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Dear Apple, WHY NO BLU RAY in the new Macs!?!?! ARGH!
- Thread starter msmth928
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I guess I didn't interpret your statement correctly.
I see the point you are making and agree to the point that I don't want DRM in my way for what I am legally entitled to. I guess I have just never had a problem with DRM itself per se. I don't mind paying for something that somebody is selling. Getting a copy of purchased content (thus no transfer of ownership) that is owned by someone else for free is dishonest and is stealing. Stealing is a crime against others even if it doesn't fell like it.
I do however want (and use) the ability to make a copy of my purchased content for personal and "fair use" like copying DVDs I purchased to my iPod. This is provided for in court precedents, though not the law, but interpretation is enough in our system. I know that process is a lot harder with Blu-Ray and concerns me, but the artists and content providers have the right to protect their product. Same as anyone else in a capitalist or free market system.
Cheers!
I remember reading about some people having difficulty writing to certain BD-RW drives installed internally in to Mac Pros using Toast. I don't know if that's still true or if the issue has been resolved. If I remember correctly, firewire BD-RW drives worked fine. But double check before making a purchase.
I don't think Apple has a problem with DRM itself, as others have logically deduced; but what Apple does have a problem with is other people's DRM in their ecosystem. If Apple doesn't control the whole widget, they don't ship it. And that principle seems to extend to their partners as well. I seem to recall that the reason they went with AT&T for their iPhone was because they got them to implement iPhone only/specific tech--Visual Voicemail--and also get very attractive profit sharing. Anyway, after reading some of the links in this thread and knowing how anal Apple is about extensive control of their ecosystem, I am starting to be convinced that they will never adopt BluRay as long as there is kernel-level DRM.
To all the Blu-Ray complainers
Perhaps it's time you took a step back and looked at the situation from a fresh angle. Make of this information what you will:
Perhaps it's time you took a step back and looked at the situation from a fresh angle. Make of this information what you will:
- Consumer uptake of Blu-Ray players has been slower than anticipated, both in movies and data storage.
- Apple would never give us BD movie capability without BD data too... or vice versa. History tells us this, from Apple's handling of CD and DVD.
- Apple does not normally give new hardware features to lower-end models or product lines first. The iMac is NOT top of the line - the Mac Pro IS.
- Blu-Ray Movie licensing is still onerous, and is something Apple doesn't like having to deal with. The restrictions Apple would have to implement to get Blu-Ray playback to work properly are against Apple's philosophy, for one thing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think DVD's DRM hooks as deeply in to the OS as blu-ray.
Allow me to retort:
Consumer uptake of Blu-Ray players has been slower than anticipated, both in movies and data storage.
Yes. But it's starting to pick up pace. While its obviously a chicken and egg question, I thought Apple would want to be somewhere towards the front of a movement, not towards the back.,
[*]Apple would never give us BD movie capability without BD data too... or vice versa. History tells us this, from Apple's handling of CD and DVD.
Well yes... but what was your point? I'm not sure how this makes implementing BD impossible for them.
Apple does not normally give new hardware features to lower-end models or product lines first. The iMac is NOT top of the line - the Mac Pro IS.
Well you talked about taking a "fresh angle" on things a while ago and now you're trotting out "It can't be done that way because it wasn't done that way before"? Would you like to withdraw that point?
Either way, the mac pro arguably has a good reason to have BD in it already (assuming we're looking at things from the "fresh angle" of doing things like they've always been done). Also the new 27" very high resolution screen is clearly a big change to the imac line, therefore if we're looking at things from some kind of, I don't know... fresh angle... it would arguably be a great time to break with the old "fresh angle" and add something to the consumer platform first.
Blu-Ray Movie licensing is still onerous, and is something Apple doesn't like having to deal with. The restrictions Apple would have to implement to get Blu-Ray playback to work properly are against Apple's philosophy, for one thing.
Oh you're talking about the film DRM and HDCP stuff that we've already established that Apple are already doing? Again, I'll let you withdraw that point if you like.
