Dave2D has NAILED the new iPadPro

[RevTEG]

For example, if you are working with spreadsheets, no one has come up with a more efficient method of interaction than by using a mouse. Touch works, but slows down the user to the point it is adding unacceptable time to completion of tasks.

Also, if you are working on a document with various objects (like a complex presentation) and you had your iPad Pro attached to an external display as a mirror, your keyboard allows you to manipulate the screen via shortcuts, because the cursor (a type of pointer) is mirrored. Unfortunately, if you needed to, say rearrange objects, then the current situation is that you you have to remove your attention from your large display, go to your iPad Pro and then move the objects. It would be more efficient to have a mouse pointer, mirrored like your keyboard cursor.

I understand and you’re right. However, as you’ve explained, doing it on an iPad is still possible. It’s just more cumbersome in some situations without a type of pointer. It’s still possible to complete the task, just not in the way that we are used to doing it. My original response to @earthdog was asking what “more” could me done. Not what could be done more easily. Many of us are developing new ways to do things. My two older kids are in school. They both have MacBooks and prefer the workflow of their iPads. It’s just the workflow they’ve grown up using. Neither of them have ever owned an actual mouse.

 

[booksbooks]

I understand and you’re right. However, as you’ve explained, doing it on an iPad is still possible. It’s just more cumbersome in some situations without a type of pointer. It’s still possible to complete the task, just not in the way that we are used to doing it. My original response to @earthdog was asking what “more” could me done. Not what could be done more easily. Many of us are developing new ways to do things. My two older kids are in school. They both have MacBooks and prefer the workflow of their iPads. It’s just the workflow they’ve grown up using. Neither of them have ever owned an actual mouse.

I haven't used a mouse in probably 10 years. The idea and concept of a mouse has changed. Now, we have trackpads that service double duty: mouse and a multi-touch surface.

 

[seadragon]

I've never understood the resistance to offering optional pointer control of an iPad via trackpad or mouse. If you can point and click with a fat finger tip, you can point and click with an accurate mouse or trackpad pointer. The OS, apps etc. would not need to be changed in the slightest.

For me, it's all about ergonomics. When iPad is docked to the keyboard, the most natural and comfortable method of interacting with the screen is not to touch it as it involves physically lifting one's hand off and above the horizontal surface. Much better to use a device on the same plane as the keyboard. Plus, text selection would be much easier as well.

Then, when the iPad is once again used handheld, the finger (or pencil) becomes the more ergonomic tool.

I personally would welcome the addition of mouse or trackpad support for the iPad. I currently use a Citrix mouse with Remote Desktop on my iPad but am always sad when I can't use it for anything else.

 

[sracer]

I've never understood the resistance to offering optional pointer control of an iPad via trackpad or mouse. If you can point and click with a fat finger, you can point and click with an accurate mouse or trackpad pointer. The OS, apps etc. would not need to be changed in the slightest.

For me, it's all about ergonomics. When iPad is docked to the keyboard, the most natural and comfortable method of interacting with the screen is not to touch it as it involves physically lifting one's hand off above the horizontal surface. Much better to use a device on the same plane as the keyboard. Plus, text selection would be much easier as well.

Then, when the iPad is once again used handheld, the finger (or pencil) becomes the more ergonomic tool.

I personally would welcome the addition of mouse or trackpad support for the iPad. I currently use a Citrix mouse with Remote Desktop on my iPad but am always sad when I can't use it for anything else.

Isn't using the Citrix X1 mouse on the iPad a great experience?! Although it works just fine on my 2018 iPad, I much prefer to use it on the 12.9 iPad Pro... it really feels natural to be able to switch between iOS and (via Jump Desktop) macOS on the same device.

 

[seadragon]

Isn't using the Citrix X1 mouse on the iPad a great experience?! Although it works just fine on my 2018 iPad, I much prefer to use it on the 12.9 iPad Pro... it really feels natural to be able to switch between iOS and (via Jump Desktop) macOS on the same device.

Yes, it is great! I work in IT and what I like now is that I no longer need to bring my laptop with me when I travel. I just pack my 12.9 iPad Pro and Citrix X1 in my bag. Then, when needed, I just dock the iPad in the Smart Keyboard, VPN into the office and voila... just like sitting in front on my computer at the office. It makes the iPad even more useful to me. But when I'm done with the RDP session, I have to go back to tapping on the screen again. I really wish I could just continue using the mouse while docked. I'm using Jump and more recently Remotix for RDP access.

