Espresso Enthusiasts

[mtbdudex]

Thats a widely spread myth. As we can see myth is even in the books The melting point of the compound is 235° Celsius, something one cannot reach even with Starbucks-level olive black charcoals. What actually decreases with roasting is chlorogenic acid, a specific antioxidant found in coffee beans and that some people associate with stomach issues and anecdotally claim darker roasts are better for them for this reason

I’m know nothing related to coffee bean roasting and caffeine levels, doing some reading via Wikipedia , a very enlightening read,

Coffee roasting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The article states:
“Caffeine levels are not significantly affected by the level of roast. Caffeine remains stable up to 200 °C (392 °F) and completely decomposes around 285 °C (545 °F). Given that roasting temperatures do not exceed 200 °C (392 °F) for long and rarely if ever reach 285 °C (545 °F), the caffeine content of a coffee is not likely changed much by the roasting process. Despite this, and the common misconception that darker roasts will always contain more caffeine than lighter roasts, when beans are roasted they lose water and expand. As a result, when ground and measured by volume, the denser lighter roast will contain more caffeine than the darker roast.”


Now Home roasting beans, anyone here doing it?

Home roasting:
“Home roasting coffee;
Home roasting is the process of roasting small batches of green coffee beans for personal consumption. Even after the turn of the 20th century, it was more common for at-home coffee drinkers to roast their coffee in their residence than it was to buy pre-roasted coffee. Later, home roasting faded in popularity with the rise of the commercial coffee roasting companies. In recent years home roasting of coffee has seen a revival. In some cases there is an economic advantage, but primarily it is a means to achieve finer control over the quality and characteristics of the finished product.”

 

[mtbdudex]

Visited my daughter at her apartment, we made espresso with my old machine, then played card games amongst us 6 people.

Just neat connecting thru our love of beans and stuff.

 

[Lioness~]

Had an excellent large Espresso from my absolutely delicious Mexican beans, that is on the darker side, but quite sweet - while watching the great but confusing s2 final of Silo.
I’m now reading up on that serie while finishing my cup.
Yes, the heat last that long in my cups with a lid on it.

 

[Madhatter32]

I need to cut down on coffee for medical reasons, or to be more exact, cut down on the caffeine.
Will still be able to enjoy a cuppa or two a week of oldschool coffee but thinking of replacing the rest with decaff.
I realize that asking for advice on decaff beans might be like cursing in the church here but do any of you have any experience or good advice on what to go for?

As far as I have understood there's a few different ways on getting the beans "decaffeinated".

If I was instructed by a doctor to avoid caffeine, I would most certainly do exactly what you are doing -- look for palatable decaffeinated options. I enjoy coffee way too much to just give it up. I cannot really make any recommendations though but if I were to start down that road I would first look at my current sources of beans who I know I like. I would expect the decaffeinated to be less bitter or acidic / have less dark chocolately-type notes and to be more sweet. That is okay with me. I am confident I could find something pretty good.

 

[Lioness~]

I’m know nothing related to coffee bean roasting and caffeine levels, doing some reading via Wikipedia , a very enlightening read,

Coffee roasting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The article states:
“Caffeine levels are not significantly affected by the level of roast. Caffeine remains stable up to 200 °C (392 °F) and completely decomposes around 285 °C (545 °F). Given that roasting temperatures do not exceed 200 °C (392 °F) for long and rarely if ever reach 285 °C (545 °F), the caffeine content of a coffee is not likely changed much by the roasting process. Despite this, and the common misconception that darker roasts will always contain more caffeine than lighter roasts, when beans are roasted they lose water and expand. As a result, when ground and measured by volume, the denser lighter roast will contain more caffeine than the darker roast.”


Now Home roasting beans, anyone here doing it?

Home roasting:
“Home roasting coffee;
Home roasting is the process of roasting small batches of green coffee beans for personal consumption. Even after the turn of the 20th century, it was more common for at-home coffee drinkers to roast their coffee in their residence than it was to buy pre-roasted coffee. Later, home roasting faded in popularity with the rise of the commercial coffee roasting companies. In recent years home roasting of coffee has seen a revival. In some cases there is an economic advantage, but primarily it is a means to achieve finer control over the quality and characteristics of the finished product.”

No roasting here nowadays, but quite a lot earlier, long time ago.
It smelled everywhere after doing it in the oven though.

My brother travelled everywhere and sent/brought home beans from lots of various locations.
You can store the green beans at least a very long time, to forever, before you roast them.
If I was to roast beans today I would use the popcorn machine - I've heard people do that successfully.
I recall I saw a not so small bag of green beans somewhere here, for quite some time ago - but didn’t felt compelled to use them - so I forgot where it was again. 😂

 

[mtbdudex]

No roasting here nowadays, but quite a lot earlier, long time ago.
It smelled everywhere after doing it in the oven though.

