Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jm31828]

At 50% brightness with 75% white point the pulsation coefficient is 13.1% (iPhone 12), while at standard white point settings even the maximum pulsation coefficient is 10% (around 25% brightness). Therefore, it is probably advisable not to use white point reduction in 12 and 12 Pro. It will be better to simply lower the brightness down to 0% (although of course in completely dark rooms this will still not be enough and the screen will be too bright, then you still have to reduce the white point and try to find the right compromise). Apparently, in order to maintain color accuracy while reducing the white point, the manufacturer is forced to increase the pulsation level. Good luck with trying! I also have my fingers crossed awaiting of the start of sales 12 Pro Max.

OK- I guess I was misreading the reduce white point section.
For the 12, it says:

White point 50 %
1. 100 % - 7.5 %
2. 75 % - 9.1 %
3. 50 % - 10.7 %
4. 25 % - 11.6 %
5. 0 % - 9.8 %

My understanding was that this meant if I had brightness at 100%, and reduce white point set to 50%, then the total pulsation coefficient would be 7.5%. is this truly a matter of adding 7.5% to the 6.8% coefficient for the 100% brightness level on its own?

 

[VadimVV]

OK- I guess I was misreading the reduce white point section.
For the 12, it says:

White point 50 %
1. 100 % - 7.5 %
2. 75 % - 9.1 %
3. 50 % - 10.7 %
4. 25 % - 11.6 %
5. 0 % - 9.8 %

My understanding was that this meant if I had brightness at 100%, and reduce white point set to 50%, then the total pulsation coefficient would be 7.5%. is this truly a matter of adding 7.5% to the 6.8% coefficient for the 100% brightness level on its own?

Yes you are right, the total pulsation coefficient would be 7.5% at 100% brightness and 50% white point. This might be a good compromise. But I don't remember which would be brighter - 75% brightness at standard white point or 100% brightness at 50% white point, it is possible that these will be very similar final brightness levels. This measuring device can also measure the brightness level, I do not have access to 12 now, so I measured on my 8 Plus - at 100% brightness and 50% white point, the final brightness measured by the device is 70 Cd/m2, while 75% brightness at standard white point is 63 Cd/m2 . Maybe on OLED screen 12 it will be different. I think it will be easy by sensations to understand at which settings the brightness will be more optimal.

 

[TDDM]

I tested the regular 11 also, it showed the same good results as the 8 Plus. I also saw messages from some of those who normally used 8 Plus, reported issues when using 11.

Ah, okay. I get similar symptoms from the XR and 11, and I was curious if they happened to have a higher % like the X/XS/11 Pro, etc. No problem with the 7, 7+, 8, etc though, guess it’s something else causing the strain. Thanks anyway 😁

 

[Roadstar]

I tested the regular 11 also, it showed the same good results as the 8 Plus. I also saw messages from some of those who normally used 8 Plus, reported issues when using 11. Perhaps this is somehow related to a lower PPI or a narrower screen and because of this, a smaller font on the standard settings. I also noticed that the regular 11 has colder colors even with True Tone enabled, while the 8 Plus has significantly warmer colors with True Tone enabled. Many manufacturers or software tools now suggest filtering the blue spectrum, especially in low light, as it can negatively affect the eyes and well-being.

I had the 11 for a bit over a month, and initially I was OK with it, but then the headaches started getting more and more frequent especially if I used it in the dark. It could be the temporal dithering that was brought up in another thread, but I can’t rule out FaceID either. For after all, my eyes hurt instantly when I tried the iris scanner back in the Galaxy S8+ days. That combined with the fact that especially dark environments (where my pupils are more dilated to take in more light and IR as well) triggered headaches for me made me suspect that FaceID might have something to do with it. I’m regularly wearing glasses with a coating that filters out blue light, so that vector shouldn’t be contributing too much.

 

[jm31828]

Yes you are right, the total pulsation coefficient would be 7.5% at 100% brightness and 50% white point. This might be a good compromise. But I don't remember which would be brighter - 75% brightness at standard white point or 100% brightness at 50% white point, it is possible that these will be very similar final brightness levels. This measuring device can also measure the brightness level, I do not have access to 12 now, so I measured on my 8 Plus - at 100% brightness and 50% white point, the final brightness measured by the device is 70 Cd/m2, while 75% brightness at standard white point is 63 Cd/m2 . Maybe on OLED screen 12 it will be different. I think it will be easy by sensations to understand at which settings the brightness will be more optimal.

thanks again for the discussion! This is great information to have for a starting point when making the adjustments when I get the phone on Friday, to see what seems to work best for me.
On my 11 (non pro), I keep brightness down to 20% or less due to sensitivity to the bright light, so I will be tweaking to balance that with keeping PWM flicker to a minimum on the new 12 Mini. Hoping the smaller size of the device will be a positive, too, given that it is a smaller display shining light and flickering in my face.

