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Most of you posting how the iPad needs mouse support fall in to one of two camps, or both:

  • You are afraid that Apple will discontinue selling products that run macOS
  • You are unable or unwilling to adapt to using iOS as your daily driver

I do believe there is compelling evidence to these fears, as Apple continues to sell more iPads than macOS products; Apple has a history of dropping popular hardware features on products for their vision of innovation (i.e., headphone jack, CD-ROM drives, FireWire ports, etc.) and mouse support could be next; the iPad is a more affordable device; iPads get more powerful and are updated more frequently than macOS devices; and developers now make more money and focus more attention on iOS software than macOS.

However, there is and for the near future still remain folks who need macOS, and the features of that software can’t/don’t/wouldn’t transfer well to a touch-input device, just as a touch-input screen wouldn’t work well with macOS. IMO, we don’t need to cannibalize one or the other to accommodate your fears in the bullet points above. Until those two points are “overcome,” the iPad Isn’t a Real Laptop debate will droll on forever.
 
Interesting...

"Apple's Smart Keyboard patent states the following in patent point #40: "In addition to the touchscreen, the tablet computer may receive input from other sources such as a keyboard, mouse, or possibly other devices.""

Source: https://www.patentlyapple.com/paten...ty-for-the-ipad-pros-smart-keyboard-more.html
Apple has started to slow-walk iOS' recognition of mice since iOS 10. With every release of iOS, I try to connect my Targus Presentation Remote Control (USB wireless dongle) to see how iOS responds. Prior to iOS 10, it would say "unrecognized device". Starting with iOS 10, it said, "mouse is not supported".

The conclusion I (erroneously) drew, was that Apple was going to bring mouse support to the 12.9 iPad Pro. Which obviously didn't happen. That is when I gave up.
 
  • CHECK - The iPad is (and always has been) probably the best content consumption device in the market.
It's debatable if it's even good for consumption when it comes to media. HEVC was just introduced last year which is years behind the rest of the industry and it still doesn't have VP9 support which is standard on other <= $100 tablets. On the app side it lacks things like AceStream.
 
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I don’t thing so. Mouse is dead on a device like the iPad. Your finger or even the pencil is far more precise than a mouse.
False. Mouse is far more precise than a finger or pencil on screen.
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If it’s not the best tool for the job, don’t use it. For some people, it’s the perfect device.
People like hybrid devices because they want to carry less devices. An ios ipad with mouse support
might not be as good as a pc, but it might make a better hybrid device
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To me a Surface Pro like device running OSX or iOS with better ability to run software would be ideal for the work I do. Due to disappointment with the MBP I'm heavily considering Surface Pro for my next work machine but am not all that fond of Windows 10 and its various quirks.
Yes Surface pro won the form factor race with far better keyboard solution,
trackpad, mouse support and tablet kickstand. A Surface like device--even with ios
--would be the best hybrid.
 
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False. Mouse is far more precise than a finger or pencil on screen.
Uh, that really sounds like a you problem. If you can’t point your finger exactly where you want it, but you can with a mouse. Sounds more neurological to me. Now if you’re talking Desktop apps vs Touch apps a mouse works better for an interface designed for a mouse. Your finger works better for an interface designed for touch. So my point stands that a mouse is dead for an iPad type interface. Your finger and the pencil are far more accurate.

If desktop apps were on the iPad and the interface was not changed for touch and still geared toward a mouse, then you would be correct. But that’s not the case here.
 
Uh, that really sounds like a you problem. If you can’t point your finger exactly where you want it, but you can with a mouse. Sounds more neurological to me. Now if you’re talking Desktop apps vs Touch apps a mouse works better for an interface designed for a mouse. Your finger works better for an interface designed for touch. So my point stands that a mouse is dead for an iPad type interface. Your finger and the pencil are far more accurate.

If desktop apps were on the iPad and the interface was not changed for touch and still geared toward a mouse, then you would be correct. But that’s not the case here.

