Constant Kernel Panics – userspace watchdog timeout: no successful checkins from com.apple.WindowServer

[drdaz]

Have you had any since Big Sur?

So here's an update, not sure it's what anybody wants to hear, but here goes.

I replaced my new 5700 xt on Monday because it was showing faults in both Windows and macOS. Aside from these watchdog / windowserver panics on idle about once every day or 2, I was seeing the displays glitching (both at the same time, with the same pattern; looked like a sync issue) followed shortly after by both screens going black and seemingly halting everything else (any playing sounds stopped). Also about once every day or 2.

I posted my comment about Big Sur's drivers shortly after replacing the faulty gfx card. I went about a day in there without any issues, but then found I needed to boot Catalina again because of some work software that wasn't quite ready for Big Sur yet. I decided to stay in Catalina, since if I replaced the gfx card *and* moved OS, it would be hard to know which change affected my issues (if indeed there was any difference in behaviour). I haven't seen one of these panics since.

When I was seeing this issue on my 2019 Vega MBP, it would happen on average between 1-2 times per week. I think my record uptime was around 7-8 days with both screens attached. So for me, having gone 4-5 days without one of these panics proves nothing. It could still come back.

But, the fact that this panic was happening daily using the faulty graphics card does strongly suggest that faulty hardware is one potential cause of this crash. This doesn't imply there aren't other causes - in fact there are already several different routes to this crash described in this thread, which I suspect must have different underlying causes. This panic only occurred on my MBP when it was idle and close to transitioning to the sleep state. Playing a video on loop would prevent this from happening. Some people here are finding that playing a video causes the panic for them... so, yeah it's hard to really conclude anything other than this is a mess.

What follows may be an unrelated aside, but I'm posting it here for completeness.

This morning I woke up to the Hack refusing to recognise that one of my monitors (which are identical) was capable of 4k@60Hz. No amount of rebooting or reconnecting monitors changed that. I had to remove the com.apple.windowserver.plist file from /Library/Preferences (losing all other display settings) in order to regain the full capability of my screen. I also saw this exact behaviour using the aforementioned MBP and reported it to Apple. I have no idea of the cause, and Apple haven't responded to the bug report I filed.

If anything new and interesting happens, I'll post it here.

 

[star-affinity]

@drdaz
interesting to hear about your graphics card replacement.

I had the same thing done with my RX 5700 XT which at times gave a black screen in Windows 10 – would happen when gaming or running a GPU benchmark.

The reseller I bought it from was able to reproduce the problem and gave me a replacement card – Windows 10 has been stable ever since. Was hoping it might help for macOS too, but the watchdog stability problems in Catalina continues just like before for me.

Another interesting thing is that this has been a known issue in the Windows driver for a long time:

AMD will continue to monitor and investigate any new reports of black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay closely. Users are encouraged to use the new Bug Reporting Tool for any issues they may encounter.

Knowledge Base Search

www.amd.com

But I doubt it's related to the watchdog issue on macOS since it seems it happens also for Macs without that graphics card family. Also with Intel graphics if I understand correctly. My 2019 MacBook Pro 13” at work seems spared from the problem, but I did get a Kernel Panic upon wake once. It didn’t mention “watchdog”, though.


Anyway – like you said – we can conclude it’s a mess... ?

 

[tommiy]

Thanks for the info. Short answer is if your machine is still covered by warranty get it fixed before that runs out. Seems that there is little other action taking place to resolve the problem. The reports in Bigsur is that the problem remains so holding out will not help. Seems repair is one of the only options.

 

[drdaz]

Thanks for the info. Short answer is if your machine is still covered by warranty get it fixed before that runs out. Seems that there is little other action taking place to resolve the problem. The reports in Bigsur is that the problem remains so holding out will not help. Seems repair is one of the only options.

My local Apple authorised seller said they probably wouldn't be able to reproduce the error because they don't have a couple 4k screens to test with. And that if they couldn't, they'd charge 500DKK for the inspection. Also didn't seem keen to test it for the up to 10 days needed to reproduce the error. And I've got AppleCare on the thing.

I love Apple's products, but their support on Macs should really be a criminal offence. Last time I dealt with Apple's phone support, it resulted in this debacle. Never again.

I hope others have more luck than I did.

 

[drdaz]

AMD will continue to monitor and investigate any new reports of black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay closely.

This isn't what I was seeing. It was also happening during light workloads (like scrolling a webpage) and sometimes shortly after wake. The card was definitely faulty.

 

[whittaker007]

If it helps narrow things down I'm getting the same kernel panic on a 2012 Mac Mini running Catalina connected to a 1080p TV. It almost always happens when I'm not actively using it, I'll wake it up to find that it's rebooted. My best guess was that it's a sleep or wake issue with an attached device. I've unplugged everything one by one and now connected to nothing but the TV.