 

[VadimVV]

I had the 11 for a bit over a month, and initially I was OK with it, but then the headaches started getting more and more frequent especially if I used it in the dark. It could be the temporal dithering that was brought up in another thread, but I can’t rule out FaceID either. For after all, my eyes hurt instantly when I tried the iris scanner back in the Galaxy S8+ days. That combined with the fact that especially dark environments (where my pupils are more dilated to take in more light and IR as well) triggered headaches for me made me suspect that FaceID might have something to do with it. I’m regularly wearing glasses with a coating that filters out blue light, so that vector shouldn’t be contributing too much.

Yes, really curious what could be the reason. I don't know if it is possible to somehow measure the flashes from FaceID, most likely that they are too short and emit too little light. I've seen some even try to tape the FaceID completely to test it. There may be not one, but several reasons, influencing different people to varying degrees.

 

[jm31828]

Yes, really curious what could be the reason. I don't know if it is possible to somehow measure the flashes from FaceID, most likely that they are too short and emit too little light. I've seen some even try to tape the FaceID completely to test it. There may be not one, but several reasons, influencing different people to varying degrees.

But if faceID and the attention awareness features are turned off, is there still something that is flashing at us that could be a problem? I have read that some people turned all of those off, and still had some kind of trouble.

 

[Roadstar]

Yes, really curious what could be the reason. I don't know if it is possible to somehow measure the flashes from FaceID, most likely that they are too short and emit too little light. I've seen some even try to tape the FaceID completely to test it. There may be not one, but several reasons, influencing different people to varying degrees.

Yep, if there had been also TouchID on the phone, I would’ve tried that. However, the thought of constantly punching in my passcode, 1password master password and many other passcodes would’ve just resulted in me avoiding to use the phone and therefore making it hard to compare the effect with a wildly different usage pattern.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Ouch! These results show the 12 Pro Series being almost the same as the 11 Pro Series at usable brightness. Doesn't bode well for my 12 Pro Max order......😩
Will report back over the weekend 🤞
Going to assume the Galaxy Fold 2, which would my alternative choice, will have similar issues with PWM?

 

[VadimVV]

Ouch! These results show the 12 Pro Series being almost the same as the 11 Pro Series at usable brightness. Doesn't bode well for my 12 Pro Max order......😩
Will report back over the weekend 🤞
Going to assume the Galaxy Fold 2, which would my alternative choice, will have similar issues with PWM?

After today's 2 minute horrible experience with the Galaxy S20 Plus in the store, I no longer trust Samsung. While other manufacturers are at least trying to do something to minimize the negative effects of PWM, it looks like Samsung is completely indifferent to all this. OnePlus perhaps do the most in order to preserve all the advantages of OLED and at the same time not create issues for customers.

 

[usmaak]

After today's 2 minute horrible experience with the Galaxy S20 Plus in the store, I no longer trust Samsung. While other manufacturers are at least trying to do something to minimize the negative effects of PWM, it looks like Samsung is completely indifferent to all this. OnePlus perhaps do the most in order to preserve all the advantages of OLED and at the same time not create issues for customers.

I don't think that they care because they don't have to. They're Samsung. They are a giant and we are bothersome gnats.

 

[one more]

Ah, okay. I get similar symptoms from the XR and 11, and I was curious if they happened to have a higher % like the X/XS/11 Pro, etc. No problem with the 7, 7+, 8, etc though, guess it’s something else causing the strain. Thanks anyway 😁

Try disabling FaceID attention-related features and see if this helps? It seemed to have fixed it for me when I moved from 7 to 11.

 

[VadimVV]

I don't think that they care because they don't have to. They're Samsung. They are a giant and we are bothersome gnats.

Bothersome gnats with noflickering iPhones please.))

Flicker-Free has become mainstream and accepted among monitors, hopefully those days will come again for iphones.

