El Capitan: Does this mark the death of OS X as a serious OS?

[ZVH]

I made the exact same mistake as the OP. I saw the removal of advanced features and assumed either this was yet another move in dumbing down the OS or it was because it was a beta. I didn't however, hold the option key and just start taking potshot guesses at whether which key combination should work. Changing the OS so it becomes more confusing to users, or so that they need to be doing web searches to find information out about the OS is a valid complaint, IMHO.

I don't think that anyone can argue effectively that the original Expose was much better than what they have now. I don't understand why they removed it.

App Nap is another bad idea, but it originated in Mavericks. If you look at all the bad reviews about Yosemite on the App Store a lot of them are complaining that the download stops and then waits for hours to resume. One review even said it only resumed when he clicked on the App Store and made it active again. Most people don't know what this is and what it does, and it just leaves them confused why their system is "locking up." What Apple should do is launch a dialog before entering App Nap and tell the user it's about to do this and give them an option to disable it right then and there, but no such warning exists (at least I haven't seen one).

 

[Planey28]

App Nap is another bad idea, but it originated in Mavericks. If you look at all the bad reviews about Yosemite on the App Store a lot of them are complaining that the download stops and then waits for hours to resume. One review even said it only resumed when he clicked on the App Store and made it active again. Most people don't know what this is and what it does, and it just leaves them confused why their system is "locking up." What Apple should do is launch a dialog before entering App Nap and tell the user it's about to do this and give them an option to disable it right then and there, but no such warning exists (at least I haven't seen one).

That's not how app nap works, and it would not be responsible for a paused download.

Even so, you think they should launch a dialog for every single app that gets hidden by another window? What a great idea for a usability nightmare.

Every single OS X release the whole "OS X is a toy OS, its becoming iOS" argument comes about, does it make it have any more substance? No, it's just the same people who are scared of change.

 

[KALLT]

I just wanted to give an example to show there is a difference between tightening things up and dumbing things down.

SIP breaks TotalFinder as it is now but let's not forget that we are still in the beta stages of OS X El Capitan. Things change and these betas are meant to gain experience with the new features, check if apps run or break and if OS X itself is running fine or not. As XtraFinder has shown SIP isn't a problem. There are some changes they have to make to the app to get it to work again. The same applies to other apps like Fantastical. They currently are also in a beta stage to test a version that should be compatible with El Capitan. Apps that already obey the SIP rules work fine, apps like Karabiner.

System Integrity Protection doesn’t interfere with App Store apps, they comply with Apple’s security policy. If Fantastical 2 doesn’t work then correctly it’s likely because of something else. The OS evolves in other ways too and APIs are changed.

The problem with TotalFinder and XtraFinder is that they inject code into the Finder itself. They basically hijack it and add code to it and it’s a messy way of doing it as well, as it likely breaks whenever Apple updates Finder. That is something Apple doesn’t allow anymore for its system apps. It makes perfect sense from a security perspective.

 

[leman]

App Nap is another bad idea, but it originated in Mavericks. If you look at all the bad reviews about Yosemite on the App Store a lot of them are complaining that the download stops and then waits for hours to resume. One review even said it only resumed when he clicked on the App Store and made it active again. Most people don't know what this is and what it does, and it just leaves them confused why their system is "locking up." What Apple should do is launch a dialog before entering App Nap and tell the user it's about to do this and give them an option to disable it right then and there, but no such warning exists (at least I haven't seen one).

Yep, you seem to misunderstand what App Nap does. And besides, there is a full set of the APIs available to developers that lets them control their app power saving behaviour. The only situation where App Nap can be a disadvantage is if you have to use a badly coded legacy app. OS X was never about backwards compatibility though. They constantly add new tech and they don't care much if it breaks existing software. Its a valid, if risky, strategy. Certainly makes the average available software higher quality.

 

[KALLT]

That's not how app nap works, and it would not be responsible for a paused download.

The only thing App Nap does is to suspend processes when they are not used. An application can run multiple processes and not all use App Nap. Safari runs separate processes for each tab/website and they are suspended when they are not in the front. Downloading something is a separate process as well and it’s not suspended. Same with the App Store, it only suspends the shop and the app, but the downloading process is not suspended.