My brother travelled everywhere and sent/brought home beans from lots of various locations.
You can store the green beans at least a very long time, to forever, before you roast them.
If I was to roast beans today I would use the popcorn machine - I've heard people do that successfully.
I recall I saw a not so small bag of green beans somewhere here, for quite some time ago - but didn’t felt compelled to use them - so I forgot where it was again.

We’ve got the “real” oil based popcorn machine, so like ours shown below?
If so cool, I’ll have to try it out, just to do it.

Used to do outdoor movie nights on weekends when kids were young.

 

[Macky-Mac]

If I was instructed by a doctor to avoid caffeine, I would most certainly do exactly what you are doing -- look for palatable decaffeinated options. I enjoy coffee way too much to just give it up. I cannot really make any recommendations though but if I were to start down that road I would first look at my current sources of beans who I know I like. I would expect the decaffeinated to be less bitter or acidic / have less dark chocolately-type notes and to be more sweet. That is okay with me. I am confident I could find something pretty good.

I'll second the idea of looking to your current source of beans.

Years ago when I was drinking way too much coffee during the work day, I switched for a while to decaf. Water processed decaf was always recommenced since chemical processed decaf is said to have a residual chemical flavor from the processing....and so I always chose water processed. I've read that "Swiss Water" is a brand name for a specific water processing method, and it has a good reputation, so it's something to look for.

I always found the flavor notes to be a bit muted, but acceptable.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Like my doctor says “dark yellow pee, call me” .. well not exactly that but hydrate appropriately always and “ it’s” near clear =

There is a chart in the Rural Fire Service* urinals (don't know about the Ladies, I assume it's also there...).
It shows the range of colours of urine from "Fully Hydrated" to "Drink some bl**dy fluids now before you die".

*These are the people who fight fires out in the bush, well away from any infrastructure or support.

 

[sgtaylor5]

Physicists unlock another clue to brewing the perfect espresso

An interesting Ars Technica article about avoiding “channeling“ during espresso brewing:

Three years later, Hendon's team showed how adding a single squirt of water to coffee beans before grinding can significantly reduce the static electric charge on the resulting grounds. This in turn reduces clumping during brewing, yielding less waste and the strong, consistent flow needed to produce a tasty cup of espresso. Good baristas already employ the water trick; it's known as the Ross droplet technique. But this was the first time scientists have rigorously tested that well-known hack and measured the actual charge on different types of coffee.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoying an afternoon coffee from El Salvador, served with organic hot milk.

 

[svenmany]

Physicists unlock another clue to brewing the perfect espresso

An interesting Ars Technica article about avoiding “channeling“ during espresso brewing:

The water droplet technique was from earlier research the team did. I've never done that but might give it a go. The only conclusion I found in the article regarding their current research on channeling was

They found that, indeed, channeling adversely affected extraction yields. However, channeling does not have an impact on the rate at which water flows through the espresso puck.
<clip>
So even though water can find a preferential path, there is still significant resistance limiting the flow.

I guess the impact on people like me is that we shouldn't think that getting the correct extraction time implies anything about whether there was channeling.

Is there anything else to be gleaned from the article regarding the current research?

 

[Silencio]

When people talk about using popcorn machines to roast their own coffee, they're talking about the air poppers that had a moment in the 1980s. They don't use any oil to pop the popcorn, or roast the coffee beans — just hot air.

It's something I'd love to try at some point, but I don't want to fill up my kitchen cabinets with more gear that only rarely gets used.

 

[Lioness~]

We’ve got the “real” oil based popcorn machine, so like ours shown below?
If so cool, I’ll have to try it out, just to do it.

Used to do outdoor movie nights on weekends when kids were young.

Test what you want, but I wouldn’t use that kind of big popcorn machine to roast beans myself though.
Small popcorn machines is for small batches only and they are not so complicated.

But whatever - I’m fully enjoy my Mexican beans now.
The first beans that have had that are giving me a 'full fat taste’ that I can recall, in itself that I don’t miss any of the coconut-milk-powder in it a lot, while fasting.

When people talk about using popcorn machines to roast their own coffee, they're talking about the air poppers that had a moment in the 1980s. They don't use any oil to pop the popcorn, or roast the coffee beans — just hot air.

It's something I'd love to try at some point, but I don't want to fill up my kitchen cabinets with more gear that only rarely gets used.

Exactly, the small modern things.
Mine are small, so fortunately it’s easy to put it up where I have 'rarely machines or things used'.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoying a coffee from El Salvador (served with organic hot milk), this Friday afternoon.

