Other Did Apple kill the goose that laid the golden eggs?

[0014]

I think what Akash.nu was referring to is that Apple’s _direct_ competition is Samsung, Huawei smart phones are not even available in North America, but largely popular in the Chinese market.

I think Huawei phones are becoming more and more popular all over the globe, except the US. They certainly seem to be the phone of choice for the masses where I work in the Middle East and they are becoming very popular in the UK and Mainland Europe.

 

[MultiMan]

I think what Akash.nu was referring to is that Apple’s _direct_ competition is Samsung, Huawei smart phones are not even available in North America, but largely popular in the Chinese market.

I switched from Apple to Huawei 2 years ago and they walked all over Apple recently. Bought 3 of their phones already, each one with new and exciting features. On my way with my fourth, Huawei Mate 20 Pro. Both P20 Pro and Mate 20 Pro offer more than any iPhone, and for less money.

Apple need someone that knows what people want before they understand it themselves and have the ability to excite people into thinking it's the most wonderful thing ever created. You know, like Steve used to do. I bought Apple things since 1977 mostly due to him but the Apple shine has waned since 2-3 years or so.

In my view, Apple has been offering less for more since a good while. Why take away TouchID instead of just adding FaceID? Major reason I don't want the x-series. Huawei Mate 20 pro have both their variant of 3D FaceID like Apples (with dot-projector and the whole shebang) but also introduced a fingerprint reader beneath the screen. Everyone satisfied.

I live in Sweden, a mature market which at least used to be very iPhone centric. In Sweden the Xr is priced almost the same as Mate 20 Pro, despite Mate 20 Pro wins in basically all arenas by a large margin except CPU, where it's still more than good enough. Very easy choice. Nothing budget about Apples Xr pricing in markets outside of the USA.

No Steve "shine" anymore during keynotes (and I've seen most of them, and the last one was very tired), removing ports and functions many people want, yet raising prices continually. Of course Apple feel the need to obfuscate iPhones sold going forward, they know whats happening, but doesn't have the people to guide them anymore.

Edit: And I never liked Samsung, so they weren't an option. Went to Huawei mainly due to hardware features (like IR blaster, fingerprint scanner), EMUI (iOS-like), battery life (major Huawei focus), cameras and price.

 

[44267547]

I think Huawei phones are becoming more and more popular all over the globe, except the US.

But that’s the point, in the U.S, Samsung is Apple’s main competitor in the smart phone era, not Huawei. That may be Huawei is popular elsewhere, but it doesn’t equate to the dominance Samsung has here in North America. _If_ Huawei eventually transitions into the States, then they can have impact more on Other Android operating devices with more competition, but with iOS being so dominant, that’s what’s sells the iPhone, not the hardware. The biggest factor that can hurt Apple are phones that are offering cheaper prices for similar features.

 

[d5aqoëp]

This is just the beginning. Apple has really lost it when it comes to their pricing game. Must be the newly hired hipster turned MBAs.

Indian story is a total doom especially when Apple devices have 30-40% markup compared to US prices.
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-new...medium=referral&utm_campaign=toiweb_hptopnews

Yes.. iPhone XR 64GB starts from $1058 in India.

 

[MultiMan]

This is just the beginning. Apple has really lost it when it comes to their pricing game. Must be the newly hired hipster turned MBAs.

Indian story is a total doom especially when Apple devices have 30-40% markup compared to US prices.
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-new...medium=referral&utm_campaign=toiweb_hptopnews

Yes.. iPhone XR 64GB starts from $1058 in India.

$1050 in Sweden. I fear the worst. Xs Max 512 at $2030, incredible.

 

[zx128k]

This is just the beginning. Apple has really lost it when it comes to their pricing game. Must be the newly hired hipster turned MBAs.

Indian story is a total doom especially when Apple devices have 30-40% markup compared to US prices.
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-new...medium=referral&utm_campaign=toiweb_hptopnews

Yes.. iPhone XR 64GB starts from $1058 in India.

They know rich people will buy it though.

