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Espresso Enthusiasts
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Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Oh, dear. Blushes (actually, fails miserably at the feminine skill of blushing becomingly; the best part of a bottle of Amarone - consumed this evening - doesn't have me blushing becomingly).
Why, thank you very much, my dear friends. Ah, this is so sweet, and I am most touched. Thank you, both.
The Amarone was consumed with a cherished Italian friend (the very friend who insisted that I take in the movie 'The Great Beauty' some months ago). Another Italian made me an espresso with a small electric Bialetti pot, and demonstrated firstly, that electric Bialettis have their place in our world. She explained that she had disdained the idea as unworthy of a purist, much preferring the standard beloved antique stove stop model, and added that she had been appalled to find that the coffee they produced was no different to that produced by the venerable antique (well, insufficiently different to overcome the undeniable advantages that a Bialetti having its own electric base will allow you in our current environment).
Her second lesson came in the novel manner with which she produced a crema; she briskly stirred a microscopic amount of espresso with the sugar already in the small cup until they were almost blended, then added the espresso from the pot to the mix; I must say it was excellent ...
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And a warm thank you, too, to you SBG .
mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Why thank you all very much; your kind wishes (one and all) for my health, happiness, longevity, and many, many more espressos are treasured by me.
decafjava
macrumors 603
Happy birthday SS! All my best wishes and as we say in my parent's tongue (Greek) "chronia pola" (many years). Even though I only occasionally peruse this forum for tech issues - and try to avoid the silly fankid tech wars - I really enjoy reading your posts. I have rarely read someone so eloquent on the net. 😎
Shrink
macrumors G3
I think if you read the posts again, you'll find that there is not now, nor never has been, any "tech wars" among us silly fankids.
I think if you read the posts carefully you will find that the discussions are friendly sharing of information about equipment for those considering purchases of new stuff.
I believe that you will also find that the atmosphere on this thread is marked by friendliness, support, and good will among the "silly fankids" here.
If I have misread your comment, and it was meant humorously, my apologies. But if meant seriously, I suggest that you have not read the posts carefully as there are no "tech wars" among the "sillyfan kids".
Again...apologies if I have misread your intent.🙂
mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
Shrink
macrumors G3
Thanks for correcting my misreading of the post. 😀
And to decafjava, my sincerest apologies for my uncalled for comments.
I really love this thread, and my only excuse for my rudeness is being overly sensitive to anything that I interpret as negative on the thread. And I clearly have misinterpreted!
Again...please accept my apologies...😱
mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
I like to think that our forays into 'fankid-ism' on this thread are generally lighthearted and self-mocking.😛
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
What kind words, sir. Much appreciated - and it is always lovely to see that others also share my love of the tongue of Shakespeare. And thank you, too, for your most kind greetings concerning my birthday.
Yes, this was my reading of the post, as well; I think decafjava used the word 'forum' (rather than 'thread') to describe the inane and sometimes ludicrously intense tone that some of the discussions elsewhere in these fora tend to give rise to - the sort where the ferocity expended on such an utterly trivial matter - dare one name the device? - ill justifies such a surfeit of emotional energy.
But I could never see those terms being used to describe our civilised corner of this universe; an impressive attention to detail and an obsessive interest in the topic do distinguish this thread, but the warm welcome, delight in sharing information, ideas, and tips, and the sheer bravura effortlessly displayed by most of those who post on this topic make this particular thread an online outpost I, personally, most certainly treasure.
Shrink
macrumors G3
mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
Shrink
macrumors G3
decafjava
macrumors 603
Ok Shrink, apology accepted. 😀 No need to carry on, though I note those are wet noodles you are using. 😛
Yes of course I meant the tech arguments on other sections of this site, I could add PRSI at times -though there are actually some very thoughtful discussions there as well.
On a side note, I am chagrined one of my favourite history sites, one that includes, in addition to the usual large numbers of English speaking members, a very significant international contingent. That includes members from the former USSR, mainly Russia. You can imagine the quality of discourse there now with the Ukraine situation. 🙄 Sad as I joined partly because there is a sub-forum dedicated to the Eastern Front in WWII and it was nice to have an exchange of academic-level info. Oh well, WWI and ancient history is not affected yet.
Just more praise for this thread in particular as a haven of sanity and even silliness sometimes. As well as useful info for myself and others. 😎
Kurwenal
macrumors 6502a
Happy Birthday, Scepticalscribe. I hope you had a wonderful day.
