MP 7,1 CPU upgrade in 2019 Mac Pro

[giggles]

That's a big plot hole. You pay for a boot drive that you never use then. The motherboard is so big Apple should just have put two normal m.2 sockets on it and stop tying the damn boot drive to the T2. A walled garden just to increase costs on the user. Most companies and creators are not made out of money and most people are living pay check to pay check. Everyone is desperate to save money so when a greedy corporation manipulates customers to spend more and more money and make their big shareholders even richer then that REALLY sucks.

What a big hurdle...insurmountable..a whole wasted paid-for 256GB flash stick.. (btw the 256GB blade is not an SSD, just a brainless flash carrier, the T2 is its brain and it would be needed anyway for other things, so only “half SSD” goes wasted)

Really really insurmountable hurdles...I’m sure pros are all getting worked up about it...
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Help, there’s a wasted paid-for 256GB for-maintenance-and-firmware-upgrade SSD in my 50k$ workstation...so unfair, I’m sending it back...

 

[Passingby]

What a big hurdle...insurmountable..a whole wasted paid-for 256GB flash stick.. (btw the 256GB blade is not an SSD, just a brainless flash carrier, the T2 is its brain and it would be needed anyway for other things, so only “half SSD” goes wasted)

Really really insurmountable hurdles...I’m sure pros are all getting worked up about it...

This will age well. Can't wait to see this post dug up within a year or two whenever users have a problem with their boot drives or motherboard problems.

 

[giggles]

This will age well. Can't wait to see this post dug up within a year or two whenever users have a problem with their boot drives.

Like, since they have exactly the same system, have we ever heard in 2 years about iMac Pro boot drives failing?

 

[Faraday]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but this UK article has tested various CPU and GPU upgrades, including non-apple supplied/supported options.

Mac Pro 2019: Interchangeable Parts, T2 Security & Custom Configuration - MacFinder Blog

Our Mac Pro 2019 arrived today and after 15 short minutes of looking at how pretty it is, and it truly is, we set to taking it apart. Our aim was to find

macfinder.co.uk

Conclusions were:

Suggests there should be plenty of options for CPU upgrades down the track.

 

[fuchsdh]

(I wanna thank all the pro market experts here who just signed up to macrumors, they really opened my eyes on what a majestic fail this walled garden overpriced obsolete excuse for a workstation is. Thanks guys.)

I'm 75% certain passerby is just an alt of sggbryan. They sound the exact same, beating the same tired PCIE and Threadripper drums.

 

[ssgbryan]

I'm 75% certain passerby is just an alt of sggbryan. They sound the exact same, beating the same tired PCIE and Threadripper drums.

Nope, I am much too lazy to create a sock puppet.

I never did drink P.T. Barnum's Koolaid. I moved to OSX from OS/2 because I needed a modern operating system with modern hardware.

Now that Apple no longer provides that, I am moving to a modern operating system with modern hardware.

A computer is a tool, not an extension of my person.

 

[fuchsdh]

Nope, I am much too lazy to create a sock puppet.

I never did drink P.T. Barnum's Koolaid. I moved to OSX from OS/2 because I needed a modern operating system with modern hardware.

Now that Apple no longer provides that, I am moving to a modern operating system with modern hardware.

A computer is a tool, not an extension of my person.

If that were true, you wouldn't still be on this forum with your "but actually!" posts.

 

[devnull16]

Interestingly , Apple has stated in their promo materials that the CPU socket will provide over 300 Watts of juice . That is just awesomely a lot and makes for some really seriously high end single processor configurations . This is the thing I love about Apple - the over-engineering and over-manufacturing of their top of the line computers .

For instance , no silicon Apple shipped with these machines uses a rated TDP of more than 205 W . On the PC side we'd need to worry Intel's printed specs are too conservative . Historically with the Mac Pros , our Xeons actually consume less juice than the printed specs when placed at full load . I suspect Apple must be under-volting them .

Here's a chart of the W series and the U suffix series Xeons . These are strict single processor system silicon . My 24 Core 6212U that I used in the upgrade absolutely sips power even at load :

View attachment 884136

Now for the bad news and I hate to rain on your parade .

The W-3175X , while consuming 255 W , has the wrong core stepping ( H0 ) . It doesn't match the steppings ( B1 ) of the Xeons Apple ships with the MP 7,1 . My 6212U also has B1 stepping , so I knew there was a reasonably good chance of compatibility . The thing I worried about was intel's marketing of their silicon . Would my Gold 6212U really be in the same subfamily of processors as the W series ? It seems it is .

Unless Apple really felt generous and plans future compatibility with this version , the W-3175X won't work .

Thanks for your answer. You're right, it does not seem to work due different core stepping (Unless Apple explicitly supports it). I'll wait until someone tries to use it.

