Dave2D has NAILED the new iPadPro

[Mathias Denichi]

It's really not weird though, If they add mouse support to iOS then what happens is instead of app developers focusing on making a great experience for a touch input device they start to think about how to best utilize both options and then the potential to just port over your app that ends up working much better with a pointer than touch input becomes a reality and the need to innovate great apps for the iPad potentially starts to slip away.

That’s not true. Apple has strict requirements of how an app should work in touch before it’s even approved on the App Store.
Also, Apple is already planning for cross platform iOS and macOS apps this coming year. They will have mouse support already, so it only makes sense.

 

[RevTEG]

That might be true for the iPhones and the first iPads but today with iPads that are beating i7 notebooks on computing power and prices till $2000 the demands are growing too....I think IOS for iPads has to go beyond this initial purpose.

I agree with your statement. Personally don’t need a mouse for how I use my iPad Pro. I don’t even own a mouse. But.... Why not have the option? Nothing wrong with being able to toggle on/off mouse and trackpad support. Options, such a marvouls invention. Being able to toggle on/off mouse and trackpad support would only add productive to the iPad.

In my limited knowledge, I think Apple keeps some features separate so that one product doesn’t kill off another products sales.

 

[Mockletoy]

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

Ah, well. I'm sure you know my workflow far better than I ...

 

[richpjr]

Ah, well. I'm sure you know my workflow far better than I ...

LOL. I have no problem figuring out a new workflow IF it allowed me to work more efficiently, but I really roll my eyes at some of hyperbole in this thread. There are clearly people who can work with current limitations of iOS and that is wonderful for them. But to think that other people's workflow would not be massively decreased if they had to use an iPad Pro for serious work is not being stubborn about a workflow, it's needing a far less limiting operating system. So at the present time, while the hardware is way more than enough to support it, iOS is far too limiting for MY workflow so I can only use my iPad as a complimentary device.

 

[kodos]

If these hoops I hear about were for a $399 device, I would buy it. But for a $1k+ device? No way.

I think you are misinformed about this topic like many I see around these forms. Much like you once did with your computer, you have to take the time to figure out the ways in which the iPad can work for you. I am a developer and designer. I can create and edit and entire app UI in Affinity Designer (same features as the desktop app), use git with Working Copy, ftp with Transmit, SSH with a wide variety of apps, SQL editing with SQL Pro Studio, Python with Pythonista, photo editing with Affinity photo, and even use a local shell with the new iSH app which allows me to do things like compile C code. And on and on and on. All of these apps work just fine with the included Files app. You just need to do your research, and you will find that there are many different possibilities. The key is not to be closed minded and stubborn about your current workflows.

I can do all of that more efficiently with a MacBook Pro. Look, it is cute if your $399 tablet does these things. It is embarrassing to watch the hoops people jump through to do this kind of stuff on a $1k+ tablet.

 

[jamface]

Jeeeeez people what is it with the pointing device? They will never do it!
The device you’re asking for already exists, it’s called MacBook!

iOS is not designed for anything else than a finger. Everything, like EVERYTHING, including all apps would have to be redesigned.

.

No, they're asking for a device that functions like both an iPad and a MacBook. Its really easy to imagine.. can't you do it? And it can have a different name. one that hasn't been thought of yet. One that doesn't give people a reason to moan about how it's no longer this or that thing with a name that means so much to them...

And iOS functions very well without a finger when I'm using the pointing device they sell; arguably better a lot of the time. Yes I can use my finger, and yes it makes a lot of sense mostly - because my fingers are right there on my hand. But why can't it also make sense to use another object? Plenty of apps work just fine. What is this supposed need for 'EVERYTHING' to be redesigned?! It's just not true. And anyway, even if everything did have to be - so what? why can't everything change? It doesn't have to stay the way Steve Jobs said forever.

Apple will continue to find a way to make as much money as possible. Right now, it's by selling a number of different types of product. If in ten years it there happens to be one device that has turned out to replace them all, who is going to be lamenting the days of iPads and MacBooks?
[doublepost=1542132085][/doublepost]

Why don’t you, then, define what you think an iPad’s purpose is instead of snarking at the post and asking the OP to explain himself to YOU.