++++++++++
The art & science of coffee is just endlessly entertaining and interesting. Consider two recent roasting sessions, one three weeks ago, the other today. Both using Liquid Amber, and all other variables held constant (at least insofar as is possible). From my roasting log:
Batch: 2014-31
Date: 03/27/14
Source: SM LA
Purchase Date: 02/04/14
Weight In: 227
Weight Out:
Profile: SR2
Pre-Heat Instr:
Ambient Temp: 22
Humidity: 9%
FC: 5:59
RFC: 5:33
EFC: 4:35
SC: 3:15
RSC:
ESC:
Eject: 2:30
Roasting Notes: Heat off 4:30; Heat on 2:35
Tasting Notes & Grade:
Batch: 2014-36
Date: 04/16/14
Source: SM LA
Purchase Date: 02/04/14
Weight In: 227
Weight Out:
Profile: SR2
Pre-Heat Instr:
Ambient Temp: 23
Humidity: 6%
FC: 7:07
RFC: 6:50
EFC: 6:00
SC: 5:04
RSC:
ESC:
Eject: 5:00
Roasting Notes: Heat off 5:58
Tasting Notes & Grade:
Same coffee, same roaster, same profile; yet batch 2 roasted much quicker than batch 1, nearly 2 1/2 minutes faster (out of a total of about 15 minutes in the roaster). And, looking back through my roasting log, there are literally hundreds of examples like this. It's incredible.
I hope I never completely figure this out. It won't be as much fun anymore. And, I can't wait to taste batch 2, on Saturday. I've never had Liquid Amber run that quickly, and, in fact, it was in such a hurry that I did not even get a chance to try to extend second crack. Should be interesting.
++++++++++
The art & science of coffee is just endlessly entertaining and interesting. Consider two recent roasting sessions, one three weeks ago, the other today. Both using Liquid Amber, and all other variables held constant (at least insofar as is possible). From my roasting log:
Batch: 2014-31
Date: 03/27/14
Source: SM LA
Purchase Date: 02/04/14
Weight In: 227
Weight Out:
Profile: SR2
Pre-Heat Instr:
Ambient Temp: 22
Humidity: 9%
FC: 5:59
RFC: 5:33
EFC: 4:35
SC: 3:15
RSC:
ESC:
Eject: 2:30
Roasting Notes: Heat off 4:30; Heat on 2:35
Tasting Notes & Grade:
Batch: 2014-36
Date: 04/16/14
Source: SM LA
Purchase Date: 02/04/14
Weight In: 227
Weight Out:
Profile: SR2
Pre-Heat Instr:
Ambient Temp: 23
Humidity: 6%
FC: 7:07
RFC: 6:50
EFC: 6:00
SC: 5:04
RSC:
ESC:
Eject: 5:00
Roasting Notes: Heat off 5:58
Tasting Notes & Grade:
Same coffee, same roaster, same profile; yet batch 2 roasted much quicker than batch 1, nearly 2 1/2 minutes faster (out of a total of about 15 minutes in the roaster). And, looking back through my roasting log, there are literally hundreds of examples like this. It's incredible.
I hope I never completely figure this out. It won't be as much fun anymore. And, I can't wait to taste batch 2, on Saturday. I've never had Liquid Amber run that quickly, and, in fact, it was in such a hurry that I did not even get a chance to try to extend second crack. Should be interesting.
Shrink
macrumors G3
While I don't keep anything near the detailed log that you do, and because of my roaster there is more eyeball guesswork involved, I think the highlighted above says it all for me. The mysteries of roasting, the constant adjustments of dose, grind, pre-infusion time, and extraction time is, for me too, part of the joy of the process.
Kurwenal
macrumors 6502a
Indeed. That is the essential act: taking the data, knowledge, experience.....and then winging it. First the science, then the art. That is why, for example, my logs frequently do not include rolling SC and end of SC; at that point, I have put down the pen and am focused on doing nothing more than smelling, watching and listening. Why did I push the eject button on batch 1 at 2:30 instead of 2:28? That's an art question that science cannot answer. (In contrast, 2:30 vs. 2:50 is a science question, I think.)
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mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
Well, the temperature and humidity are different. Presumably the age of the green beans is different. There will also likely be variation in the ratios of the beans within the blend for a given batch. I don't have a good idea how apparently small deviations in these variables affect the process, but you could surely start to estimate effect sizes with your presumably large collection of data. 😉
Kurwenal
macrumors 6502a
True, true, true. But, I would not expect those small variables to produce such a big difference in the roast time. For humidity, I usually don't notice an impact until the variance exceeds 5%.
