iPad Pro Craig and Joz discussing iPad on The Talk Show

[prospervic]

I respect your sincerity and decency. My point is that dismissing the iPad as simply a big iPhone disregards the fundamental idea of the iPad as a device that is optimized along the entire stack for lean-back / contemplative work and the considerable attention that has gone into crafting the functionality and UX to align with that design intent. This orientation, focus, optimization and experience is unique to the iPad. A substantial component of my daily work falls into the contemplative (formulating and communicating ideas, system and visual designs, strategies, plans, processes, analytic models, proofs of concepts, etc.) vs production area. As a result. I experience and deeply appreciate the benefits of this unique iPad capability every single day — so I’m perhaps over-sensitive to seeing it unappreciated.

I admit that references to the iPad as “just a big iPhone”is a trigger for me — not because I’m offended; but because I do believe it diminishes the iPad and is disrespectful of the considerable life energy that Apple has poured into crafting this absolutely unique computing appliance. I understand that this may be a subtle property that may be easily missed by well-meaning individuals, so I apologize if my comment offended you in any way and hope you understand what motivated the comment. 🙏🏽

Don’t let the trolls get to you. Their main purpose is to provoke (which they have succeeded in this case) and to come across as oh-so-clever, which gives them a false sense of superiority or more accurately, worthiness which is otherwise lacking in their self image.

 

[Yebubbleman]

so I’m perhaps over-sensitive to seeing it unappreciated.

Just a tad.

I admit that references to the iPad as “just a big iPhone” is a trigger for me — not because I’m offended; but because I do believe it diminishes the iPad and is disrespectful of the considerable life energy that Apple has poured into crafting this absolutely unique computing appliance. I understand that this may be a subtle property that may be easily missed by well-meaning individuals, so I apologize if my comment offended you in any way and hope you understand what motivated it. 🙏🏽

I'm not entirely sure why someone else's appraisal should affect your own, let alone trigger you in this fashion. That's a bit much, honestly.

The iPad is Apple's most subjective device. I do not mind that the iPad is a big iPhone. This is why I own an iPad mini. Because the bigger screen while it still being pocket-able and highly portable. I do not need it to be anything more and for what it is, it is completely utilitarian.

I do not feel the same about it at larger sizes. I do not feel it justifies itself at larger sizes, largely due to iPadOS's stubborn limitations and I do believe that's a problem. (And if you read every review of the M4 iPad Pro, you'll find that I'm far from alone in that.)

Why my opinion should offend or trigger you when this device literally has different people using it in different ways with night and day different preferences is something you ought to explore.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Don’t let the trolls get to you. Their main purpose is to provoke (which they have succeeded in this case) and to come across as oh-so-clever, which gives them a false sense of superiority or more accurately, worthiness which is otherwise lacking in their self image.

Considering we're talking about the state of iPadOS and I'm presenting an opinion that is arguably a popular one, I fail to see how I'm serving to be provocative to any but the most staunch of iPad defenders. To which I say, I'm sorry I'm not a 100% loyal Apple zealot. I prefer to evaluate my technology objectively.

 

[heretiq]

Just a tad.



I'm not entirely sure why someone else's appraisal should affect your own, let alone trigger you in this fashion. That's a bit much, honestly.

The iPad is Apple's most subjective device. I do not mind that the iPad is a big iPhone. This is why I own an iPad mini. Because the bigger screen while it still being pocket-able and highly portable. I do not need it to be anything more and for what it is, it is completely utilitarian.

I do not feel the same about it at larger sizes. I do not feel it justifies itself at larger sizes, largely due to iPadOS's stubborn limitations and I do believe that's a problem. (And if you read every review of the M4 iPad Pro, you'll find that I'm far from alone in that.)

Why my opinion should offend or trigger you when this device literally has different people using it in different ways with night and day different preferences is something you ought to explore.

The level of negativity and trolling in MR forums is on the rise. I find that problematic. I already know why excessive and casual negativity concerns and sometimes triggers me — it’s because it’s a sign of an unhealthy environment. What I ought to explore is whether I want to subject myself to such an environment.

 

[Jackbequickly]

I know I am getting old when I do not know who Craig and Joz is and don’t care.

 

[Ludatyk]

The level of negativity and trolling in MR forums is on the rise. I find that problematic. I already know why excessive and casual negativity concerns and sometimes triggers me — it’s because it’s a sign of an unhealthy environment. What I ought to explore is whether I want to subject myself to such an environment.