Sort of. If you are just clicking a big button the home screen, the precision of a finger is clearly good enough. If you are trying to edit a text document the precision of a mouse is far superior for me. And when using the ASK, having to reach up to touch something on the screen is an ergonometric nightmare.
 
Uh, that really sounds like a you problem. If you can’t point your finger exactly where you want it, but you can with a mouse. Sounds more neurological to me. Now if you’re talking Desktop apps vs Touch apps a mouse works better for an interface designed for a mouse. Your finger works better for an interface designed for touch. So my point stands that a mouse is dead for an iPad type interface. Your finger and the pencil are far more accurate.

If desktop apps were on the iPad and the interface was not changed for touch and still geared toward a mouse, then you would be correct. But that’s not the case here.

Actually a finger cannot be precise when we are talking about editing text. Quite often I want to put the cursor on specific place in a word (to either delete or add a letter). My finger would cover the whole word. The pencil in general is more precise, but still not precise enough.

Also if I use a hardware keyboard (which is a must for me because of the topic above and the fact that editing text in iOS is PITA) the last thing I would want is to touch the screen. That's not convenient at all. For me it's either using finger/pencil or using hardware keyboard/trackpad. A mix between both is a nightmare.

And nevertheless I agree with others here. Just because iOS might support trackpad or mouse does not mean that everyone should use it. People would still be free to use finger/pencil. However for people like me who get frustrated every time we have to edit a text because that's just a nightmare, I would like to have the option to use hardware keyboard and trackpad. Software keyboard always slows me down. I am all about efficient. I am used to type fast and I want to type fast. Part of this is being able to edit text as well.

That being said I also agree that Apple would not add trackpad support because they are stubborn like that. Apple as a company thinks that they are allowed to control users on how their devices will be used. It's all great, but it's a reason why I have a certain threshold on how much I am willing to pay for an Apple product. Regular iPad is all I would pay for. For that price I feel OK in accepting the restrictions they impose on me. Anything other than that and they will have to offer me a lot more.
 
However for people like me who get frustrated every time we have to edit a text because that's just a nightmare, I would like to have the option to use hardware keyboard and trackpad. Software keyboard always slows me down. I am all about efficient. I am used to type fast and I want to type fast.

The fact that you wrote this shows me that you have no idea how to use an iPad or have never used one at all. You can already use a hardware keyboard with an iPad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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The fact that you wrote this shows me that you have no idea how to use an iPad or have never used one at all. You can already use a hardware keyboard with an iPad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There is and there. I can use hardware keyboard. I can't use hardware keyboard and trackpad which is something I want to have.

Hardware keyboard helps a bit, but it's still not enough. I still type quite faster on laptop than on an iPad and part of it is the mouse I use.

It's OK that you don't need it but don't try to convince me that I don't need something. I know the best what I need and the fact is that for me iPad sucks for typing and editting text. It might not suck for you, but it definitely sucks for me and other people. Hence the thread.
 
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That is true! The question is: Does it make sense to buy a new iPP now and hope for a much improved IOS 13, 14....or wait till that happens and buy then....

I am waiting to see what iO13 brings and will then wait for next year's iPad release.
 
There is and there. I can use hardware keyboard. I can't use hardware keyboard and trackpad which is something I want to have.

Hardware keyboard helps a bit, but it's still not enough. I still type quite faster on laptop than on an iPad and part of it is the mouse I use.

It's OK that you don't need it but don't try to convince me that I don't need something. I know the best what I need and the fact is that for me iPad sucks for typing and editting text. It might not suck for you, but it definitely sucks for me and other people. Hence the thread.
There are keyboard shortcuts to move within documents for typing. No one types with a mouse. So making a blanket statement that you need a mouse in order to type is confusing and bad habit. Learn the shift, control, and command + arrow keys shortcuts to maneuver around a document. Aside from that you are completely missing the point of the difference between an interface designed for a mouse and an interface designed for touch.
 