Here's what got me thinking about this today. While I make nearly all of my coffee at home, I do at times visit a local roastery/coffee shop. The good folks there roast every few days and make really a very nice cup. And they are not snooty. Of the two main barristas, one always makes a better cup than the other. I have watched both of them pull many, many shots; they have nearly identical technique and identical equipment and beans. But one is always better than the other. Why? Style. Art.
Surely there is a "scientific" answer to this, just as there is an answer for the difference between my two batches. But, I prefer to not know....everything. As much as I obsess over my data and my logs....I think I want there to be a bit more mystery. And random luck. I don't want to know what the cup tastes like before the first sip. Any more. I was jumping for joy when I saw the roasting time on the 2nd batch. I have no idea what it will taste like!
++++++
PS: how's the roasting going? Did you buy a Probat yet?
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mobilehaathi
macrumors G3
I always thought of it like this: knowing the "scientific" origin of the process only enhances appreciation of the art and style. It could never take it away.
The roasting is great! I'm getting in the habit of a regular schedule so I have a steady stream of coffee. Working my way through a Rawandan at the moment. This little popper really does surprisingly well...😛
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Thank you for your most kind wishes, and yes, I had a most pleasant day (Amarone, XO cognac and espresso to mark it, in the company of good friends and colleagues - what not to like?).
While I love coffee, for me, the world of politics offers this arcane fascination, of intersections where unknown and unpredicted combinations of facts, actions, political cultures and happenings collide which provide me with a source of endless absorption.
Back on topic, I'm on leave at the moment.
Before my departure, my boss had invited me (by text the previous evening) to an early morning pre-departure espresso (made by his recently mended, and slightly less recently acquired, - at enormous expense - professional level Jura espresso machine; inexplicably, the machine had sputtered to an undignified collapse a month or so earlier, howling in protest, but seemed to have staged a remarkable recovery); as we share a fondness for espresso, that became two.
Then the following day, in Istanbul, sitting on a charming terrace, over-looking a hazy vista over the Black Sea, where ships slowly chuntered up the Bosphoros, their outlines sketched vaguely in pale grey in the slowly dissolving haze, the Black Sea belying its name by presenting itself in shimmering shades of blue, sprinkled with gold drops from the sun I sipped an exquisitely made and served espresso, along with a glass of water and freshly squeezed orange juice. Pure bliss ...
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Re roasting, I am the sort of dilettante who has yet to graduate to buying my own grinder ..In my defence can be argued that I am currently working abroad in the sort of place where .well, I'll take a rain check on grinders, although my stars seem to suggest that one might yet appear in my home. (Fear not, worthy denizens: You shall all be consulted well in advance of any such purchase).
As for roasting for myself ..there are limits. Even for me.
And, as for my leave: Yes, thank you for asking: yes, it is both 'wished for' (fervently, very, very fervently), and most warmly 'welcomed', (with an intense thirst for the mundane ..and the simple, oft taken for granted, pleasures of life. One sees things with fresh eyes, sometimes ...).
Avatar74
macrumors 68000
Going third wave is excessive, even for coffee shops. As long as there's a decent delivery place in system where whomever you're ordering from can ship you the beans in a couple days, there's really no need to go to those lengths unless you're planning to distribute/sell quantities for others.
The best shots will be pulled anywhere within 7 to 10 days of roast, so that gives ample time to consume whatever you're ordering from a dedicated roasting operation of your choice.
A grinder at minimum helps delay the release aroma, flavor and moisture... but as most people suggest, it's a burr grinder you want as blade grinders won't get the grind fine enough for espresso...
There's a lot of varying degrees of snobbery in the "home barista" world ... you can spend ludicrous amounts of money, but there's a diminishing marginal return. Could I get a better, more consistent pull with some $2500 full manual E61 Group machine than my $700 Rancilio? Possibly... but I think from the Gaggia Classic on up, the most important thing is practice.
It's a bit like playing drums... Give a novice a $30,000 drum kit and he'll still sound terrible next to a guy who practiced 2 hours a day for the last ten years on a set of garbage cans. Granted, there's a floor... at least get a set of garbage cans that doesn't fall apart the first three times you play it. Other than that, it comes down to developing your skill and doing what works for your subjective tastes and the amount of time you have to invest in such a thing.