Yeah, that’s why I’m kind of taking a step back… avoiding the negativity. Responding to those who are in need of solutions to their iPad workflow.

Because calling an iPad… a big iPhone, comes off as trolling imo. That has been the go-to response for critics ever since the iPad launched in 2010. All the improvements Apple have made thus far is oblivious to them, quite simply… it‘s never enough.

But then it’s “we are not asking for macOS,” but if you are comparing macOS feature set to iPadOS… then obviously that’s what you are asking for. But it is what it is.

 

[Digitalguy]

Yeah, that’s why I’m kind of taking a step back… avoiding the negativity. Responding to those who are in need of solutions to their iPad workflow.

Because calling an iPad… a big iPhone, comes off as trolling imo. That has been the go-to response for critics ever since the iPad launched in 2010. All the improvements Apple have made thus far is oblivious to them, quite simply… it‘s never enough.

But then it’s “we are not asking for macOS,” but if you are comparing macOS feature set to iPadOS… then obviously that’s what you are asking for. But it is what it is.

I think people who love the iPad simply want to do as much as possible on it. So yes if some features are useful and are in MacOS or Windows, there is nothing wrong with wanting them on iPad. The point is being specific, not saying the iPad is a big phone (which is far from it), but saying what should be improved.
Apple has made many improvements but has been quite slow. I wish they had done much more...
For instance it's obvious that Safari needs improvement, it has a reload threashold that is way too low, even with 16GB iPads, let alone the fact that some pages don't work like in other desktop browsers.
The file apps needs improvements too, it needs to better integrade third party cloud services (and personally I want the OS to be more file centric). Stage manager has been improved a lot but has still several bugs and is not flexible enough.
There are all very specific issues. It's important to distinguish this from the trolls.
Trolls are toxic but so are people who get offended as soon as you say anything (they percieve as) negative about the iPad, because they hinder any kind of constructive dialogue.

 

[heretiq]

Yeah, that’s why I’m kind of taking a step back… avoiding the negativity. Responding to those who are in need of solutions to their iPad workflow.

Because calling an iPad… a big iPhone, comes off as trolling imo. That has been the go-to response for critics ever since the iPad launched in 2010. All the improvements Apple have made thus far is oblivious to them, quite simply… it‘s never enough.

But then it’s “we are not asking for macOS,” but if you are comparing macOS feature set to iPadOS… then obviously that’s what you are asking for. But it is what it is.

Yep. Exactly. The blindness and/or indifference to the spirit of the iPad, iPadOS improvements and the effort to create them is telling. Thank you. You’ve reinforced my earlier comment that created this conversation branch:

‘iPadOS is wasted on the [fill in the blank].’

 

[Ludatyk]

I think people who love the iPad simply want to do as much as possible on it. So yes if some features are useful and are in MacOS or Windows, there is nothing wrong with wanting them on iPad. The point is being specific, not saying the iPad is a big phone (which is far from it), but saying what should be improved.

Asking for iPadOS improvements is par for the course, but be specific on what areas… the adding “macOS onto an iPad” idea is ridiculous.

Apple has made many improvements but has been quite slow. I wish they had done much more...
For instance it's obvious that Safari needs improvement, it has a reload threashold that is way too low, even with 16GB iPads, let alone the fact that some pages don't work like in other desktop browsers.

What web pages don’t work like other desktop browser? Haven’t came across one.. do you compare it to Safari on macOS?

The file apps needs improvements too, it needs to better integrade third party cloud services (and personally I want the OS to be more file centric). Stage manager has been improved a lot but has still several bugs and is not flexible enough.

But what improvements do you want in File app and what areas do you want better integration for 3rd party cloud services… I have Google Drive, OneDrive and DropBox tied into the Files app. But I actually prefer going to those apps to manage files…

And I’m aware that Stage Manager needs improvements.. haven’t ran across any bugs recently. Now, there is some bugs when it comes to external display support… but I think that’s more due to devs not optimizing for it.