What's the point in them even trying to compete on price with other manufacturers like Xiaomi that sell in India? They are so much cheaper they couldn't even get near them.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think we just have to accept that smartphone innovation is slowing and better screens, faster processors, slightly better cameras and stainless steel is not enough of a pull when older phones are working just fine. The excitement isn’t what it used to be therefore companies are pushing prices up to cover the holes and record decent profits in order to keep shareholders and marketeers happy.

It’s not the beginning of the end but I think we’ll see a huge change of strategy in the coming years.

 

[d5aqoëp]

I think we just have to accept that smartphone innovation is slowing and better screens, faster processors, slightly better cameras and stainless steel is not enough of a pull when older phones are working just fine. The excitement isn’t what it used to be therefore companies are pushing prices up to cover the holes and record decent profits in order to keep shareholders and marketeers happy.

It’s not the beginning of the end but I think we’ll see a huge change of strategy in the coming years.

Absolutely. This Apple’s short term strategy is destined to fail. They might go the Vertu way and you know how that fared?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Absolutely. This Apple’s short term strategy is destined to fail. They might go the Vertu way and you know how that fared?

Vertu the luxury smartphone with a £3k price tag running a rubbish version of Android that hardly anybody bought apart from certain people on Instagram?

 

[akash.nu]

@MultiMan and @0014 I’d be sceptical about Chinese manufacturers to be honest.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

 

[Shanghaichica]

But that’s the point, in the U.S, Samsung is Apple’s main competitor in the smart phone era, not Huawei. That may be Huawei is popular elsewhere, but it doesn’t equate to the dominance Samsung has here in North America. _If_ Huawei eventually transitions into the States, then they can have impact more on Other Android operating devices with more competition, but with iOS being so dominant, that’s what’s sells the iPhone, not the hardware. The biggest factor that can hurt Apple are phones that are offering cheaper prices for similar features.

Samsung are still Apple’s biggest competition in the UK too. Huawei are becoming more popular but Samsung still sell a lot more handsets here for now.

 

[uwdude]

Apple could have ridden the iPhone gravy train for probably a few more years if they had kept the pricing back to $699+ for the flagship models. They have chosen to go the luxury fashion brand route though, we'll see how that works out.

 

[craigio85]

In my view, Apple has been offering less for more since a good while. Why take away TouchID instead of just adding FaceID? Major reason I don't want the x-series. Huawei Mate 20 pro have both their variant of 3D FaceID like Apples (with dot-projector and the whole shebang) but also introduced a fingerprint reader beneath the screen. Everyone satisfied.

Regarding touchID, you can flip the question the other way around. Why go to the trouble of finding a way to retain touchID when FaceID replaces its functionality and makes it obsolete? Keeping both would be enormously expensive and unnecessary.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Regarding touchID, you can flip the question the other way around. Why go to the trouble of finding a way to retain touchID when FaceID replaces its functionality and makes it obsolete? Keeping both would be enormously expensive and unnecessary.

Not if the R&D, tooling and supply chain are all in place. A company Apples size have had no issues with multiple models for years.

 

[ftaok]

Not if the R&D, tooling and supply chain are all in place. A company Apples size have had no issues with multiple models for years.

I think Craig is saying why go through the trouble of having both FaceID and TouchID on the same phone when FaceID works fine.

 

[MultiMan]

Regarding touchID, you can flip the question the other way around. Why go to the trouble of finding a way to retain touchID when FaceID replaces its functionality and makes it obsolete? Keeping both would be enormously expensive and unnecessary.

1. Mate 20 Pro cost almost the same (within $50) of the cheapest iPhone Xr yet have both. Why should I care as a customer what it cost them to implement it as long as the prices are ok? I thought Apple were a premium product company, highly technically skilled and with access to the best supply chains?
Less is not more when you need the functionality. Apple have become deaf to their customers needs. People not using the extra functions won't suffer and prices don't have to increase as the competition has shown time and time again. Most phone users aren't share holders, so the marginally decreased margins (maybe) is of no concern, and shouldn't be.