DRM in general is not the issue. DRM of Blu-ray is the issue. The licensing terms of Blu-ray Disc playback are far more intrusive in the OS than any other form of DRM. For example, when you insert a DVD there is a DRM check only once - when the disc is inserted. With Blu-ray, that checking is done every few seconds. With DVDs the content is decrypted as it's read from the disc and then no more is needed. With Blu-ray, decrypted content cannot exist anywhere where the user has access to it (e.g., RAM, hard drive, video-out lines, etc.). This requires lots of resources at the kernel level of the OS and was incorporated into the Blu-ray standard at the insistence of studios because of how easily DVD protection was circumvented. This comes from the studios, no one else.
Again, it's not about DRM in general - it's about Blu-ray DRM.
Someone needs to grab the studios by the neck and slap them silly. Their Blu-ray DRM has already been defeated, so insisting that computers have it is really pointless. Until they relax those requirements, I doubt we see native Blu-ray support for OS X anytime soon. And I'll continue to rip my Blu-ray discs for playback on my Mac with Plex.
I would stop complaining about Blu-ray if Apple would just come out and say, "We don't believe in Blu-ray technology and do not plan to include it in any of our product lines ever". Fine, decision made, done.
However, they have made no such statement, only the vague "bag of hurt" comment Steve Jobs made ages ago which is more of a complaint than a statement. As I recall, he indicated that Apple wasn't ready to include "Blu-ray" *then* but implied that in the future they might.
The future is now and Apple needs to decide one way or the other.
However, they have made no such statement, only the vague "bag of hurt" comment Steve Jobs made ages ago which is more of a complaint than a statement. As I recall, he indicated that Apple wasn't ready to include "Blu-ray" *then* but implied that in the future they might.
The future is now and Apple needs to decide one way or the other.
Sorry, but I had to quote a friend of mine from this morning who is ordering an iMac 27" Quad-Core.
"About the whole Blu-Ray thing - Apple knows what the best technologies are, what's sticking around for the long-haul, and what users need and don't need. If Apple doesn't put it on there, then you gotta trust their knowledge on it. Their decisions are always the right ones, and that's why they've made so much money. If they say I don't need it, then I don't need it."
I snickered.
He's the biggest fan-boy I've ever met in my life.
"About the whole Blu-Ray thing - Apple knows what the best technologies are, what's sticking around for the long-haul, and what users need and don't need. If Apple doesn't put it on there, then you gotta trust their knowledge on it. Their decisions are always the right ones, and that's why they've made so much money. If they say I don't need it, then I don't need it."
I snickered.
He's the biggest fan-boy I've ever met in my life.
Your understanding is wrong. There are plenty of ways to rip BluRay disks on a Mac - I do it every day.
I've seen a few people make this comment, but I don't understand it. I know that a lot of people enjoy watching movies on their computer (I'm one of them, but I have several friends that do too). What's the issue with watching movies on a computer?
Edit: More to the point, if you want support then send feedback to Apple. I just have, and if enough people do then hopefully Apple will start paying attention.
The movies run about $40 a pop. You aren't even getting the full blu-ray experience watching a movie on a "15-30ish" screen. 1080p is best experienced on a 42" and above TV, sitting about 6'-8' away. You aren't getting this on a computer. The day I pay $40 for a movie to watch it on a computer screen, when i could rent it for $3.99 will never come.
The only thing I agree with in the Blu-ray on a computer concept, is the fact that everyone should have the option if they wanted it. Windows has the option, but a lot of people here don't want windows. There should be a Mac option.
Blu Ray movies are not $40. I'm not sure where you're looking at, but all the ones I've seen are under $30 and most are under $20.
What he said. Of course some DRM is inevitable and we have to live with it. That's not the issue here. The issue is the the more draconian forms of DRM, of the likes of CableLabs CableCard tuners and yes Blu-Ray.
Anything that requires an OS to create a fully protected path is getting too deep and starting to thread into dangerous territory. So yes I completely understand Apple's hesitance to go down that road.
If I have to choose between the ability to play BD movies on my computer and an open and stable MacOS - guess what.. BD playback loses every time.
WRONG. The smaller the screen the closer you need to sit - so big screens don't mean jack when you consider most people have their monitors on a desk (I.e. pretty damn close). So it's actually perfectly acceptable to watch BRs on a computer screen, esp the new 1080p ones in the new iMacs.