Not sure if this has already been posted, but this UK article has tested various CPU and GPU upgrades, including non-apple supplied/supported options.

Mac Pro 2019: Interchangeable Parts, T2 Security & Custom Configuration - MacFinder Blog

Our Mac Pro 2019 arrived today and after 15 short minutes of looking at how pretty it is, and it truly is, we set to taking it apart. Our aim was to find

macfinder.co.uk

Conclusions were:

View attachment 884145

Suggests there should be plenty of options for CPU upgrades down the track.

Does that mean they used a Xeon Silver 4214 which has different core stepping L1 (SRFDG) than Xeons Apple ships (H0)? cc @Snow Tiger

 

[Macsonic]

His method of processor removal is really quite risky - just letting it drop out of the vertically positioned socket isn't a good idea . I could have done that quite easily when I got my Mac Pro 7,1 , but I performed a proper removal .

And funny he didn't show in the video how to install the processor in the empty socket . With those standoff plates intact , he'd have to drop that silicon in horizontally from an unhealthy height . Don't even think of installing a LGA 3647 processor vertically . The silicon must be gently lowered evenly on all the socket pins simultaneously .

Max Yuryev mentioned in his video ( around 9:03 ) the Mac Pro needs to be laid down when changing the processor. The Mac Pro was upright for demo purposes only as he mentioned. I know the Mac Pro needs to be laid down when changing CPUs. I shared this video to help this community for information sharing with reference to the thread topic. As far as I know, Max Yuryev knows his way around computers as I’ve seen his past videos. Maybe you can post your concerns on the 2019 Mac Pro upgrading at the MaxTech YouTube channel.

 

[Passingby]

Like, since they have exactly the same system, have we ever heard in 2 years about iMac Pro boot drives failing?

Yeah I just googled and there are several reports on the iMac Pro sub and USB fails too.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Thanks for your answer. You're right, it does not seem to work due different core stepping (Unless Apple explicitly supports it). I'll wait until someone tries to use it.



Does that mean they used a Xeon Silver 4214 which has different core stepping L1 (SRFDG) than Xeons Apple ships (H0)? cc @Snow Tiger

If that report from the British guy is correct , then MP7,1 has more processor support than we could hope for this early in the game . I still would like to see a screen grab . It's frustrating how there are unsubstantiated claims of upgrades and installs . And I also would like to know if his Mac survives a NVRAM reset . I probably could have kept my upgraded Mac running for quite some time , but I was sure doing the PRAM thing would have improved performance . Instead , it lost its compatibility with the silicon . But if these upgrades don't survive a NVRAM reset , then they are of limited value since it's only a matter of time before it becomes a recommended procedure .

 

[ssgbryan]

I just li

If that were true, you wouldn't still be on this forum with your "but actually!" posts.

I've been here about 15 years, so letting go is slow - If it helps any, I post a lot less than I used to.

 

[pmau]

Help, there’s a wasted paid-for 256GB for-maintenance-and-firmware-upgrade SSD in my 50k$ workstation...so unfair, I’m sending it back...

... I don't think that was the point of @Passingby
It's the lack of transparency regarding this and future upgrades.
I know Apple has some GPU options listed, but no one knows when and how they will screw with that.

The frustration comes from from the Trashcan experience.

They designed a nice case, granted.
Then they put in overpriced hardware, that will be superseeded in 2021/22 for sure.

I type on a MacPro 3,1 from 2008. I no longer own a MacBook since my 2012 MBP died.
I have no intention to feed Apple, except for an iPhone every two years.
This does not mean I should not follow Apple and this forum.

I have been buying Apple from hardware 2006 to 2014 extensively.
Negativity is not a good thing in forums, I agree.
But sometimes it's just too disappointing not to comment.
My apologies.

PS: @Passingby I administered two SGI Onyx in the mid 90's.
When UltraSparc was still a real thing as well.

 

[zhpenn]

If that report from the British guy is correct , then MP7,1 has more processor support than we could hope for this early in the game . I still would like to see a screen grab . It's frustrating how there are unsubstantiated claims of upgrades and installs . And I also would like to know if his Mac survives a NVRAM reset . I probably could have kept my upgraded Mac running for quite some time , but I was sure doing the PRAM thing would have improved performance . Instead , it lost its compatibility with the silicon . But if these upgrades don't survive a NVRAM reset , then they are of limited value since it's only a matter of time before it becomes a recommended procedure .

did you sell your original CPU? why not just replace it back and see?

 

[Passingby]

I'm 75% certain passerby is just an alt of sggbryan. They sound the exact same, beating the same tired PCIE and Threadripper drums.

Passingby not passerby. There's already

... I don't think that was the point of @Passingby
It's the lack of transparency regarding this and future upgrades.
I know Apple has some GPU options listed, but no one knows when and how they will screw with that.

The frustration comes from from the Trashcan experience.

