Dave2D has NAILED the new iPadPro

[sracer]

Agreed. I suspect that if Apple does add some of the missing features that some people have mentioned that they need in their work flow, that some of the most vocal critics will be crowing about how magical it is.

iOS is what is holding the iPad back and most of the requested features could be added without ruining the tablet experience.

Of course. Android has had a universally accessible file system and support for mice since the beginning without any problems. The continued omission of these things is a deliberate, conscious decision by Apple not because of any technical limitations.

 

[TomOSeven]

Of course. Android has had a universally accessible file system and support for mice since the beginning without any problems. The continued omission of these things is a deliberate, conscious decision by Apple not because of any technical limitations.

But to what end?


I'd imagine at this point, Macs are the red headed step child Apple doesn't give too much of a damn about, considering the minute numbers compared to iPhones and to a lesser extent iPads.

Then again, why change?
They own the tablet game like no other. iPads are much father ahead of the competition than iPhones have in years. People don't want tablets, people want iPads.

 

[jclardy]

Yes he nailed it. I really question myself why Apple did not improve on this although nearly everybody is complaining about that in mostly all reviews? It should be so easy for them to add the basic productivity features like pointing devices, extended external display mode and file transfer. Played with a Surface Go today and although is such a lesser device compared to the iPad it steels the show when it comes to basic productivity tasks....

To me a $2000 iPad only makes sense with an OS that gives us these basic productivity features....Nobody is only comsuming media or playing around with such a device.

My thought is that they wanted to with iOS 12, but the software teams were just too far behind. They could do a dot release and add a bunch of things...but I think instead iOS 13 will have a huge iPad focus. Plus this is an upside for Apple’s bottom line - sell everyone iPad’s this year as what they are, then next year bump all models RAM to 6/8GB, add major features to the OS and sell a brand new keyboard/trackpad/battery hinge case for $300 to new and existing owners. Win/Win for Apple - existing users are happy to have the features they were hoping for, new users jump on with better hardware and apple makes $$$ from new accessory purchases from everyone.

 

[teohyc]

There's this quote about technology from John Walker, producer of The Incredibles, that was burned into my mind when I first heard it. I think it applies here.

"Technology is suppose to help you save time and money."

If you look at the 2018 iPad Pro vs 2017's model, ask yourself how much more time and money you would have saved?

 

[Aston441]

No he didn't. He is too young to know the past and lacks the vision to see the future. This guy (Steve Sinofsky of all people) gets it:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1059663467676762112.html

Interesting.

I was on the "pro-mouse" side of things until I read this. Now I'm not so sure.

Counter argument to your linked article though:

The FASTEST way we have figured out to interface human hands with a computer is mouse keyboard.

The first iPad had no keyboard or mouse option. Now Apple makes a physical keyboard. They had to acknowledge that on screen typing wasn't enough all the time.

We have to acknowledge all these years later that on screen cut/paste SUCKS and always will. We just need mouse/trackpad option. Not all the time, just for sometimes. iOS will be continue to be crippled until then.

 

[Mildredop]

So, seriously, when people say they can do their "work" on an iPad, what are they doing? I'm genuinely curious.

I bought an iPad to do simple spreadsheets to keep track of the people I've got working on various project - documents I could then email to the manager on site a day or two before the job.

As people chop and change the days they can work, I just move or copy/paste their name in the spreadsheet on my Mac - on the iPad it was a nightmare. As was keeping track of all the spreadsheets - I missed being able to organise them into folders based on job/date etc.

I would consider that to be a very simple work task and the iPad was rubbish.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

I bought an iPad to do simple spreadsheets to keep track of the people I've got working on various project - documents I could then email to the manager on site a day or two before the job.

As people chop and change the days they can work, I just move or copy/paste their name in the spreadsheet on my Mac - on the iPad it was a nightmare. As was keeping track of all the spreadsheets - I missed being able to organise them into folders based on job/date etc.

I would consider that to be a very simple work task and the iPad was rubbish.