 

[Mainsail]

I've never understood the resistance to offering optional pointer control of an iPad via trackpad or mouse. If you can point and click with a fat finger, you can point and click with an accurate mouse or trackpad pointer. The OS, apps etc. would not need to be changed in the slightest.

For me, it's all about ergonomics. When iPad is docked to the keyboard, the most natural and comfortable method of interacting with the screen is not to touch it as it involves physically lifting one's hand off above the horizontal surface. Much better to use a device on the same plane as the keyboard. Plus, text selection would be much easier as well.

Then, when the iPad is once again used handheld, the finger (or pencil) becomes the more ergonomic tool.

I personally would welcome the addition of mouse or trackpad support for the iPad. I currently use a Citrix mouse with Remote Desktop on my iPad but am always sad when I can't use it for anything else.

I understand what you are saying and generally agree with you. However, I found using my 2017 iPad 9.7 with a keyboard case that I can comfortably rest my hands on the bottom corners of the iPad but close to the keys. Then I can scroll with my thumbs. And, my hands are never far from the keyboard for typing or from the screen for pointing/gesturing. Ironically, one of the advantages of a smaller iPad is that the excursions are smaller, so less hand movement. Of course, this comes at the price of screen real estate.

 

[seadragon]

I understand what you are saying and generally agree with you. However, I found using my 2017 iPad 9.7 with a keyboard case that I can comfortably rest my hands on the bottom corners of the iPad but close to the keys. Then I can scroll with my thumbs. And, my hands are never far from the keyboard for typing or from the screen for pointing/gesturing. Ironically, one of the advantages of a smaller iPad is that the excursions are smaller, so less hand movement. Of course, this comes at the price of screen real estate.

Yes, the screen size certainly would have an effect on this. I really like the 12.9 but the reach to the screen when docked is a bit much. I guess I just view mouse/trackpad support as yet another tool in the toolbox that would be available to those that desire it. Those that are not interested in such a tool would be free to continue without it. Everyone wins.

 

[QCassidy352]

No, it's a lack of a file system. The iPad is supposed to have a different input method. That's the whole point of it.

It’s so many things. Lack of file system, lack of pointing device support, lack of external storage support, lack of multiple instances of a single application (except you can have two safari windows), terrible multitasking... and so on.

I like my iPad and have had one since 2011, but it’s nothing but a consumption device to me. Which is fine! It’s better than either my iPhone or Mac at that, so it definitely has its place.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

Marques Brownlee has released his review on the iPad...

Same conclusions as Dave 2D: amazing hardware, but limited by the software.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

It’s so many things. Lack of file system, lack of pointing device support, lack of external storage support, lack of multiple instances of a single application (except you can have two safari windows), terrible multitasking... and so on.

I like my iPad and have had one since 2011, but it’s nothing but a consumption device to me. Which is fine! It’s better than either my iPhone or Mac at that, so it definitely has its place.

Agreed, and that is precisely the culprit of this whole debate: what is Apple's vision for the iPad, and where is it evolving?

Let's review the iPad's main usage scenarios:

• CHECK - The iPad is (and always has been) probably the best content consumption device in the market.
• CHECK - Moreover, it's always been an adequate device for light productivity tasks: emails, writing essays, etc.
• CHECK - As of lately, it's also become a solid computer for artists: drawing, photo/video editing, music DJs, etc.
• FAIL - However, where it has never reached its full potential is as a full laptop replacement for productivity-concious users, due to iOS limitations: no unrestricted file management, no multi-user logins, no cursor pointer, no flexible multi-window multi tasking, no external storage support for backups, no multi-monitor setup, etc.

And that is fundamentally the question that Apple has to address in the near future, now that the hardware is finally powerful enough for the job: Is the iPad meant to become a full laptop replacement some day, or is Apple's vision for the iPad already fulfilled?

 

[DaveOZ]

I haven't used a mouse in probably 10 years. The idea and concept of a mouse has changed. Now, we have trackpads that service double duty: mouse and a multi-touch surface.

You just can't generalise. Everyone uses their computer for different tasks. Doing CAD or 3D work on a track-pad is a nightmare. A scroll wheel mouse is still the best method of interaction. I'm not sure proper production CAD will ever work on a tablet. But the things have changed a lot since I started using CAD in 1985 and I can't wait to see what's around the corner.

 

[tromboneaholic]

• FAIL - However, where it has never reached its full potential is as a full laptop replacement for productivity-concious users, due to iOS limitations: no unrestricted file management, no multi-user logins, no cursor pointer, no flexible multi-window multi tasking, no external storage support for backups, no multi-monitor setup, etc.

