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the entire mobile app market exists only because Apple created the iPhone and then created an App Store

"Creating an App Store" in no way creates a thriving third party App ecosystem

See:

"Mac App Store" ... created by the same company and stuffed full of e-junk and garbage Apps

Why?


Same company with arbitrary nonsense rules and business terms that developers aren't forced to use
(thank god or the Mac would be dead)
 
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This is absolutely true. It's also true that the entire mobile app market exists only because Apple created the iPhone and then created an App Store that eliminated almost all of the risk to the end-user for purchasing, downloading and installing an app on their personal computing device. The entire paradigm was created by Apple in the mid-to-late naughts.
What you said above is true. Apple took a risk, maybe more of a gamble along with a vision. Their gamble paid off. There was of course no guarantees as to how this would turn out. But it turned into a thriving ecosystem. And as time went on, apple managed the App Store how they believe it should be managed. After all it’s their App Store.
 
"Creating an App Store" in no way creates a thriving third party App ecosystem

See:

"Mac App Store" ... created by the same company and stuffed full of e-junk and garbage Apps

Why?

Same company with arbitrary nonsense rules and business terms that developers aren't forced to use
(thank god or the Mac would be dead)
You must not be old enough to remember the world of of third-party software applications prior to the iPhone, because the software development market that everyone is arguing about here did not exist prior to the iPhone's App Store. It did not exist.

Operating System upgrades were not free. Not even for Macs. This meant the adoption rate for OS upgrades was low. This meant third-party app developers could also choose their own pace for making their apps compatible or not compatible with new operating systems. This meant consumers were well advised to research hardware and software compatibility before purchasing an app. Actually, most were called "programs" back then, before Apple popularized the term "App" for its "App Store." Particularly in the Windows world, a new program could potentially have issues with the OS, the hardware (including endless peripherals), and even with other applications running on the same machine. Online software distribution was new and buying from anyone but top-tier well-known software companies was a crapshoot if you wanted to avoid viruses and bloatware. Standardization of user interfaces was pretty minimal, so new software usually came with a thick instruction manual. App developers had to write those materials, arrange for production of physical media and documentation and either find a distributor or pack and ship things DIY. They also had to handle customer service, and if not paying to go through a distributor, create and manage a point-of-sale system. This all meant that App Developers had significant up-front costs as a barrier to market entry. Mark-ups necessary to recoup those costs meant that pretty much any app would be expensive for the consumer.

Apple's App Store completely changed that paradigm. It eliminated most of those up-front costs for the developer, making it possible to create and sell apps for 99 cents. This also eliminated all the risks for consumers to try someone's new app. With no worries about cost, compatibility or figuring out how to use an app, even a brand new developer could come up with a hit and go from zero to overnight success, literally. That's definitely not guaranteed, but it absolutely can and does happen. None of that was possible prior to the iPhone's App Store.
 
You must not be old enough to remember the world of of third-party software applications prior to the iPhone, because the software development market that everyone is arguing about here did not exist prior to the iPhone's App Store. It did not exist.

I wouldn't quite go that far. While Apple's App Store and Android Market (now Google Play store) both greatly increased the popularity of app stores, mobile app stores similar to today's existed before the iPhone.

From Wikipedia:
In September 2003, Danger Inc. released an over-the-air update for T-Mobile Sidekick devices which included a new catalog application called Download Fun, also known as the Catalog or Premium Download Manager (PDM). This was one of the first modern app stores on a smartphone with a framework similar to what we see today with the other App Stores. The Download Fun catalog allowed users to download ringtones and applications directly to their device and be billed through their wireless carrier. Third party developers could develop native Java based applications using Danger's free SDK and submit them for distribution in the Catalog.

In October 2003, Handango introduced an on-device app store for finding, installing and buying software for Sony Ericsson P800 and P900 devices. App download and purchasing are completed directly on the device so sync with a computer is not necessary. Description, rating and screenshot are available for any app.

In 2006, Nokia introduced Nokia Catalogs, later known as Nokia Download!, for Symbian smartphones which had access to downloadable apps—originally via third-parties like Handango or Jamba! but from mid-2006 Nokia were offering their own content via the Nokia Content Discoverer.
 
That is some first-rate spin right there! A fee for service is now defined as ‘charging for not denying access’!
Conducting in-app transactions through Apple's In-App purchasing system is a service.
Letting app developers communicate to customers and conducting transactions elsewhere is not a service.