 

[heretiq]

I think people who love the iPad simply want to do as much as possible on it. So yes if some features are useful and are in MacOS or Windows, there is nothing wrong with wanting them on iPad. The point is being specific, not saying the iPad is a big phone (which is far from it), but saying what should be improved.
Apple has made many improvements but has been quite slow. I wish they had done much more...
For instance it's obvious that Safari needs improvement, it has a reload threashold that is way too low, even with 16GB iPads, let alone the fact that some pages don't work like in other desktop browsers.
The file apps needs improvements too, it needs to better integrade third party cloud services (and personally I want the OS to be more file centric). Stage manager has been improved a lot but has still several bugs and is not flexible enough.
There are all very specific issues. It's important to distinguish this from the trolls.
Trolls are toxic but so are people who get offended as soon as you say anything (they percieve as) negative about the iPad, because they hinder any kind of constructive dialogue.

I agree with your sentiment and much of your perspective, but believe that additions to iPadOS should be guided principally by the device‘s design intent — not strictly utility. That means that certain features get implemented “the iPad way” and others maybe not at all because they might muddle the distinction between devices. I know that this might be a non-starter for those who want the iPad to be a MacBook replacement; but that is the issue — the best replacement for a MacBook is a better MacBook, not an iPad which is a tablet.

Safari on Mac, iPhone and iPad has been near perfect for me — so I see no “obvious” need for improvement; but I appreciate that other’s experience is different. I occasionally encounter reload issues and the occasional site that does not play well with Safari, but find that these are largely sites that break due to privacy restrictions — and not other “browser” compatibility issues. I’m a tech professional and really curious what I’m doing differently that causes such wildly different experience with Safari.

The Files app likewise has not let me down since the ability to handle compressed files was added. Perhaps it’s because I’ve bought into iCloud and iCloud Documents and don’t need to worry about multi-platform interoperability. By the way Files App already supports integration of third-party cloud storage. See this video that shows how to add Google Drive and DropBox to Files App: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/iOS-17-swiftui-DMDHbt0oQuyiXtDsuTjHig

And Stage Manager works great for me I think because my work on the iPad is usually focused on one or two documents at a time so multi-tasking features are not essential.

In any case this is not a dismissal of your comments — as they are all reasonable, but I’m genuinely interested in why our experiences are so different.

 

[Digitalguy]

Asking for iPadOS improvements is par for the course, but be specific on what areas… the adding “macOS onto an iPad” idea is ridiculous.

see my post here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/work-fails-on-ipad-a-list.2429617/post-33223319

What web pages don’t work like other desktop browser? Haven’t came across one.. do you compare it to Safari on macOS?

No, I compared iPad safari to Chrome, Brave and Firefox on Windows, because that's what I use outside of iPads.
It's a newspaper I subscribe to (non in English) and they have an app too, but you cannot copy and paste from the app, you can from the desktop but it's very restrictive coding so iPad safari cannot copy or even scroll... probably for copyright reasons (but any desktop browser can)

But what improvements do you want in File app and what areas do you want better integration for 3rd party cloud services… I have Google Drive, OneDrive and DropBox tied into the Files app. But I actually prefer going to those apps to manage files…

I have Dropbox Plus and I can sync folders in the app, but they don't sync in the file app, I have to download every single file. I don't prefer to use the app, because I hate how Drobox obliges me to sort by name to find folders, then my date to find the latest files etc.

And I’m aware that Stage Manager needs improvements.. haven’t ran across any bugs recently. Now, there is some bugs when it comes to external display support… but I think that’s more due to devs not optimizing for it.

I agree, it's not just iPadOS

 

[Digitalguy]

I agree with your sentiment and much of your perspective, but believe that addutions to iPadOS should be guided principally by the device‘s design intent — not strictly utility. That means that certain features get implemented “the iPad way” and others maybe not at all because they might muddle the distinction between devices. I know that this might be a non-starter for those who want the iPad to be a MacBook replacement; but that is the issue — the best replacement for a MacBook is a better MacBook, not an iPad which is a tablet.

This is something I tend to disagree with. I want to do as much as possible on the iPad. iPad has no "intent" set in stone. iPad is what both Apple and users decide it to be. I know it will never totally replace a laptop, but I want to do as much as I can as I love the iPad and its flexibility. What Jobs said in 2010 is old stuff for a very different device compared to current capabilities of the iPad pro. And by the way I am not interested in MacBooks because I use Windows as my main work platform

Safari on Mac, iPhone and iPad has been near perfect for me — so I see no “obvious” need for improvement; but I appreciate that other’s experience is different. I occasionally encounter reload issues and the occasional site that does not play well with Safari, but find that these are largely sites that break due to privacy restrictions — and not other “browser” compatibility issues. I’m a tech professional and really curious what I’m doing differently that causes such wildly different experience with Safari.