And it’s ludicrous to even silently suggest that the OP was arguing the merit of a mouse. Of COURSE it is a “superior form of input” and has been for about 40 years—but only so FOR THE DEVICE OF WHICH A MOUSE IS INTENDED. An iPad doesn’t need a mouse because an iPad already has a GUI that is built for touch interaction, therefore a mouse is not detrimental to an iPad’s functionality. Conversely, one could argue a MacBook needs touch input to make it a “far more superior device,” which would suck.

until you prop the iPad up in front of you, begin to use a keyboard to enter text, and then wish you had something on the same plane as the keyboard that would allow you to select things on screen.

Wouldn't that make more sense, ergonomically? Yes.

Fortunately for anyone who so passionately believes otherwise,in this more advanced scenario, you may still reach up and do copy paste (or whatever) with your finger, just like Steve advocated. Go on, feel free!

 

[Kiwikat88]

Cars do not need yokes, nor do airplanes need steering wheel.

Poor analogy... many airliners do indeed have "steering wheels" in the form of tillers. Some planes steer by differential braking instead. Rudder pedals control... the rudder.

The more you know™

I think I'm going to be replacing my 1st gen 12.9 tonight...

 

[earthdog]

If I could just get external mouse support I could do much more with IOS.

 

[RevTEG]

If I could just get external mouse support I could do much more with IOS.

What “more” would be possible? I can see some things maybe being faster or more laptop natural, but what “more” could be done that cant be done now?

 

[jeremiah256]

What “more” would be possible? I can see some things maybe being faster or more laptop natural, but what “more” could be done that cant be done now?

For example, if you are working with spreadsheets, no one has come up with a more efficient method of interaction than by using a mouse. Touch works, but slows down the user to the point it is adding unacceptable time to completion of tasks.

Also, if you are working on a document with various objects (like a complex presentation) and you had your iPad Pro attached to an external display as a mirror, your keyboard allows you to manipulate the screen via shortcuts, because the cursor (a type of pointer) is mirrored. Unfortunately, if you needed to, say rearrange objects, then the current situation is that you you have to remove your attention from your large display, go to your iPad Pro and then move the objects. It would be more efficient to have a mouse pointer, mirrored like your keyboard cursor.

 

[booksbooks]

For example, if you are working with spreadsheets, no one has come up with a more efficient method of interaction than by using a mouse. Touch works, but slows down the user to the point it is adding unacceptable time to completion of tasks.

Also, if you are working on a document with various objects (like a complex presentation) and you had your iPad Pro attached to an external display as a mirror, your keyboard allows you to manipulate the screen via shortcuts, because the cursor (a type of pointer) is mirrored. Unfortunately, if you needed to, say rearrange objects, then the current situation is that you you have to remove your attention from your large display, go to your iPad Pro and then move the objects. It would be more efficient to have a mouse pointer, mirrored like your keyboard cursor.

There are so many problems with multi-touch from a productivity standpoint. It has its benefits given the right context, but it's not a panacea: it's imprecise, slow, and unwieldy in application to many tasks.

We're 8 years on from the first iPad release, and 11 years from the debut of the first iPhone which introduced multi-touch. The iPhone replaced, literally within 3-4 years, Blackberries, physical phone keyboards, flip phones, iPods, PDAs...

This happened because the technology was better, and when all of that tech became combined into one device, it was much more cost effective for people because it was one device replacing several. And the way it worked was so natural people flocked to the new device and bought it. The market decided.

Tablets have not done this because they do not replace desktops and laptops like the iPhone replaced older phones, PDAs, and iPods. The form factor of laptops and desktops is venerable, laudable, practical, and in many contexts better than multitouch/tablets/iPads. And with the advent of all of the multi-touch now available in OS X so the same multi-touch in iOS is in OS X, in addition to having the speed, efficiency, and precision of point and click which is accurate to just 1 pixel, laptops and desktops have become that much more useful.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Jeeeeez people what is it with the pointing device? They will never do it!
The device you’re asking for already exists, it’s called MacBook!

iOS is not designed for anything else than a finger. Everything, like EVERYTHING, including all apps would have to be redesigned.

It would be perfectly fine if all apps would have proper shortcut support, and just a proper file system.