We already have laptops. There is no need to replace them.

We already have a device with file management, multi user login, cursors, and external storage.

Where is the logic in arguing that Apple has failed to turn an iPad into a laptop when laptops already exist?

The iPad is and iPad, not a laptop.

 

[fm_carv]

Marques Brownlee has released his review on the iPad...

Same conclusions as Dave 2D: amazing hardware, but limited by the software.

So an iPad is just an iPad......GENIUS!

Let me guess now....and a MacBook is just a laptop

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

We already have laptops. There is no need to replace them.

We already have a device with file management, multi user login, cursors, and external storage.

The iPad is and iPad, not a laptop.

That is fine then, if that's Apple's vision for the iPad...

HOWEVER, if that's indeed the case, then Apple needs to...

• Stop advertising as a computer replacement. They marketing material DOES claim that the iPad is a computer replacement, and that is simply not true at this point.
• Stop wasting R&D resources in making the iPad more and more powerful, since those resources are not leveraged by iOS. Instead, if it's meant to stay as a device aimed for content consumption and light tasks, then R&D should focus on features like convenience, affordability, portability, etc, not sheer GPU and CPU power at an ultra premium price.

I repeat, the iPad doesnt need to become a laptop replacement, as long as Apple's marketing and R&D stays congruent with that vision.

 

[sracer]

That is fine then, if that's Apple's vision for the iPad...

HOWEVER, if that's indeed the case, then Apple needs to...

• Stop advertising as a computer replacement. They marketing material DOES claim that the iPad is a computer replacement, and that is simply not true at this point.
• Stop wasting R&D resources in making the iPad more and more powerful, since those resources are not leveraged by iOS. Instead, if it's meant to stay as a device aimed for content consumption and light tasks, then R&D should focus on features like convenience, affordability, portability, etc, not sheer GPU and CPU power at an ultra premium price.

I repeat, the iPad doesnt need to become a laptop replacement, as long as Apple's marketing and R&D stays congruent with that vision.

I can appreciate your effort to press forward to show people the value of adding things like support for mice/trackpads and universally accessible file system. It is a fruitless endeavor. I used to be that person. But as you are seeing first hand, there are those who simply want what Apple offers and nothing beyond that.

They are content with whatever the current state of Apple's products are. That's not a negative, but it is their perspective. You are not going to convince those folks that those things that we have advocated for are worthwhile. Should there come a day when Apple provides those things on an iPad, they'll come around and sing Apple's praises.

Until then, you can "make do" without those things or, explore alternatives that DO offer those things and see if, in actual use, they are as important as you believe. The latter approach is the one I've taken and I'm quite surprised at the results.

 

[maflynn]

We already have laptops. There is no need to replace them.

Apple disagrees with you. They see the tablet as the future.

 

[fm_carv]

That is fine then, if that's Apple's vision for the iPad...

HOWEVER, if that's indeed the case, then Apple needs to...

• Stop advertising as a computer replacement. They marketing material DOES claim that the iPad is a computer replacement, and that is simply not true at this point.
• Stop wasting R&D resources in making the iPad more and more powerful, since those resources are not leveraged by iOS. Instead, if it's meant to stay as a device aimed for content consumption and light tasks, then R&D should focus on features like convenience, affordability, portability, etc, not sheer GPU and CPU power at an ultra premium price.

I repeat, the iPad doesnt need to become a laptop replacement, as long as Apple's marketing and R&D stays congruent with that vision.

For many including myself the iPad has been a laptop replacement since 2015....when I got rid of my MacBook and never looked back

It really depends of how your workflow looks like.

But my guess is for the majority of people the iPad as it is now is more than enough

 

[Never mind]

Then Apple should market the iPad as not a complete notebook replacement, (closer) but is to some with light computer needs.

 

[tromboneaholic]

That is fine then, if that's Apple's vision for the iPad...

HOWEVER, if that's indeed the case, then Apple needs to...

• Stop advertising as a computer replacement. They marketing material DOES claim that the iPad is a computer replacement, and that is simply not true at this point.
• Stop wasting R&D resources in making the iPad more and more powerful, since those resources are not leveraged by iOS. Instead, if it's meant to stay as a device aimed for content consumption and light tasks, then R&D should focus on features like convenience, affordability, portability, etc, not sheer GPU and CPU power at an ultra premium price.

I repeat, the iPad doesnt need to become a laptop replacement, as long as Apple's marketing and R&D stays congruent with that vision.