 

[mtbdudex]

Trying a new bean today , on the left , jury still out on it.

 

[Lioness~]

Trying a new bean today , on the left , jury still out on it.

I’ve had both of them. Lavazza beans are never bad, but we either like stronger and/or various intensities differently.
The bag to left I don't recall exactly, was some time ago, but the Gran Crema is to my pleasing.
I even have 1kg of the GC stored in my cupboard together with a bag of the Intenso below, to use in betweeen or after the Mexican beans.
The stronger might however be better to use to latte/cappucino then the lighter, generally, obviously.
As I mostly use Coconutmilk-powder in my espresso's, I like the stronger beans - 6 and up on Lavazza's scale.

 

[leifp]

If I was instructed by a doctor to avoid caffeine, I would most certainly do exactly what you are doing -- look for palatable decaffeinated options. I enjoy coffee way too much to just give it up. I cannot really make any recommendations though but if I were to start down that road I would first look at my current sources of beans who I know I like. I would expect the decaffeinated to be less bitter or acidic / have less dark chocolately-type notes and to be more sweet. That is okay with me. I am confident I could find something pretty good.

How much do you know about the coffee you drink? That’s a serious question and not remotely flip. I’m partnered with a coffee roaster and this rabbit hole is DEEP and has many channels (hahahaaa… thanks, ArsTechnica) for coffee drinkers to go down and never meet others.

I’m going to go a bit specialist on you, apologies.

Roast levels (uselessly called “light” or “dark”, traditionally called Viennese, French, or Italian roasts once roasted past the second crack [all dark roasts as the sugars have begun to burn] and known as “third wave” when roasted past first crack but before second [the beans and the coffee are brown rather than black as the sugars have caramelized but not yet burned) and the quality of the un-roasted bean (called specialty once it reaches 80 points on the Q grader scale).

So back to the original question: what kind of coffee do you drink? That will tell me what kind of decaf you find acceptable.

 

[Madhatter32]

How much do you know about the coffee you drink? That’s a serious question and not remotely flip. I’m partnered with a coffee roaster and this rabbit hole is DEEP and has many channels (hahahaaa… thanks, ArsTechnica) for coffee drinkers to go down and never meet others.

I’m going to go a bit specialist on you, apologies.

Roast levels (uselessly called “light” or “dark”, traditionally called Viennese, French, or Italian roasts once roasted past the second crack [all dark roasts as the sugars have begun to burn] and known as “third wave” when roasted past first crack but before second [the beans and the coffee are brown rather than black as the sugars have caramelized but not yet burned) and the quality of the un-roasted bean (called specialty once it reaches 80 points on the Q grader scale).

So back to the original question: what kind of coffee do you drink? That will tell me what kind of decaf you find acceptable.

I know that I like it. I favor Hawaiian coffees generally -- usually light to medium roast -- from various regions K'au, Kona, Maui. Kauai, etc. So I suspect I would like decaffeinated coffees from those regions and producers but really do not know as I have never tried.

Since you are the specialist, please let me know what decaffeinated coffee I would like in case I ever need to go down that route. I will hold you to it. Thanks. Please do @Reverend Benny next.

 

[leifp]

I know that I like it. I favor Hawaiian coffees generally -- usually light to medium roast -- from various regions K'au, Kona, Maui. Kauai, etc. So I suspect I would like decaffeinated coffees from those regions and producers but really do not know as I have never tried.

Since you are the specialist, please let me know what decaffeinated coffee I would like in case I ever need to go down that route. I will hold you to it. Thanks. Please do @Reverend Benny next.

Hawaii is an expensive coffee producer and many of their coffees tend to be roasted from specialty beans for third wave. That means you can find weird flavour profiles (not added flavouring!) like stone fruit, candied elements, and occasionally chocolatey and nutty variants. Does that correspond to your experience?

Also: I don’t regularly check this forum (I’m here as a computer geek and hang around specialty coffee fora for that subject) so I don’t know what you mean by “do @Reverend Benny next”. He has a particular question?

 

[Madhatter32]

Hawaii is an expensive coffee producer and many of their coffees tend to be roasted from specialty beans for third wave. That means you can find weird flavour profiles (not added flavouring!) like stone fruit, candied elements, and occasionally chocolatey and nutty variants. Does that correspond to your experience?

Also: I don’t regularly check this forum (I’m here as a computer geek and hang around specialty coffee fora for that subject) so I don’t know what you mean by “do @Reverend Benny next”. He has a particular question?

