Comparing 2 Operating Systems - OS X and Windows 10

[hojx]

I spent the last two evenings working with Windows 10. Wow! What an improvement.

Apple better start paying more attention to OSX.

Windows 10 in many ways has surpassed OSX (Lion - Yosemite) in ease of use, reliability and speed. Right now it is ahead of El Capitan in these same areas.

With 200 billion in the bank and with Macs being Apple's second best selling product, there is no excuse for Apple ignoring the Mac.

Windows 10 is amazingly fast. My Mom's old Toshiba laptop with an i3 processor completes tasks with the same programs faster than my 27 inch i7 iMac. This should not be!

What should Apple do? Focus on Speed, Reliability, Ease of Use. I know El Capitan is making progress towards these areas and that is good. However, Microsoft is gaining fast and may have actually passed Apple.

Microsoft definitely has an edge in customization. Unlike Apple's Stickers campaign, Windows 10 allows you to customize the operating system, not patch your Mac with a sticker.

Come on Apple don't let Microsoft beat you!

I posted a few ideas for improvement here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-new-features-would-you-like-to-see.1903102/

So what is your stance?
You said that "Windows 10 in many ways has surpassed OSX (Lion - Yosemite) in ease of use, reliability and speed. Right now it is ahead of El Capitan in these same areas", meaning you find that Win 10 surpasses OS X Lion—El Capitan.
Then you go on saying that "Microsoft is gaining fast and may have actually passed Apple.". Does "may have actually passed" mean that it has not yet surpassed?

If it has surpassed, can you elaborate (objectively) on how Win10 has "surpassed" OS X? All three (ease of use, reliability, speed) please.

Care to also talk about how Apple is "ignoring the Mac" too?

Shutdown, startup, LibreOffice, Firefox, Picasa etc.

My 27 inch iMac is no slouch, however, Lion-Yosemite is no match to Windows 10 when it comes to speed. Hopefully, El Capitan fixes this speed deficit.

Not sure about you, but El Capitan is really fast on my Retina MacBook Pro. I prefer Safari personally but Firefox runs really quickly for me. Startup and shutdown has been a matter of seconds too. What are your specs?

 

[762999]

Shutdown, startup, LibreOffice, Firefox, Picasa etc.

My 27 inch iMac is no slouch, however, Lion-Yosemite is no match to Windows 10 when it comes to speed. Hopefully, El Capitan fixes this speed deficit.

Thank you for replying! What I see here is irrelevant to me.

Shutdown and restart: I use sleep mode and its very fast.
Firefox, Libre Office, Picasa: I don't have any specific against them, but they're not 'made for the Mac'. They are using multi-platform libraries and this impact performance, compared to a native 'designed for the mac' app.

I agree with you that for these tasks, Windows could seem a better fit.

I loved the Mac more when I parted ways with those multiplatform app and used apps designed for the mac.

The reason Windows 10 is booting fast, it's because of a little cheat! Windows 10 uses Fast startup. Because it is actually the combination of the shutdown and hibernation in the system. When you access your system or PC then it starts from hibernate which saves your critical time. If you turn it off you will see the actual time Windows 10 requires to boot. A restart also does a full boot sequence.

Enjoy your day!

 

[HenryDJP]

I installed Windows 10 in Bootcamp on my MBP. It's extremely fast, no lags whatsoever (unlike Yosemite), the Edge browser opens instantaneously. I had no hardware issues, everything worked well using the old Bootcamp drivers. It has some things which are clearly inspired by OS X (e.g. the new system settings panel = System Preferences; the Task View = Mission Control; the new notification center). It is designed to work on both laptops and tablets with the interface adapting to each device, something I wish Apple did with OS X. It's a good operating system and to be honest it makes OS X look a little bit dated.

Every copy of Windows (when installed on an empty drive partition) runs fast from the start, then....
For me, all 3 of my Macs had Yosemite installed on an empty drive and it runs very fast and smooth. Sounds more like you just did an upgrade on Yosemite (the OS only with no other programs) rather than installing it on a completely empty drive, or you just installed a backup copy with all your programs at once.

That's funny though how you say Windows 10 makes OS X look dated when you are comparing it to Apple's older system, rather than it's upcoming system (EL Capitan), that's already received rave reviews on it's speed and performance.

My brother is reporting the same results. Fast and it just works. That used to be Apple's call to fame.

Look out Apple. Yosemite did Apple no favors. I know a lot of people who are thinking about switching back. Why? Four reasons:

1. Yosemite did not just work.
2. Yosemite is slow.
3. Many users don't care for Full Screen, they would prefer a Windows style Maximize option.
4. Stuck with either transparency or gray everywhere with thin hard to read fonts. (Read App Store reviews!)
​

Apple needs to pay more attention to user requests. At times they almost appear as clueless as the old Microsoft.