 

[TDDM]

Try disabling FaceID attention-related features and see if this helps? It seemed to have fixed it for me when I moved from 7 to 11.

Unfortunately, I’d tried everything up to turning Face ID off and actually blocking the sensors with thick tape, no dice. There’s just something about these new Apple screens in general that messes with some of our eyes. For example, I can’t use any device with an A12 or better without some kind of eye strain, based on my experience. It’s not necessarily the chip, it’s more whatever they added alongside it (New graphic features or something IMO)

 

[Danconia]

Unfortunately, I’d tried everything up to turning Face ID off and actually blocking the sensors with thick tape, no dice. There’s just something about these new Apple screens in general that messes with some of our eyes. For example, I can’t use any device with an A12 or better without some kind of eye strain, based on my experience. It’s not necessarily the chip, it’s more whatever they added alongside it (New graphic features or something IMO)

Your experience seems to be exactly like mine. I am a huge Apple fan and had every iPhone prior to the X. I was part of this thread when the original X came out, which I had to return. I then tried the XR because LCD, but that was just as hard on my eyes. Rinse and repeat even with iPads.

I was contacted by Apple’s “Safety”?? Department about the issue some years ago and they stated they had cases open with other people as well with eye issues, but nothing came of it.

I now hold onto a cracked screen 8+ and a 2017 12.9 IPP but need a new iPhone and would love to try the new iPad Air 4 or IPP 12.9 but I just cannot go through the amount of eye strain that happens when i test out a new device. It seems to affect me for days even after the exposure. I recently bought a new MacBook Air and the jury is still out on that one. Is there anything that can be guaranteed safe like the 8+?

 

[jm31828]

Your experience seems to be exactly like mine. I am a huge Apple fan and had every iPhone prior to the X. I was part of this thread when the original X came out, which I had to return. I then tried the XR because LCD, but that was just as hard on my eyes. Rinse and repeat even with iPads.

I was contacted by Apple’s “Safety”?? Department about the issue some years ago and they stated they had cases open with other people as well with eye issues, but nothing came of it.

I now hold onto a cracked screen 8+ and a 2017 12.9 IPP but need a new iPhone and would love to try the new iPad Air 4 or IPP 12.9 but I just cannot go through the amount of eye strain that happens when i test out a new device. It seems to affect me for days even after the exposure. I recently bought a new MacBook Air and the jury is still out on that one. Is there anything that can be guaranteed safe like the 8+?

Sorry to hear that. . Does it bother both eyes pretty evenly, and is it something where you know right away- within a few minutes- if a particular phone is going to bother you?

I was just thinking out loud, if you would be able to buy one of the new 12 series and try it out for a few days to see if you are OK with it, before the 14 day return period is up. I'd heard someone once say that 14 days was not enough time to know, but I know for myself I would know within a day or two.

 

[karinatwork]

I was one of the earlier posters to this thread since I had to return my iPhone X because of headaches after continued use. I got my first headache about 2 days after using the device. I picked up my iPhone 12 on Saturday afternoon. I set it up and then used it like I would use my phone regularly. Now I'm on day 3 and I don't have any of the symptoms I had previously with the iPhone X. I'm actually starting to think I'm going to be ok with the 12. Apple has a 2-week return policy. I am taking advantage of that. But as I said, I have hopes that this phone may work for me, as some others have reported. YMMV.

 

[jm31828]

I was one of the earlier posters to this thread since I had to return my iPhone X because of headaches after continued use. I got my first headache about 2 days after using the device. I picked up my iPhone 12 on Saturday afternoon. I set it up and then used it like I would use my phone regularly. Now I'm on day 3 and I don't have any of the symptoms I had previously with the iPhone X. I'm actually starting to think I'm going to be ok with the 12. Apple has a 2-week return policy. I am taking advantage of that. But as I said, I have hopes that this phone may work for me, as some others have reported. YMMV.

That is great to hear!
Since we have seen some technical investigation into which brightness levels have the worst flicker, if you don't mind my asking, what level of brightness do you have your 12 set on? And do you use the "Reduce white point" at all to further dim the display?

 

[TDDM]

Your experience seems to be exactly like mine. I am a huge Apple fan and had every iPhone prior to the X. I was part of this thread when the original X came out, which I had to return. I then tried the XR because LCD, but that was just as hard on my eyes. Rinse and repeat even with iPads.