2. In Sweden we have this wonderful thing called BankID, a little program that acts as my identification card on all things internet, including banks, governmental stuff, shopping and so on. To use it one just verifies with a code, fingerprint or face ID (only Apple faceID solution allowed atm, mate 20 Pro pending).
Due to this i very often have my phone laying flat tucked under my desktop screen and just put my finger on the reader to identify myself when filing my taxes, ordering prescription drugs or shopping, as some examples. In that position Apples FaceID in the phones just doesn't work, so no option. To have to pick up the phone 30-40 times a day just to identify myself and do nothing more with it is not an option. Ergo, I want a front facing fingerprint reader on my phones.
In my cold climate we often have balaclavas or some other stuff covering the face in the winter and faceID doesn't agree with that either. Some friends also had problems with polarizing sun glasses (with the X, don't know how Xs handles that).

 

[pika2000]

This is the first year ever that iPhones haven't gone out stock within hours after the pre-orders started. But maybe it wasn’t that iPhones didn’t sell well, maybe it was that Apple was not selling iPhones anymore.

The new models may share the same name, and OS, but are in so many ways different. Different displays, different focus(maybe the first time phones are not thinner and lighter), different authentication l(FaceID vs TouchID), different UX(swipe up vs button), stagnant design, no longer selling last uear’s model, different marketing(for the first time we have excsessive high-end and low-end), different release dates, and most of all different price points.

In many ways 8+ was the last of the iPhones.

Apple seems to be in confusion, making consumers confused and sales numbers show that. They are still doing well in profit, but stock market noticed that something is not going well with the Goose.

Apple knows they cannot sell just phones. Heck, even Samsung realizes that as well. Smartphones have been commoditized by the Chinese OEMs, where you can get phones with flagship spec for just $300. Apple know this well, thus in the short term, they are raising their ASP.

Samsung is focusing on its components arms. I mean they are selling panels and chips to everyone, and business is great there.

Apple doesn't have that, so Apple has been focusing on services. We can see Apple's revenue on services have been increasing, and Apple is starting to drop hardware bit by bit (Cinema display, Airport, iPod). Apple will still be making Macs and iPhones for a while, but the shift of focus is there.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think Craig is saying why go through the trouble of having both FaceID and TouchID on the same phone when FaceID works fine.

Or indeed vice versa I would say.

 

[0014]

@MultiMan and @0014 I’d be sceptical about Chinese manufacturers to be honest.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

Oh I don’t trust them. But I live by the mantra of TNF anyway, lol.

 

[craigio85]

1. Mate 20 Pro cost almost the same (within $50) of the cheapest iPhone Xr yet have both. Why should I care as a customer what it cost them to implement it as long as the prices are ok? I thought Apple were a premium product company, highly technically skilled and with access to the best supply chains?
Less is not more when you need the functionality. Apple have become deaf to their customers needs. People not using the extra functions won't suffer and prices don't have to increase as the competition has shown time and time again. Most phone users aren't share holders, so the marginally decreased margins (maybe) is of no concern, and shouldn't be.

2. In Sweden we have this wonderful thing called BankID, a little program that acts as my identification card on all things internet, including banks, governmental stuff, shopping and so on. To use it one just verifies with a code, fingerprint or face ID (only Apple faceID solution allowed atm, mate 20 Pro pending).
Due to this i very often have my phone laying flat tucked under my desktop screen and just put my finger on the reader to identify myself when filing my taxes, ordering prescription drugs or shopping, as some examples. In that position Apples FaceID in the phones just doesn't work, so no option. To have to pick up the phone 30-40 times a day just to identify myself and do nothing more with it is not an option. Ergo, I want a front facing fingerprint reader on my phones.
In my cold climate we often have balaclavas or some other stuff covering the face in the winter and faceID doesn't agree with that either. Some friends also had problems with polarizing sun glasses (with the X, don't know how Xs handles that).

I don’t think Apple are deaf to customer needs and I don’t think they’ve ever been a company that strives to provide more, more, more. In the case of touchID and FaceID, they’ve rightly identified that only a small minority of customers would object to FaceID to the extent that they’d want touchID retained. They’ve chosen who they’re catering to.