 

[leman]

I don't think it's as much "dumbing down" as it is locking down. The walled garden of  seems to be getting thicker. The rootless "feature" of El Cap is a huge step into that territory and I suspect most users won't realize just how huge until they see how many things they used to be able to do but can't - like running 3rd party apps.

Apple claims locking down the system is a security measure to "protect" us, but it also reduces user functionality and access. This leads to the question - how much do you really want to sacrifice in the name of security?

This is simply not true. I say this as a developer who spends more time in Terminal and TextMate than in Safari. I can't think of a single situation that would require me to have write access to system file. Unless I want to hack the system drivers or the kernel. I would be using Linux if I had such low-level requirements. It is also not true that it prevents the user from running 3rd party apps if they are written properly. It is no business of a third party app to inject stuff into core system behaviour. The only thing that SIP prevents is hacking of the OS, nothing more.

 

[Traverse]

When you don't know functionality exists, you can't ask how to use it. Hiding useful functionality is not a user-friendly gesture.

I'm still discovering handy little things that even the "average user" could appreciate (like holding the option key while dragging to copy or holding command to move it across volumes).

These are not readily apparent and most users won't know to google it. I leaned dozens of neat tricks browsing this forum, but how many Mac users actually browse here?

 

[KALLT]

I'm still discovering handy little things that even the "average user" could appreciate (like holding the option key while dragging to copy or holding command to move it across volumes).

These are not readily apparent and most users won't know to google it. I leaned dozens of neat tricks browsing this forum, but how many Mac users actually browse here?

Apple used to have a really nice podcast called Mac Quick Tips. I watched them after I ordered my Mac and I learned a lot of nifty stuff that way. Too bad that they discontinued it.

 

[Traverse]

Apple used to have a really nice podcast called Mac Quick Tips. I watched them after I ordered my Mac and I learned a lot of nifty stuff that way. Too bad that they discontinued it.

I watched those too. They were quick and simple ways to learn more about OS X. I've learned the most from these forums actually. Option-key functions, terminal commands, hidden files, uninstalled programs completely. This is a very informative place.

 

[dyn]

System Integrity Protection doesn’t interfere with App Store apps, they comply with Apple’s security policy. If Fantastical 2 doesn’t work then correctly it’s likely because of something else. The OS evolves in other ways too and APIs are changed.

I was talking about El Capitan being a new OS with some changes (the entire UI is different due to the shift to Metal for example) and it is also a beta version so things might be broken. That's why apps need to update. SIP is only part of the story. People need to realise that there are more things that influence the workings of software.

The problem with TotalFinder and XtraFinder is that they inject code into the Finder itself.

There is no guarantee that they'll work fine even if injecting code was allowed. Each new OS comes with rather big changes that developers have to account for. That's the other reason why they are given beta versions of OS X: test if their apps still work and fix them in time. That some developers choose to wait to do that until the final release is a different discussion.

Just take a look at the following topic that tries to sum up all the apps that work or don't work: OS X El Capitan: Working & Not Working Apps.

You are reading things way too literal.

 

[MacRobert10]

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

Since Steve Jobs died this company has produced crap, literally crap. They need to rush out a new OS version every year when after a year of tons of bug reports and public complaints about Yosemite it only now, a year later, appears that it's FINALLY beginning to work properly? This is careless, reckless, and stupid.

Take a look at the stats for iPad sales. After Jony "stick figure" Ive "improved" the OS, the sales fell. Why? Because it was such an improvement that people couldn't take it or because what was once beautiful, artistic looking, and left people with the impression that it was well crafted now looks like, and I quote a from an actual App Store comment, "Something like Hanna Barbera (cartoon makers) created."

It would be one thing if the OS looked like crap, and it does, but it was an outstanding performer, but it's neither. I'd estimate that about 25% of Apple's customers are now lost because of Jony "stick figure" Ive's designs, but I'd bet a much larger number will turn their back on it because the old phrase "It just works" is not only invalid, it's the exact opposite of what's happening.

Only a fad oriented, superficial dimwit will be impressed with Apple's "new" direction.

Case closed, IMHO.

 

[fisherking]

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

Since Steve Jobs died this company has produced crap, literally crap. They need to rush out a new OS version every year when after a year of tons of bug reports and public complaints about Yosemite it only now, a year later, appears that it's FINALLY beginning to work properly? This is careless, reckless, and stupid.