If YOU don't want to watch them on your computer, fine - but don't try to give us that rubbish of HD content should only be viewed on big screens, because it's nonsense.
Well I feel for the people wanting blu-ray in their mac.
We are a dell house and the laptops and boxes all have blu-ray.
To us it is a welcomed addition as I can buy 1 version of the movie which can be played in any room on any TV or computer.
Having it on the laptops is great. My son uses his laptop as his bluray player in his apartment on his 1080p plasma or on the train when he comes home from school.
As others said, sometimes you just want to watch a movie on the computer. A 21, 24, or 27 inch screen is plenty big enough to enjoy a blue ray on,
Bag of hurt, why that is I am not sure, other than your Steve said it. I am sure if he said it was a box of roses many of the same opinions would be applauding bluray. Perhaps Apple feels giving their customers more choices may confuse them,
In the end mac uses are missing out on taking advange of their displays.
We are a dell house and the laptops and boxes all have blu-ray.
To us it is a welcomed addition as I can buy 1 version of the movie which can be played in any room on any TV or computer.
Having it on the laptops is great. My son uses his laptop as his bluray player in his apartment on his 1080p plasma or on the train when he comes home from school.
As others said, sometimes you just want to watch a movie on the computer. A 21, 24, or 27 inch screen is plenty big enough to enjoy a blue ray on,
Bag of hurt, why that is I am not sure, other than your Steve said it. I am sure if he said it was a box of roses many of the same opinions would be applauding bluray. Perhaps Apple feels giving their customers more choices may confuse them,
In the end mac uses are missing out on taking advange of their displays.
Wrong 1080p was for 50" (elite sets) and above based on resoultion of the video processors. 42" and below were not intended to be 1080p but their was an opportunity for manufacturers to sell more sets while offering different price points across the different sizes of screens. Surely win for consumers who wanted 1080p for smaller sets and a huge win for resellers and manufacturers to be able to have a small premium for the higher resolution.
Who is paying $40 for a movie? obviously lousy shoppers. There are so many very good deals on the web and in stores, many at or below dvd prices. The most expensive blu ray movie I have purchased has been under $25.
I’m sure you felt the same way in 1999 when DVD was introduced to the iMac G3 line with its 15” CRT monitor, correct?
Why? Because of DRM? It's completely acceptable to want to add protection!! It's Apple being difficult, not Hollywood.
If you look at it logically, it probably boils down to two things:
- Want to push Apple's own download service
- Make as much money per SKU as possible (ala ipod's actual manufacturing cost vs cost to the end user!)
I don't mind companies making money, but trying to screw every last penny out of your customers, and trying to make their decisions for them is not on.
I hope Google's OS gives OSX a run for its money - Apple have got too big-headed and greedy.
You make very good counter-points. However, that doesn't change my opinion about Blu-Ray... I'm only interested in it for data storage purposes. I'd much rather Apple included BD-Data only NOW, since I'd never use the movie functionality. It seems like an odd choice, but it'll at least make some people happy, right?
Why bother, many complain the about the DRM, some about the cost of the hardware, and some about the cost of the media.
I haven't bothered ripping blurays, the hardware about $125 more and the media can be found at reasonable prices.
If you want to rip to make precious "back ups", sure I can see the pain in the ass with that.
if you want to watch a movie on a 27 inch screen popping in a bluray with all its DRM crap surely can't be that hard to incorporate for the users.
I am off to watch Transformers bluray on my bag of hurt XPS while my exhaust system gets fixed, enjoy
Some of us also like to rip movies for the Media servers to have instant choice of movies at our fingertips.. Simultaneously playable in multiple rooms.. While you shuffle around your optical disks like it's 1994.
Good luck with that. PowerDVD on Windows is such a great and stable product.. Last I tried it, it couldn't get through a HD movie without freezing or major audio issues. Maybe it was my fault for not investing $3000 in "Vista Bluray" compatible hardware.. or the stars weren't aligned properly, I don't know.
Because he apparently has no idea why Jobs is opposed to Blu-ray support.
Because then you might understand what Jobs is opposed to Blu-ray support. You don't have to agree with it, but surely you can see Apple's point, considering that Blu-ray software has to be included in the kernel.