Definitely no weird flavors or flavoring. I am talking about unflavored coffee (and not necessarily the flavor imbued from the roasting process either). Kona coffee, for example, is known for its smooth, balanced, and slightly nutty flavor, and often features notes of caramel, honey, and milk chocolate, with some roasts offering hints of citrus and fruit. The lighter the roast, the more citrus and fruity it usually is -- perhaps more sugar as you set forth above. The darker roast will tend more towards the caramel and chocolate notes.

As for the expense of it, sometimes you really do get what you pay for -- and, good coffee beans are not an exception. Parenthetically, this certainly does not mean less expensive coffee cannot be good. I just think it's hard to go wrong with a quality coffee bean as a starting point if you really like coffee.

Also, it was Reverend Benny who asked about finding a good decaffeinated coffee -- not me. I was merely responding to the good reverend's post.

 

[mtbdudex]

I’ve had both of them. Lavazza beans are never bad, but we either like stronger and/or various intensities differently.
The bag to left I don't recall exactly, was some time ago, but the Gran Crema is to my pleasing.
I even have 1kg of the GC stored in my cupboard together with a bag of the Intenso below, to use in betweeen or after the Mexican beans.
The stronger might however be better to use to latte/cappucino then the lighter, generally, obviously.
As I mostly use Coconutmilk-powder in my espresso's, I like the stronger beans - 6 and up on Lavazza's scale.

View attachment 2494656

Well that's a 9 of 10 intensity ... makes me wonder would we desire / even like a 10 of 10 intensity ?

 

[leifp]

Definitely no weird flavors or flavoring. I am talking about unflavored coffee (and not necessarily the flavor imbued from the roasting process either). Kona coffee, for example, is known for its smooth, balanced, and slightly nutty flavor, and often features notes of caramel, honey, and milk chocolate, with some roasts offering hints of citrus and fruit. The lighter the roast, the more citrus and fruity it usually is -- perhaps more sugar as you set forth above. The darker roast will tend more towards the caramel and chocolate notes.

As for the expense of it, sometimes you really do get what you pay for -- and, good coffee beans are not an exception. Parenthetically, this certainly does not mean less expensive coffee cannot be good. I just think it's hard to go wrong with a quality coffee bean as a starting point if you really like coffee.

Also, it was Reverend Benny who asked about finding a good decaffeinated coffee -- not me. I was merely responding to the good reverend's post.

Ah, the errors of jumping in near the end of an endless post… apologies to you both.

Glad to hear you’re a third wave drinker @Madhatter32. Not that it really matters, but that’s my niche and preference as well and what I’m best suited to answer. The purchase price of coffee, always in USD/lb (no matter where it’s purchased from nor by whom) is indeed a decent gauge for quality. But Hawaii gets an extra bump thanks to the price of life there. Regardless, there’s a minimum expense to coffee that gets used in specialty coffee and that’s around double the commodity price, with truly decent beans going for around $5/lb. At our roaster we pay between $5 and $9/lb the vast majority of the time. Occasionally higher, never lower.

Roasting per se doesn’t add flavour, except when you burn the bean. Like in wine grapes, the flavours are already in there and it’s up to the processing (how it’s dried) and roasting to draw out the preferred flavours of the roaster. If you ever have the opportunity to try the same bean from different roasters (something we’ve done in the past), it’s eye-opening just how much the roaster impacts what ends up in the cup. The same goes for lots processed one way versus another (honey vs washed, anaerobic time, etc).

Sorry for the rabbit hole. I leap down those a lot when talking about coffee…

@Reverend Benny

There are four principal methods for decaffeinating beans (water, ethyl acetate, dichloromethane, and carbon dioxide). Without getting into the politics of it, any of them is suitable to specialty coffee and none of them have residues of the process that remain post roast.

Do you mind answering the same question as Madhatter32? What sorts of coffee make up your preferred daily drink?

 

[Lioness~]

Well that's a 9 of 10 intensity ... makes me wonder would we desire / even like a 10 of 10 intensity ?

Might be the last step before the beans start to catch fire, or something like that.
I've had at least 1 or 2 failures, with beans that I roasted myself, I have to admit. One time it did catsh some fire in the oven. Not that bad that I had to call the firedepartment.
Those beams never made it to the cup, however 🔥😫

 

[Expos of 1969]

Might be the last step before the beans start to catch fire, or something like that.
I've had at least 1 or 2 failures, with beans that I roasted myself, I have to admit. One time it did catsh some fire in the oven. Not that bad that I had to call the firedepartment.
Those beams never made it to the cup, however 🔥😫

Not coffee related but fire related: Never put fatty raw bacon in the microwave on paper towel as that easily goes up in flames and if you put hard taco shells in a toaster oven to get warm, watch them and do not go in another room to chat with guests as the taco shells can create flames.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Just finished the last of my coffee from El Salvador, and now, about to enjoy an afternoon coffee from Costa Rica.