I don't believe that is true. The screen is nothing more than a digitizer. Apps read the x,y coordinates of where you are touching. A mouse point can report those same coordinates.

Android tablets (many people do not know) support bluetooth mice and while almost everyone touches the screen, a mouse works wonderfully with every app I've ever tried.

 

[Techwatcher]

What’s really preventing the iPad from being a serious contender in the computer space is the lack of mouse and trackpad support.

Progression won’t be made if you keep relying on a mouse and trackpad for a device that doesn’t need it. The future won’t have any of those for most things.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Poor analogy... many airliners do indeed have "steering wheels" in the form of tillers. Some planes steer by differential braking instead. Rudder pedals control... the rudder.

The more you know™

I think I'm going to be replacing my 1st gen 12.9 tonight...

That's what I did. Had I not been able to sell my old 12.9 for a decent price, I'd say it's not worth it though.

Sure, the TruMotion 120Hz is nice and buttery smooth, and the speed is decent, but to be honest, the 1st gen 12.9 was still very fast and did everything I needed it to. FaceID works fine, but I miss the home button.

BUT, new is nice, too.

 

[CrazyForCashews]

a device that doesn’t need it

Are you talking about the same device that Apple made a keyboard for? The same device Apple made a stylus for?

Why did Apple make a keyboard specifically for the iPad Pro when you can just use the touch keyboard? Why did Apple make the Pencil when you can just use your fingers?

I'll tell you why. Because a physical keyboard and a stylus are superior forms of input compared to the traditional methods. They're faster, better, and more efficient. Just like how a mouse and trackpad are superior forms of input than using your finger.

The iPad already has keyboard support, stylus support, and all it needs is mouse/trackpad support to be taken seriously. Until then it'll always be a joke for getting "work" done.

 

[dotnet]

Here's another insightful take, in case you missed it:
https://mattgemmell.com/the-big-ipad/

I'm not completely onboard with all of Matt's observations (I have no problem with typing on an on-screen keyboard, to me its only downside is that it obscures part of the screen), but I totally agree in general.

Now I wish people would stop embarrassing themselves with their lack of vision and stubborn insistence that the past shall last forever.

 

[jeremiah256]

There are so many problems with multi-touch from a productivity standpoint. It has its benefits given the right context, but it's not a panacea: it's imprecise, slow, and unwieldy in application to many tasks.

We're 8 years on from the first iPad release, and 11 years from the debut of the first iPhone which introduced multi-touch. The iPhone replaced, literally within 3-4 years, Blackberries, physical phone keyboards, flip phones, iPods, PDAs...

This happened because the technology was better, and when all of that tech became combined into one device, it was much more cost effective for people because it was one device replacing several. And the way it worked was so natural people flocked to the new device and bought it. The market decided.

Tablets have not done this because they do not replace desktops and laptops like the iPhone replaced older phones, PDAs, and iPods. The form factor of laptops and desktops is venerable, laudable, practical, and in many contexts better than multi-touch/tablets/iPads. And with the advent of all of the multi-touch now available in OS X so the same multi-touch in iOS is in OS X, in addition to having the speed, efficiency, and precision of point and click which is accurate to just 1 pixel, laptops and desktops have become that much more useful.

In my case, whether through individual apps, or via the browser, I already have access to almost everything I need for the iPad Pro to replace my MacBook. The power-up that the Share Sheet received, the Files app, and better integration with my password manager, and now, better external display support, all wonderful. And I haven't even had time to delve into the added capabilities of Workflow/Shortcuts.

Anything I need requiring workstation power that my iPad Pro can't handle can be outsourced to a server I hide in the closet, Digital Ocean or AWS. I'm on the cusp of never having to worry about purchasing more computer than I need in order to 'future' proof myself.

I don't want macOS on an iPad. I don't want to, IMHO, use the legacy form factor of a laptop unless I'm required to. I just want a pointer. Please.

 

[pika2000]

Couldn’t care less about this guy. He’s just a troll nowadays, albeit more “polite” than unbox therapy.

Real pros will use the tools that best suited for their work, not buying something then complain about it for not being a different kind of tool.

