EU Reportedly Planning to Charge Apple for Violating Digital Markets Act

[playtech1]

Imagine being barely out of high school, sitting your garage, broke, no friends except for one other nerd. And the two of you decide, hey, we have skills in engineering and marketing, why don't we start building and selling our own computers? So you do. And through blood, sweat, hard work and sacrifice, you end up becoming the biggest company--stock wise--in computing history, three decades later.

Why do you deserve to have things taken from you at that point? Why should you be punished for being the best at what you do to the point where people don't want to buy anything else? If customers are happy (and sales of Apple products show they are, by in large, quite happy), then what's the reasoning? What's the inherent sin?

In my opinion, you should not be punished for succeeding.

Ever.

Is the argument you are making that there should be no tax or regulation of companies that were once small or are successful?

I think the billionaire Steve Jobs was well rewarded and Woz did pretty well too.

The EU isn't punishing Apple, it's trying to set the rules of the digital world in its territory, rather than letting the companies do that.

 

[surferfb]

Good news, considering how Apple “implemented” the DMA provisions so far.

And for those of you suggesting Apple should just leave the EU, consider this, from iPhone’s new best friend:

View attachment 2388939

Europe != EU, as has been stated repeatedly in this thread. Europe, for Apple's purpose, includes the non-EU members UK, Switzerland, and the entire Middle East, among other countries. App Store revenue from the EU is around 7%, so I assume that is probably around the percentage of all revenue that comes from there.

 

[@Brett]

"Company blatantly disregarding the clear and easy to understand intent and spirit of the regulation"

Spirit of regulation? EU is starting to act like a cartel. Clearly not interested in the consumer but how much money they can get from foreign companies. And trying to help EU companies that struggle to compete. Spotify for instance is the world’s biggest music streaming service. So I’m sure they need all the help they can get.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Imagine being barely out of high school, sitting your garage, broke, no friends except for one other nerd. And the two of you decide, hey, we have skills in engineering and marketing, why don't we start building and selling our own computers? So you do. And through blood, sweat, hard work and sacrifice, you end up becoming the biggest company--stock wise--in computing history, three decades later.

Why do you deserve to have things taken from you at that point? Why should you be punished for being the best at what you do to the point where people don't want to buy anything else? If customers are happy (and sales of Apple products show they are, by in large, quite happy), then what's the reasoning? What's the inherent sin?

This one is easy. One of the markets you do business in passes new legislation that effects your industry. All you have to do is, gee I dunno, follow the law.

In my opinion, you should not be punished for succeeding.

Ever.

This line of thinking can go to a very dark place very quickly. I believe that anyone that breaks the law should pay a fair price for what they have done.

Nobody's punishing anyone for being successful. Apple is being punished for violating the law. That's all there is to it.

 

[H2SO4]

The EU are overreaching not just in big tech but other industries too and levelling outrageous fines against businesses.

They need to fill that huge gaping hole in their finances previously plugged by Britain before Brexit.

Good luck to Apple with this, reckon they’ll come out top here.

You mean pinhole, not gaping hole.

 

[one more]

Europe != EU, as has been stated repeatedly in this thread. Europe, for Apple's purpose, includes the non-EU members UK, Switzerland, and the entire Middle East, among other countries. App Store revenue from the EU is around 7%, so I assume that is probably around the percentage of all revenue that comes from there.

It does not matter as the US, the UK, Turkey, Australia, Brazil, India and Japan are currently working on similar laws. It is just a question of time now.

 

[strongy]

the eu invented dma just to extort money this is obvious.

 

[Johnny Steps]

I really don’t get it; they’re mad at Apple, who made their own phone and software, for not allowing third party stores for free? Don’t companies pay for a shelf to sell their own food product in grocery store?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

the eu invented dma just to extort money this is obvious.

Getting all those unpaid taxes back from Apple.

