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JGoodish

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2013
21
4
I have both the ATT and SIM-free iPhone 7, and have tested them side-by-side over the past couple of days.

Spoiler alert: There doesn't appear to be a material difference between the phones with respect to overall performance, signal strength, LTE speed, or battery life.

One difference that seemed consistent was the SIM-free phone's propensity to switch from fringe LTE to 4G, and similarly from 4G to EDGE. I assume in these cases it is switching RF bands. It definitely prefers a "stronger" signal, which may be good for voice, but in my testing was often bad for data. The weak LTE signal which the ATT phone clung to consistently (and expectedly) outperformed the stronger 4G signal of the SIM-free in data speed tests. This behavior didn't appear in all weak-signal areas, but appeared often enough to note.

With respect to LTE speed, I suspect that the lab tests, while perhaps accurate, are practically meaningless in real-world use. There are many variables involved with data performance, most of which are outside the control of the phone. In my unscientific but somewhat controlled tests, both phones performed nearly identically with throughput in all signal areas and on various LTE bands. The SIM-free phone did seem to consistently generate lower ping times, but this difference doesn't appear noticeable in real-world use. The affinity of the SIM-free phone for stronger but slower HSPA+ bands is noticeable, though perhaps that's a fair trade-off for better voice quality. I have received repeated complaints from voice callers about distorted or sketchy voice in weak-signal areas with the ATT phone, something unusual with my previous iPhone 5s. I don't yet have enough data to determine whether the SIM-free performs differently in this regard.

As for other differences, the screen on the SIM-free is slightly warmer than the ATT phone, though the latter appears to have a slight pinkish cast to it. This difference is more noticeable in low light, but it is not drastic and likely would not be detectable apart from a side by side comparison. In any case, I suspect that screen quality has more to do with build inventory than chipsets.


JKG
 
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MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
My experience today

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...t-connect-to-4g.1997617/page-26#post-23766210

I'm returning my 7 as it performed so badly compared to my 6S. I can handle slower speeds etc, but not connecting in the same places where the 6S does is not acceptable for me.
[doublepost=1477238877][/doublepost]
I have both the ATT and SIM-free iPhone 7, and have tested them side-by-side over the past couple of days.

Spoiler alert: There doesn't appear to be a material difference between the phones with respect to overall performance, signal strength, LTE speed, or battery life.

One difference that seemed consistent was the SIM-free phone's propensity to switch from fringe LTE to 4G, and similarly from 4G to EDGE. I assume in these cases it is switching RF bands. It definitely prefers a "stronger" signal, which may be good for voice, but in my testing was often bad for data. The weak LTE signal which the ATT phone clung to consistently (and expectedly) outperformed the stronger 4G signal of the SIM-free in data speed tests. This behavior didn't appear in all weak-signal areas, but appeared often enough to note.

With respect to LTE speed, I suspect that the lab tests, while perhaps accurate, are practically meaningless in real-world use. There are many variables involved with data performance, most of which are outside the control of the phone. In my unscientific but somewhat controlled tests, both phones performed nearly identically with throughput in all signal areas and on various LTE bands. The SIM-free phone did seem to consistently generate lower ping times, but this difference doesn't appear noticeable in real-world use. The affinity of the SIM-free phone for stronger but slower HSPA+ bands is noticeable, though perhaps that's a fair trade-off for better voice quality. I have received repeated complaints from voice callers about distorted or sketchy voice in weak-signal areas with the ATT phone, something unusual with my previous iPhone 5s. I don't yet have enough data to determine whether the SIM-free performs differently in this regard.

As for other differences, the screen on the SIM-free is slightly warmer than the ATT phone, though the latter appears to have a slight pinkish cast to it. This difference is more noticeable in low light, but it is not drastic and likely would not be detectable apart from a side by side comparison. In any case, I suspect that screen quality has more to do with build inventory than chipsets.


JKG

My only suggestion is find a place with poor reception.

I was of the same opinion as you until I went to a big park in London today, the difference for me, comparing to the 6S plus was light and day, intel modem could not even connect while the 6S plus got one bar 4G. And since we cannot get the non intel in U.K. , leaves me little choice but to go back to the 6S which has great performance
 

thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Oct 1, 2007
16,144
17,057
My experience today

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...t-connect-to-4g.1997617/page-26#post-23766210

I'm returning my 7 as it performed so badly compared to my 6S. I can handle slower speeds etc, but not connecting in the same places where the 6S does is not acceptable for me.
[doublepost=1477238877][/doublepost]

My only suggestion is find a place with poor reception.