Really? How many people do you know? IBM disagrees with you.

I spent the last two evenings working with Windows 10. Wow! What an improvement.

Apple better start paying more attention to OSX.

Windows 10 in many ways has surpassed OSX (Lion - Yosemite) in ease of use, reliability and speed. Right now it is ahead of El Capitan in these same areas.

With 200 billion in the bank and with Macs being Apple's second best selling product, there is no excuse for Apple ignoring the Mac.

Windows 10 is amazingly fast. My Mom's old Toshiba laptop with an i3 processor completes tasks with the same programs faster than my 27 inch i7 iMac. This should not be!

What should Apple do? Focus on Speed, Reliability, Ease of Use. I know El Capitan is making progress towards these areas and that is good. However, Microsoft is gaining fast and may have actually passed Apple.

Microsoft definitely has an edge in customization. Unlike Apple's Stickers campaign, Windows 10 allows you to customize the operating system, not patch your Mac with a sticker.

Come on Apple don't let Microsoft beat you!

I posted a few ideas for improvement here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-new-features-would-you-like-to-see.1903102/

Looking at your post history (the small amount of posts you have since you joined in 2011), much of it is nothing but attempts to promote Microsoft Windows at any cost. You've lost tons of credibility and there's no reason for anyone to take your posts seriously.

 

[dyn]

Windows 10 is a nice Windows version...after you disabled tons of privacy invasive stuff and tweaked some other settings. Took me a day. And then I'm one of the few who did the upgrade with the ISO without any issues. Too many people cannot say that. Tests done by many reviewers have also shown that Windows 10 only brings great performance for those running Windows 7. It has no benefit for those running Windows 8 or 8.1.

As for El Capitan, well, I run Windows 10 on a Surface Pro 2 which should be faster than a Mac mini early 2009 since it has better/newer hardware, even if that mini has 8GB of mem and an SSD (the Surface has similar specs, the cpu and gpu are the only real differences and of course the age of the hardware (2013 vs 2009)). Yet it isn't. The mini with El Capitan is just as fast. Just not with everything because a Core 2 Duo is still slower than the Core i5 in the Surface.

When we compare the performance of Windows 10 and OS X El Capitan we see that it is the hardware and not the operating system that makes the difference. When it comes to usability, well, that highly depends on what you are used to, what software you require and so on; it's a personal thing. Both Microsoft and Apple paid attention and they both admitted that the new OS needs to focus on stability and performance instead of new features. Difference is that Apple has a longterm vision for OS X whereas Microsoft only has a short-term vision if they have any vision at all. We'll have to see if they are able to stick to their vision or not.

 

[lagwagon]

I installed Windows 10 in Bootcamp on my MBP. It's extremely fast, no lags whatsoever (unlike Yosemite), the Edge browser opens instantaneously. I had no hardware issues, everything worked well using the old Bootcamp drivers. It has some things which are clearly inspired by OS X (e.g. the new system settings panel = System Preferences; the Task View = Mission Control; the new notification center). It is designed to work on both laptops and tablets with the interface adapting to each device, something I wish Apple did with OS X. It's a good operating system and to be honest it makes OS X look a little bit dated.

Windows 10 makes OS X look dated? Really? There are still elements in Windows 10 that look like Windows 98.

 

[Beavix]

And there are still things in OS X which look like Tiger, so...

 

[lagwagon]

And there are still things in OS X which look like Tiger, so...

Not really. All the graphics have Yosemite/El Captian styling and is consistent throughout the entire OS. Where in Windows there are still things that use Windows 98 graphics. (Many icons and such)

 

[762999]

When we compare the performance of Windows 10 and OS X El Capitan we see that it is the hardware and not the operating system that makes the difference. When it comes to usability, well, that highly depends on what you are used to, what software you require and so on; it's a personal thing. Both Microsoft and Apple paid attention and they both admitted that the new OS needs to focus on stability and performance instead of new features. Difference is that Apple has a longterm vision for OS X whereas Microsoft only has a short-term vision if they have any vision at all. We'll have to see if they are able to stick to their vision or not.

+1

I have a recent PC (i7 4970k) and I still want to buy an iMac 5k because of the quality of the Mac softwares. The app ecosystem is the thing that make me use this OS more.

 

[b0fh666]

well i just did some remote work in a windows server whatever (looked like windows 8 i guess) and wtf those guys were thinking with those huge window borders????

disgusting.

