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MP 7,1 CPU upgrade in 2019 Mac Pro

I am using an Apple aluminum USB wired keyboard . I even tried it with a type A to Type C adapter connected to the thunderbolt ports and nothing happens . NVRAM ( pressed the PRAM keys at start up ) will not clear and my optical mouse does not light up .
 
Snow Tiger said:
I am using an Apple aluminum USB wired keyboard . I even tried it with a type A to Type C adapter connected to the thunderbolt ports and nothing happens . NVRAM ( pressed the PRAM keys at start up ) will not clear and my optical mouse does not light up .
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Apple Technician Guide is not available for 2019 Mac Pro yet, so I still don't know if there are a DIAG button and diagnostic LEDS with MP7,1 logic board, there is? Did you checked if there is one?
 
There is a tech document about plugging into the RIGHT top TB3 port with a standard USB end plugged into a power adapter for resetting. Unsure the specific details and cannot find the doc on phone right now.
 
danwells said:
One interesting question, assuming it's possible to buy the CPUs anywhere, is whether it'll support the non-M versions of the 24 or 28 core CPUs? The upgrades aren't overpriced for the M CPUs... On the other hand, the non-M CPUs are half the price of the M version. Assuming you knew you'd never need more than 768 GB of RAM (which is unimaginably huge for a lot of workloads), you could save thousands...

It almost seems like OWC or someone like them should run a Mac Pro hot-rod service where they put in standard w-3265 or w-3275 processors and 192 or 384 GB of RAM for way under what Apple charges... The savings on the processor are about $2500 compared to the versions Apple uses, and the RAM is $1800 cheaper for 192 GB and $3700 cheaper for 384 GB... No, it's not quite the same as the Apple upgrade because it's not the M processor, but it's equal for most uses for many thousands less.
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This is the big question, because as noted it's unlikely this socket is going to see new processors, so if you can slot in a non-M that's probably the best (and certainly cheapest!) option for -W upgrades.

Functionally, the non M/M versions are literally identical in every spec on ark.intel.com except for their RAM limit. My gut says this swap wouldn't be a problem at all, but until someone does it who knows.
 
I did not notice any diagnostic LEDs on the logic board when I installed the processor .

I just tried plugging my wired keyboard into an USB Type A to USB Type C adapter and plugged that into the right top TB3 port and still nothing . Is a form factor adapter the same as a power adapter ?
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tsialex said:
This Apple article has two ways to reset the SMC for MP7,1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295
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I just tried both ways and neither worked .
 
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Snow Tiger said:
I did not notice any diagnostic LEDs on the logic board when I installed the processor .

I just tried plugging my wired keyboard into an USB Type A to USB Type C adapter and plugged that into the right top TB3 port and still nothing . Is a form factor adapter the same as a power adapter ?
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I just tried both ways and neither worked .
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Without the Apple Technician Guide for reference, it's complicated to diagnostic a brand new Mac model. Seems the only thing that you can do now is to go back to the original processor.
 
Did you plug a USB-C to USB-A into a standard USB wall charger and the USB-C end into the RIGHT top USB-C?

Really thought I posted that PDF support document on this forum that I found 6-8 weeks ago. Will have to look tomorrow if I saved it. Recall being very different for MP7,1 vs any other machine and specifically writing down a note to make sure USB-C to USB-A with wall charger was part of every machine I might ever setup.
 
flooglehorn dinglebop said:
That's all true, but a 16 core 3.2 (with 4.4 turbo) is a pretty decent upgrade from the 8 core, especially if using software that can do something useful with more than one core. That's a $3200 jump where I live, but give it a few years and it won't be so bad.

Just because the AMD chips are fast doesn't make the new Mac Pro slow: and as far as I've seen it's pretty fast, silent and doesn't ever run into thermal issues. Same goes for the PCIe standard, it's hardly holding it back. I'm sure there will be an update in a few years that has a newer PCIe standard — it's hardly going to make todays machines defunct though.