See my post above about Safari and other browsers. Indeed it's for privacy and copyright reasons.

The Files app likewise has not let me down since the ability to handle compressed files was added. Perhaps it’s because I’ve bought into iCloud and iCloud Documents and don’t need to worry about multi-platform interoperability. By the way Files App already supports integration of third-party cloud storage. See this video that shows how to add Google Drive and DropBox to Files App: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/iOS-17-swiftui-DMDHbt0oQuyiXtDsuTjHig

I'll have a look (I need to go to bed now, it's past 1am), but see my post above about File App and Dropbox

And Stage Manager works great for me I think because my work on the iPad is usually focused on one or two documents at a time so multi-tasking features are not essential.

I don't split screen either, but Stage Manager is not flexible enough for me, it's still way better than it was without it

In any case this is not a dismissal of your comments — as they are all reasonable, but I’m genuinely interested in why our experiences are so different.

Again I appreciate the costructive feedback. My point is that I want to do more with the iPad because I like it and it's not just touch, as almost all my laptops have touch, pen and some have even cellular, it's because nothing is as flexible and nice to use as the iPad in my opinion. I don't want to replace my laptop completely and even less my desktop, but I want to replace it for some use cases and in some situations

 

[Ludatyk]

No, I compared iPad safari to Chrome, Brave and Firefox on Windows, because that's what I use outside of iPads.
It's a newspaper I subscribe to (non in English) and they have an app too, but you cannot copy and paste from the app, you can from the desktop but it's very restrictive coding so iPad safari cannot copy or even scroll... probably for copyright reasons (but any desktop browser can)

The reason why I mention Safari on macOS because if I’m not mistaken.. they both share the same web engine. So, the iPad likely not be the culprit.

I have Dropbox Plus and I can sync folders in the app, but they don't sync in the file app, I have to download every single file. I don't prefer to use the app, because I hate how Drobox obliges me to sort by name to find folders, then my date to find the latest files etc.

But you don’t necessarily have to download every single file… just export it to the app you want to work in, right? You can work within Dropbox without having to use the Files app.

And you can sort by date, name and kind within the Dropbox… same way in Files app. Unless, you like the fact file app has tags. But nevertheless… you can go to a different file manager app, you are not obligated to use files app. I only use the files app to move files among apps (FileBrowser is my go-to app).

GoodReader Pro Pack ® Main Features Review.

GoodReader User Manual: Pro Pack ® Main Features

www.goodreader.com

Looking through the pro pack features… it has Auto Sync features, not sure if it might work for you. But it has a 7 day trial.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Because calling an iPad… a big iPhone, comes off as trolling imo.

First off, the criticism is directed at the operating systems, not the hardware. This is an important distinction. And, it's completely true. iPadOS doesn't do much that iOS doesn't also do. The control you have isn't much different. So, the comparison has a giant nugget of truth to it.

Second off, for devices solely geared toward consumption first and foremost (e.g. iPad mini, standard iPad), THAT ISN'T A BAD THING! It's on devices that are presented as being able to supplant your laptop that it's problematic (and that's because, in very basic ways, it falls short of being able to do so).

Third off, there are several opinions on these forums. The ones that disagree with yours aren't trolling.

That has been the go-to response for critics ever since the iPad launched in 2010. All the improvements Apple have made thus far is oblivious to them, quite simply… it‘s never enough.

Apple has made SOME strides. But, not enough to replace my 13-inch and 14-inch MacBooks. Again, I'm not ragging on ALL iPads. But the iPad was and still is best at consumption. A computer is still better for everything else that doesn't expressly involve an Apple Pencil and Apple is both equipping iPad Airs and iPad Pros with the same stuff that's in their Macs and charging around the cost of their Macs for the privilege. Explain to me why/how a 13-inch iPad Air or 13-inch iPad Pro is superior to a 13-inch MacBook Air or a 13/14-inch MacBook Pro? Personally, the 13-inch iPad Air was everything I wanted in a large iPad until I realized that my MacBook Pro does everything said iPad does, but better and more of it. To each their own, but you can't deny that for me to even be able to make that comparison, it's not ideal.

But then it’s “we are not asking for macOS,” but if you are comparing macOS feature set to iPadOS… then obviously that’s what you are asking for. But it is what it is.

That's a WILDLY black-and-white perspective.