It may have been Apple's right to deny them based on their "house rules" for the App Store.
Right up until the law mandated them otherwise.

That is, you know, the European Union's "house rules" for gatekeepers in the digital space.
Airlines are charging travelers for “not denying access” to their destinations!
No - they are charging for a transportation service. But when Spotify or Epic Games conduct transactions with customers directly on their own website, Apple are not providing a service.
Why do I have to pay my ISP just to “not deny access” to the internet?
They're providing a service to you. Apple does not when the transaction does not happen through them.
 
It is being given away because apple cannot monetize their up the way they want
It is not given away.
Being limited in how you can monetise doesn't mean "given away".

Because giving away means "to give something to someone without asking for payment".
Yet Apple can and do ask for money.
Seriously, this “not denying access” argument is essentially an assertion that Apple is like mafia setting up a protection racket, using real or implied force to charge people for something they would otherwise have for free if Apple wasn’t there.
...they require to stay relevant and compete fairly in the market.
"Protection racket" is a very appropriate description.

Apple provides a platform of such quality that it attracts customers who are much more willing to pay for apps and services. (...)

So no, Apple is not inserting themselves between app developers and their customers just to “charge for not denying access” while providing nothing of actual value.
Apple does not "own" their consumers.
Yet they're charging and impose terms as if they did.

The DMA was created to curb that back and provide a healthier balance between their power and third-party developers.
 
I wouldn't quite go that far. While Apple's App Store and Android Market (now Google Play store) both greatly increased the popularity of app stores, mobile app stores similar to today's existed before the iPhone.

From Wikipedia:
In September 2003, Danger Inc. released an over-the-air update for T-Mobile Sidekick devices which included a new catalog application called Download Fun, also known as the Catalog or Premium Download Manager (PDM). This was one of the first modern app stores on a smartphone with a framework similar to what we see today with the other App Stores. The Download Fun catalog allowed users to download ringtones and applications directly to their device and be billed through their wireless carrier. Third party developers could develop native Java based applications using Danger's free SDK and submit them for distribution in the Catalog.

In October 2003, Handango introduced an on-device app store for finding, installing and buying software for Sony Ericsson P800 and P900 devices. App download and purchasing are completed directly on the device so sync with a computer is not necessary. Description, rating and screenshot are available for any app.

In 2006, Nokia introduced Nokia Catalogs, later known as Nokia Download!, for Symbian smartphones which had access to downloadable apps—originally via third-parties like Handango or Jamba! but from mid-2006 Nokia were offering their own content via the Nokia Content Discoverer.
Those on-device app stores did part of what I’m talking about, but didn’t do nearly what Apple's App Store did to eliminate risk for users to try apps from unknown developers. Like so many other things, Apple’s innovation here is in taking existing elements and creating a new paradigm that didn’t exist before and becomes the gold standard for a new product category. The iPod, iTunes, iPhone, App Store, iPad, and Apple Watch are all examples of this. Each had predecessors that you can confirm were “first,” but all of those predecessors look like half-baked prototypes by comparison. So yes, there were earlier online app stores, but they fundamentally lacked what Apple built that created a trillion dollar app development industry that did not exist before.
 
It is not given away.
Being limited in how you can monetise doesn't mean "given away".

Because giving away means "to give something to someone without asking for payment".
Yet Apple can and do ask for money.

...they require to stay relevant and compete fairly in the market.
"Protection racket" is a very appropriate description.


Apple does not "own" their consumers.
Yet they're charging and impose terms as if they did.

The DMA was created to curb that back and provide a healthier balance between their power and third-party developers.
Everything you said above points to the dma giving away apples ip. “Curbing” something back means apple cant use its intellectual property the way they want.
 
Curbing” something back means apple cant use its intellectual property the way they want.
Ownership of „property“ does not mean you can use it any and every way you want. There are legal restrictions and obligations on use and exploitation of property (and now a few more on Apple).

They don’t mean property is „given away“. You evidently don‘t know or chose to ignore and distort the meaning of „giving away“ to emphasise your points here.
 
