanted to know what he was doing not debate if all the unix tools work or not.
 

agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
Have you tried El Capitan? It's quite stable.

Yes I have - it was a f***ing awful experience, applications falling over all the time, Finder going loopy, really the worst OS X Public Beta to date. I reverted to Mavericks, much faster. Already ditched iOS. Having had Apple laptops for 7 years I don't think I'd buy another. Apple make truly fantastic hardware but their software quality and strategy are both heading down the sh*tter.
 
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bmac89

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2014
1,388
468
I remember when no one would choose windows
When was this?

The keyword is choose.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the direction Windows 10 is heading.... but at the same time my experience with Windows 10 only further reinforces why I use a Mac!

Pros = Fast and feels lightweight. Getting lots of OSX type features added. Shutdown is fast unlike the newer OSX. Split screen / window snapping is superior to El Capitan.

Cons = The same old clunky Windows experience. Nightmare updating. Way to much clutter and lack of continuity. Some aspect of the operating system look like they have come from Windows 98. Still lacks the fine tuning which OSX has had for decades. The visual quality is appalling, even on my non-retina mac and compared with old OSX versions.
 
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bmac89

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2014
1,388
468
Ok, so when did no one choose Windows?

I'm not suggesting that no one chose windows. I'm just guessing the person who posted that comment thinks that not many people actually choose to use Windows but rather have to use it because of work, study, came with the computer, can't afford a mac... etc
 

Beavix

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2010
705
549
Romania
Some aspect of the operating system look like they have come from Windows 98.

Which aspects, exactly? It's the second time someone says that in this topic. I haven't seen anything which reminds me about Windows 98 in Windows 10. Excepting, of course, the name of the operating system and the whole philosophy behind it. But that can also be said about OS X.
 

bbfc

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2011
3,910
1,676
Newcastle, England.
Yes I have - it was a f***ing awful experience, applications falling over all the time, Finder going loopy, really the worst OS X Public Beta to date. I reverted to Mavericks, much faster. Already ditched iOS. Having had Apple laptops for 7 years I don't think I'd buy another. Apple make truly fantastic hardware but their software quality and strategy are both heading down the sh*tter.
That's certainly not a common issue with El Capitan. The overall consensus is that it's a significant improvement over Yosemite.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
Which aspects, exactly? It's the second time someone says that in this topic. I haven't seen anything which reminds me about Windows 98 in Windows 10. Excepting, of course, the name of the operating system and the whole philosophy behind it. But that can also be said about OS X.

Things like the registry.
 
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Beavix

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2010
705
549
Romania
Things like the registry.

The registry has been improved a lot since Windows '95. You can break the registry if you really mess with it but nowadays a corrupted registry can be fixed almost as easy as repairing permissions on other operating systems :p
 

chevalier433

macrumors 6502a
Mar 30, 2011
510
13
Have you tried El Capitan? It's quite stable.


Like the really bad font rendering?
El Capitan quite stable?What are you doing with your mac?but I don care about the bugs is a beta but the wifi and bluetooth issues that plagued all the version of crappy yosemite are present in el capitan too.

Windows 10 with thousand of components and different brands is super stable well done microsoft excellent job i will change my workflow after 10 years with os x.Apple in os x yosemite with less than 30 models cannot optimize it to work fast with retina screens and to fix wifi and bluetooth issues that plague all the yosemite versions and el capital too.Im in so much pain and trouble since i buy my retina macbook pro with lag,wifi and bluetooth issues that i want to stab the software supervisor until he bleeds out.Yosemite is in 10.10.5 and still wifi issues,speed and memory leak has improved since 10.10.4 though.
 
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Crosscreek

macrumors 68030
Nov 19, 2013
2,892
5,793
Margarittaville
I used Windows since back to the DOS days and grew to hate it as a bloated and virus breading OS.

When my XP computer finally became unusable I switched to a Mac and have been happy ever since.

I did participate in the Insider Program for Windows 10 just out of curiosity in a Parallels 10 VM since last October. I can say I was surprised as to how the build process went until final release. It has become a very usable OS but is still bloated and privacy is a big drawback.