You can create a touch-first operating system compatible with the same apps that has things like

- Multi-user support (not limited to MDM and Apple School/Business Manager implementations)
- A better file system and files app
- A Terminal app
- A Disk Utility (for formatting the external disks I'm supposedly able to attach to an iPad)
- The ability to import and listen to MP3 files without syncing the iPad like it's a 3rd Generation iPod from 2003
- Xcode support
- I could seriously add to this list forever

Making the iPad pleasant to use as a Mac replacement doesn't require turning it into a Mac or shoehorning macOS onto it. As it stands now, it's a poor Mac replacement. I'm upgrading the ladyfriend's tech setup. A 10th Generation iPad will suit her 85% of the time. The other 15% will absolutely require a PC or Mac and for nothing more intensive than a proper file browser and file system. And she's not even remotely techie.

I agree with your sentiment and much of your perspective, but believe that addutions to iPadOS should be guided principally by the device‘s design intent — not strictly utility.

I really don't know where you get the idea that giving iPadOS usability advancements will sacrifice the iPad's ability to still be that in-between device Steve Jobs presented in 2010. Things change and advance. For better or worse, the iPad's design intent has changed drastically. It now has support for a dedicated pencil and keyboard/trackpad attachments and is marketed at being a computer replacement. The goal posts have changed and the hardware has changed along with it. Why not the software too?

That means that certain features get implemented “the iPad way” and others maybe not at all because they might muddle the distinction between devices.

I'm trying REALLY hard to understand your perspective here. But it sounds like you're advocating for the iPad to have its software growth stunted so that the MacBook Air isn't cannibalized as a result. May the best product win for the task. That's how these things have ALWAYS been. I do not understand what benefit it serves to anyone other than an Apple stockholder for someone who would otherwise be fine with one device (be it an iPad or Mac) to have to wield two just because they're not to overlap in any way.

I know that this might be a non-starter for those who want the iPad to be a MacBook replacement; but that is the issue — the best replacement for a MacBook is a better MacBook, not an iPad which is a tablet.

I don't think people necessarily want an iPad to be a MacBook replacement. But, that's how Apple is both marketing and pricing the larger iPads. And it's a pretty hard sell for someone who just spent a bunch of money on a MacBook to now also buy a tablet that is marketed at replacing said MacBook.

For those with simple needs, there's no reason why an iPad Air or iPad Pro couldn't be a MacBook replacement. Except for the fact that there are arbitrary software limitations that prevent REALLY BASIC COMPUTING TASKS from comfortably getting done on it.

Safari on Mac, iPhone and iPad has been near perfect for me

I think you need to recognize the text in bold here. There are lots of opinions out there. Yours is not the only one.

The Files app likewise has not let me down since the ability to handle compressed files was added. Perhaps it’s because I’ve bought into iCloud and iCloud Documents and don’t need to worry about multi-platform interoperability.

That's exactly it. Apple caters to those that dive all-in and is abusive to those that aren't.

And Stage Manager works great for me I think because my work on the iPad is usually focused on one or two documents at a time so multi-tasking features are not essential.

For your use cases, that seems to work well! For several others, it does not. Hence the complaining.

In any case this is not a dismissal of your comments — as they are all reasonable, but I’m genuinely interested in why our experiences are so different.

Because people are different, their preferences are different and not everyone is like you!

From one tech professional to another, this is about the most important thing you can possibly bear in mind when it comes to helping others out with tech solutions.

 

[prospervic]

Considering we're talking about the state of iPadOS and I'm presenting an opinion that is arguably a popular one, I fail to see how I'm serving to be provocative to any but the most staunch of iPad defenders. To which I say, I'm sorry I'm not a 100% loyal Apple zealot. I prefer to evaluate my technology objectively.

The statement "iPad is just a big iPhone," being patently and demonstrably untrue, serves only to disparage the product and to provoke its users.

 

[Ludatyk]

First off, the criticism is directed at the operating systems, not the hardware. This is an important distinction. And, it's completely true. iPadOS doesn't do much that iOS doesn't also do. The control you have isn't much different. So, the comparison has a giant nugget of truth to it.

This is what I mean by trolling. No, it‘s not completely true! So, let me get this straight… Apple went so far as branching the iPad off from iOS to iPadOS for you to call it big iPhone… um okay. Well, they should have kept it as iOS, that would have served you better lol.