Ownership of „property“ does not mean you can use it any and every way you want.
When one can use your property, eg App Store and tomorrow by regulation your neighbor can use your property too that is exactly what is happening. Your property is being given away for free.
There are legal restrictions and obligations on use and exploitation of property (and now a few more on Apple).
There have been bad regulations crafted in this instance with regard to that. You are allowed to exploit your property legally.
They don’t mean property is „given away“. You evidently don‘t know or chose to ignore and distort the meaning of „giving away“ to emphasise your points here.
You are twisting things around to make it seem less than it is.
 

An article published by The Wall Street Journal today ended with an interesting point raised by a Microsoft spokesman regarding the security of the Windows operating system. The spokesman, while not quoted verbatim, is said to have told the WSJ that a 2009 deal with the European Commission is the reason why Microsoft can't lock down its operating system more to boost security.

It looks like we may be starting to see the unintended consequences of regulation rear its ugly head here.
 
I believe I used Costco as an example where they sell their own brand along. Government did not come along and force Costco to accept Sam’s club brands. Additionally government didn’t legislate that Sam’s club can sell their brands and not pay Costco any fees.
This is a bad analogy because we aren't talking about forcing Apple to let whatever apps into the App Store.
 
Sigh. It’s probably the fifth time someone has used that retort on me. I disagree that iOS is the town, smartphones are. And there is a perfectly nice mall across the street that allows other stores. So just go shop at that one.
"If you don't like being spit on, then just walk away."
 
To that are you saying the government has never introduced bad legislation? But yeah this legislation is not for then consumers it’s an illusion of choice.
"You see this law that'd open up your ability to sideload apps? Yeah, well, it's not actually doing that."
 
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Regulated markets, such as the ones now introduced don’t function well either and they function worse than free markets.
"Regulation" is a meaningless term when it's used in a clearly ideological way. In fact, this distincton between "free markets" and "regulated markets" is downright useless. The intuitive and natural lens is to view each law separately and not against the backdrop of "markets". Do we do it with laws againat murder, privacy, copyright, or animal cruelty? No, we don't.
 
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Using my example, if the government said “If you want to sell your novels in the EU, you must allow others to write stories in the sci-fi universe you created without paying you what you think it’s worth” I would consider that theft, not a “gentle restriction” of my rights.
That wouldn't be theft. It might be copyright infringement, but it also doesn't constitute you being forced to do anything because the EU government(s) would just be *refraining* from enforcing copyright restrictions. IOW, it's a lessening of restrictions.
Here the government is saying “If you want to sell iPhones in the EU you must allow third parties to use your intellectual property, without paying you what you think it is worth.” I consider that theft.
It's still unclear what the IP in question is.
But it’s very clear the EU has a problem with Apple being compensated for its IP by developers who aren’t using the App Store. And before you say it, the developer fee is not a license for Apple’s IP.
Is this concerning Apple charging developers a fee to distribute outside of the App Store? That's tangential to banning device lockdown.
If Android had the same restrictions as iOS you’d have a better argument, but Android does everything you want.
"Go elsewhere" arguments are always bad.
But the EU is forcing Apple to accept Android’s model, which as @applezulu eloquently explained will make things worse for consumers.
Gee, that's pretty paternalist.
 
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Also, claiming these rules should only apply to “general purpose” computers, and not game consoles, is completely arbitrary.
Nah. We can perceive the difference.
Y’all act like the market isn’t free. It is.
And totally irrelevant when addressing a complaint about what behavior should be legal.
If you don’t like Apple, buy a competitor’s product. Vote with your wallet.
This is a terrible argument and is only hsed when someone has no better argument. If someone believes that some practice should not be illegal, it doesn't satisfy their goal to just avoid the people who engage in that practice.
Forcing change on a company, simply because you like some parts of it but not others, is ridiculous.
Right. Instead, we support these laws because we think they are good.
 
Tim Cook should have done what I have been saying from the beginning. Stop selling iPhone's in the EU and sell Android phones instead.

Tim Cook can still charge the same 30% commission fee without having to do the work to maintain iOS.

Samsung is doing the same thing.

You can probably make Android looks like iOS too if you try. Apple was even suing Samsung at some point of trying to copy iOS with Android.
 
"Regulation" is a meaningless term when it's used in a clearly ideological way. In fact, this distincton between "free markets" and "regulated markets" is downright useless. The intuitive and natural lens is to view each law separately and not against the backdrop of "markets". Do we do it with laws againat murder, privacy, copyright, or animal cruelty? No, we don't.
This is not a philosophy class. It’s a commentary on laws which imo are meant to stifle rather than encourage competition.
 
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