Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.
Welcome to the forum KayPee.

Your iMac display panel is not 10-bit, unfortunately. The late 2015 and later are 10-bit panels.
PaulD-UK can correct me, if I am mistaken.
@Regulus67 Thank you so much for the warm welcome and clarification!

That makes things much clearer then. I wasn't aware that the late-2014 wasn't 10-bit. I'm happy with the display quality as it is currently on the iMac, so if that's 8-bit then all good!

However, I did read on this thread that although it's not a true 8-bit panel, the iMac does some magic to make it "appear" like 10-bit. Do you know if there's any truth in this? If so, would the set-up with the R1811 and one Thunderbolt 3 to DP1.4 cable support this? (Sorry if this is a silly question!)

Basically I want to maintain the same level of display quality that my iMac has currently, whatever that may be.

Also, a couple of additional questions if you don't mind:
  • Do you think the R1811 is still the best choice considering I don't need the two DP1.4 ports? Am I better off saving some money and going with the older R9A18? Cost is a factor but I don't mind spending a little extra for better quality and future-proofing.
  • How bad is the low brightness issue? I've seen posts about people installing additional boards to pump the brightness up. Do you think this is necessary? Currently, my iMac brightness is set to max during the day.
  • Do you have any recommendations for installing a FaceTime camera? i.e. where this would plug in?
Thanks so much :)
 
Last edited:
@KayPee
@Regulus67 is right. 10 bit-capable iMac displays were introduced in later generations of iMac.
For 10 bit colour it should be 1.07 billion of colours.
For 8 bit colour you can resolve only 16.7 millions of colours.

For the late 2014 Retina iMac Apple quotes:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina display with IPS technology;
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for millions of colors


And a screen panel database website says: Color Depth16.7M 100% sRGB
sRGB colour space is by definition only 8 bit.

Late 2014 iMac 5K panels are mostly LG LM270QQ1 SD(A2), but may also be A1 or A3.

Interestingly for the late 2015 iMac, Apple's Tech specs are the same:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina 5K display with IPS technology
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for millions of colors*


Only in 2017 does this change:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina 5K display
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for one billion colors
500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)


Late 2015 iMac 5K panels are LG LM270QQ1 SD(B1)
and late 2017 iMac 5K panels are LG LM270QQ1 SD(C1)
Later panels are D1-F1.

*The 2015 panel is actually capable of 10 bit P3 colour.
This Apple presentation confirms this, and explains why it matters:

The basic fact is that ALL the iMac 27" 5K panels are natively only 8 bit.
However after 2015 they are capable of showing 10 bits by using FRC, which use a temporal dithering method that combines successive colours in the same pixel to simulate the desired shade. a process of rapidly switching two 8 bit colours so the screen looks like 10 bits.

"I'm just not sure whether a R1811 board would allow me to achieve this over one cable. Some posts say that DP1.4 isn't sufficient to support 5K @ 60 with 10-bit over one cable. You need to use two ports, buy an expensive splitter and reflash the firmware. If this is the case, I'm better off saving the money and getting the older R9A18 board and getting 2 DP1.2 cables.
Other posts say that you can achieve 5K @ 60 with 10-bit over one Thunderbolt 3 to DP1.4 cable, which would be great."


DP 1.4, which is capable of @joevt's 6) HBR2 x4 with DSC at 12bpp can do 5K at 60Hz 10bpc.
So all the available boards in my list of 10 bit ones do 5K60 10bpc.
Except, as you say, the R9A19 V1.1, which only does 5K60 8bpc over a single cable.

For colour accuracy I personally think the R1811 V4 board is probably the best, because it has the most fully featured firmware, from the Taiwanese chipset manufacturer. It tells you the current bit depth it is working at.
Other boards appear to use firmware developed by the retail channel in China, and their boards are repurposed 4K 144Hz monitor boards.
However, they all seem to use the same Realtek RTD2718Q video controller chip.
So performance is dependant on firmware supplied, and only the R1811 and R9A18 have easily available firmware support.

One further factor. The LM270QQ1 A series screens can suffer from image retention issues.
There is an example from a a few posts back in this thread.
Later screens are far less likely to suffer from this, although the 2015 B1 screens can develop pink edge coloration.

Edit: "How bad is the low brightness issue?"
I think this is a non-issue.
It appears that 'low brightness' screens are re-glassed broken screens available from China, which have had their LEDs replaced or the wiring damaged in some way.
I don't know if this is the whole of the problem, but if you start out with a good screen, and are careful in the build process, these boards all give a good result.

The other problem is that non-retina iMac screen driver conversion boards available are much older designs, and have backlight CC boards incapable of driving iMac screens at full brightness.