Take a look at the stats for iPad sales. After Jony "stick figure" Ive "improved" the OS, the sales fell. Why? Because it was such an improvement that people couldn't take it or because what was once beautiful, artistic looking, and left people with the impression that it was well crafted now looks like, and I quote a from an actual App Store comment, "Something like Hanna Barbera (cartoon makers) created."

It would be one thing if the OS looked like crap, and it does, but it was an outstanding performer, but it's neither. I'd estimate that about 25% of Apple's customers are now lost because of Jony "stick figure" Ive's designs, but I'd bet a much larger number will turn their back on it because the old phrase "It just works" is not only invalid, it's the exact opposite of what's happening.

Only a fad oriented, superficial dimwit will be impressed with Apple's "new" direction.

Case closed, IMHO.

funny post, thanks for sharing. seriously, why bother being here if you're just gonna whine? also, some of your facts are wrong...but why bother getting into it? you've got it all worked out...

 

[JHUFrank]

funny post, thanks for sharing. seriously, why bother being here if you're just gonna whine? also, some of your facts are wrong...but why bother getting into it? you've got it all worked out...

Holy Smokes, that poor human needs to drink either more coffee, or a lot less coffee. Lot of bitterness simmering there.

 

[markovchain]

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

Since Steve Jobs died this company has produced crap, literally crap. They need to rush out a new OS version every year when after a year of tons of bug reports and public complaints about Yosemite it only now, a year later, appears that it's FINALLY beginning to work properly? This is careless, reckless, and stupid.

Take a look at the stats for iPad sales. After Jony "stick figure" Ive "improved" the OS, the sales fell. Why? Because it was such an improvement that people couldn't take it or because what was once beautiful, artistic looking, and left people with the impression that it was well crafted now looks like, and I quote a from an actual App Store comment, "Something like Hanna Barbera (cartoon makers) created."

It would be one thing if the OS looked like crap, and it does, but it was an outstanding performer, but it's neither. I'd estimate that about 25% of Apple's customers are now lost because of Jony "stick figure" Ive's designs, but I'd bet a much larger number will turn their back on it because the old phrase "It just works" is not only invalid, it's the exact opposite of what's happening.

Only a fad oriented, superficial dimwit will be impressed with Apple's "new" direction.

Case closed, IMHO.

totally agreed. I miss so much the days of Snow Leopard. Simple. Elegant. Fast.

 

[fisherking]

Holy Smokes, that poor human needs to drink either more coffee, or a lot less coffee. Lot of bitterness simmering there.

i think more coffee...

 

[maxsix]

Dumbing down OS X?

The deniers will blast you...

Apple hopes you won't notice...

 

[Ethosik]

So why bother hiding some of its functions in a button? Clearly Apple must have thought that there is a use case where more users only need some functions and advanced users need some others.

Why does Microsoft hide the registry editor from Control Panel?

 

[ZVH]

That's not how app nap works, and it would not be responsible for a paused download.

Even so, you think they should launch a dialog for every single app that gets hidden by another window? What a great idea for a usability nightmare.

Every single OS X release the whole "OS X is a toy OS, its becoming iOS" argument comes about, does it make it have any more substance? No, it's just the same people who are scared of change.

I'm not suggesting a dialog pop up every time App Nap is about to kick in, I'm suggesting that for applications that aren't aware of App Nap that if it's about to kick in the OS should issue a dialog the first time it's about to happen so the user is a) aware of it, and b) can disable it or allow it to go on. The biggest problem with App Nap is unawareness of it, and too few people are aware of it. Why is that? Did Apple not make it clear that's what was happening. If a given firm has, say 200 users and they're using "legacy" apps you can hardly expect every company to update every single license they have just to accommodate an OS X "feature."

 

[BradHatter]

A lot of people are still unaware of App Nap.

Time will be better spent filing complaints with Apple, not MacRumors. MacRumors can't do anything about them, and Apple probably isn't listening to this site.

 

[dyn]

totally agreed. I miss so much the days of Snow Leopard. Simple. Elegant. Fast.

Ah yes, the days when people whined about it being slower than Leopard and Tiger, not having enough new stuff, taking long to get in the mail (snailmail that is) and last but certainly not least: the enormous about of bickering over the Exposé grid layout. Same old same old since there is bickering with every new OS X and iOS release. Funny to see people still thinking that MacRumors (or any other forum) is Apples bugtracking system...