I was of the same opinion as you until I went to a big park in London today, the difference for me, comparing to the 6S plus was light and day, intel modem could not even connect while the 6S plus got one bar 4G. And since we cannot get the non intel in U.K. , leaves me little choice but to go back to the 6S which has great performance

Maybe try an exchange, to be certain it isn't just that unit?
 

touchstoned

macrumors regular
Apr 4, 2015
173
141
Hermosa Beach, CA
This battery life argument is a red herring meant to throw you off an actual issue: the poor performance of the XMM7360. Battery life is so far removed from modem performance that they are basically unconnected, there are many other parts on the phone that use far more power. You could have a completely power-loss free modem (impossible, but for the sake of argument) and it would have a negligible effect on the phones battery life. You would have to have the modem operating constantly (perhaps transferring multi-GB files in a loop for hours) to have the modem significantly effect the battery life. You would go over your data plan fully utilizing the modem, intel or otherwise, in minutes. The modem is used sparingly because the networks want to minimize traffic, thus it does not significantly effect battery life!

To the people claiming their 17xx iPhones are getting "better battery life"... you are imagining things. Modems don't have a significant effect on battery life in modern smartphones, far more important is the screen and SoC efficiency. Also, there is zero independent testing to verify such an increase in battery life as opposed to the numerous tests that have shown the intel modem to be inferior.The whole argument is purely conjecture based on the subjective experience of a few people who have both phones. I also have a 17xx iPhone. The battery life is better than my 6S, but the reception west of PCH is significantly worse. I'd say on average, it's about a 1 bar loss of signal across the board... but there are areas west of highland ave I no longer get any reception at all.

Hopefully the ridiculous idea that 17xx phones somehow get better battery life on a second tier CAT10 intel modem manufactured on a 4 year old 28nm process (vs the 14nm modern QC equivalent) can be discarded for more sane explanations (normal differences in SoC and battery life by device). Why the hell would it get better battery life on a process that is scientifically proven to require more voltage? It's literally impossible for the QC 14nm part to be worse than the 28nm part. It's been proven to be the opposite (superior in every metric).
 

kevinkyoo

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2016
618
1,949
Agreed. If you don't want to have to deal with exchanging, or don't have the option to, that's fine. But spreading misinformation about battery life and performance in regard to the Intel-based phones is horrible for anyone else outside of MacRumors reading into their phones. It's grasping straws and trying to reach for anything to direct a false narrative.
 
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metsjetsfan

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2011
1,405
246
Keep in mind a new phone means reindexing, which destroys battery time the first day or two.
this is an ios6 and earlier thing. indexing is prob an hour to a few hours these days depending on how much stuff you have on your phone. otherwise Its just an excuse people say to convince themselves battery will get better
 

MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
Maybe try an exchange, to be certain it isn't just that unit?

To be honest unless you hit bad reception areas you will never notice there is an issue.

Though sensible advice, though I doubt they will have a 256 JB plus for an exchange in store
 

JGoodish

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2013
21
4
My only suggestion is find a place with poor reception.

I was of the same opinion as you until I went to a big park in London today, the difference for me, comparing to the 6S plus was light and day, intel modem could not even connect while the 6S plus got one bar 4G. And since we cannot get the non intel in U.K. , leaves me little choice but to go back to the 6S which has great performance

My tests were conducted in multiple areas with poor reception, including borderline "No Service" areas.

In addition, I wasn't assessing based on "bars" or "dots," but rather reported signal strength from field test mode. Neither of the iPhone 7 models demonstrated a difference in that regard.

Attempting to assess the Intel modem by comparing an iPhone 7 to a different generation iPhone results in an invalid conclusion, in my opinion. There are too many other potential differences in that scenario, including antennas and antenna placement. I am still not convinced that the iPhone 7 (either version) achieves RF performance equivalent to my 5s, but I suspect that other factors play a greater role than the modem in any such difference.

My iPhone 5s has a broken home button, but otherwise is still providing ~5 hours of battery life after 3 years of use. I'm not sure that the iPhone 7 improves on that enough to justify the difference in cost versus repairing the 5s.


