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KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
provides a simple interface, and simpler options, for those who don't need the 'expert' or additional functions; but if you do need more, there's a simple way to get to it. what's not to like?

The obscurity? I accept that it’s a necessity, but it’s an unfortunate loss of intuitiveness and comes at the cost of hiding useful features from users who might otherwise never find them unless specifically told where to look.
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,199
7,353
Perth, Western Australia
So, apple stopped an animation for the time machine icon spinning (so it is now less distracting and consumes less power and potentially a little less CPU because there's no animation when backing up), and you're running a pre-release OS that isn't finished, OS X is dead as a professional OS?

Right....


Methinks you aren't a professional at all, if those even rate in your list of quibbles about whether or not an OS is professional, and the fact that you're running a beta or developer preview on your production machine and making judgements on the state of OS X with it.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,675
In the menu bar it is at least revealed to you when you press down the option key, I didn’t know that buttons do the same. And it’s still terrible user experience if you hide settings like that.

I have submitted a bug report that the button label should change to 'Calibrate (expert)' or something like that when option key is pressed. I agree that right now the behaviour is not transparent.
 

zhaoxin

macrumors 6502
Jan 28, 2015
309
65
It does have the ability that you say no. It alone with display. The second tab is color, on the right is adjust screen. iMac 5k, 10.11 beta 6 (15A244d)
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
The obscurity? I accept that it’s a necessity, but it’s an unfortunate loss of intuitiveness and comes at the cost of hiding useful features from users who might otherwise never find them unless specifically told where to look.

but OS X is (and has been) full of these 'second-level' options; and, if someone needs that functionality, easy enough to ask an apple 'genius', or google the issue, or post for help on a forum like this. the internet's perfect for this sort of thing!
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,675
When you don't know functionality exists, you can't ask how to use it. Hiding useful functionality is not a user-friendly gesture.

Dunno, it took me exactly 3 seconds to find it. Without knowing where or how to look. The OS is really very consistent about hidden features. If you are missing a feature, press and hold the option key. If nothing changed, then probably there is not advanced functionality. There is no need to document this, just as there is no need to document that the button 'Open Profile' opens a profile file.

So far, the only real issue I can see that the Calibrate button does not change when you press the option key, thus not giving you any indication that its behaviour will change. That is a clear bug and has to be fixed.

Since 10.7 onwards, OS X never came out of BETA...

You surely mean 10.0 ;)
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
When you don't know functionality exists, you can't ask how to use it. Hiding useful functionality is not a user-friendly gesture.

that makes no sense. if you don't need a certain function, it makes no difference if it's visible or not. and if you do need it, you can easily find out if it's do-able, and how to do it. simple!
 
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dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
For example, the spinning time machine icon used to spin when backing up at least giving a warning to a user that a backup is occurring so maybe now is not the time to shut down your system.
Time Machine is a "set and forget" system. Being constantly bugged with an animation is not part of such a system. Backups are done regularly, every hour so missing a few backups isn't that much of a problem. The system should also be intelligent enough to accustom for being interrupted while doing the backup procedure. It seems that they've managed to get it to do just that. In other words: you simply turn it on and that's it. You don't have to worry about it which was and still is the entire purpose of Time Machine. If you take a look at special backup software and how Windows and Solaris do it then you'll see that they don't do it that much differently than Time Machine. They only give you a message when the backup procedure is done (backup failed, backup successful), usually via e-mail.

The removal of expose and the half hearted attempts to bring it back are, to say the least inferior.
Except that Exposé has never been removed from OS X.

Yesterday I discovered an actual show stopper: You can no longer adjust the display properly. You used to be able to adjust color levels, contrast, etc. etc. but now, in System Preferences->Displays, you get basically an "idiot box" approach to display adjustment where you can adjust the contrast of your screen and set the native white point, and that's it.
Which has always been the case. If you want proper adjustment of your display you need hardware plus accompanying software (aka a colorimeter at the very least) and you need to calibrate regularly (depending on what you do this could be once a year up to continuously). You never ever use the option in the OS to do this as this is entirely software only with no measurement of the display whatsoever. So is this is a showstopper? Absolutely not. Know your tools ;)

Btw, if you think that you only need to calibrate your display to have accurate colours you are absolutely wrong. The workplace has to be adjusted and so do the other equipment and the lighting (which cannot be changed because if you do, you need to recalibrate everything). There simply is so much more to it.

The dumbing down of OS X has finally gone too far. I actually can't use this for real work. Combine that with the inability to adjust that bad joke known as translucency to prevent the obvious visual problems it causes some users and I'd have to say the degradation of the OS continues.
It's not the OS that is dumbing down here. What I see here is someone not (fully) understanding his tools and blaming it on something else. It is better to invest some time in getting to know your tools and how you should do things (use a colorimeter and NOT the tooling in OS X for example).
 
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Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
Over the years we've seen numerous features, both serious and trivial, removed from OS X in what seems an effort to "dumb down" the operating system. For example, the spinning time machine icon used to spin when backing up at least giving a warning to a user that a backup is occurring so maybe now is not the time to shut down your system. The removal of expose and the half hearted attempts to bring it back are, to say the least inferior.