 

[rnbwd]

I don't understand why people are complaining about metal and SIP

 

[Taz Mangus]

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

Since Steve Jobs died this company has produced crap, literally crap. They need to rush out a new OS version every year when after a year of tons of bug reports and public complaints about Yosemite it only now, a year later, appears that it's FINALLY beginning to work properly? This is careless, reckless, and stupid.

Take a look at the stats for iPad sales. After Jony "stick figure" Ive "improved" the OS, the sales fell. Why? Because it was such an improvement that people couldn't take it or because what was once beautiful, artistic looking, and left people with the impression that it was well crafted now looks like, and I quote a from an actual App Store comment, "Something like Hanna Barbera (cartoon makers) created."

It would be one thing if the OS looked like crap, and it does, but it was an outstanding performer, but it's neither. I'd estimate that about 25% of Apple's customers are now lost because of Jony "stick figure" Ive's designs, but I'd bet a much larger number will turn their back on it because the old phrase "It just works" is not only invalid, it's the exact opposite of what's happening.

Only a fad oriented, superficial dimwit will be impressed with Apple's "new" direction.

Case closed, IMHO.

You think stooping to name calling makes your post more intelligent and credible?

 

[Taz Mangus]

I don't understand why people are complaining about metal and SIP

Becuase some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. Every single release of OS X has been a case where people either complain that there are no new features or there are too many new features.

 

[Planey28]

I'm not suggesting a dialog pop up every time App Nap is about to kick in, I'm suggesting that for applications that aren't aware of App Nap that if it's about to kick in the OS should issue a dialog the first time it's about to happen so the user is a) aware of it, and b) can disable it or allow it to go on. The biggest problem with App Nap is unawareness of it, and too few people are aware of it. Why is that? Did Apple not make it clear that's what was happening. If a given firm has, say 200 users and they're using "legacy" apps you can hardly expect every company to update every single license they have just to accommodate an OS X "feature."

Because it doesn't cause issues like you've highlighted... asking for a switch for app nap is like asking for a switch for Metal or something... it's designed to be an intelligent battery saving feature. The reason people are not aware of it is because it was designed to be transparent to the user and work intelligently to save power; 99% of people will be completely unaware of the core technologies in OS X. As I said, it will not pause a download (or any other active background process), because its smarter than that - it's nothing to be afraid of and any issues you've had to blame on it are almost certainly caused by something else going wrong.

Becuase some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. Every single release of OS X has been a case where people either complain that there are no new features or there are too many new features.

Spot on.

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

Since Steve Jobs died this company has produced crap, literally crap. They need to rush out a new OS version every year when after a year of tons of bug reports and public complaints about Yosemite it only now, a year later, appears that it's FINALLY beginning to work properly? This is careless, reckless, and stupid.

Take a look at the stats for iPad sales. After Jony "stick figure" Ive "improved" the OS, the sales fell. Why? Because it was such an improvement that people couldn't take it or because what was once beautiful, artistic looking, and left people with the impression that it was well crafted now looks like, and I quote a from an actual App Store comment, "Something like Hanna Barbera (cartoon makers) created."

It would be one thing if the OS looked like crap, and it does, but it was an outstanding performer, but it's neither. I'd estimate that about 25% of Apple's customers are now lost because of Jony "stick figure" Ive's designs, but I'd bet a much larger number will turn their back on it because the old phrase "It just works" is not only invalid, it's the exact opposite of what's happening.

Only a fad oriented, superficial dimwit will be impressed with Apple's "new" direction.

Case closed, IMHO.

Anything you can say doesn't have a crumb of credibility any longer because of this post - how dare anyone differ from you and continue to enjoy OS X!

If you're so horribly unhappy, leave the platform, Windows 10 is a pretty great alternative (although I'm sure you'll find something to moan about over there as well!)

 

[n-evo]

If you guys don't like my comments about this becoming an idiots operating system (i.e. my references to it being catered to Kim Kardashian, Sarah Pallin, etc) all I have to say is tough cookies.

All I can say about you not enjoying OS X and your inability to cope with other people's opinions is: Tough cookies. Switch to something else or continue to use Mac OS X Snow Leopard indefinitely. It's far more constructive than ranting on about stuff you don't have any control over and won't change anytime soon.