The retina 5K iMac boards cost about 10 times as much, and don't have this problem.

Facetime cameras have to be USB. Several people in this thread have built conversions using various cameras, either from older 2009-2011 iMac (or Apple Thunderbolt Display) cameras.
Or from AliExpress 1080p or 4K ones.
This is an example.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: Regulus67
@KayPee
@Regulus67 is right. 10 bit-capable iMac displays were introduced in later generations of iMac.
For 10 bit colour it should be 1.07 billion of colours.
For 8 bit colour you can resolve only 16.7 millions of colours.

For the late 2014 Retina iMac Apple quotes:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina display with IPS technology;
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for millions of colors


And a screen panel database website says: Color Depth16.7M 100% sRGB
sRGB colour space is by definition only 8 bit.

Late 2014 iMac 5K panels are mostly LG LM270QQ1 SD(A2), but may also be A1 or A3.

Interestingly for the late 2015 iMac, Apple's Tech specs are the same:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina 5K display with IPS technology
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for millions of colors*


Only in 2017 does this change:
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) - Technical Specifications
Display
27-inch (diagonal) Retina 5K display
5120‑by‑2880 resolution with support for one billion colors
500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)


Late 2015 iMac 5K panels are mostly LG LM270QQ1 SD(B1)
and late 2017 iMac 5K panels are mostly LG LM270QQ1 SD(C1)
Later panels are D1-F1.

*The 2015 panel is actually capable of 10 bit P3 colour.
This Apple presentation confirms this, and explains why it matters:

The basic fact is that ALL the iMac 27" 5K panels are natively only 8 bit.
However after 2015 they are capable of showing 10 bits by using FRC, which use a temporal dithering method that combines successive colours in the same pixel to simulate the desired shade. a process of rapidly switching two 8 bit colours so the screen looks like 10 bits.

"I'm just not sure whether a R1811 board would allow me to achieve this over one cable. Some posts say that DP1.4 isn't sufficient to support 5K @ 60 with 10-bit over one cable. You need to use two ports, buy an expensive splitter and reflash the firmware. If this is the case, I'm better off saving the money and getting the older R9A18 board and getting 2 DP1.2 cables.
Other posts say that you can achieve 5K @ 60 with 10-bit over one Thunderbolt 3 to DP1.4 cable, which would be great."


DP 1.4, which is capable of @joevt's 6) HBR2 x4 with DSC at 12bpp can do 5K at 60Hz 10bpc.
So all the available boards in my list of 10 bit ones do 5K60 10bpc.
Except, as you say, the R9A19 V1.1, which only does 5K60 8bpc over a single cable.

For colour accuracy I personally think the R1811 V4 board is probably the best, because it has the most fully featured firmware, from the Taiwanese chipset manufacturer. It tells you the current bit depth it is working at.
Other boards appear to use firmware developed by the retail channel in China, and their boards are repurposed 4K 144Hz monitor boards.
However, they all seem to use the sale Realtek RTD2718Q video controller chip. So performance is dependant on firmware supplied, and only the R1811 and R9A18 have easily available firmware support.

One further factor. The LM270QQ1 A series screens can suffer from image retention issues.
There is an example from a a few posts back in this thread.
Later screens are far less likely to suffer from this, although the 2015 B1 screens can develop pink edge coloration.

Edit: "How bad is the low brightness issue?"
I think this is a non-issue.
It appears that 'low brightness' screens are re-glassed broken screens available from China, which have had their LEDs replaced or the wiring damaged in some way.
I don't know if this is the whole of the problem, but if you start out with a good screen, and are careful in the build process, these boards all give a good result.

The other problem is that non-retina iMac screen driver conversion boards available are much older designs, and have backlight CC boards incapable of driving iMac screens at full brightness.

The retina 5K iMac boards cost about 10 times as much, and don't have this problem.

Facetime cameras have to be USB. Several people in this thread have built conversions using various cameras, either from older 2009-2011 iMac (or Apple Thunderbolt Display) cameras.
Or from AliExpress 1080p or 4K ones.
This is an example.

@PaulD-UK Thank you for the detailed answer. Really appreciate it!

You've made it clear that the R1811 v4 seems to be the best choice, so I'll go ahead and order today :)

The display I have is the LM270QQ1 (SD)(A2) which as you mentioned is 8-bit. Does that mean that my iMac currently is not doing the "10 bits by using FRC". From what I was reading, support for this was added in later versions of MacOS for older Macs, but if I understand correctly, it doesn't matter as the display itself won't support it. As long as there's no noticeable downgrade in colour space from what I currently see on my iMac, I'm happy :)

Regarding image retention, this is definitely something I've noticed and is not ideal, but I can live with it.