This was my experience too while trying to work with beefy excel docs and other types of corporate docs, such as large mind maps, project blueprinting, etc. The problem was, every single time, two-fold:

• Interacting with small interface elements (excel cells, dropdowns, highlighting and copying multiple paragraphs, etc) with my fingers was SUPER clunky. Clearly, a mouse cursor is a far more accurate input methodology for busy interfaces.
• Managing the files: passing them to other team members, exporting them to other formats, importing zipped files from colleagues, handling files in a USB pen drive, etc. Quite a few times I had to hop onto my Mac due to the file management limitations.

Please note that these were NOT advanced or niche tasks. These were, simply, every-day corporate tasks with every-day corporate tools. A "pro" device should be able to facilitate a comfortable workflow in such familiar environments. Unfortunately, my iPad Pro 10.5 is a pain in such "pro" workflows

 

[Johnny Steps]

No he didn't. He is too young to know the past and lacks the vision to see the future. This guy (Steve Sinofsky of all people) gets it:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1059663467676762112.html

Lol wtf of a statement is that. “Too young to know the past” God forbid a tech enthusiast offers an opinion that has no value simply because he did not exist during the era of the Apple II.

 

[jmarttu24]

What’s really preventing the iPad from being a serious contender in the computer space is the lack of mouse and trackpad support.

It’s an iPad it’s not supposed to be needing any of those.

It would actually go against the purpose of the device itself

well they show the iPad running AutoCAD and I don't know about you but I use that program daily and it is impossible to work that program without a mouse or trackpad support. Why advertise that you can run a program and not be able to do crap with it.

 

[IowaLynn]

ARM on Mac is likely in development, start off with MacBook as public prototype probably. While Microsoft has it's eye on Qualcomm and only stayed with Intel on the Surface Go after steep price cuts.

So I think something will happen, that's the direction chips for SoC used in laptops are going.

 

[Marzel]

But to what end?


I'd imagine at this point, Macs are the red headed step child Apple doesn't give too much of a damn about, considering the minute numbers compared to iPhones and to a lesser extent iPads.

Then again, why change?
They own the tablet game like no other. iPads are much father ahead of the competition than iPhones have in years. People don't want tablets, people want iPads.

They might be ahead of the competition but iPad sales are also stable at best. When phones used to be small then owning a tablet made sense. Now that people realize that owning an XS Max and a laptop is enough, Apple needs to put some effort at differentiating iPad from other products. I actually think that Apple has realized that and has shifted its effort at upgrading the iPad software but of course that takes time. I actually think that apple will soon stop being so protective and safe with the iOS and start adding significant features because in the end of the day it doesn’t matter if you are on top of a failing device category.

 

[dwig]

They might be ahead of the competition but iPad sales are also stable at best. ...

... and its a stable market largely because a large (vast?) portion of the "pure tablet" user base has moved on to prefer 2-in-1 configurations. This can be seen in the extremely successful market segment on Windows. There, single piece 2-in-1s with extreme hinge ability and separateable models like the Surface Pro and Surface Go are very successful. They combine full mouse, trackpad, pen, and keyboard ability along with touchscreen functionality. True, the "Windows World" is somewhat lacking in touch-centric apps, but that is in no way a result of the hardware configurations or the OS.

 

[infernoguy]

But does it have to be? iPad supports multitasking, the 12.9" model has a screen as big as a small laptop. The issue is that multitasking is implemented erratically. You cannot trust that you can use it with every app and instead just get that all too slim hovering second app. A lot of Google apps are infuriating when something like Google Keep works with split screen multitasking but Google Maps does not. Apple needs to demand developers that they support the feature completely, for most developers this should not be a significant amount of extra work.

At the same time a lot of the apps for the power user on the iPad just don't exist, can't be used due to Apple's imposed limitations or require remoting to a server as a crutch. Things have gotten better for designers and music production folks with Pencil and apps suited for those workflows but for software developers the iPad is pretty much a no go because it can't run XCode, NodeJS, virtual machines etc. The main reason nobody is even developing these is because Apple doesn't want to let things like that run on their system.

Meanwhile the Surface Pro can do all of those things in a similar form factor but with the clunkiness of Windows 10 and a lot of non-tablet optimized UI. I feel like there is so much untapped potential for the iPad Pro and all it needs is better software but the problem has to be solved by Apple themselves and only then can 3rd party developers get in on the action.