JKG
 

thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Oct 1, 2007
16,144
17,057
To be honest unless you hit bad reception areas you will never notice there is an issue.

Though sensible advice, though I doubt they will have a 256 JB plus for an exchange in store

probably not :(

thats a unicorn device,


stinks how confusing this is for people, they goofed in that regard,

happy with my intel 7+ 128 MB
 

touchstoned

macrumors regular
Apr 4, 2015
173
141
Hermosa Beach, CA
To be honest unless you hit bad reception areas you will never notice there is an issue.

Though sensible advice, though I doubt they will have a 256 JB plus for an exchange in store
It's true that this may not be a big deal for a majority of iPhone 7 owners. For a few people, myself among them, who live in areas with large hills and spotty coverage... this is a huge problem. I now have areas where I can't receive a call or check my email, areas I park and used to have reception on my iPhone 6S. For me, it is a big issue to have this inferior modem.
 
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Daniel L

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2009
532
273
This battery life argument is a red herring meant to throw you off an actual issue: the poor performance of the XMM7360. Battery life is so far removed from modem performance that they are basically unconnected, there are many other parts on the phone that use far more power. You could have a completely power-loss free modem (impossible, but for the sake of argument) and it would have a negligible effect on the phones battery life. You would have to have the modem operating constantly (perhaps transferring multi-GB files in a loop for hours) to have the modem significantly effect the battery life. You would go over your data plan fully utilizing the modem, intel or otherwise, in minutes. The modem is used sparingly because the networks want to minimize traffic, thus it does not significantly effect battery life!

To the people claiming their 17xx iPhones are getting "better battery life"... you are imagining things. Modems don't have a significant effect on battery life in modern smartphones, far more important is the screen and SoC efficiency. Also, there is zero independent testing to verify such an increase in battery life as opposed to the numerous tests that have shown the intel modem to be inferior.The whole argument is purely conjecture based on the subjective experience of a few people who have both phones. I also have a 17xx iPhone. The battery life is better than my 6S, but the reception west of PCH is significantly worse. I'd say on average, it's about a 1 bar loss of signal across the board... but there are areas west of highland ave I no longer get any reception at all.

Hopefully the ridiculous idea that 17xx phones somehow get better battery life on a second tier CAT10 intel modem manufactured on a 4 year old 28nm process (vs the 14nm modern QC equivalent) can be discarded for more sane explanations (normal differences in SoC and battery life by device). Why the hell would it get better battery life on a process that is scientifically proven to require more voltage? It's literally impossible for the QC 14nm part to be worse than the 28nm part. It's been proven to be the opposite (superior in every metric).

The QC part is a 20nm part according to Anandtech. Their review also mentions the modem affecting battery life which would be contradictory to your statement.
Anandtech said:
Moving on to LTE battery life the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus both slip a bit, but remain impressive. I suspect that the 20nm Qualcomm modem here is not well-equipped to handle the endless stream of ads that is increasingly a part of most websites. As ads tend to stream in incredibly slowly, the standby power of the modem is a significant factor. Snapdragon 820 devices don’t see nearly the impact here that the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus as their modem is on 14LPP rather than 20SoC. The iPhone 7 remains above the S820 Galaxy S7, but the iPhone 7 Plus is fairly comparable to the iPhone 6s Plus in battery life on LTE.

Where do you see the Intel part manufactured as 28nm?
 
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JGoodish

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2013
21
4
seems like you did some homework here! Question: Both were accessing the ATT network?

Yes.

I'm typing this reply on the ATT phone, which has a weak 4G signal that occasionally flips between Edge and No Service. The SIM-free version right next to it also occasionally flips to No Service, but never moves off of Edge for data, no matter how many resets I do nor how many times I reorient it. As I mentioned, I've noticed similar behavior between the two handsets in other weak-signal areas. I'm not sure how much of the difference is due to software, but honestly I think we're splitting hairs at this point. Both versions are so close in performance that any minute difference isn't going to matter in practice.

It's difficult to get good data in the field with these types of tests since there are so many variables in play apart from the performance of the phone, but I've tried to control as many variables as possible in my evaluation. Even variations in battery life may have little to do with specific chipsets, and more to do with variations in the batteries themselves or usage patterns.

At this point, I have detected no meaningful differences between the two versions of the iPhone 7, apart from CDMA network compatibility.


JKG
 

MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
My tests were conducted in multiple areas with poor reception, including borderline "No Service" areas.