Thanks also for the clarification on the brightness. My iMac was purchased brand new in 2014 and the display is in good condition, so I'll just go ahead without the board and hopefully it will be fine :)

Once again, thanks a bunch for your help!
 
"Does that mean that my iMac currently is not doing the "10 bits by using FRC".
It's not clear if it is or isn't.
Apple doesn't claim it is, and the panel database infers that its only 8 bits, but the screen panel data sheet is not available to check. Because it's an Apple-only product.

"As long as there's no noticeable downgrade in colour space from what I currently see on my iMac..."
There won't be, the R1811 (and other boards, give excellent results.

If you've got image retention, then running a vigorous multicoloured screensaver for up to 18 hours may help to clear it.
 
"Does that mean that my iMac currently is not doing the "10 bits by using FRC".
It's not clear if it is or isn't.
Apple doesn't claim it is, and the panel database infers that its only 8 bits, but the screen panel data sheet is not available to check. Because it's an Apple-only product.

"As long as there's no noticeable downgrade in colour space from what I currently see on my iMac..."
There won't be, the R1811 (and other boards, give excellent results.

If you've got image retention, then running a vigorous multicoloured screensaver for up to 18 hours may help to clear it.
Awesome, thank you! And one final clarification: I wouldn't need to bother with the reflashing of the firmware on the R1811 and having dual cables DP cables. I'll be fine with a single TB3 to DP1.4 cable? I don't require the charging capabilities of the USB-C port, so there's not much point in using the USB-C over DP.
 
Yes, the R1811 as supplied gives excellent 5K/60 10 bit RGB 4:4:4 with a single USB-C cable (has to be video capable) or DP a 1.4, or USB-C to DP 8K adapter cable.
HDMI 2.1 Macs can get 5K/60 but probably at 8 bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KayPee
For colour accuracy I personally think the R1811 V4 board is probably the best, because it has the most fully featured firmware, from the Taiwanese chipset manufacturer. It tells you the current bit depth it is working at.
Other boards appear to use firmware developed by the retail channel in China, and their boards are repurposed 4K 144Hz monitor boards.
However, they all seem to use the same Realtek RTD2718Q video controller chip.
So performance is dependant on firmware supplied, and only the R1811 and R9A18 have easily available firmware support.
I'm very curious if someone was able to compare the R1811 board to the JRY FA1 directly.
I think @kevinherring did conversions with both those boards and doesn't seem to see much differences from his message here?

Basically, from what I've read so far, the main disadvantages of the cheaper JRY-W9RQUHD-FA1 compared to R1811 are:
- not using the realtek firmware but instead an unofficial firmware as you noted
- there's a very weak amp 2x3W @ 4 ohms which is not enough for the imac speakers
- there's no IR receptor and it's hard to add the controls in a clean way
- no 12V output for the speakers (need to add an additional step down converter)
- No Backlight Constant Current board (I'm actually not sure at all if it's significant since I don't know if that's integrated in the JRY-W9RQUHD-FA1 board or not or even if we could use the Backlight Constant Current board from the R1811 with a JRY board)
- No USB C support (but a usb c to DP dongle is not expensive)
- No PD but I'm very hesitant to trust PD anyway.

Advantage of the JRY-W9RQUHD-FA1:
- Cheaper
- No fan so quieter (and should still be fan with the imac original fan)

So far, I'm still mostly planning to use the JRY-W9RQUHD-FA1 because it's half the price and because I plan to use an amp to drive the speakers (JAB4 with integrated DSP) anyway so I'm not too bothered by the fact that it's amp much less powerful than the R1811. I don't particularly care about the lack of 12V out, usb c support and PD.

But, I'm very curious to see a comparison between the R1811 and JRY-W9RQUHD-FA1 because if the firmware really make a difference, it might be worth paying the extra money.
 
Last edited:
Quick pro-tip I've learned, if you're gutting the internals (including fan and speakers) then you need to add additional weight in the case. In my instance, the chin kept moving up. I just stuck about 8oz of lead weights in the bottom of the chin and that seems to have solved the issue. Would have been cleaner if I put them in and adhered them while the screen was off (I just put them in via the RAM slot) so heads up!
 
  • Like
Reactions: tock and zalg
Hey everyone. Now that my new M4 Mini arrived I can finally put my late 2014 iMac to rest. Thanks to everyone in this thread, I got almost every information I could ask for.
I went for the JRY-W9CUHD - AA1 because I got it for about 90€. I want to use it via Thunderbolt. This should be possible right?
 
Any recommendations regarding optimum color settings?
Like would the Dell UltraSharp Calibration Solution work?
Thanks!