 

[star-affinity]

If it helps narrow things down I'm getting the same kernel panic on a 2012 Mac Mini running Catalina connected to a 1080p TV. It almost always happens when I'm not actively using it, I'll wake it up to find that it's rebooted. My best guess was that it's a sleep or wake issue with an attached device. I've unplugged everything one by one and now connected to nothing but the TV.

In other words it also happens on a computer with Intel HD 4000 graphics.

 

[Ched73]

It's so sad once you get to the end of the thread and it's like ... good luck. I have a 5,1 with a RX 5700 XT and intermittent kernel panics. Did a fresh install of 10.15.6, but with no luck. I do have open core 0.6.1 running, not sure that makes a difference, as I got the panics without it installed as well. Happens once a day at least. Did anyone get a stable version of the os with Navi drivers and 5700 xt?

 

[cjvegas]

I have a Mac Pro 4,1 firmware to 5,1 running Catalina with opencore 0.6.1. Running Radeon RX580 with 3 Apple 24" Cinema Displays connected. MacOS is running off a PCIe card with a SSD. Having exactly the same issue. When running in MacOS If I leave the machine for any extended period of time, and I think the displays having been turned off it will have rebooted itself and then show up the Panic Attack report on logging in, that usually happens if I leave the machine over night and between 1-3 hours after I have stopped using it. Windows I have running off a SSD in the spare optical bay slot, no issues, can stay on all day and all night and not have any shutdown issues at all.

It can do the freeze either under heavy workload, ie rendering a FCPX file, or no load when I am just scrolling web pages.

Every now and then, probably once a week, it will do the freeze issue and than after about 2 minutes reboot. Nothing works to get it back alive, it wont let me SSH into it from another machine. Its just frozen shut.

I have removed that MacOS SSD and put in my old version with MoJave on it, before I bought the new SSD and superdupper it onto it and then apple Dosdude1 patched Catalina.

Since I have been running MoJave for the last week, not one freeze and doesn't reboot over night.


So FWIW, I think it is Catalina specific. Next step is I will put in my old 7950 card and run Catalina and see if it does the reboot or not.

 

[Guy Brush]

Just a quick update: since I've experienced a KP where the app Slack seemed to be involved, I've stopped using it (just quit it, it is still installed, though) and I've not had a single WindowServer-KP since then. *fingerscrossed*
Of course, it is utterly inconvenient not being able to use that app, but for now it stays off.
All power management settings are reset to "normal" (including enabling display sleep and system sleep) - so far no issues any more!

Anyone else wanna try this? My guess is that a lot of folks have Slack installed out there...

 

[star-affinity]

Just a quick update: since I've experienced a KP where the app Slack seemed to be involved, I've stopped using it (just quit it, it is still installed, though) and I've not had a single WindowServer-KP since then. *fingerscrossed*
Of course, it is utterly inconvenient not being able to use that app, but for now it stays off.
All power management settings are reset to "normal" (including enabling display sleep and system sleep) - so far no issues any more!

Anyone else wanna try this? My guess is that a lot of folks have Slack installed out there...

For what it's worth I more or less always have Slack running on my work computer; a MacBook Pro 13" from 2019 that runs Catalina 10.15.6, and I never get the watchdog Kernel Panic on that. ?‍♂️

 

[johnalan]

Since the logic board replacement didn’t fix it I’ve now escalated passed customer relations and am now dealing with macOS team at Apple.

It’s been so much effort on my part.

3 senior advisors. 2 customer relations folks, and an area manager later still trying to get traction.

I’m not dropping it.

Either fix the computer or admit Catalina has issues with some hardware Configs.

 

[cfdlab]

I used to get almost everyday but since more than 2 weeks, I have not had any crashes.

Nothing has changed, I use same set of apps.

Except that my battery was replaced under applecare since it was bulging. But how could that have any relation to these KPs ?

2 year old mbp and I got a new battery/keyboard, so thats a positive development for me, and so far no KPs.

 

[cfdlab]

FindMyMac was switched off when I sent it for repair. I have not turned it on. Thats one difference from before which I forgot to mention.

 

[star-affinity]

Since the logic board replacement didn’t fix it I’ve now escalated passed customer relations and am now dealing with macOS team at Apple.

It’s been so much effort on my part.

3 senior advisors. 2 customer relations folks, and an area manager later still trying to get traction.

I’m not dropping it.

Either fix the computer or admit Catalina has issues with some hardware Configs.

Kudos to you for not giving in! ??

 

[cfdlab]

Well, after my last post I got a KP.