The 2018 iPad is $329. That seems pretty affordable to me. Everyone seems to be focusing on the pro devices, as if that's all Apple is offering.

Apple is still selling laptops. They market iPad as a device that can replace a laptop, but obviously many people still need laptops or Apple would just stop marketing and selling laptops.

I know that some people think spreadsheets are important, but those people work in offices at desks where a laptop is probably the best tool to use. Personally, seeing the full version of Photoshop coming to iPad next year is exactly the type of "computer replacement" that excites me. As a content creator who often works out in the field on location, I want to see more media creation tools come to the platform, and I think this is the first step.

Also, seeing Adobe invest it's development resources into supporting Metal on the iPad is promising. Premier Pro already runs better on a $5,000 iMac than on a $10,000 custom-built Windows machine, and part of the reason for this is because of Metal.

In the end, I agree with others who speculate ARM processors will power the next generation of Macs, and Apple won't be at the mercy of Intel's missed deadlines. The R&D spend is driving Apple's future along a roadmap that seems pretty clear if you take a step back.

The next generations of Macs will be the laptop replacements - lighter, more powerful, and more energy efficient.

 

[sracer]

Then Apple should market the iPad as not a complete notebook replacement, (closer) but is to some with light computer needs.

Or maybe people can be a bit more intelligent and realize that Apple, like all other companies, engage in a bit of hyperbole in their marketing.

 

[Azathoth123]

The question of why not just buy a MBA or MBP, etc if you want a laptop has been asked (and not sufficiently answered IMO). So let me recast the question.

What is it about the iPad - if it had a pointing device, file browser, and external storage - that would make you choose it over one of the MacBook models?

 

[tromboneaholic]

Apple disagrees with you. They see the tablet as the future.

No. Apple still sells Macs and haven't indicated they plan to stop. Apple sees tablets as a product in a market with room to grow.

Apple sees Services as the future. They see Wearables as the future. They see AR as the future. They see a line of products and services (including tablets, phones, and computers) that work together to create a platform that extends across the hardware (independent of the hardware) as the future.

 

[seadragon]

I can appreciate your effort to press forward to show people the value of adding things like support for mice/trackpads and universally accessible file system. It is a fruitless endeavor. I used to be that person. But as you are seeing first hand, there are those who simply want what Apple offers and nothing beyond that.

They are content with whatever the current state of Apple's products are. That's not a negative, but it is their perspective. You are not going to convince those folks that those things that we have advocated for are worthwhile. Should there come a day when Apple provides those things on an iPad, they'll come around and sing Apple's praises.

Until then, you can "make do" without those things or, explore alternatives that DO offer those things and see if, in actual use, they are as important as you believe. The latter approach is the one I've taken and I'm quite surprised at the results.

You make some good points, sracer. And you are right, if/when the day comes that Apple does offer these things (like mouse support), the naysayers will embrace it because, well Apple did it.

I'll never forget when the Apple TV 3rd gen came out and Apple removed the support for bluetooth keyboards. The only control that worked was the little remote control that comes with it. Entering text was an absolute pain for things like passwords and those that like to do searches etc. because it involved using that tiny remote to "hunt and peck" the characters.

It wasn't clear as to Apple's intention, yet there were a lot of people on this very forum that we quite snarky to those complaining about the lack of keyboard support, saying things like "you don't need a keyboard", "why on earth do you need a keyboard", "keyboards are not the way to use an Apple TV", "Apple knows what they're doing" etc. Some time passed and Apple DID finally support keyboards again along with an updated iOS app allowing for multiple OPTIONAL ways to interface with the Apple TV. All those rude folks suddenly went silent.

Personally, I would love to see the iPad become even MORE of a laptop replacement by adding more features to it. There is the here and now, but I like to think of possibilities and what could be. I would welcome an all-in-one portable computing device someday. I mean, why not? Plus, its getting so expensive to have all of these different devices now.

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

That might be true for the iPhones and the first iPads but today with iPads that are beating i7 notebooks on computing power and prices till $2000 the demands are growing too....I think IOS for iPads has to go beyond this initial purpose.

My only reason for wanting mouse and keyboard support is to shoot badguys.

 

[richpjr]

The question of why not just buy a MBA or MBP, etc if you want a laptop has been asked (and not sufficiently answered IMO). So let me recast the question.

What is it about the iPad - if it had a pointing device, file browser, and external storage - that would make you choose it over one of the MacBook models?

Because it would drastically reduce the need for a laptop for all but some very specific niches. All of the things mentioned could easily be added to iOS without ruining the tablet for use as a tablet. People could have the best of both worlds.