 

[Beavix]

Not really. All the graphics have Yosemite/El Captian styling and is consistent throughout the entire OS.

Oh well they've changed the icons, that's a HUGE change which makes my life much easier. Not.

There are two things OS X kicks ass at: battery life and the trackpad. OMG the trackpad movement is awesome in OS X.

 

[lagwagon]

Oh well they've changed the icons, that's a HUGE change which makes my life much easier. Not.

Considering my original comment was on the fact someone said Windows 10 makes OS X look dated. Making your life easier was not even part of the discussion. We were talking about the looks of the OS. Windows is way far behind in that. Text looks bad, icons are very bad and low quality. It's Windows that is stuck 10+ years in the past and looks dated.

 

[dyn]

well i just did some remote work in a windows server whatever (looked like windows 8 i guess) and wtf those guys were thinking with those huge window borders????

disgusting.

That's because Microsoft uses the same base for the client OS and the server OS. You can run Windows Server without "GUI" (you still get a GUI where it will display cmd). To manage these servers you can use the commandline (Powershell) and the server tools on a client or management server. In large networks the latter is usually already done (bastion server) to minimise security impact. In reality the Windows client GUI on the server is not that bad. It might be weird but that's it.

 

[b0fh666]

sure, not bad, but whats the point of those huge borders? easier to pick for resizing on tablets, i guess... for ppl like me that would not use a tablet to do a computer's job ever, its disgusting

 

[dyn]

It has a use on the client but not on the server. The server just uses it because it is part of the GUI. That's what you get when sharing bits 'n pieces

 

[KALLT]

And there are still things in OS X which look like Tiger, so...

Such as?

 

[KALLT]

Windows 10 is a nice Windows version...after you disabled tons of privacy invasive stuff and tweaked some other settings. Took me a day. And then I'm one of the few who did the upgrade with the ISO without any issues. Too many people cannot say that.

My family has had nothing but problems with the Windows 10 upgrade process. On my brother’s desktop PC with Windows 7 the activation tool (whatever it is called) just doesn’t show up. There is a section in Windows Update that has a big button on it to launch it, but it doesn’t do anything. We’ve checked on the web for help and found a lengthy blog post on Microsoft.com that has lots of solutions (which are not at all friendly to inexperienced users), none of which worked. Things like creating a batch script to force the system to verify the installation again, which loops endlessly, removing stuff from the registry even so far as reinstalling Windows 7 to get a fresh start. The system is fine, it is fully patched and fairly new (6 months old) and the copy legit and activated. Yet nothing happens, he can’t reserve his copy and he has already had enough after this.

My dad was first unable to get the updater to go through the preparatory stage (it simply failed and showed as an unsuccessful attempt). After several attempts the system finally rebooted and started the installation and then simply failed again halfway through. We’ve cleared the download cache and obtained a fresh copy, but it still won’t work. Also a fairly recent system that came with Windows 8 and was updated to 8.1 not so long a go. No crazy things on it. Then he tried to reinstall Windows 8 as well but couldn’t anymore. Now he needs to download the ISO and do it manually. On my old laptop I had similar errors and it only worked after several attempts.

This says it all, really. Ever since Apple distributed OS X through the App Store, I couldn’t be happier with the upgrade process. You download the installer, it opens, you select the partition, you wait at most 30 minutes and that’s it. The best part is that it creates/updates the recovery system first, so you’re good to go even if something goes wrong (and I haven’t had any problems with that, ever, not even with betas). With Time Machine you can always restore.

The fact that in typical Windows manner you are greeted with a convoluted settings screen when you first start, with a few unclear toggles and lots of privacy-related settings that you need to hunt down yourself, is just the tip of the iceberg. Windows works if you are meticulous about all the toggles and love bureaucracy or just don’t care at all and just want to start your three apps and that’s it.

 

[azpc]

"Looking at your post history (the small amount of posts you have since you joined in 2011), much of it is nothing but attempts to promote Microsoft Windows at any cost. You've lost tons of credibility and there's no reason for anyone to take your posts seriously."

I'm sorry your mistaken, I'm no Microsoft man, Never have been.

Currently I own the following Apple Products:

• MacBook Pro 15
  
• MacBook Pro 13
• 27 inch iMac
• iPad Air 2
• iPhone 6+
• iPod Nano

Windows 10 is a remarkable product for Microsoft. After two days of extensive testing I'm surprised that they were able to develop this product. Congratulations are in order.

Now having said that, Microsoft is far from perfect. In the not too distant past, I sent Bill Gates three, six page letters detailing all of the problems with Windows.

Why post on MacRumors?

Idea sharing is a critical part of the innovation process. Apple engineers frequent these pages and maybe just maybe, a comment here or there may inspire an idea for improvement or another great product.