 

[cjvegas]

So I upgraded since my last post to Big Sur beta 6 I think it is. I have been running now for 24 hours. I haven't had a single Kernel Panic attack. Same machine nothing else changed. Just upgraded.

In my case at least, I think it had to be something to do with Catalina, whether it was a corrupt install or just an issue.

I didn't do a clean install of Big Sur, just your normal install over the Catalina with issues.

By the way, except for a few bugs (ie the music app has gone to crap) I am liking Big Sur a lot.

 

[okieoutwest]

I went to install the 10.15.6 Update yesterday on my 2015 MBA along with the Safari update. The Safari update worked, but while still in the black-update-screen the machine experienced a kernel panic.

Prior to trying to install this 10.15.6 update, I had no issues. My MBA was up for weeks in a row, almost always attached to an external 1080 display with a USB mouse & bluetooth keyboard. No other new software or peripheral changes that could be the culprit. I don't run any virtualization.

Just wanted to add another anecdote and see if others run into this issue specifically triggered by this update. Or if I'm now just with the rest of the bunch that has unexplained KPs and no real solution...

Here's some of the error report:

panic(cpu 2 caller 0xffffff7f9de50aae): watchdog timeout: no checkins from watchdogd in 310 seconds (37 totalcheckins since monitoring last enabled), shutdown in progress

Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
com.apple.driver.watchdog(1.0)[832CC890-EE61-33E0-8FD4-8D354BCD0921]@0xffffff7f9de4f000->0xffffff7f9de57fff
com.apple.driver.AppleSMC(3.1.9)[AB612149-B321-3B95-8741-B99E79274FCD]@0xffffff7f9de58000->0xffffff7f9de76fff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.4)[68557A36-4EE1-372A-983B-BB2769FDB8E0]@0xffffff7f9de46000
dependency: com.apple.driver.watchdog(1)[832CC890-EE61-33E0-8FD4-8D354BCD0921]@0xffffff7f9de4f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[B130A8B7-967F-330E-942F-E0BB93C71C56]@0xffffff7f9d731000

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
19G73

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 19.6.0: Sun Jul 5 00:43:10 PDT 2020; root:xnu-6153.141.1~9/RELEASE_X86_64
Kernel UUID: 783946EA-6F11-3647-BF90-787AEA14B954
Kernel slide: 0x000000001ca00000
Kernel text base: 0xffffff801cc00000
__HIB text base: 0xffffff801cb00000
System model name: MacBookAir7,2 (Mac-937CB26E2E02BB01)
System shutdown begun: YES
Panic diags file available: YES (0x0)

 

[star-affinity]

So I upgraded since my last post to Big Sur beta 6 I think it is. I have been running now for 24 hours. I haven't had a single Kernel Panic attack. Same machine nothing else changed. Just upgraded.

In my case at least, I think it had to be something to do with Catalina, whether it was a corrupt install or just an issue.

I didn't do a clean install of Big Sur, just your normal install over the Catalina with issues.

By the way, except for a few bugs (ie the music app has gone to crap) I am liking Big Sur a lot.

Sounds good. Do you put the machine to sleep and wake it often? That's when it mostly triggered for me.
Big Sur beta 7 out for developers. Hope it stays stable.

I went to install the 10.15.6 Update yesterday on my 2015 MBA along with the Safari update. The Safari update worked, but while still in the black-update-screen the machine experienced a kernel panic.

Prior to trying to install this 10.15.6 update, I had no issues. My MBA was up for weeks in a row, almost always attached to an external 1080 display with a USB mouse & bluetooth keyboard. No other new software or peripheral changes that could be the culprit. I don't run any virtualization.

Just wanted to add another anecdote and see if others run into this issue specifically triggered by this update. Or if I'm now just with the rest of the bunch that has unexplained KPs and no real solution...

Here's some of the error report:

panic(cpu 2 caller 0xffffff7f9de50aae): watchdog timeout: no checkins from watchdogd in 310 seconds (37 totalcheckins since monitoring last enabled), shutdown in progress

Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
com.apple.driver.watchdog(1.0)[832CC890-EE61-33E0-8FD4-8D354BCD0921]@0xffffff7f9de4f000->0xffffff7f9de57fff
com.apple.driver.AppleSMC(3.1.9)[AB612149-B321-3B95-8741-B99E79274FCD]@0xffffff7f9de58000->0xffffff7f9de76fff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.4)[68557A36-4EE1-372A-983B-BB2769FDB8E0]@0xffffff7f9de46000
dependency: com.apple.driver.watchdog(1)[832CC890-EE61-33E0-8FD4-8D354BCD0921]@0xffffff7f9de4f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[B130A8B7-967F-330E-942F-E0BB93C71C56]@0xffffff7f9d731000

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
19G73

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 19.6.0: Sun Jul 5 00:43:10 PDT 2020; root:xnu-6153.141.1~9/RELEASE_X86_64
Kernel UUID: 783946EA-6F11-3647-BF90-787AEA14B954
Kernel slide: 0x000000001ca00000
Kernel text base: 0xffffff801cc00000
__HIB text base: 0xffffff801cb00000
System model name: MacBookAir7,2 (Mac-937CB26E2E02BB01)
System shutdown begun: YES
Panic diags file available: YES (0x0)

Yup, that's the one.