And it is the hardware… because you are willing to tell your ladyfriend to buy the base iPad. You clearly don’t care for the iPad Pro and that’s fine, the device isn’t meant for you.

Explain to me why/how a 13-inch iPad Air or 13-inch iPad Pro is superior to a 13-inch MacBook Air or a 13/14-inch MacBook Pro? Personally, the 13-inch iPad Air was everything I wanted in a large iPad until I realized that my MacBook Pro does everything said iPad does, but better and more of it. To each their own, but you can't deny that for me to even be able to make that comparison, it's not ideal.

First off, the problem you and Mac folks keep doing… is comparing the iPad Pro to the MacBook. They are TWO different devices… WHERE have you seen in Apple ads that they compare the MacBook to the iPad Pro?

If YOU rather have a MacBook Air or MBP over a iPA or iPP... then so be it, stop trying to make it out to be an either or decision. It’s up to the individual, not you.

Making the iPad pleasant to use as a Mac replacement doesn't require turning it into a Mac or shoehorning macOS onto it. As it stands now, it's a poor Mac replacement. I'm upgrading the ladyfriend's tech setup. A 10th Generation iPad will suit her 85% of the time. The other 15% will absolutely require a PC or Mac and for nothing more intensive than a proper file browser and file system. And she's not even remotely techie.

So, from your perspective… iPad Pro in its current form should never exist? Or even the iPad Air… Apple should strip away the mid to top tier from the lineup and only sell the base iPad according to you.. am I following you correctly?

Better yet… Apple should only sell base iPhones, base Macs, base Watches (No Stainless Steel or Ultra), base AirPods… strip away all premium offerings.

 

[heretiq]

This is something I tend to disagree with. I want to do as much as possible on the iPad. iPad has no "intent" set in stone. iPad is what both Apple and users decide it to be. I know it will never totally replace a laptop, but I want to do as much as I can as I love the iPad and its flexibility. What Jobs said in 2010 is old stuff for a very different device compared to current capabilities of the iPad pro.
…
Again I appreciate the costructive feedback. My point is that I want to do more with the iPad because I like it and it's not just touch, as almost all my laptops have touch, pen and some have even cellular, it's because nothing is as flexible and nice to use as the iPad in my opinion. I don't want to replace my laptop completely and even less my desktop, but I want to replace it for some use cases and in some situations

In the spirit of constructive conversation, this is the problem.

Any professionally designed product and system is grounded in design intent. We would not expect a building designed with a foundation to support a maximum of 4 stories to support a new owner’s desire for it to become a skyscraper. We would advise them that their desire is inadvisable (or laughable if we were their friend).

So, why would we casually make an exception for the iPad when both are designed in accordance with professional design practices — which place strict boundaries on product capabilities based on design intent?? Apple are professional architects, designers and engineers and no professional would claim a designed system as open-ended and malleable to arbitrary operation outside its design intent.

The iPad is no different. The design intent remains exactly what was demonstrated by Steve Jobs. To quote Steve:

“Everyone uses laptops and smartphones. And the question has arisen lately: Is there room for a third category of device in the middle? Something between a laptop and a smartphone.”

Steve then defines a set of example tasks that this third category of device must be better at than a smartphone and a laptop. They included: Browsing, Email, Photos, Videos, Music, Games and eBooks. The common thread of these tasks is the most comfortable physical posture of a person while performing them: ‘leaning back.’

Steve says all of this while standing. After describing the iPad, Steve deliberately sits down and leans back on a sofa to demonstrate these use cases on the iPad. This was the first and one of a very few Apple products that were demoed while sitting.

Those who think this was not intentional or that this is no longer relevant really are missing the most important aspect of the iPad. It is a device that is optimized from silicon to software for a particular psychological orientation: Contemplative, “lean-back” tasks.

Those who think that Apple has moved on from this original design intent really do not understand Apple’s principled design ethos and are not paying attention to what they are telling us verbally or implicitly through the changes to the iPad that they introduce .. or reject.

These messages reinforce why the iPad was created and its reason to exists. It is not to be a smartphone or a laptop. It is to be that third category of device that’s better that the smartphone or laptop at performing “lean-back” tasks. Embrace this design intent and be happy, substitute your own and be disappointed or downright miserable. Simple.

Thanks for being open to constructive conversation. 🙏🏽

 

[Digitalguy]

In the spirit of constructive conversation, this is the problem.