Having both will suffice for now. I have a feeling that Apple will port Xcode, Final Cut Pro and other pro apps to the iPad and add features as the platform matures.

 

[sracer]

But to what end?


I'd imagine at this point, Macs are the red headed step child Apple doesn't give too much of a damn about, considering the minute numbers compared to iPhones and to a lesser extent iPads.

Then again, why change?
They own the tablet game like no other. iPads are much father ahead of the competition than iPhones have in years. People don't want tablets, people want iPads.

I agree. Apple isn't going to do those things because at this moment they are at the top of the hill. Since the introduction of the iPhone, Apple is reactive to market forces that don't align with their vision.

Apple was against producing a 7" tablet. It was only after 7" Android tablets began selling is significant enough numbers to get Apple's attention did they produce the iPad Mini... and knocked it out of the park.

Apple was against producing phablets. It was only after Android phablets began selling well that Apple then capitulated and started producing phablets.

The same will be true with pushing the boundaries of 2-in-1 devices. Should the competition sell in enough volume to get Apple's attention, THEN they'll produce something similar.

IMO, Apple is holding these things back until (or unless) that day of competition arrives. The release of the 2018 iPad w/Pencil support for the education market was a pre-emptive shot across the bow toward the Chrome OS tablets that are being released. Chrome OS tablets have the type of extendability that iPads don't and should they (Chrome tablets) get some traction, it'll be great for consumers.

I've stopped waiting for Apple to provide those things. I most definitely want them to, but in the meantime, I've found some great alternatives that I'm using now that suit me well... so Apple can take their time.

 

[dotnet]

God forbid a tech enthusiast offers an opinion that has no value simply because he did not exist during the era of the Apple II.

Not at all, he's welcome to offer an opinion, as long as he's prepared to have it challenged

 

[tromboneaholic]

ARM on Mac is likely in development, start off with MacBook as public prototype probably. While Microsoft has it's eye on Qualcomm and only stayed with Intel on the Surface Go after steep price cuts.

So I think something will happen, that's the direction chips for SoC used in laptops are going.

I agree. ARM MacBooks will be the keyboard and trackpad devices some people want the iPad to be.

 

[appleofmyibook]

I’ve been using an iPad Pro as my computer since January 2016 for 95% of my tasks. Spreadsheets are a nightmare on it but I don’t think it’s Apple’s fault. I hate having to double tap to get into a cell. So I use my MacBook for it.

When Apple positions the iPad as a replacement computer, they are generally not talking to people who have specialised workflows that require MacOS or Windows. They cannot compete in that space at the moment. This device is aimed at the following 3 groups:

- People who just need the device for general web browsing, media consumption, email and light tasks
- Artists, aspiring musicians and aspiring video editors
- The new generation who haven’t had as much exposure to Macs or PCs as people who are 25+ who can redefine what a computer actually does. This group of people is a huge and profitable segment for Apple. They grew up on iPhones and old iPads instead of iBooks and PowerBooks. I have relatives who are in this category who don’t see the need for a laptop - they find it cumbersome and not as intuitive.

I am as frustrated as everyone else about the lack of mouse support (for spreadsheets) and the inability to quickly navigate screens. Files - not so much because a lot of what I have is in the cloud. It’s really really close for me, but there are a few too many small but fundamental issues stopping me from ditching my MacBooks.

 

[infernoguy]

I’ve been using an iPad Pro as my computer since January 2016 for 95% of my tasks. Spreadsheets are a nightmare on it but I don’t think it’s Apple’s fault. I hate having to double tap to get into a cell. So I use my MacBook for it.

When Apple positions the iPad as a replacement computer, they are generally not talking to people who have specialised workflows that require MacOS or Windows. They cannot compete in that space at the moment. This device is aimed at the following 3 groups:

- People who just need the device for general web browsing, media consumption, email and light tasks
- Artists, aspiring musicians and aspiring video editors
- The new generation who haven’t had as much exposure to Macs or PCs as people who are 25+ who can redefine what a computer actually does. This group of people is a huge and profitable segment for Apple. They grew up on iPhones and old iPads instead of iBooks and PowerBooks. I have relatives who are in this category who don’t see the need for a laptop - they find it cumbersome and not as intuitive.