 

[okieoutwest]

Yup, that's the one.

Just another hiccup in this weird time... Thankfully the machine hasn't spontaneously started rebooting yet and seems normal -- except when rebooting. So will just wait and hope the Big Sur update might fix it as @cjvegas is reporting (tentatively).

 

[cfdlab]

Just another hiccup in this weird time... Thankfully the machine hasn't spontaneously started rebooting yet and seems normal -- except when rebooting. So will just wait and hope the Big Sur update might fix it as @cjvegas is reporting (tentatively).

I get exact same problem. It happens only when I shutdown my laptop at he end of the day. sleep/wake is no problem.

 

[kernelpanicffs]

Hi All, first time poster, long time reader and fan of the boards.

Chiming in just to say I just updated to Big Sur 7 and am praying to the Apple gods for a fix here. Have had non-stop Kernel Panics over 3 iMacs over the last 6 months or so after I traded in my old one for a brand new one, which Apple then replaced with an upgraded one free of charge because of the issue. We basically isolated it it to my iMac crashing anytime it woke up my two external displays (both 100% fine.)

They tried to blame any and all peripherals and even my RAM for the issue and following me troubleshooting every single test they asked for I got a call for a different Executive Liaison who told me the person who had previously been coordinating between me and the engineers (an Apple Executive Customer Relations person) no longer works there, the engineers are aware of the issue, and it may be fixed in a future update - but they can't tell me if or when, or make any guarantees it will ever be fixed.

When I expressed to them that's unacceptable considering the cost of these devices and being able to run an external display is a pretty basic functionality a Chromebook could do - they told me that's their position and that's all they'll say.

After multiple follows up they basically told me to get lost and they won't do anything and if they ever fix it I'll be lucky and if not deal with it.

The last message I got read

Hello [Redacted],

Thank you for your recent emails. I can certainly understand your frustration.

While Apple’s position remains the same, we do thank you for taking the time to share your feedback.

Not sure what to make of that but just wanted to share my experience.

Anyone have any luck with Big Sur 7 Beta?

 

[johnalan]

Hi All, first time poster, long time reader and fan of the boards.

Chiming in just to say I just updated to Big Sur 7 and am praying to the Apple gods for a fix here. Have had non-stop Kernel Panics over 3 iMacs over the last 6 months or so after I traded in my old one for a brand new one, which Apple then replaced with an upgraded one free of charge because of the issue. We basically isolated it it to my iMac crashing anytime it woke up my two external displays (both 100% fine.)

They tried to blame any and all peripherals and even my RAM for the issue and following me troubleshooting every single test they asked for I got a call for a different Executive Liaison who told me the person who had previously been coordinating between me and the engineers (an Apple Executive Customer Relations person) no longer works there, the engineers are aware of the issue, and it may be fixed in a future update - but they can't tell me if or when, or make any guarantees it will ever be fixed.

When I expressed to them that's unacceptable considering the cost of these devices and being able to run an external display is a pretty basic functionality a Chromebook could do - they told me that's their position and that's all they'll say.

After multiple follows up they basically told me to get lost and they won't do anything and if they ever fix it I'll be lucky and if not deal with it.

The last message I got read



Not sure what to make of that but just wanted to share my experience.

Anyone have any luck with Big Sur 7 Beta?

Linux is starting to look really tempting.
I'd switch to Android too if the apps weren't all written in Java and forced through that disgusting JVM.

 

[joeblough]

this may or may not be relevant, but i have an x299 hackintosh running 10.14 with an RX580. probably 20% of the time, when the machine is unlocked via apple watch while the display is sleeping, i get a kernel panic in the radeon driver. this *never* happens if the machine is unlocked with a password. i think this is a different problem, but it seems all the radeon drivers on OSX suffer from some serious corner case bugs. frankly i'm shocked that apple has let this go on for you guys for so long.

edit: i should add that one display is a dell 4k monitor, which i think was mentioned upthread as a possible contributing factor.

 

[kernelpanicffs]

Hi all - just chiming back in to let you know just had my first crash with Big Sur Beta 7 - so nothing fixed here.