Great ideas do not come from an atmosphere of hagiography. Nor do they come from an atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Great ideas come in an atmosphere where individuals and groups can honestly and objectively discuss what is wrong with a product and what is right.

In this case, I was congratulating Microsoft on an amazingly good job. Now it is Apple's turn with El Capitan.

I am hoping Apple will be concerned with Windows 10. I personally think that the Mac has been a bit neglected over the past five years. Good competition usually inspires superior products. A first class OSX would be wonderful! Hopefully, El Capitan will be just that.

Why do I think the Mac has been neglected?

• How long has it been since we have seen a great Mac commercial? Stickers on your Mac?

• New features and improvements to iLife, (iTunes or iMovie, Garage Band)?

• New features and improvements to iWorks (Pages, Numbers, Keynote)?

Read the latest 500 reviews regarding Yosemite on the app store. Or this open letter to Tim Cook from MacDailyNews:

http://macdailynews.com/2015/01/05/open-letter-to-tim-cook-apple-needs-to-do-better/

Competition to produce a superior product is what drives Apple. They have not had much competition for the last five years and its seems like the Mac has suffered. Maybe that will change now. Let us hope!


“We’re here to put a dent in the universe. Otherwise why else even be here?”

—Steve Jobs

 

[dyn]

Apple commercials have mostly been USA-only. UK, Germany and France have had them too. In the Netherlands they've only been there in the 90s for a very little while. The only Apple commercials we see here are from the companies selling Apple products.

iTunes isn't part of iLife btw and it is THE app that has seen the most changes in history of OS X. It has been said many times that iTunes seems to be Apples GUI testbed. iLife has seen reductions in apps since we got rid of the optical drive and the website part of .Mac/MobileMe/iCloud, Photos is now replacing iPhoto and iLife has been brought to iOS. There are constant changes, small but they are making things easier. iWork has been redesigned sort to speak. It's now on iOS, OS X and the web just like competitors. They also have similar features. Numbers could be expanded with things like PowerQuery, PowerPivot and so on but how many people on both iOS and Mac are going to use that? There simply isn't that much to add to the iWork suite.

Features are not the reason why people say Apple neglected OS X. It's the lack of attention and quality (which is highly debatable, one needs to understand that iOS much newer than OS X and thus requires much more work).

Microsoft had more issues and needed Windows 10. The reason why they are giving it away is to do what Apple has been doing the past years: create a platform. Microsoft thinks that you should do this by using 1 OS on all the devices whereas Apple does it by integrating components from the different OSs and using iCloud. Apple does it slowly and phased, Microsoft seems to be doing it in 1 go (Windows 10). Usually doing it slowly and phased is the better way of doing it, cold turkey causes the most friction and issues (changes are too big).

 

[AFEPPL]

Apple quality is simply too poor now, it like VW - built on past successes only and just doesn't ring true anymore. I've upgraded to Win10 and I'm very impressed, it runs smoother, looks much better and is quicker/smoother even on an old machine than Yosemite is on the latest hardware. I'm going to give it Win10 a month and if no problems pop up I'm planning to replace OS X on my mac devices.

I just can't face another pants upgrade from apple and months of issues again.
Still OS X could be worse, it could be in the same mess as iOS...!

 

[azpc]

With 200 Billion in the bank Apple is no longer the underdog. Expectations have changed. People are willing to give the underdog a second and third chance to get it right.

Apple on the other hand is expected to get it right the first time or have the corrections in place very quickly.

Users are not expecting fewer features, they are expecting greater ease of use and functionality. This explains the outrage over the changes in iLife and iWorks and the professional apps.

Expectations are a tricky thing to manage. Steve Jobs understood this. He recommended this book on the topic.

http://www.amazon.com/Only-Paranoid...259&sr=8-1&keywords=only+the+paranoid+survive

Apple needs to realize that expectations have changed dramatically. Life for Apple will not be easier, instead it will be harder. Apple has a great opportunity to seize control of the computing market. However, with great opportunities comes great risk.

Windows 10 is a very good product. Apple will have to do much better job with El Capitan than they did with Yosemite if they wish to survive and thrive.

 

[hojx]

With 200 Billion in the bank Apple is no longer the underdog. Expectations have changed.

Under what criteria was Apple the underdog?

How did having "200 billion in the bank" result in Apple no longer being the underdog, and how did expectations change due to that?

People are willing to give the underdog a second and third chance to get it right.

Apple on the other hand is expected to get it right the first time or have the corrections in place very quickly.