I was contacted by Apple’s “Safety”?? Department about the issue some years ago and they stated they had cases open with other people as well with eye issues, but nothing came of it.

I now hold onto a cracked screen 8+ and a 2017 12.9 IPP but need a new iPhone and would love to try the new iPad Air 4 or IPP 12.9 but I just cannot go through the amount of eye strain that happens when i test out a new device. It seems to affect me for days even after the exposure. I recently bought a new MacBook Air and the jury is still out on that one. Is there anything that can be guaranteed safe like the 8+?

The iPad 7th gen is also clear, but that’s probably worse than the iPP 2017. I’m curious if the Macbook Air works for you, since Macs also cause me trouble lol.

 

[user1234]

And so here are the results of measurements:
Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (may be better translation from Russian is flicker index)

Iphone 12 Pro
1. 100 % - 6.8 %
2. 75 % - 7.7 %
3. 50 % - 8.6 %
4. 25 % - 10.0 %
5. 0 % - 8.3 %

Iphone 12
1. 100 % - 6.8 %
2. 75 % - 7.7 %
3. 50 % - 8.9 %
4. 25 % - 9.5 %
5. 0 % - 8.3 %

For comparison:

11 Pro Max
1. 100 % - 6.8 %
2. 75 % - 7.8 %
3. 50 % - 8.3 %
4. 25 % - 80.2 %
5. 0 % - 71.1 %

8 Plus
1. 100 % - 0.7 %
2. 75 % - 0.7 %
3. 50 % - 0.8 %
4. 25 % - 0.8 %
5. 0 % - 0.9 %

Conclusions: 12 and 12 Pro are similar to 11 Pro Max at brightness levels from 100% to 50%, but much better at brightness levels from 50% to 0%, and are still significantly different from 8plus, which does great at any brightness level.

This probably explains the fact that some of those who could not use the X, XS, 11 Pro can use the 12 and 12 Pro. It is likely that this is possible in people with moderate sensitivity to PWM.

Below is the measurement results for the reduced white point:

iPhone 12 Pro
White point 75 %
1. 100 % - 7.9 %
2. 75 % - 10.5 %
3. 50 % - 14 %
4. 25 % - 15.6 %
5. 0 % - 12.6 %

White point 50 %
1. 100 % - 7.2 %
2. 75 % - 9.2 %
3. 50 % - 10.8 %
4. 25 % - 12.6 %
5. 0 % - 9.8 %

iPhone 12
White point 75 %
1. 100 % - 8.5 %
2. 75 % - 11.5 %
3. 50 % - 13.1 %
4. 25 % - 14 %
5. 0 % - 12.1 %

White point 50 %
1. 100 % - 7.5 %
2. 75 % - 9.1 %
3. 50 % - 10.7 %
4. 25 % - 11.6 %
5. 0 % - 9.8 %

Conclusions:
For those who plans to give a chance for the 12 and 12 Pro, I recommend not using the white point reduction, but leaving the white point at the standard settings, as this makes the flickering not better, but even worse. Also, if possible, you should avoid a brightness level around 25%, because all OLED iPhone screens have a peak flicker value at this brightness level.

It should also be noted that Apple heard many reports of issues with the use of OLED screens and did what they could.

For comparison, I measured the new Samsung S20 Plus, as I was wondering if there is a difference between 120 Hz and 60 Hz. The results were terrifying - at brightness levels from 100% to 50%, the pulsation coefficient (flicker index) was from 40% to 110%, and right in a matter of 1-2 minutes of use, I immediately felt how all the typical negative effects from PWM arise. It also turned out that the pulsation coefficient is approximately the same at both 120 Hz and 60 Hz. It was interesting for me whether I should not buy a new iPhone now, but wait for next year, when new models with 120 Hertz screens will be released.

Personally, I plan to wait for the 12 Pro Max to start selling, measure and buy it if its flicker index is at least the same as that of 12 and 12 Pro. I hope that both I and many of you will be able to use the new 12 and 12 Pro quite normally.

Great news that it has been improved at lower brightness levels!

Still a bit of work to do on Apples part but it's a move in the right direction 👍

Thanks for sharing the results

 

[MICHAELSD]

Eye strain aside (this could be a moot point), I’m having an extraordinarily difficult time deciding on an iPhone 12 model.