LG LM270QQ1 SDA1 with R9A18
Dual DP from Mac Pro 2013 D300 on Big Sur
Identified as DELL UP2715K @5K 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010)

On a sidenote, my controller board would not save its settings after disconnecting power.
Flashing R9A18_V01_LM270QQ1_5120x2880_edp_8Lane.bin fixed it.
hello ! please help with a same problem, where I can download firmware?
 
@sandercutcher Various people as well as @arw who posted in the early pages of this thread flashed their R9A18 boards.
I think originally the firmware files and flashing software came from their vendors,
If none of them reply to this post, you could try contacting this website that sells the R9A18 and R1811, and advertises R1811 firmware replacements:
 
  • Like
Reactions: arw
hello ! please help with a same problem, where I can download firmware?
I PM'ed you the link to the R9A18_V01_LM270QQ1_V06.zip.
Of course I can't guarantee any compatibility. So use at your own risk. Good luck!

edit: for future readers, flashing was successful (board pcb imprint "CY. R9A18 V1.1")
 
Last edited:
I PM'ed you the link to the R9A18_V01_LM270QQ1_V06.zip.
Of course I can't guarantee any compatibility. So use at your own risk. Good luck!

edit: for future readers, flashing was successful (board pcb imprint "CY. R9A18 V1.1")
Thanks a lot my friend!
 
  • Like
Reactions: arw
Hi Paul, I finally received the camera, connected via USB and Sonoma detects it without asking for drivers, the AF works perfectly.

Now I need to make the adapter for the camera and the On/Off LED and.....

I'm looking for a microphone that has two capsules and noise reduction. The idea is to keep the electronic one, but use the original capsules that are in the chassis of the iMac.

One capsule has an output to the outside at the back, the other is simply glued on (I understand that Apple uses 180⁰ active phase reduction). Do you know anything about this? Do you have any information about the tiny capsules?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20241111_200813_866.jpg
    IMG_20241111_200813_866.jpg
    75 KB · Views: 51
  • IMG_20241111_200813_712.jpg
    IMG_20241111_200813_712.jpg
    108.9 KB · Views: 52
  • Like
Reactions: PaulD-UK
@Xarl-li
Like the iMac webcam is a digital output device, I suspect the microphones may be non-standard.
@Aiwi Found there was too much noise to use the original chin microphone with the the iMac's and the R1811's fans.
He found another solution. He wrote about it here:
 
I'm planning to create an esp32 pcb board with jlcpcb to manage a few things in the imac:
- PWM for the internal fan (with a temperature sensor)
- DSP for the amp board I bought (JAB4)
- interface with the controls to allow controlling the OSD
- Optionally if I can find where to put it, put an ambient light sensor to allow automatic brightness adjustment

I'm still waiting on my pizza cutter tool from ifixit but figured I'd get a start at making the pcb on kicad while waiting. Does anyone know the following?
- What is the exact connector used by the imac internal fan. Of course, I can just remove the wires and connect that directly but it would be cleaner if I can find a cable that connect to the imac fan connector
- Does the 2.4ghz wifi antenna use a MHF I connector from I-PEX? That would allow me to connect it directly to the
ESP32-S3-WROOM-1U I plan to use

And yes, I realize it's overkill but it's a fun project and a good way to learn :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xarl-li
Good luck! Keep us posted here...

The fan connector is so far unidentified - Apple use Molex Micro-Fit for the PSU connectors, and Molex Pico-lock for the speakers and PSU control connector.
But I can't find the fan connector in their catalogue. It may be there?
Wifi/BT use the standard connectors as far as I can see.
Two WiFi on the right side, BT at the top right, and WiFi in the Apple logo on the back.

iMacFanSocketCU.jpg

iMacWiFiPlugs.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: zalg
I've recently been trying to build two screens using 2x R1811 V4 boards and 2x LM270QQ2 SPA3 panels.

Unfortunately the seller sent the controller with the wrong backlit wire and firmware (I believe for the LM270QQ2 SPA1) however they sent out a new cable and the tool to flash new firmware (alongside the firmware itself).
Since doing so I have been able to get the picture to show with good quality, but with the left and right panel swapped.

Does anybody know of a way to fix this?
Tried scanning through this post and Google but can't find anything to help.
The seller is being incredibly slow in responding.

A6a190f4dff9d418f828b3889f01ef5bch.jpg
 
Last edited:
Sorry, no idea...
All I can suggest is another? source for firmware, who may be able to help:
This is the store I purchased the board from: https://aliexpress.com/store/2058112
Not sure how legitimate it is, but they sign off all messages with a StoneTaskin signature.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.