While I won't rule out owning another PC in the future I will be sticking with OS X as my main operating system and something I know I can depend on.
 

bbfc

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2011
3,910
1,676
Newcastle, England.
El Capitan quite stable?What are you doing with your mac?but I don care about the bugs is a beta but the wifi and bluetooth issues that plagued all the version of crappy yosemite are present in el capitan too.
What are you taking about? El Capitan is very stable and I'm using it on an Early 2011 MBP. I have NEVER had any issues with wifi of Bluetooth, on any version of OS X.
 

username:

macrumors 6502a
Dec 16, 2013
707
365
I just hope OS X never comes packaged with ads. I heard that solitaire now has banner ads in it.

People pay that much for an operating system, that doesnt even come with any other useful software in it, except some games, and even the pre-installed games have ads.
 
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businezguy

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2003
389
456
This is an interesting discussion with good points on both sides.

I purchased a Surface Pro 3 to use for school because of its stylus capabilities. Basically I felt if I wrote stuff down using a "pen" I'd memorize it better. While that is true to a small extent, I've found other methods of memorizing information that were more efficient for me. Still, I am able to write over typed pages to correct stuff a lot easier then I could do it with the traditional word processor interface for corrections. In other words, Microsoft made a pretty innovative product and should be commended for it and the fact is it only improved with Windows 10.

Yet, to be honest, I find myself regretting my purchase and will likely sell the device in favor of a Mac Book Pro 13 inch. Simply put, I love OS X, even if Yosemite has been a disappointment compared to other OS X releases. It seems Apple has made the right decision in focusing mainly on fixing bugs and improving the overall performance of the OS, and that gives me some hope. It's a good thing too, because Microsoft has realized the same thing and has made significant progress.

I think that Windows 10 will allow options that didn't exist before. It will give people a choice. If companies like Dell, Lenovo, etc. can improve their hardware offerings (their already seems to be some progress by Dell) and provide competitive pricing, many may jump OS X ship and move to Windows 10. I see that as a real possibility. But these are early days, and Microsoft has made progress in the past only to take several steps back.

The fact is, it still seems like the lessons learned from Apple's comeback have yet to be learned by other companies. What's scary is that Apple may be forgetting those lessons themselves. It's clear we are going through a major transition. It appears that tablets were going to take over the laptop market, but users learned laptops were superior in many tasks they required. Also, since products like the iPad don't need a replacement as often as Apple hoped, it may be a product less important to Apple's future then Apple may have hoped.

Frankly, the iPhone sells so well in the U.S. because it was subsidized and now can be financed with zero interest. The iPhone is kinda like owning an oil company in the 1940s and getting your expenses paid by the U.S. government while keeping all profits from successful oil rigs. It's not like there exists a market like that for Apple elsewhere. Fact is, in the next year or two (maybe sooner), Apple will reach it's peak in profitability and then it will decline. During that challenging period, will Apple make good decisions and focus on future innovations, or will it lash out like a spoiled child at its customers?

I know that the biggest complaint about Tim Cook is that he's a bean counter and not a product man. I think that's a fair complaint, but I don't think it's *the* big issue with him. Steve Jobs had the ability to have open disdain for Wall Street and do things the way Steve Jobs wanted them to be done. Steve Jobs recognized that Wall Street lived for the quarterly profits, but a successful company needed to focus on the long term; more importantly, Steve Jobs was capable of ignoring Wall Street almost completely and making his vision become a reality. I believe Tim Cook has learned many lessons from Steve Jobs and probably understands the shortcomings of Wall Street to an extent, but he doesn't seem to have the ability to stick the proverbial middle finger at them and say he's going to do things the right way regardless of what investors think.

Sorry for going off on a tangent in an OS thread.....

What I'm saying is in my experience OS X is better then with Windows 10, even with Yosemite. But Microsoft looks determined to continue to improve Windows 10, and those improvements will move quickly into the hands of end users. Apple has a more advanced way of deploying their OS by making it free and providing timely annual updates. Now Microsoft has a free OS and will be providing updates much more frequently then annually. All of a sudden Microsoft has the more modern delivery format for OS improvements than Apple. Will Apple recognize this and make necessary changes?
 
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username:

macrumors 6502a
Dec 16, 2013
707
365
I Now Microsoft has a free OS and will be providing updates much more frequently then annually. All of a sudden Microsoft has the more modern delivery format for OS improvements than Apple. Will Apple recognize this and make necessary changes?