In addition, I wasn't assessing based on "bars" or "dots," but rather reported signal strength from field test mode. Neither of the iPhone 7 models demonstrated a difference in that regard.

Attempting to assess the Intel modem by comparing an iPhone 7 to a different generation iPhone results in an invalid conclusion, in my opinion. There are too many other potential differences in that scenario, including antennas and antenna placement. I am still not convinced that the iPhone 7 (either version) achieves RF performance equivalent to my 5s, but I suspect that other factors play a greater role than the modem in any such difference.

My iPhone 5s has a broken home button, but otherwise is still providing ~5 hours of battery life after 3 years of use. I'm not sure that the iPhone 7 improves on that enough to justify the difference in cost versus repairing the 5s.


JKG

Very good and thorough tests. respect.

Alas I don't have access to a qualcomm iPhone 7 as they are not available in the UK, so my only option is to compare it to the previous generation.

Though I'm not really concerned how the iPhone 7 qualcomm modem compares to the iPhone 7 intel, as this is an upgrade from the 6S, it must at least match the 6S or do better, so for my needs in choosing if the phone is an upgrade, a test against the 6S is actually more valid. If the iPhone 7 gets worse reception than my 6S that is a deal breaker, I consider reception to be the top criteria for a smartphone.
 

JGoodish

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2013
21
4
Very good and thorough tests. respect.

Alas I don't have access to a qualcomm iPhone 7 as they are not available in the UK, so my only option is to compare it to the previous generation.

Though I'm not really concerned how the iPhone 7 qualcomm modem compares to the iPhone 7 intel, as this is an upgrade from the 6S, it must at least match the 6S or do better, so for my needs in choosing if the phone is an upgrade, a test against the 6S is actually more valid. If the iPhone 7 gets worse reception than my 6S that is a deal breaker, I consider reception to be the top criteria for a smartphone.

I agree. I can't say for sure that the iPhone 7 has worse reception than my three year old iPhone 5s, but I also can't say that it's any better. Battery life is better, but it's not as good as the iPhone SE which is almost half the cost. If my 5s had a working home button, I'd probably stick with it for now; I may still opt to have it repaired.


JKG
 
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touchstoned

macrumors regular
Apr 4, 2015
173
141
Hermosa Beach, CA
Very good and thorough tests. respect.

Alas I don't have access to a qualcomm iPhone 7 as they are not available in the UK, so my only option is to compare it to the previous generation.

Though I'm not really concerned how the iPhone 7 qualcomm modem compares to the iPhone 7 intel, as this is an upgrade from the 6S, it must at least match the 6S or do better, so for my needs in choosing if the phone is an upgrade, a test against the 6S is actually more valid. If the iPhone 7 gets worse reception than my 6S that is a deal breaker, I consider reception to be the top criteria for a smartphone.
The tests on cellular insight show the 6S is superior to the iPhone 7 XMM7360 . Take a look, they are quoted in my prior posts.
 
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swiftbmx

macrumors 6502
Aug 23, 2009
305
440
So has anyone been able to exchange their AT&T A17xx for a A16xx even though their device is on was bought through AT&T on Next? Just ran multiple speed tests between my 6S plus and 7 plus in an apartment that has a bad signal with only 2 bars of 4G. In all tests my 7 plus was 40-50% of the speed of the 6S plus. Both phones on AT&T sitting right next to each other. Always felt like something is wrong but this finally makes sense.
 
Last edited:

jmelrose

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2004
261
51
Orlando, FL
Does anyone have any direct experience with returning an ATT phone (I'm off contract), buying a Verizon phone, cancelling the Verizon plan and popping the ATT sim card into the Verizon model?

I guess the question comes down to, how difficult is it/what happens if i sign on with Verizon then cancel the Verizon plan immediately.

Side note, before people call me crazy for wanting to do such a thing: I have 2 months a summer where I would love to have the option to switch to Verizon because of where I work in the summer. I live in Florida but the northern areas of Wisconsin where I work the ATT signal is almost non-existent and I would love to be able to take advantage of a couple of months of Verizon access. My understanding is they don't require a contract, and I would be "bringing my own device" anyway....