"It won't be."
And "2009 - 2017 didn't see a lot of progress in computing technology"

Hmm, I just looked up the specs on the 2009 model Mac pro. Topped out at 8 core 2.93GHZ (2 x 4), 8MB cache per processor, max (at launch) 32GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ram (which would have been very expensive. It came standard with 6GB), ATI Radeon HD 4870 with 512 MB of GDDR5 (4 x if you wanted: no PCIe slots left after that I would think). All mechanical spinner drives, Firewire 800, USB 2, SATA II. SSDs were just emerging as an option and that was only on SATA: you could spend a fortune and get a Mac RAID card and set up a RAID that wouldn't even get SATA SSD speeds. By comparison to todays model it all looks pretty pathetic but with upgrades over the years these machines are still rocking and definitely have proved to be 10 year machines. I'd still be using one if the logic board hadn't died, and if I had the time I could have easily replaced the logic board.

I don't think your logic that there wasn't much progress holds up: maybe in raw processor speed or nm, but everything else changed a lot. As more and more developers optimise their apps for multi core and GPU it only gets better for us. While we are waiting around for PCIe 5.0 to supercede our new computers why not just hold out for 6.0
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And how much of that new stuff could we get into a 5,1? Not much.

In that time period we moved from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0. We have now moved from 3.0 to 4.0 in 2019, and we'll move to to 5.0 by the end of 2021. How is NVMe working out on those 5,1? You are losing a slot to boot with. TB is still a solution in search of a problem. And Francisco Franco is still dead.

In CPUs, we were stuck on 4 cores/8 threads on main stream computers - we managed dual 6 cores/12 threads from 2009 until 2017. By 2020, consoles will be 8 cores/16 threads, HEDT now starts at 16 cores/32 threads and goes to 64 cores/128 threads.

Intel's IPCs were only showing an average 5% increases in IPC in that time period. We are now seeing 10% - 15% IPC increases for each Zen generation. That isn't stopping anytime soon. TSMC is now sampling for 5nm.

I am not saying that you can't continue to use duct tape and bailing wire to keep 5,1s going. What I am saying is that I don't feel the extra work simply isn't worth it.

I am just tired of dealing with the Does this work with my Mac Pro?

I am just tired of researching work arounds.

I just stick the hardware in, and It Just Works.

I am doing this on a new system that draws 1/2 the power in wattage, but is about 125% more powerful. And it isn't even a HEDT chip, it is the top of AMD's consumer CPU lineup.
 
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I tried to see if there were any logic board diagnostic LEDs lit and , of course , it is not possible to remove the housing while the System is on as the power cord prevents removal .

I don't believe it is possible to start up the System with the housing removed , but I'll try .
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bsbeamer said:
Did you plug a USB-C to USB-A into a standard USB wall charger and the USB-C end into the RIGHT top USB-C?

Really thought I posted that PDF support document on this forum that I found 6-8 weeks ago. Will have to look tomorrow if I saved it. Recall being very different for MP7,1 vs any other machine and specifically writing down a note to make sure USB-C to USB-A with wall charger was part of every machine I might ever setup.
Click to expand...

I was not aware of that support document . Does someone have a link ?

And the wall charger method of reset seems really non intuitive .

I did not try that method yet .
 
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Revive or restore an Intel-based Mac using Apple Configurator 2

In rare circumstances, Apple computers may become unresponsive and the chip’s firmware must be revived.
support.apple.com

also see this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210422


Prepare the Mac Pro to revive the firmware

You need to revive the firmware in a Mac Pro if the light turns amber and flashes the following sequence in under four seconds: 3 short flashes, 3 long flashes, and 3 short flashes again. For more information, see Sleep indicator light behavior on Mac Pro.
  1. Disconnect the Mac Pro from power.
  2. Plug the cable into the Thunderbolt port farthest away from the power button.
  3. While holding down the power button, connect the Mac Pro to power and continue to hold the power button for about 10 seconds.
    Note: You won’t see any screen activity from the Mac Pro.
 
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bsbeamer said:

Revive or restore an Intel-based Mac using Apple Configurator 2

In rare circumstances, Apple computers may become unresponsive and the chip’s firmware must be revived.
support.apple.com

also see this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210422


Prepare the Mac Pro to revive the firmware

You need to revive the firmware in a Mac Pro if the light turns amber and flashes the following sequence in under four seconds: 3 short flashes, 3 long flashes, and 3 short flashes again. For more information, see Sleep indicator light behavior on Mac Pro.
  1. Disconnect the Mac Pro from power.
  2. Plug the cable into the Thunderbolt port farthest away from the power button.
  3. While holding down the power button, connect the Mac Pro to power and continue to hold the power button for about 10 seconds.
    Note: You won’t see any screen activity from the Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the document . My power light does not turn amber . It stays a solid white .
 