Any professionally designed product and system is grounded in design intent. We would not expect a building designed with a foundation to support a maximum of 4 stories to support a new owner’s desire for it to become a skyscraper. We would advise them that their desire is inadvisable (or laughable if we were their friend).

So, why would we casually make an exception for the iPad when both are designed in accordance with professional design practices — which place strict boundaries on product capabilities based on design intent?? Apple are professional architects, designers and engineers and no professional would claim a designed system as open-ended and malleable to arbitrary operation outside its design intent.

The iPad is no different. The design intent remains exactly what was demonstrated by Steve Jobs. To quote Steve:

“Everyone uses laptops and smartphones. And the question has arisen lately: Is there room for a third category of device in the middle? Something between a laptop and a smartphone.”

Steve then defines a set of example tasks that this third category of device must be better at than a smartphone and a laptop. They included: Browsing, Email, Photos, Videos, Music, Games and eBooks. The common thread of these tasks is the most comfortable physical posture of a person while performing them: ‘leaning back.’

Steve says all of this while standing. After describing the iPad, Steve deliberately sits down and leans back on a sofa to demonstrate these use cases on the iPad. This was the first and one of a very few Apple products that were demoed while sitting.

Those who think this was not intentional or that this is no longer relevant really are missing the most important aspect of the iPad. It is a device that is optimized from silicon to software for a particular psychological orientation: Contemplative, “lean-back” tasks.

Those who think that Apple has moved on from this original design intent really do not understand Apple’s principled design ethos and are not paying attention to what they are telling us verbally or implicitly through the changes to the iPad that they introduce .. or reject.

These messages reinforce why the iPad was created and its reason to exists. It is not to be a smartphone or a laptop. It is to be that third category of device that’s better that the smartphone or laptop at performing “lean-back” tasks. Embrace this design intent and be happy, substitute your own and be disappointed or downright miserable. Simple.

Thanks for being open to constructive conversation. 🙏🏽

well, I appreciate the feedback but if the definition of the iPad pro for you is what Steeve Jobs said in 2010 (essentially a couch device) we can agree to disagree and move on.... Personally I'll happily keep using the my iPad pros as I intent and I am far from miserable...

 

[richpjr]

Jobs also said: “I want to make a tablet, and it can't have a keyboard or stylus”.

The problem with the couch design philosophy idea is that Apple has at least partially moved on from it. We now have hardware options that are more like a traditional computer with things like keyboards, mouse support, external monitors, external storage, etc. Not easily using anything other than a MKB on a couch. iPadOS has also slowly changed into the more computer like experience that have made it more like a computer and good enough to be the only computing device some people need. The problem is too much stuff is half baked, whether deliberately or the result of iPadOS being branched from a phone OS and the limitations starting on that platform (vs being designed from the ground up). Probably some of each. As has been stated before, a lot the half-baked stuff could easily be addressed without affecting the couch experience.

 

[heretiq]

well, I appreciate the feedback but if the definition of the iPad pro for you is what Steeve Jobs said in 2010 (essentially a couch device) we can agree to disagree and move on.... Personally I'll happily keep using the my iPad pros as I intent and I am far from miserable...

Accepted and respected. The couch is a metaphor for a category of tasks (i.e., “lean-back” tasks vs ‘lean-forward” tasks). This does not mean that the iPad is limited to lean-back tasks, only that it was conceived and optimized for such tasks and will naturally do those better than tasks it was not fundamentally designed and optimized for. Better is relative so some like you will be happy using it for lean-forward tasks, while some will be miserable that it doesn’t do those tasks as well as a MacBook. We can see that range from happy to contented to miserable in the comments in this thread and others, but the discontent of a few seem to overshadow the silent happy-contented majority. Ultimately, we want all iPad users to be happy, but that is only possible if the iPad is the right device for a user’s dominant use cases. The “lean-back” vs “lean-forward” dominant task test is a good indicator of iPad suitability — and attaching a keyboard does not change this.

 

[prospervic]

To quote Steve:

“Everyone uses laptops and smartphones. And the question has arisen lately: Is there room for a third category of device in the middle? Something between a laptop and a smartphone.”

Steve then defines a set of example tasks that this third category of device must be better at than a smartphone and a laptop. They included: Browsing, Email, Photos, Videos, Music, Games and eBooks. The common thread of these tasks is the most comfortable physical posture of a person while performing them: ‘leaning back.’