 

[booksbooks]

In my case, whether through individual apps, or via the browser, I already have access to almost everything I need for the iPad Pro to replace my MacBook. The power-up that the Share Sheet received, the Files app, and better integration with my password manager, and now, better external display support, all wonderful. And I haven't even had time to delve into the added capabilities of Workflow/Shortcuts.

Anything I need requiring workstation power that my iPad Pro can't handle can be outsourced to a server I hide in the closet, Digital Ocean or AWS. I'm on the cusp of never having to worry about purchasing more computer than I need in order to 'future' proof myself.

I don't want macOS on an iPad. I don't want to, IMHO, use the legacy form factor of a laptop unless I'm required to. I just want a pointer. Please.

You never needed a Mac in the first place. For those of us who need trucks, we use trucks.

For instance, your comment about external monitor support is laughable. Unlike on the Mac, you cannot extend your desktop, so no multi-monitor support. And when you are mirroring your display, you will have to look down at the iPad to touch it since your input isn’t visible like a mouse arrow is.

 

[richpjr]

Here's another insightful take, in case you missed it:
https://mattgemmell.com/the-big-ipad/

I'm not completely onboard with all of Matt's observations (I have no problem with typing on an on-screen keyboard, to me its only downside is that it obscures part of the screen), but I totally agree in general.

Now I wish people would stop embarrassing themselves with their lack of vision and stubborn insistence that the past shall last forever.

Nobody is insisting the past shall live forever. What I see is people saying they don't want to move to a new workflow that slows them down, dramatically at times. Change to a superior way of doing things is progress. Change to something that slows down your productivity is not. If your needs lend itself to what a tablet can do now, great - you are lucky. But for a lot, it's still a complimentary device. Apple could easily take care of 80+% of people's complaints with a few upgrades to iOS. Maybe someday.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

I’ve been a huge fan of the iPad Pros since they first launched.

But I can’t really defend apple for not adding mouse/trackpad support and a local file system.

Even if they ONLY supported the Apple Magic Mouse and Trackpad, it would just be one more overpriced thing they could charge me for! And I’d gladly buy it!

 

[jeremiah256]

You never needed a Mac in the first place. For those of us who need trucks, we use trucks.

For instance, your comment about external monitor support is laughable. Unlike on the Mac, you cannot extend your desktop, so no multi-monitor support. And when you are mirroring your display, you will have to look down at the iPad to touch it since your input isn’t visible like a mouse arrow is.

Psst, @booksbooks, no need to freak out. We ain't trying to steal your trucks or outlaw them. I like trucks. Go and enjoy your kit. The trucks of computing aren't going away for at least a generation because they are still needed. But there may be some confusion on what I was trying to convey about my fantasy use case with my iPad Pro.

I don't care about or need to extend my desktop (at this time). When productivity is best served by a keyboard and mouse, I want to set my iPad Pro on my desk, off to the side. I will then attach via USB-C, a beautiful wide screen 4K monitor. I will then attach both a keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth. By definition, if the 4K display is a mirror of the iPad screen, I will see the mouse pointer on the 4k display.

 

[richpjr]

I don't care about or need to extend my desktop (at this time). When productivity is best served by a keyboard and mouse, I want to set my iPad Pro on my desk, off to the side. I will then attach via USB-C, a beautiful wide screen 4K monitor. I will then attach both a keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth. By definition, if the 4K display is a mirror of the iPad screen, I will see the mouse pointer on the 4k display.

Extending your vision a bit - I'd have a small USB-C hub that the monitor and an external drive that I could read and write to attached. And if I'm greedy, an updated iOS with 2 documents of the same type opened in split windows.

Dare to dream...

 

[jeremiah256]

Extending your vision a bit - I'd have a small USB-C hub that the monitor and an external drive that I could read and write to attached. And if I'm greedy, an updated iOS with 2 documents of the same type opened in split windows.

Dare to dream...

Whoa, @richpjr, chill out, man! We're being called radicals and Luddites for wanting to use a mouse and you're talking about hubs?

 

[Dammit Cubs]

The only time, i set up a monitor with my iPad is that i needed to draw something and i didn’t want everyone hunched over my small screen, i quickly threw it up on a monitor and we were able to communicate quick and simple. I do think a mouse input would be nice....