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There is and there. I can use hardware keyboard. I can't use hardware keyboard and trackpad which is something I want to have.

Hardware keyboard helps a bit, but it's still not enough. I still type quite faster on laptop than on an iPad and part of it is the mouse I use.

It's OK that you don't need it but don't try to convince me that I don't need something. I know the best what I need and the fact is that for me iPad sucks for typing and editting text. It might not suck for you, but it definitely sucks for me and other people. Hence the thread.

You are in such a small minority, fortunately, and that’s the way it is and the way it will be. You’re missing the forest for the trees—or, in this case, a tiny sapling.
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There are keyboard shortcuts to move within documents for typing. No one types with a mouse. So making a blanket statement that you need a mouse in order to type is confusing and bad habit. Learn the shift, control, and command + arrow keys shortcuts to maneuver around a document. Aside from that you are completely missing the point of the difference between an interface designed for a mouse and an interface designed for touch.

Exactly! +1
 
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You are in such a small minority, fortunately, and that’s the way it is and the way it will be. You’re missing the forest for the trees—or, in this case, a tiny sapling.


I specifically stated that I am pretty aware that I am minority in my post. I also specifically stated that I do not expect Apple to consider my wishes or do something about it. That does not mean that I am not allowed to comment and say that the current iOS functionality about editing text is lacking for me. Just like all of those reviewers say the same thing. And it's not about the mobile OS because I have Android phone. I can edit text in Android. I can write an email faster on my 4.6 inch screen then on my iPad. iOS and editing text is just a contradiction in itself.

But then again there is one thing I dislike about my iPad and that is iOS. It's just not intuitive at all. Settings menu is a mess. Control center is complete BS and nonsense as it does not even redirect me to Settings. Editing text is non working feature almost. Files management is lacking. I have to do all sort of gymnastics so be able to have the flexibility to open files in different apps. And Apple's own apps crash on me. Notifications panel is not that good either. What sucks is that Apple would not change this as they seem to think that iOS is a cool thing.
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There are keyboard shortcuts to move within documents for typing. No one types with a mouse. So making a blanket statement that you need a mouse in order to type is confusing and bad habit. Learn the shift, control, and command + arrow keys shortcuts to maneuver around a document. Aside from that you are completely missing the point of the difference between an interface designed for a mouse and an interface designed for touch.

Ok it seems that you don't understand what I am saying. If I am using a hardware keyboard I do not want to touch the screen at all. If I need precision I need to be able to do it in a way that does not require me reaching to the screen. Selecting text with mouse is faster than with arrows and keyboard. Zooming is faster with mouse plus Control/Command than with touch screen.

Also I am not talking about interface done for touch. I am talking about text typing. There is nothing about touch here. It's about precision. And like I said it's not even about this. Android can do it without mouse. iOS can't.

If I am using hardware keyboard then I do not care about touch interface. I care about typing. I want to be able to drag and drop images without touch. I want to be able to switch between mouse and keyboard shortcuts. Finger and gestures are not an option in that case and I would not use them.

To each their own. Apple would not do it anyway. They don't do it because it would compromise the tablet experience. They don't do it because they decided so. There is no valid reason for Apple to not support this. They just have decided that iPad would not support it and they won't do it until they have good competition to fight against.
 
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@secretk I’m done, you aren’t getting what we are stating regarding interface types at all. Nor do you seem to know the control mechanisms for both interface types. But are arguing against touch interface expecting them to be the same.

The control mechanism you’re referring to in your last post applies to desktop OS and has different functionality with touch OS.
 
If I am using a hardware keyboard I do not want to touch the screen at all.

^This. It seems like people are trying very hard to rationalize the shortcomings of the iPad and iOS. I find it ironic that Apple gave us a rudimentary way to emulate a trackpad with the virtual keyboard, which kind of undercuts the entire people don’t need it argument.
 