They designed a nice case, granted.
Then they put in overpriced hardware, that will be superseeded in 2021/22 for sure.

I type on a MacPro 3,1 from 2008. I no longer own a MacBook since my 2012 MBP died.
I have no intention to feed Apple, except for an iPhone every two years.
This does not mean I should not follow Apple and this forum.

I have been buying Apple from hardware 2006 to 2014 extensively.
Negativity is not a good thing in forums, I agree.
But sometimes it's just too disappointing not to comment.
My apologies.

PS: @Passingby I administered two SGI Onyx in the mid 90's.
When UltraSparc was still a real thing as well.

True words spoken.

Apple chose the wrong socket for this 7,1. Should have gone with LGA-2066 and announced the CPU specs when the system went on sale. This way they would have been shipping fresh Cascade Lake Xeons a month after their debut.

In Activity Monitor app there should be one click overclocking and 'Enable XMP' options. This way the Intel supported overclock options are supported by Macs exactly like on PCs. No performance sacrificed.

And two standard m.2 slots on the motherboard. Proprietary storage format doesn't win enough buyers over. The whole 'We are special we are prestige' thing isn't important for workstations. Keep that for wearables.

But I just don't get Apple. They reward the dictatorship China with fat contracts and get screwed over by China's piracy industry every single day. Then Apple turns around and dumps massive costs on Apple's most ardent faithful hardworking users.

 

[DoofenshmirtzEI]

Apple chose the wrong socket for this 7,1. Should have gone with LGA-2066 and announced the CPU specs when the system went on sale. This way they would have been shipping fresh Cascade Lake Xeons a month after their debut.

What fresh Cascade Lake Xeons? The W-2200's that were announced in October? That have only 48 PCI lanes max, and max 1TB of memory?

 

[Passingby]

What fresh Cascade Lake Xeons? The W-2200's that were announced in October? That have only 48 PCI lanes max, and max 1TB of memory?

Very few users will consume 48 PCI lanes except for bragging they have these lanes. But users will benefit immediately from higher clock speeds across the board. Support can be up to 2TB if the motherboard firmware supports it.

ASRock X299 Motherboards To Feature Up To 2 TB RDIMM DDR4 Memory Support in Upcoming BIOS

Nick Shih, a well-known overclocker has done an amazing feat by getting 1 TB of RAM in the ASRock X299 Taichi CLX motherboard.

wccftech.com

We need to be realistic though. If you can load up 1TB+ of data into memory then any system you have today in 2019-2020 will struggle with that much data. It's one thing to brag about how much memory your system can be installed with and it's another thing to see how applications, CPU and GPU can handle that much data.

 

[giggles]

So interesting and technically sound..almost too technical guys, I can barely follow...

 

[DoofenshmirtzEI]

Very few users will consume 48 PCI lanes except for bragging they have these lanes. But users will benefit immediately from higher clock speeds across the board. Support can be up to 2TB if the motherboard firmware supports it.

ASRock X299 Motherboards To Feature Up To 2 TB RDIMM DDR4 Memory Support in Upcoming BIOS

Nick Shih, a well-known overclocker has done an amazing feat by getting 1 TB of RAM in the ASRock X299 Taichi CLX motherboard.

wccftech.com

We need to be realistic though. If you can load up 1TB+ of data into memory then any system you have today in 2019-2020 will struggle with that much data. It's one thing to brag about how much memory your system can be installed with and it's another thing to see how applications, CPU and GPU can handle that much data.

Remains to be seen if the C422 chipset can have the same tricks applied.

It's pretty jaw-dropping that someone would suggest a CPU path that supports fewer cores, fewer PCI lanes, less memory is the superior choice because... overclocking?

 

[Passingby]

Remains to be seen if the C422 chipset can have the same tricks applied.

It's pretty jaw-dropping that someone would suggest a CPU path that supports fewer cores, fewer PCI lanes, less memory is the superior choice because... overclocking?

Not jaw dropping at all. The majority of the purchases probably over 90% will be the 8 and 12 core models which would benefit from the faster clocks of Cascade Lake from Day One.

The Cascade Lake overclocking is Intel supported as is XMP. This is used by PC Workstations by CG and video professionals all over the world who are the bulk of the users in this sector. If you don't want it you're not taking full advantage of the silicon. You fall behind the competition.

I manage up to 800 machines including servers and in the workstation departments nobody asked for 1TB RAM because they aren't using it and if they could the machine would be bogged down and saturated. There's no app, processor or GPU available today that can handle that much data efficiently, especially if you try to load that into memory over a network.

If you insist that the priority should be PCIE lanes and cores then we circle back to Threadripper being the best option. So either way the CPU and socket choice of the 7,1 is worse. It's slower than the Cascade Lake or it has less core than the Threadripper.