Normally I’d gravitate towards the iPhone 12 Pro Max since it’s the largest and “best” iPhone, but I could make a justification for any model in the lineup.

 

[VadimVV]

A-MEN! The XS is a creepy device indeed. When my wife asks me to look at hers to fix something, or read a FB posting, I have to do very quick. No kidding, 2 minutes of reading a FB post last night on it gave me eye issues for 5 minutes afterwards.

I measured my wife's XS Max and here are the results from this eye killer machine:

Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (flicker index)

Iphone XS Max
1. 100% - 7.3%
2. 75% - 7.8%
3. 50% - 9.4%
4. 25% - 104.1%
5. 0% - 44.3%

What confuses me is that the results at brightness levels from 100% to 50% are similar to those of the 12 and 12 Pro (XS Max values are only slightly higher). But I'm not sure if even at this brightness level I could use the XS Max, hopefully it's because the screen is too bright at those levels. I think I got a slight headache even during measurements.)) I have no idea how my wife can safely use it. Sometimes I think I'm married to a terminator or some other kind of cyborg, with advanced options for love, childbirth and tantrums.))

 

[VadimVV]

I was one of the earlier posters to this thread since I had to return my iPhone X because of headaches after continued use. I got my first headache about 2 days after using the device. I picked up my iPhone 12 on Saturday afternoon. I set it up and then used it like I would use my phone regularly. Now I'm on day 3 and I don't have any of the symptoms I had previously with the iPhone X. I'm actually starting to think I'm going to be ok with the 12. Apple has a 2-week return policy. I am taking advantage of that. But as I said, I have hopes that this phone may work for me, as some others have reported. YMMV.

Congratulations! It's always great to see when someone can use new technology devices again!

 

[francerex]

Your experience seems to be exactly like mine. I am a huge Apple fan and had every iPhone prior to the X. I was part of this thread when the original X came out, which I had to return. I then tried the XR because LCD, but that was just as hard on my eyes. Rinse and repeat even with iPads.

I was contacted by Apple’s “Safety”?? Department about the issue some years ago and they stated they had cases open with other people as well with eye issues, but nothing came of it.

I now hold onto a cracked screen 8+ and a 2017 12.9 IPP but need a new iPhone and would love to try the new iPad Air 4 or IPP 12.9 but I just cannot go through the amount of eye strain that happens when i test out a new device. It seems to affect me for days even after the exposure. I recently bought a new MacBook Air and the jury is still out on that one. Is there anything that can be guaranteed safe like the 8+?

I have exactly the same problems you have, I returned xr and 11 due to eyestrain. IPP was also bad, but i can use fine my ipad air 3. I had to sell my MacBook Air after one day, hope you are fine with it but honestly you may want to look into another manufacturer.

It is interesting to know that Apple actually looked into the matter. I guess not enough people are affected by this to warrant changes? What's strange is that top of the line products from other manufacturers such as Lenovo and Dell (X1 Carbon and XPS) are carefully thought to avoid such problems as far as I understand. Matte screens, no flickering, no temporal dithering.
What concerns me the most is that, given how long we need to recover from the exposure to these products, there might be some long lasting negative effects.

I am also looking for a new phone and at this point I am seriously considering getting the new One Plus N10 5G. AW and Airpods pro are keeping me in the ecosystem for now, but I am starting to think they are not worth risking my eyes over

 

[VadimVV]

What else can be said about the XS Max (It's interesting with it because it obviously causes issues almost immediately) :

At 100% brightness
White point 100% - 16.6%
White point 75% - 8.5%
White point 50% - 7.7%
White point 25% - 7.2%

Therefore, keeping the white point above 75% also makes no special sense, since this leads to an increase in flicker, but still it is noticeably less than at 25% brightness and default white point.

True Tone On when the white point is reduced gives an increase of about 0.5%. Night Shift (about 70%) increases by about 0.5% more.These are good technologies, as they reduce the harmful effects of the blue spectrum, especially in low light, but their implementation requires some increase in flicker, generally negligible compared to critical values at brightness levels from 50% to 0%.

I would not like to confuse you with a large amount of data, but the theme also matters. In a dark theme, the dark gray background flickers at about 21% at 100% brightness, and about 23% at 50% brightness. At brightness below 50%, it also rises rapidly as long as the photosensor has enough light to determine the value. Therefore, for test 12 or 12 Pro, it may be better not to set the dark theme at least for a while.