@secretk I’m done, you aren’t getting what we are stating regarding interface types at all. Nor do you seem to know the control mechanisms for both interface types. But are arguing against touch interface expecting them to be the same.

The control mechanism you’re referring to in your last post applies to desktop OS and has different functionality with touch OS.

Like I said to each their own :). For you iOS work as expected and for you my issues with it are mine (meaning due to me). I say that you are trying to excuse iOS for its shortcomings by finding the fault in me when it's in iOS. Having hardware keyboard and still having to touch the screen is not convenient.

But I am done as well. You like iOS so you can't understand why I have issues with it.
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^This. It seems like people are trying very hard to rationalize the shortcomings of the iPad and iOS. I find it ironic that Apple gave us a rudimentary way to emulate a trackpad with the virtual keyboard, which kind of undercuts the entire people don’t need it argument.

Exactly! Let's be honest here. Apple has reasons to not support mouse/trackpad and it's definitely not because they want to preserve their tablet experience or touch interface. Come on. I work in a software company and develop web application. I know pretty well how business defines software applications.

I prefer for people to just tell as it is instead of finding excuses.
 
Uh, that really sounds like a you problem. If you can’t point your finger exactly where you want it, but you can with a mouse. Sounds more neurological to me.
How big is your finger? How big is a curser? Is your hand transparent? Is the mouse moving
on a flat plane or inclined tablet surface? Now, who has the neurological issue.
 
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Wasn’t hard to nail, if the current model I have ( now as a backup) had 4gb of ram, I wouldn’t have wasted money on this Pro 11 but 2gb of ram giving me to much headache for daily user now
 
^This. It seems like people are trying very hard to rationalize the shortcomings of the iPad and iOS. I find it ironic that Apple gave us a rudimentary way to emulate a trackpad with the virtual keyboard, which kind of undercuts the entire people don’t need it argument.
Not at all. We want more power user features for sure. But we want them to keep the touch interface and workflow methodology. The desktop workflow and methodology does not work for touch nor is it needed for a power user environment if done correctly.

If you take the Surface Pro for example. This device is great for keyboard and mouse, because the OS methodology is designed around it. It’s pretty trash for touch. While touch works it doesn’t work well. And the Microsoft pen is garbage, again it works just not well.

The iPad would suffer the same in regards to a mouse interface being tracked on in a touch environment. It would work, it just wouldn’t work well at all.
 
Not at all. We want more power user features for sure. But we want them to keep the touch interface and workflow methodology. The desktop workflow and methodology does not work for touch nor is it needed for a power user environment if done correctly.

So in your opinion what could be done on an iOS to make the iPad a better device?

If you take the Surface Pro for example. This device is great for keyboard and mouse, because the OS methodology is designed around it. It’s pretty trash for touch. While touch works it doesn’t work well. And the Microsoft pen is garbage, again it works just not well.

I have not used Surface Pro but I have read the same from a lot of people.

The iPad would suffer the same in regards to a mouse interface being tracked on in a touch environment. It would work, it just wouldn’t work well at all.

Basically you think that you can't have an user interface that can work both for touch and trackpad. Is my understanding correct?

I believe that it can be done, but it takes time. And I believe that both Microsoft and Apple should invest in this so that we can have devices like that. Granted this is what I need and yes it depends on the market and how many others need this. Only then both companies would invest time and money to work on this.

For me personally regular laptop (so when it has keyboard) does not need touch screen. It's just not practical. On the other hand you can do a lot with touch screen (when you fold the keyboard or remove it). I have both laptop and an iPad and I use them for different things. Problem is I cannot replace my laptop with an iPad and vice versa. I want to be able to do it. That is my idea of a perfect device. I want 13.3 inch (12.9 or 13 works too) that can be both laptop (with mouse and keyboard) and a tablet.