Users are not expecting fewer features, they are expecting greater ease of use and functionality. This explains the outrage over the changes in iLife and iWorks and the professional apps.

Who was initially better than Apple and is now an underdog?

How did that company at that time "get it right the first time" and "have corrections in place very quickly"?

Expectations are a tricky thing to manage. Steve Jobs understood this. He recommended this book on the topic.

View attachment 573467

http://www.amazon.com/Only-Paranoid...259&sr=8-1&keywords=only+the+paranoid+survive

View attachment 573463

The point?

Apple needs to realize that expectations have changed dramatically. Life for Apple will not be easier, instead it will be harder. Apple has a great opportunity to seize control of the computing market. However, with great opportunities comes great risk.

Since life for Apple "will be harder", how was it easy previously?

What is the opportunity in seizing "control of the computing market" and what are the risks?

Who is Apple seizing "control of the computing market" from, and how has that company controlled the computing market?

Windows 10 is a very good product. Apple will have to do much better job with El Capitan than they did with Yosemite if they wish to survive and thrive.

Why is Windows 10 "a very good product"?

Is Apple not doing a "much better job with El Capitan than they did with Yosemite"? In what ways?

 

[throttlemeister]

Windows 10 is a great product. So is OS X. I would have no problem running W10 as the OS of my personal computer. If only for the fact that it isn't unix and that was one of the main reasons I switched to the Mac years ago. I probably spend more than half my time living in the terminal on the command line. Can't do that on Windows, so it will be a while before I would do such a thing. But still.

Microsoft is doing a great job lately. I have a Nokia 930 for work and it's an amazing phone. Looks good, works even better and just does what it needs to do. And it gets 2-3 times the battery life of my iPhone 6, no problem. I very much look forward to getting W10 on it and it will be an even better phone. Now that Windows on the phone (finally) supports iCloud contacts and calendars, its not unlikely my next personal phone will be a Microsoft one. Similar performance and features, double or triple the battery life and at half the price, what's not to like.

Microsoft are slowly but surely getting their stuff in order and they ought to be commended for it. Doesn't matter if you are a Mac user or not, or want to work with Windows or not, they are creating good products these days. Which gives us, the users, more choice and it spurs innovation. The worst thing that could happen for us Mac users, is Microsoft producing crap and going down the drain. The best thing that can happen for us Mac users is Microsoft hitting the ball out of the park. Repeatedly.

 

[762999]

Windows 10 is a great product. So is OS X. I would have no problem running W10 as the OS of my personal computer. If only for the fact that it isn't unix and that was one of the main reasons I switched to the Mac years ago. I probably spend more than half my time living in the terminal on the command line. Can't do that on Windows, so it will be a while before I would do such a thing. But still.

I'm puzzled why you can't use a command line interface on Windows. All the machine (desktop/server) management, administration (or anything else) can be done in Powershell. If you like to stick to your unix tool you could just install Cygwin and use everything you know in a Windows environment. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[throttlemeister]

Powershell isn't helpful when I am messing with my unix based servers, testing things locally, pulling stuff over or pushing things back. Cygwin is an option and it works ok, but it is definitely not the same as working on a real unix system. It is not a complete environment. And I didn't say it was impossible, just not my preferred option at the moment.

 

[dyn]

I'm puzzled why you can't use a command line interface on Windows. All the machine (desktop/server) management, administration (or anything else) can be done in Powershell. If you like to stick to your unix tool you could just install Cygwin and use everything you know in a Windows environment. Unless I'm missing something.

Powershell runs Powershell scripts only. No bash, no ordinary shellscript, none. If you have those and/or other unix tools then Powershell isn't an option.

Using putty, Exceed, etc. is possible but that means you connect to another machine and if it is remote you still have to be able to connect to it.

Cygwin is a nice solution if you want to have the basic tools. On the Cygwin website it is clearly stated that Cygwin isn't a complete UNIX/Linux solution and if you are looking for that you need to look elsewhere. It cannot run all of the available UNIX tools nor do those tools support Cygwin. Some of them are known to not work and recommend against the use of Cygwin. If you have a solution that consists of (shell)scripts and apps working together to simulate stuff (which isn't uncommon!) it usually means that when using Windows you'll have to rewrite them. No problem if you have the time to do so and the knowledge as well.

So yes, you are indeed missing something: why and what people are using the UNIX part of OS X for. That's why they are stuck with UNIX/Linux systems like SUSE, Debian, Red Hat, OS X and so on. The downside of Linux is the support on notebooks. It has gotten better over time but there still are some issues, especially regarding hibernation/sleep and power management. OS X is better at this and is able to run those UNIX/Linux software. That's the reason why many have or are switching to OS X.