It's not exactly free. It is only free for existing windows 7 and 8 users, and only for one year. And some might argue that windows updates are a bit too frequent. For example a 1 Gb update one day after release.
 

businezguy

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2003
389
456
It's not exactly free. It is only free for existing windows 7 and 8 users, and only for one year. And some might argue that windows updates are a bit too frequent. For example a 1 Gb update one day after release.

True, it's only free for Windows 7 and 8 users, but that's going to be almost everybody. People who have those OSes and want to upgrade will have plenty of time to do so. Many other people will upgrade through new hardware purchases in which the cost of Windows will be integrated into the cost of their computer purchase. For all respects, it's going to be "free" for the vast majority of people who want it. Keep in mind OS X isn't "free" so much as the cost of development is cooked into the cost of your new computer purchase.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
I just hope OS X never comes packaged with ads. I heard that solitaire now has banner ads in it.

People pay that much for an operating system, that doesnt even come with any other useful software in it, except some games, and even the pre-installed games have ads.

To be fair, it only affects that one game and it’s a completely new game suite of which Solitaire is a part. You can pay for it or use it with ads. Apple includes ads also in iTunes if you’re using iTunes Radio, so it’s not without precedent.

It's not exactly free. It is only free for existing windows 7 and 8 users, and only for one year. And some might argue that windows updates are a bit too frequent. For example a 1 Gb update one day after release.

I think they rushed the release and it wasn’t necessary IMHO. Rumour has it that Microsoft plans to get everyone on board to break the cycle of people not updating their systems at all and dragging out support by keeping the version their computer came with, which was paid for with relatively low licensing fees, and allow them to monetise the system more effectively at a later time. I am pretty confident that Windows 10 is purely bait at this point and not really free, not to mention the pretty significant data collection that users need to opt-out of (and most people will be ignorant and don’t realise it, making them easy targets). Apple doesn’t need to sell the OS anymore. The advantages of building an ecosystem far outweigh the sales price of an OS X release.

If anyone, I think it is Google that needs to be more worried than Apple, because Microsoft will enter and compete in more markets that Google also operates in.

Now Microsoft has a free OS and will be providing updates much more frequently then annually. All of a sudden Microsoft has the more modern delivery format for OS improvements than Apple. Will Apple recognize this and make necessary changes?

I am not sure whether I can follow you there. OS X is updated throughout the year; bugs and vulnerabilities are fixed. Microsoft isn’t going to bring substantial changes to Windows so frequently. Maybe for the moment as long as Windows 10 is still fresh. OS X is still very much the bleeding-edge system.
 
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businezguy

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2003
389
456
I am not sure whether I can follow you there. OS X is updated throughout the year; bugs and vulnerabilities are fixed. Microsoft isn’t going to bring substantial changes to Windows so frequently. Maybe for the moment as long as Windows 10 is still fresh. OS X is still very much the bleeding-edge system.


Actually, Microsoft plans to update the OS with new features and changes. According to Microsoft, this is their last operating system and they plan to keep Windows 10 and use it indefinitely. Whether that proves to be true or not is another thing entirely, but you have to understand they could and will add features to the OS when they are ready. Windows 10 is never going to be a finished product. So we aren't just talking about bug fixes and security updates here.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
Actually, Microsoft plans to update the OS with new features and changes. According to Microsoft, this is their last operating system and they plan to keep Windows 10 and use it indefinitely. Whether that proves to be true or not is another thing entirely, but you have to understand they could and will add features to the OS when they are ready. Windows 10 is never going to be a finished product. So we aren't just talking about bug fixes and security updates here.

I interpreted that as a change of strategy, to one similar to OS X. Rather than making structural changes to Windows every few years, they use the Windows 10 brand as the foundation for future updates. That doesn’t mean that they are filling every update with new features now. Technically, they could still just release service packs, only release them more frequently in bits. Cumulatively, this doesn’t put Windows is a different position than OS X.

Moreover, this isn’t at all different from what Apple is doing and I see no evidence that Microsoft is doing something different or better than Apple. As long as Microsoft hasn’t announced what they are going to do with Windows 10 after the first year, it is not unlikely that there will be some paid upgrades or subscriptions at some point, unless the profits in other product markets are sufficient to cover the costs and fortify the ecosystem. They seem to be ramping up the data collection within the system and I fear that Windows 10 is going the way of Android instead, not OS X or iOS, which is technically monetised almost entirely by advertising revenue.
 
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