 

[strongy]

Getting all those unpaid taxes back from Apple.

their was NO unpaid taxes they paid exactly what Ireland asked them too so you are spouting rubbish

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

their was NO unpaid taxes they paid exactly what Ireland asked them too so you are spouting rubbish

Yes what Ireland asked.

The EU says member states cannot give tax benefits to selected companies.

 

[strongy]

Yes what Ireland asked.

The EU says member states cannot give tax benefits to selected companies.

so they paid all their taxes to the government making your statement irrelevant.

 

[NagasakiGG]

US people still be like: iF yOu DoNt LiKe It JuSt BuY aNdRoId and If YoU aRe PoOr AnD cAnT aFfOrD 100k BiLl YoU dOnT dEsErVe MeDiCaL tReAtMeNt

 

[surferfb]

US people still be like: iF yOu DoNt LiKe It JuSt BuY aNdRoId and If YoU aRe PoOr AnD cAnT aFfOrD 100k BiLl YoU dOnT dEsErVe MeDiCaL tReAtMeNt

This US person:
If you don't like a walled garden, buy android. I like Apple BECAUSE of the restrictions they put up.
Also, our healthcare system is absolute crap. No argument there.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

so they paid all their taxes to the government making your statement irrelevant.

They made an illegal tax deal with an EU member state, so no.

 

[Think|Different]

The favorite company grew into richest company in the world... but did not evolve its business practices to avoid GOVs needing to get involved. History shows how this goes and it goes the SAME way EVERY time.

In Capitalism, the great core love of the system is robust competition. Robust competition spurs sellers to innovate to try to woo share from other competitors... and it pressures prices down for the same goods as competitors try to woo share there too. There's wins for both sellers & buyers when it is able to function correctly.

When the competition thins out and someone is basically roaring into a dominant hold on some part of some market, either that company proactively evolves their business practices towards raising all boats or GOV will come. GOV is the "last resort" play... and this is the last resort play in these countries where these laws are put into play.

Some of "us" will HATE this, rip it to shreds, etc... but it's mostly Apple's own doing. History tells the very same story many times. Pretty much every company in history makes the same (decision) mistake when they ascend into or near the top of this mountain. And then GOV finally drops a generally laissez faire approach to that company in an attempt- or sometimes several/many- to reel them in and re-establish some tangible competition for consumers.

Some freak because Apple is in the cross hairs but I bet they would argue very differently when it is Googles turn, or Microsofts or <other>. I too wish that it did not come to this... I wish GOV was not involved... but that required Apple to recognize they were ascending to the "richest" throne and needed to evolve business practices upwards of a couple of years ago. Now they pay the price where GOVs- instead of Apple- get to decide how that evolution will go.

GOV is the only entity with the resources and endless well of legal power to overpower the deep, deep, DEEP well of Apple's power. GOV could fight this for a thousand years but no corp could stall the inevitable for that long.

Best play is not just comply with the letter of the law (even if technically that is what is required) but comply with the spirit of the law... in very tangible ways... which may have some short-term revenue pain but will likely grow goodwill as the core to the "benevolent king" shift involves raising all boats. In complying with the spirit of the law, they may take the cross hairs off themselves and entities like the EU may shift to others who need the same "spanking"... and other countries who will inevitably follow with similar laws if Apple doesn't evolve... may opt to leave Apple alone and focus on others rapidly ascending to the top of their hills.

Else, keep fighting/testing the law/finagling around the edges/flirting in gray area interpretations... and GOVs will keep responding/amending/fining/amending/fining again/amending/etc until the Corp finally gives in and complies. Get it done ASAP and move on or fight a battle that will almost certainly be lost... as have all before Apple who tried to cling to practices at the root of why the GOV opted to take action.

Uhh, okay, thanks a lot, ChatGPT!

 

[strongy]

They made an illegal tax deal with an EU member state, so no.

you mean the court case they lost, sounds like they wanted money just like they invented the dma

 

[hesoba]

Y'all defend and worship a company who runs sweatshops in china over a regulation which we all benefit from. Funny people

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

you mean the court case they lost and appealed and still lost.