Also, I was surprised with the range FaceID has when the device is laid flat on a desk. My phone sits to my side and will unlock just by looking at it.
[doublepost=1541664231][/doublepost]

Or indeed vice versa I would say.

Which is a fair point. But Apple made the choice. TouchID as it existed meant the all-front screen wasn’t possible. So either way they had to develop a solution that would work. After using both, I know which I prefer - both have advantages and disadvantages but FaceID is a superior solution for me and, as Apple evidently felt was the case, for the larger chunk of their target market.

 

[kwk1]

I have bought an iPhone each year on launch day since the iPhone 3g. This year I only did it to get the larger screen of the Max. Next year I plan to skip. A better camera at this point doesn't really warrant and upgrade. When we get 5g (and its available in my area) or the notch is removed I'm in. I might also change my mind if the phone came in black not that I hate Space Gray or you can even see much of it when the phone has a case. The new iPad's make me wish we had something like and iPhone 5 design again though.

I think you are exactly the type of customer Apple is banking on. Next year they will remove the notch and you'll upgrade. The following year, 5g will be in, and you'll upgrade. The following year which will be 3 years later, camera tech will be so much better you'll upgrade. Next, new battery tech will give amazing battery life and, yeah, you'll upgrade.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I don’t think Apple are deaf to customer needs and I don’t think they’ve ever been a company that strives to provide more, more, more. In the case of touchID and FaceID, they’ve rightly identified that only a small minority of customers would object to FaceID to the extent that they’d want touchID retained. They’ve chosen who they’re catering to.

Also, I was surprised with the range FaceID has when the device is laid flat on a desk. My phone sits to my side and will unlock just by looking at it.
[doublepost=1541664231][/doublepost]
Which is a fair point. But Apple made the choice. TouchID as it existed meant the all-front screen wasn’t possible. So either way they had to develop a solution that would work. After using both, I know which I prefer - both have advantages and disadvantages but FaceID is a superior solution for me and, as Apple evidently felt was the case, for the larger chunk of their target market.

They could have put Touch ID on the back of the phone until it was ready to be placed under the display which it is ready now.

 

[kwk1]

Apple knows they cannot sell just phones. Heck, even Samsung realizes that as well. Smartphones have been commoditized by the Chinese OEMs, where you can get phones with flagship spec for just $300. Apple know this well, thus in the short term, they are raising their ASP.

Samsung is focusing on its components arms. I mean they are selling panels and chips to everyone, and business is great there.

Apple doesn't have that, so Apple has been focusing on services. We can see Apple's revenue on services have been increasing, and Apple is starting to drop hardware bit by bit (Cinema display, Airport, iPod). Apple will still be making Macs and iPhones for a while, but the shift of focus is there.

This is very true. Apple is buying up a lot of service/tech companies.
When hardware sales go down, money is in subscription services.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Which is a fair point. But Apple made the choice. TouchID as it existed meant the all-front screen wasn’t possible. So either way they had to develop a solution that would work. After using both, I know which I prefer - both have advantages and disadvantages but FaceID is a superior solution for me and, as Apple evidently felt was the case, for the larger chunk of their target market.

For me it’s just two options for unlocking the device. Having compared both I found TouchID to be slightly quicker and more reliable but both get the job done.

I’m not sure if FaceID covers more of their market than TouchID as I’ve not seen any figures but at a guess I would say there are perhaps more iPhones users out there with TouchID on their iPhones. I know I see more older devices at this point in time where I am and it’s known that people are keeping phones longer these days.

 

[ftaok]

I’m not sure if FaceID covers more of their market than TouchID as I’ve not seen any figures but at a guess I would say there are perhaps more iPhones users out there with TouchID on their iPhones. I know I see more older devices at this point in time where I am and it’s known that people are keeping phones longer these days.

Of course there are more TouchID iPhones than FaceID iPhones in use. FaceID has only been around for a little over a year. TouchID has been around since the 5S.

It would be like saying that standard pass-code iPhones outnumber TouchID iPhones in the wild about two months after the iPhone 6 was realeased. It takes time.

It'll probably be 2 to 3 years before FaceID outnumbers TouchID, assuming flat sales and a 4 year replacement cycle.