 

[giggles]

A person managing 800 machines writes stuff like “more than 48 pcie lanes it’s just for bragging rights”?
Hard to believe.
Or fails to understand how far in the past this kind of machines are finalized and freezed in some fundamental regards.
Or to understand switching to AMD it’s not like taking a walk.
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And two standard m.2 slots on the motherboard. Proprietary storage format doesn't win enough buyers over. The whole 'We are special we are prestige' thing isn't important for workstations. Keep that for wearables.

Completely missing the security implications of Apple’s storage system. A system regarded as a godsend in security circles as explained in recent Blackhat conferences.
And the MacPro offers alternatives anyway for people wanting to skip all of this, so this is all moot.
Your mindset feels more home-PC-builder than pro market.
Sorry but signing up on the week of macpro-troll-a-palooza by triggered “Linus fans” doesn’t exactly lend to credibility.

 

[Passingby]

A person managing 800 machines write stuff like “more than 48 pcie lanes it’s just for bragging rights”?
Hard to believe.
Or fails to understand how far in the past this kind of machines are finalized and freezed in some fundamental regards.
Or to understand switching to AMD it’s not like taking a walk.
[automerge]1577094657[/automerge]


Completely missing the security implications of Apple’s storage system. A system regarded as a godsend in security circles as explained in recent Blackhat conferences.
And the MacPro offers alternatives anyway for people wanting to skip all of this, so this is all moot.
Your mindset feels more home-PC-builder than pro market.
Sorry but signing up the week of macpro-troll-a-palooza by triggered “Linus fans” doesn’t exactly lends to credibility.

Your post is just an attempt to deflect and disrespect. You provided little rational discourse in your reply.

''Completely missing the security implications of Apple’s storage system. A system regarded as a godsend in security circles as explained in recent Blackhat conferences.''

God knows what you want to use this Mac Pro for. Secure your network, enable FileVault, block bad sites, keep bad players and bad apps off the network. We don't see all those millions of video editors and CG artists out there on PCs who are just dying for a T2 chip and proprietary SSD. Nobody is asking for that because the IT guys are doing their job and so should you.

I don't see any scientists among you and from what I can gather most of you are doing video and a few of you say CG but have moved to Windows+Threadripper.

If you know what's what in video then you know very users will utilise 48 PCIE lanes. Most video editing computers will have one awesome graphics card like a Quadro/Titan RTX, which unfortunately doesn't exist on the new Mac. If two graphics cards are used then you can configure both PCIE slots to run on 8 lanes with no performance penalty for editing or rendering.

That frees up 16 lanes for other uses such as capture and storage. But many editors pull their footage off a network anyway. They've got someone to pull all the footage and manage it for them. We functioned like this with the Mac Pro 6,1 for 4 years. It looks like we will migrate those Macs to PCs after May when we make our new purchases. The PCs are so much faster they will pay for themselves and increase company profit.

CG guys use up even less lanes than video editors. One or two maxed out Nvidia GPU and one high clocked CPU is all they need. The RTX GPU provides very quick real time feedback either with CUDA or Eevee/Optix, which sadly doesn't exist on macOS now. A render farm looks after final output if need be.

You do have an issue with the Mac Pro in that if you want extra ports you have no choice but to install more cards and that will take up more lanes. I'll give you 1+ point for that one.

 

[giggles]

You realize how little sense you make?
Conceiving a 6k-60k$ platform from the get-go with the prospect of limiting GPUs to 8x?
Also you do realize there’s already some advanced pcie lanes switching going on and your way of counting lanes isn’t appropriate anyway?
Faster-than-fast storage, 2-4 GPUs for GPU-computing (ever heard about CoreML on macOS? and that’s just one example), specialty cards, faster-than-fast external I/O (up to 12 tb3 ports), etc. “Make pcie lanes fewer again” MPLFA, you’re getting elected for sure with such fine ideas..

 

[shuto]

You realize how little sense you make?
Conceiving a 6k-60k$ platform from the get-go with the prospect of limiting GPUs to 8x?

I want the Mac Pro to be as great as you. But the VegaII Duo is plugged into a x16 slot, so aren’t those two GPUs running at x8? I guess you are saying a pci switch would help with this, but surely this applies to a 48 pci lanes system also. Really can’t wait to see Octane or Redshift benchmarks running on metal to see how they compare with nvidia cards.

 

[giggles]

I want the Mac Pro to be as great as you. But the VegaII Duo is plugged into a x16 slot, so aren’t those two GPUs running at x8? I guess you are saying a pci switch would help with this, but surely this applies to a 48 pci lanes system also. Really can’t wait to see Octane or Redshift benchmarks running on metal to see how they compare with nvidia cards.

The return of Duo cards was saluted with enthusiasm, evidently it’s worth it even if they share a 16x slot, imagine if they had to share a 8x limited slot. This doesn’t mean even single card should be limited to 8x by design.