You are a hero Snow Tiger. Eagerly looking forward to the next update.

Thanks for doing this.
 
Snow Tiger said:
Thanks for the document . My power light does not turn amber . It stays a solid white .
Click to expand...

Understand that, but if you’re stuck in boot it may need to be “triggered” in some fashion to recover. I’d remove RAM sticks physically and try to reset several more times (3 in a row) as initial troubleshoot, then I’d try the firmware revive instructions even though you have the white light.
 
very cool stuff!

im curious how the system reacts to the CPU, since the Xeon SP line of CPUs only have 48 lanes according to intel, where as the Xeon W line up have the full 64 lanes enabled

I guess it depends if these missing PCIe links go to the PCIe bridge or not or if they go directly to a peripheral/slot

if they go to the PCIe bridge, then the bridge will just operate at less links then it would normally do, so less total bandwidth, but all slots will work

however if they go to a PCIe slot directly, then 1 of your PCIe slots might not work

or maybe somehow the MP firmware is forcing all 64 PCIe lanes, much like how the old W3690 CPUs etc only officially supported 24GB of RAM, but worked with up to 56GB in the MP5,1
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Snow Tiger said:
Thanks for the document . My power light does not turn amber . It stays a solid white .
Click to expand...

its just saying that if your MP is doing that then you need to restore the firmware

however you can put it into DFU mode regardless of its state and restore the firmware if you so wish to, just follow the part of the guide where it tells you how to do so
 
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"Understand that, but if you’re stuck in boot it may need to be “triggered” in some fashion to recover. I’d remove RAM sticks physically and try to reset several more times (3 in a row) as initial troubleshoot, then I’d try the firmware revive instructions even though you have the white light."

I tried the memory module repositioning , but it did not work . An old G4 trick .

My USB mouse / keyboard is not getting power . So I cannot reset NVRAM .

I think if I need to revive the firmware , I'll let my local Apple Store do it . I've updated a lot of firmware in the past , but if something goes wrong it'll be on Apple's dime ( hopefully ) .

At any rate , I'm going to reinstall the factory processor and see if my Mac comes back to life .

If it does , I'll post a processor upgrade instructional for the curious . The System does not need to be torn down to remove or install a processor if the right procedure is used .

I suspect Apple has a tool for this as the LGA 3647 processor is too heavy and large to safely be removed with just bare hands , iFixit notwithstanding . If something goes wrong there are just too many socket pins to realign .

On the PC side , the LGA 3647 is always mounted onto the CPU heatsink to form a PHM ( Processor Heatsink Module ) . Then it is safely installed into the socket .
 
Thanks To ruslan120 , ekwipt , John_B Beta and everyone else who has given kind words of encouragement .
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tsialex said:
Without the Apple Technician Guide for reference, it's complicated to diagnostic a brand new Mac model. Seems the only thing that you can do now is to go back to the original processor.
Click to expand...

And I was hoping you could write me some magical code to make everything work out :) .

You and Piker Alpha are the techs I respect the most .
 
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Snow Tiger said:
Thanks To ruslan120 , ekwipt , John_B Beta and everyone else who has given kind words of encouragement .
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And I was hoping you could write me some magical code to make everything work out :) .

You and Piker Alpha are the techs I respect the most .
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After you install your original Xeon, update to 10.15.3 DP1, Apple released several BridgeOS firmware upgrades since 19B88.

Don't install your Xeon Gold before doing the firmware upgrades, it's automatic with BridgeOS Macs, just install 19D49f.
 
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This is really interesting. I had a feeling the Scalable Xeons may be compatible, but possibly not since the system is identifying it as a Xeon-W, and then there were problems. It's hard to say if those problems were due to the CPU change because it looks like other things were done also, so it could be just a coincidence. I don't see why disabling SIP and booting from an external drive would be necessary when upgrading the CPU. It would also be interesting to see if anyone has reset the NVRAM with the original processor installed to see if it leads to a no-boot scenario.
 
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