Can it be done now right away? No it can't because yes people need to reevaluate the whole user experience. However at some point it will be needed. More and more apps (desktop, web or mobile) need to consider accessibility topics and cater to disabled people. I have had issues with my hand that made using gestures and touch screens impossible. Using mouse sucked too. Trackpad however worked out great. You have no idea how much I appreciated having options at that point because I can't even do my work without a computer.

On the other hand I have also had voice issues that have made typing the only option for communication for weeks. People would come and talk to me and I would type back the answers.

More and more we need devices that are able to handle such disabilities (luckily in my case temporary but that's not always the case). For me personally that is part of the future but yes time and money will have to be invested in this.
 
There is and there. I can use hardware keyboard. I can't use hardware keyboard and trackpad which is something I want to have.

Hardware keyboard helps a bit, but it's still not enough. I still type quite faster on laptop than on an iPad and part of it is the mouse I use.

It's OK that you don't need it but don't try to convince me that I don't need something. I know the best what I need and the fact is that for me iPad sucks for typing and editting text. It might not suck for you, but it definitely sucks for me and other people. Hence the thread.
If you need mouse support (as I do), then waiting for Apple to bring it to the iPad is not a wise decision. There is a wide variety of tablets and 2-in-1s that DO offer mouse/trackpad support. Although I still heavily use my iMac and iPads, I have mobile Android and Chrome OS devices that I use when I need access to mouse support on the road, and whether it is using the web version of iWork, Google apps, or remotely connecting to my iMac, I can get "stuff done" without having to go wholesale over to another platform.
 
Who needs a mouse when WordStarr has all the keyboard commands as hand? Drop down menus, move cursor, select a letter word line or paragraph? Bug GUI and with it the mouse caught on. Yet Apple seemed to refuse to offer keyboard commands, forcing users to use the mouse and take your hand away from the keyboard. It was MS Word 3.02 that offered both.

And here we are: touch or mouse and keyboard. Or, all three.

I need to see a Surface Go with Windows S (Home and Pro also an option) to see if it’s improved from the 8.1 RT I used for a year. Alongside Samsung S-Oen (excellent imo) along with Tab S3, and my IPP.

I think the day Apple puts an ARM inside a MacBook might also be when touch tablet desktop could be a reality. Health professionals like something akin to the Go. Small, carry it from patient interviews, sit down and do a write up, on one device.
 
If you need mouse support (as I do), then waiting for Apple to bring it to the iPad is not a wise decision. There is a wide variety of tablets and 2-in-1s that DO offer mouse/trackpad support. Although I still heavily use my iMac and iPads, I have mobile Android and Chrome OS devices that I use when I need access to mouse support on the road, and whether it is using the web version of iWork, Google apps, or remotely connecting to my iMac, I can get "stuff done" without having to go wholesale over to another platform.

I agree with you. I do not think that it will happen anytime soon (if it happens at all) :). For now I am just using my regular iPad fully knowing that it is a device for handwritten notes and for playing with Procreate and I just do not expect anything more from it.

Unfortunately I bought a powerful Windows laptop just last year around this time so I can't now justify purchasing yet another device. I do plan to go into that option (2 in 1s) in 2/3 years though. I hope that by then those devices would be even better.
 
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Problem is I cannot replace my laptop with an iPad and vice versa. I want to be able to do it. That is my idea of a perfect device. I want 13.3 inch (12.9 or 13 works too) that can be both laptop (with mouse and keyboard) and a tablet.

First, I have enjoyed our discussions in this and another thread.

I am pretty much at the same point you are, other than I don't have the issues with text selection and movement you are experiencing. I wouldn't mind a mouse interface for iOS, but a part of me thinks we may see some sort of total paradigm shift when Apple moves to ARM. While I agree on the surface that Apple isn't merging macOS and iOS, I could also seem creating a new OS that is more of a blend of the two.

I love my iPad and I love my MacBook Pro. I think it will be a while for me before I can replace them with one device. I am reevaluating some of my Mac-only workflows to see if they are really that important to me to stay on macOS.
 
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