Case not closed yet, Apple certainly haven't won it.

Apple and the Irish Government have suffered a major setback in a long-running campaign by the European Commission for the iPhone maker to pay the Republic more than €13 billion of alleged back taxes.

A key adviser to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) has recommended that the EU’s highest court set aside a 2020 ruling by a lower court that the commission had failed to prove that the tax was owed at all.

In his opinion, advocate general Giovanni Pitruzzella said the EU general court, the lower court, committed a series of errors of law and also failed to assess “certain methodological errors” relating to Apple’s Irish tax liabilities.

Mr Pitruzzella proposes that the ECJ refer the case back to the general for a new decision on the merits.

The opinion gives an indication of the final outcome of case, as the views of advocate generals in ECJ cases are typically followed by the court when it makes final rulings.

Apple tax: iPhone maker and Government suffer major setback in €13bn EU case

Opinion of key advisor to European Court of Justice comes months ahead of final ruling on world’s biggest antitrust case

www.irishtimes.com

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Didn't I call this? Didn't I say this was going to happen? This was never about consumer rights, or protection. It's corruption. Pockets are being lined. The game is rigged. And until Cook decides to pull an Elon or a Jobs and tells them to go stuff themselves, it's not going to stop. They will keep finding new ways to come after them. One annoying and pointless thing after another.

Labeling these laws, and the fees for not complying with them, as "annoying" and "pointless" only proves you don't grasp the concept of having a balance between the interests of businesses and the interests of consumers, governments, and society on a large scale.

Our European countries/societies have multitudes of financial, infrastructural and social interests that need to be considered.

There won't be any special laws or exemptions for Apple just because they are the World's biggest company.

Also, reality check -Apple isn't building our roads, aiding in our efforts to lower greenhouse emissions, or making the weapons we're sending to Ukraine.

Apple is just consumer electronics and services, nothing essential. We'll be just fine should Apple "pull an Elon".

 

[PlayUltimate]

Or they could just become compliant - I mean their rev in the EU isn't chump change.

But their profit & revenue could go down substantially if App Store revenue is significantly affected. And honestly, any change to the App Store will result in a change in Apple European Revenue.

 

[Cesar Battistini]

Not the government stealing again =///

 

[AppliedMicro]

The EU Commission designed these laws following extensive, multi-year lobbying by Microsoft and other competitors of Apple.

Microsoft?

First, they are very much affected by the regulation themselves substantially (Windows)
Second, they aren‘t much competing with Apple‘s main affected product/services, namely iPhones/iOS - and they discontinued their music streaming service. And I‘m certain they aren’t worried about Apple‘s iWork apps as competition for Office.
Third, there is little evidence of Microsoft (of all companies) being a big lobbier on this (unlike Spotify or Match).

👉🏻 It does not even make sense that it was Microsoft. Seems a misguided attempt at namedropping.

The EU is only targeting foreign mostly American companies to try and balance their budgets.

How so?

Inflated prices and lower competition mean higher VAT revenue!? Competition that lowers prices/commissions doesn‘t.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

One billion is not enough. It must really hurt Apple financially. Imagine you ride a train without a ticket and if you get caught, you have to pay the ticket price. That will not stop you from riding the train without a ticket the next time. To make people buy a ticket, the fine for not doing that has to be so substantial that it is not worth the risk.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Y'all defend and worship a company who runs sweatshops in china over a regulation which we all benefit from. Funny people

Years of indoctrination to loathe the American government and worship an untethered free market has made Americans think like this.

The Big Myth: How American Business Taught Us to Loathe Government and Love the Free Market

The Big Myth: How American Business Taught Us to Loathe Government and Love the Free Market

www.amazon.com

The arguments against the DMA is really about their deep(!) hate for the U.S. government, not the EU.

Sad.