Steve says all of this while standing. After describing the iPad, Steve deliberately sits down and leans back on a sofa to demonstrate these use cases on the iPad. This was the first and one of a very few Apple products that were demoed while sitting.

You know what Steve Jobs did NOT say in this presentation? “You can use this instead of your Mac.” Why? Because as the CEO of a company that makes and sells Mac’s, he would certainly not say such a thing.

This idea of Apple intending iPad to replace a Macbook has spread like a mind virus despite Apple never, ever, ever, EVER, even ONCE explicitly stating this. I can already hear the contrarians saying “But in the Apple Store they display iPads sitting on Magic Keyboards.” So many assume this means Apple wants you to use iPad as a MacBook replacement, when the real reason is simpler with no hidden agenda: Apple just wants to sell you expensive-ass keyboards!

I have a 16 inch M1 MacBook Pro for what I classify as “serious” work, but there are also times when I want to “lean back” with my 12.9 iPad Pro while still doing creative tasks like writing and photo editing, along with standard work like web searches and emailing. I love that it weighs less than two pounds (using the Smart Folio —Ive gotten pretty decent at typing on the virtual keyboard), can be used in portrait orientation and I can interact with it by touching the screen, which is far more natural and intuitive than using a mouse. These cannot be done on a MacBook, but do I think this makes the Mac the inferior? Of course not! It’s just different — a wholly different device.

It’s not either/or, iPad vs Mac, it’s “both, and”. And if someone’s particular needs require/allow them to only use one of these devices, great for them!

 

[heretiq]

I think you need to recognize the text in bold here. There are lots of opinions out there. Yours is not the only one.
…
For your use cases, that seems to work well! For several others, it does not. Hence the complaining.
…
Because people are different, their preferences are different and not everyone is like you!
…
From one tech professional to another, this is about the most important thing you can possibly bear in mind when it comes to helping others out with tech solutions.

I think you need to recognize that I deliberately added “for me”, “to me”, etc. for the very reason you’re advocating. 😉

 

[heretiq]

You know what Steve Jobs did NOT say in this presentation? “You can use this instead of your Mac.” Why? Because as the CEO of a company that makes and sells Mac’s, he would certainly not say such a thing.

This idea of Apple intending iPad to replace a Macbook has spread like a mind virus despite Apple never, ever, ever, EVER, even ONCE explicitly stating this. I can already hear the contrarians saying “But in the Apple Store they display iPads sitting on Magic Keyboards.” So many assume this means Apple wants you to use iPad as a MacBook replacement, when the real reason is simpler with no hidden agenda: Apple just wants to sell you expensive-ass keyboards!

I have a 16 inch M1 MacBook Pro for what I classify as “serious” work, but there are also times when I want to “lean back” with my 12.9 iPad Pro while still doing creative tasks like writing and photo editing, along with standard work like web searches and emailing. I love that it weighs less than two pounds (using the Smart Folio —Ive gotten pretty decent at typing on the virtual keyboard), can be used in portrait orientation and I can interact with it by touching the screen, which is far more natural and intuitive than using a mouse. These cannot be done on a MacBook, but do I think this makes the Mac the inferior? Of course not! It’s just different — a wholly different device.

It’s not either/or, iPad vs Mac, it’s “both, and”. And if someone’s particular needs require/allow them to only use one of these devices, great for them!

Agree 100%. Hence the spotlight on “lean-back” (tablet / iPad) vs. “lean-forward” (MacBook / Mac) tasks. Choose the best device for the task at hand. 🙏🏽

 

[richpjr]

This idea of Apple intending iPad to replace a Macbook has spread like a mind virus despite Apple never, ever, ever, EVER, even ONCE explicitly stating this. I can already hear the contrarians saying “But in the Apple Store they display iPads sitting on Magic Keyboards.” So many assume this means Apple wants you to use iPad as a MacBook replacement, when the real reason is simpler with no hidden agenda: Apple just wants to sell you expensive-ass keyboards!

By this logic no keyboard other than Apple's MKB would work with an iPad. It would also mean Apple wants to sell us expensive-ass monitors, mice, external storage, external audio interfaces and so much more...

 

[jdb8167]

Jobs also said: “I want to make a tablet, and it can't have a keyboard or stylus”.

Any source for this? It seems unlikely that Jobs actually said anything like the above quote considering the original iPad came with an optional keyboard stand. The iPad has always supported keyboards.