Yesterday I discovered an actual show stopper: You can no longer adjust the display properly. You used to be able to adjust color levels, contrast, etc. etc. but now, in System Preferences->Displays, you get basically an "idiot box" approach to display adjustment where you can adjust the contrast of your screen and set the native white point, and that's it.

Why is this a show stopper? Because not all displays are alike and how they're set up by each user may vary widely. For online image work we used to have about 20 different display profiles to emulate various displays and settings so we could verify that our work is presented in a decent fashion to a user. The ability to do this is now gone. I suspect that any photographer using OS X will find this problem not kind of serious, but an actual show stopper, as in "I can't use this for professional work any longer."

As an FYI I was able to overcome this by copying profiles generated in Mavericks onto an El Capitan unit and it looks like it works, but there's no way to adjust anything. In other words, if you do this sort of work, all you need to do is log into a previous release of OS X, generated color profiles, then copy them to an El Capitan partition, then reboot and use El Capitan. This of course begs the question, "Why use El Capitan at all?"

The dumbing down of OS X has finally gone too far. I actually can't use this for real work. Combine that with the inability to adjust that bad joke known as translucency to prevent the obvious visual problems it causes some users and I'd have to say the degradation of the OS continues.

No, it's not the death of OS X as a serious OS. This is a beta. It's not ready for public or professional consumption.

Wait until it's released to complain about how it jacks up your work flow.
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,537
7,235
Serbia
People have been complaining of "dumbing down" OS X since Lion got some interface elements that reminded of iOS. People confuse consistency across devices with dumbing down.

In fact, when compared to Windows, OS X is much more "work oriented". It never gets in my way, offers tools that I can't find in Windows, let's me focus on my work. A lot of options I don't care about and would only distract me are hidden, but can be accessed easily if I really wanted them and the instructions are just one Google search away. While Microsoft is still toying around with how things look skin deep, Apple adds functionality, performance and new ways to boost productivity.

Some people will always find things to complain about, but for me, OS X has never felt better for "real work".
 

Fzang

macrumors 65816
Jun 15, 2013
1,315
1,081
How will these novices ever learn if half the features are kept secret? By reading the nonexistent manuals? By holding down the option key over every user interface element?

Because the majority of Windows users are clearly adept at the intuitive tool Regedit, right?
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
that makes no sense. if you don't need a certain function, it makes no difference if it's visible or not. and if you do need it, you can easily find out if it's do-able, and how to do it. simple!

If the option is there, you can’t assume that people may not want to use it. That would be pointless. Again, nobody is suggesting that the solution is bad. But it is a fact that hidden options are not user friendly. Sometimes even the worst implementation is still a solution to a problem.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
If the option is there, you can’t assume that people may not want to use it. That would be pointless. Again, nobody is suggesting that the solution is bad. But it is a fact that hidden options are not user friendly. Sometimes even the worst implementation is still a solution to a problem.

i genuinely don't get what you're saying; how hard is it to google? or ask on forums like this? even, say, 90% of users don't need a certain function...all is well. and for the others, there are resources, with answers.

either way, this seems to be apple's philosophy, so we adapt...or go elsewhere. thankfully, there are options (hidden or not), that we can access and use...
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
i genuinely don't get what you're saying; how hard is it to google? or ask on forums like this?

The point is that someone must know first and there is no way to figure these things out other than by guessing, even if you are experienced. You hold the option key to reveal something else or, like in this case, you simultaneously click on a button and see whether something different happens. Apple doesn’t provide a comprehensive manual and even if they would do it, no one is going to read it. In practice, yes, people can find things if they look for for it in external sources. But technically, it is not an ideal solution. A hidden option is an option you don’t see unless you know where to look for.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
The point is that someone must know first and there is no easy way to figure these things out other than by guessing, even if you are experienced. You hold the option key to reveal something else or like in the case of the button, you click and see what happens. Apple doesn’t provide a comprehensive manual and even if they do, no one is going to read it. In practice, yes, people can find things if they look for for it on external sources. But technically, it is not an ideal solution.

seriously, do you think that no one knows of these mysterious options? or that, if apple provided a comprehensive manual, no one would read it? no one?? anyway, here are always users who explore everything; we have some of those people on this very forum. so, if there are questions, there will be answers, or, at least, discussion, and the hunt for answers. meanwhile, as i said, this is apple's way...so we adapt... or not.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
seriously, do you think that no one knows of these mysterious options? or that, if apple provided a comprehensive manual, no one would read it? no one?? anyway, here are always users who explore everything; we have some of those people on this very forum. so, if there are questions, there will be answers, or, at least, discussion, and the hunt for answers. meanwhile, as i said, this is apple's way...so we adapt... or not.

I’m done discussing this. Again: a hidden option is an option you don’t see or know about. It might as well not exist unless you specifically look or ask for it or just encounter it by chance. The gist of it is that it is bad usability-wise and I don’t – and I stress this – blame Apple for doing it if they don’t know what else to do. But it’s bad usability nonetheless.
 
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