I am as frustrated as everyone else about the lack of mouse support (for spreadsheets) and the inability to quickly navigate screens. Files - not so much because a lot of what I have is in the cloud. It’s really really close for me, but there are a few too many small but fundamental issues stopping me from ditching my MacBooks.

Bingo!

 

[jeremiah256]

The same will be true with pushing the boundaries of 2-in-1 devices. Should the competition sell in enough volume to get Apple's attention, THEN they'll produce something similar.

And I think that day has arrived. If the Surface Book 2 had included USB-C/TB3, it probably would have been irresistible to many on the line between Microsoft and Apple, including myself. Even with the issues I have with Windows 10, I acknowledge, like the iPad, that while it is not perfect, it is close enough.

 

[sdwaltz]

Nailed it.

 

[gsapienza]

They go on and on about how "fast" the new iPads are, which is great, but they're also still hobbled by clunky multitasking, a lack of pointer support (especially egregious when an external display is connected), and a filesystem that has been abstracted and sandboxed away into absurdity.

Apple (and lots of fanboys) go on and on about how these things are great for getting work done, how they can replace your laptop, etc., and I have to wonder, what kind of work are people doing? Because for me, in order to do my work I need to be able to refer to multiple different source documents in multiple different formats. I need to be able to quickly manipulate blocks of text, images, charts, etc., and without filesystem access, a mouse pointer, and windowed multitasking it quickly goes from tedious to torturous.

So, I'm sure lots of folks can "work" on an iPad, but I'm not one of them, not really. Writing on an iPad? Great fun. Completing a writing project on an iPad? Impossible.

So, seriously, when people say they can do their "work" on an iPad, what are they doing? I'm genuinely curious.

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

 

[jeremiah256]

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

I have and have used pretty much every app you’ve listed and I would note that coding, which can and has been done traditionally with no or little need for a mouse, has totally different requirements than working with Word and Excel documents.

 

[secretk]

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

Sorry to bother you but do you happen to know an app that could help with Java coding? Can working copy connect to internal company repo (of course only when I am in the premise of the company and the network)?

As a Developer (albeit former as I am now more into leading the team) I do not want to use 5 apps to do tasks. I want one integrated IDE that I can use for everything. For example I can edit SQL, java and javascript in Eclipse. I can connect to git via Eclipse and I can debug via Eclipse. Switching between apps is already a hassle for me, it is slow and inefficient. Can I change my workflow? Of course I can, but I won't because efficiency is far more important to me than making myself get used to work with a device that has shortcomings.

You are right that not everyone took the time to explore the options like you did. However there are also some of us that do not want to spend that much time in finding ways to work with a device that will make us change our workflow when we have already working workflow that is efficient and optimized to our needs.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

When Apple positions the iPad as a replacement computer, they are generally not talking to people who have specialised workflows that require MacOS or Windows. They cannot compete in that space at the moment. This device is aimed at the following 3 groups:

- People who just need the device for general web browsing, media consumption, email and light tasks
- Artists, aspiring musicians and aspiring video editors
- The new generation who haven’t had as much exposure to Macs or PCs as people who are 25+ who can redefine what a computer actually does. This group of people is a huge and profitable segment for Apple. They grew up on iPhones and old iPads instead of iBooks and PowerBooks. I have relatives who are in this category who don’t see the need for a laptop - they find it cumbersome and not as intuitive.

I am as frustrated as everyone else about the lack of mouse support (for spreadsheets) and the inability to quickly navigate screens. Files - not so much because a lot of what I have is in the cloud. It’s really really close for me, but there are a few too many small but fundamental issues stopping me from ditching my MacBooks.

100% agreed!

 

[sracer]

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

As the regulars here know, I'm a champion of "THINK DIFFERENT". I advocate focusing on WHAT needs to get done rather than HOW you do it. That could mean using different apps and/or taking different steps and/or different approaches to accomplish the end goal. That approach results in more success than might have initially been thought possible.

But that approach also has its limits... limits that are imposed by iOS. There's no getting around those. It's helpful to acknowledge those hard limitations and make decisions based on that (not the "artificial" limits of duplicating a desktop workflow app for app, step for step)