Any insights or input on if this is workable or experience you care to share, please do so. My window for making this decision closes very soon.
 

touchstoned

macrumors regular
Apr 4, 2015
173
141
Hermosa Beach, CA
I tried to get a replacement and was told they are aware of the issue but because my phone was ordered through AT&T they asked that I go through customer retention and then go to the ATT store to get a refund, which sucks but is what I will have to do. The phone is defective in its current form, I did not pay $700 to get worse reception. They did say they would work with me and ATT on extending the warranty and return policy if that was what was necessary to get a refund.
[doublepost=1477276414][/doublepost]
So has anyone been able to exchange their AT&T A17xx for a A16xx even though their device is on was bought through AT&T on Next? Just ran multiple speed tests between my 6S plus and 7 plus in an apartment that has a bad signal with only 2 bars of 4G. In all tests my 7 plus was 40-50% of the speed of the 6S plus. Both phones on AT&T sitting right next to each other. Always felt like something is wrong but this finally makes sense.
I think when a site like anandtech or the verge gets a hold of this story and investigates, it's going to look really bad. From what I've seen, the iPhone 7 A17xx series has worse 4G reception than my mom's iPhone 5C and significantly worse than my old 6S. My father is currently in the florida keys on a retirement vacation, which he goes on every year, and this year after he got his 7 he cannot receive calls at his house at all. He turned on wifi calling as a "solution" but IMO that's not a real solution because it means the phone is no longer a cell phone (just some kind of wireless VoIP phone or something).

The problem is real for anyone who lives in an area with spotty reception, but it will become more and more apparent to people as time goes by and they realize the issue isn't the environment or them... it's the phone.
 

touchstoned

macrumors regular
Apr 4, 2015
173
141
Hermosa Beach, CA
The QC part is a 20nm part according to Anandtech. Their review also mentions the modem affecting battery life which would be contradictory to your statement.

Where do you see the Intel part manufactured as 28nm?
Anandtech is referring to Apple's use of a 3rd party modem (instead of an integrated solution). That choice does decrease LTE battery life significantly, but it's not as if the type of modem actually makes the difference, it's just the fact that unlike Samsung or Mediatek, Apple doesn't appear to have the ability to integrate their own modem into the SoC. This results in a modem that has to be connected via fan out and thus has much more latency and uses much more power than an integrated modem manufactured on the same process and on the same die.


Right now Apple is the only big party that hasn't developed their own 4G modem to integrate, and it's clearly causing issues with performance. Right now Samsung Galaxy phones are vastly superior in every metric in terms of 4G LTE and 3G HSPA reception. That's why anandtech is referring (misleadingly) to the modem having an effect one battery life.


As far as it being 20nm, the MDM94635M is 20nm and is used in the iPhone 6s. The MDM94645M is a newer version of 20nm and used on the iPhone 7. Both have been proven to have superior reception and throughput to the intel XMM7360, which is well known to be manufactured on 28nm TSMC because intel wasn't capable of porting its own 14nm process for anybody else.


BTW the 20nm process is also shown to have superior power usage characteristics to 28nm, just not as good as 14nm. Why do you think 28nm, which is scientifically proven to require more voltage to run the same frequencies, would somehow require less power? How does that make sense?
 
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airjay75

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2014
207
168
Well, any evidence that 10.1 improves the modem(s)?

Same thought crossed my mind. Of course, I wasn't really having any problems in the first place. I did notice that the modem firmware on my Intel iPhone 7 went from 1.00.05 (if I am remembering correctly) to 1.01.13 after installing iOS 10.1. Who knows whether that means anything. If Apple did anything in 10.1 to the Intel modem to tweak it, I doubt they would admit it because that would be an admission that there was any problem in the first place.
[doublepost=1477339298][/doublepost]
Software cannot fix **** hardware unfortunately. Swap for a QC phone or live with shame of owning an inferior iphone until end of time. :)

But do we know whether the alleged difference in speeds observed by Cellular Insights (still the only mildly scientific test I've seen performed by anyone) is attributable to the hardware or to the software? The Qualcomm versions were having problems keeping LTE signals and that was fixed by a software update.
 
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nmeed

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2014
543
214
I just ordered the QC sim-free version after doing a lot of reading about which version is better, even though my gut told me to get the Intel version to be honest. However, after reading the above post I just realized the phones that have been having all the reception issues are the QC versions whereas nobody seems to be really complaining about the Intel versions. Sure, the QC version is the "better" chip, but that's the version Apple had to push an update for to specifically fix it's issues, which Apple doesn't really tend to do.
 
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