Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Roadstar]

I am also looking for a new phone and at this point I am seriously considering getting the new One Plus N10 5G. AW and Airpods pro are keeping me in the ecosystem for now, but I am starting to think they are not worth risking my eyes over

If you’re considering a OnePlus phone, the 8T should provide more flagship experience while being relatively easy to the eyes for an OLED screen. For after all, the PWM frequency is around 450hz and apparently there’s some kind of a DC dimming implementation on the display. The N10 5G has LCD if I recall correctly, but it’s otherwise a lower range device.

 

[francerex]

If you’re considering a OnePlus phone, the 8T should provide more flagship experience while being relatively easy to the eyes for an OLED screen. For after all, the PWM frequency is around 450hz and apparently there’s some kind of a DC dimming implementation on the display. The N10 5G has LCD if I recall correctly, but it’s otherwise a lower range device.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Yeah the LCD of the N10 is the main selling point for me. Iwill look more into the 8T but I am kind of scared just reading the word OLED at this point 😄

 

[jm31828]

What else can be said about the XS Max (It's interesting with it because it obviously causes issues almost immediately) :

At 100% brightness
White point 100% - 16.6%
White point 75% - 8.5%
White point 50% - 7.7%
White point 25% - 7.2%

Therefore, keeping the white point above 75% also makes no special sense, since this leads to an increase in flicker, but still it is noticeably less than at 25% brightness and default white point.

True Tone On when the white point is reduced gives an increase of about 0.5%. Night Shift (about 70%) increases by about 0.5% more.These are good technologies, as they reduce the harmful effects of the blue spectrum, especially in low light, but their implementation requires some increase in flicker, generally negligible compared to critical values at brightness levels from 50% to 0%.

I would not like to confuse you with a large amount of data, but the theme also matters. In a dark theme, the dark gray background flickers at about 21% at 100% brightness, and about 23% at 50% brightness. At brightness below 50%, it also rises rapidly as long as the photosensor has enough light to determine the value. Therefore, for test 12 or 12 Pro, it may be better not to set the dark theme at least for a while.

Interesting! It's odd that dark mode- which turns a lot of the pixels off completely- would end up with more flicker.

 

[dimitricook]

What a great progress on this topic @VadimVV 👏

Is there anyone who had the chance to test the 12 MINI, i am really curious if this iPhone does something different in some kind of way that makes it even easier to use in comparison to the 12?

Some time ago i launched the PWM survey on this and other forums. In total i got 88 participants. I see new entry's every week.

If you didn't already participated:

Apple iPhone X|Xr|11|11Pro|12|12Pro Eye strain - Headache Survey

Dear iPhone user, With this survey i would like to collect all input from iPhone users who are experiencing any type of health related problems with their iPhone. The goal is to: 1. Identify the cause of this problem by data. 2. Report this data to Apple so they can work on the solution...

forms.gle

I am planning to share the results on the forum when i reach 100 participants.

 

[VadimVV]

Interesting! It's odd that dark mode- which turns a lot of the pixels off completely- would end up with more flicker.

Yeah, for me it was also quite curious.

At the same time, the completely black color has an 0% (the pixels are off, the photosensor cannot determine the value, I think that the same with our eyes), but the dark gray color flickers a lot.

 

[jm31828]

This might be a crazy question, but I put a privacy screen protector on my regular 11 (I know, not OLED) to take the edge off the piercing sharpness of the display and that helped my eyes.

With all that we have been talking about with the X/Xs/11Pro/12 series and the oled flicker and the discomfort some of us have had, is there any chance that a privacy screen protector could help just a little bit?

 

[VadimVV]

I also need some help with calculations and interpretation. I'm not sure from a physics point of view, but if I understand correctly, then this indicator is relative and shows the average of the maximum and minimum deviation from the average light level - (I hope that Google does a good job with the translation).

In this case, using the XS Max as an example:
1.100% - 7.3% - at 100% brightness we have a deviation equal to 1 * 7.3 = 7.3 in absolute units

2.75% - 7.8% - in the same way 0.75 * 7.8 = 5.85 absolute deviation units

3.50% - 9.4% similar to 0.5 * 9.4 = 4.7

4.25% - 104.1% similar to 0.25 * 104.1 = 26.02

5.0% - 28.3% Here we have some difficulty, since zero in the settings is far from zero from the point of view of physics, with absolute zero brightness it would be absolute darkness and nothing would be visible on the screen, but since we see the image , then this is not an absolute zero brightness, but just some of its relative value.

Hope you get the basic idea. And from this point of view, the new 12 and 12 Pro really have a chance of normal use, and not at high brightness levels, but at low ones, since they have a low pulsation coefficient at low brightness levels compared to previous OLED models. Therefore, in absolute units, the flicker will be significantly less intense than at high brightness levels. But I don’t know if it is correct to evaluate it this way.

Please try to critically evaluate this information, is there some mistake or obvious delusion? Or it could be true?

 

[jm31828]

I also need some help with calculations and interpretation. I'm not sure from a physics point of view, but if I understand correctly, then this indicator is relative and shows the average of the maximum and minimum deviation from the average light level - (I hope that Google does a good job with the translation).

In this case, using the XS Max as an example:
1.100% - 7.3% - at 100% brightness we have a deviation equal to 1 * 7.3 = 7.3 in absolute units

2.75% - 7.8% - in the same way 0.75 * 7.8 = 5.85 absolute deviation units

3.50% - 9.4% similar to 0.5 * 9.4 = 4.7

4.25% - 104.1% similar to 0.25 * 104.1 = 26.02

5.0% - 28.3% Here we have some difficulty, since zero in the settings is far from zero from the point of view of physics, with absolute zero brightness it would be absolute darkness and nothing would be visible on the screen, but since we see the image , then this is not an absolute zero brightness, but just some of its relative value.

Hope you get the basic idea. And from this point of view, the new 12 and 12 Pro really have a chance of normal use, and not at high brightness levels, but at low ones, since they have a low pulsation coefficient at low brightness levels compared to previous OLED models. Therefore, in absolute units, the flicker will be significantly less intense than at high brightness levels. But I don’t know if it is correct to evaluate it this way.

Please try to critically evaluate this information, is there some mistake or obvious delusion? Or it could be true?

Thank you so much for all of this information and discussion!
I will be getting a mini on Friday, and I will be trying different brightness levels to find one that does not pierce my eyes with brightness (since I am very sensitive to that as well) while also trying to mitigate flicker. Fingers crossed it will work out and I will not have to return it. I will report my findings here!

 

[VadimVV]

Thank you so much for all of this information and discussion!
I will be getting a mini on Friday, and I will be trying different brightness levels to find one that does not pierce my eyes with brightness (since I am very sensitive to that as well) while also trying to mitigate flicker. Fingers crossed it will work out and I will not have to return it. I will report my findings here!

Yes, it will be very interesting to know about your experience! Good luck with your Mini!

Oh God, what can we get to if we just want to watch social networks and take cool photos on a new iPhone, and instead have to learn the basics of physics again many years after leaving school and university. 😂

 

[jm31828]

Yes, it will be very interesting to know about your experience! Good luck with your Mini!

Oh God, what can we get to if we just want to watch social networks and take cool photos on a new iPhone, and instead have to learn the basics of physics again many years after leaving school and university. 😂

yes, how disappointing, huh? I have been talking to my wife about how great the size of the mini is going to be, the new cameras, the new chip, etc. But then always have to temper it with "I will probably have to return it because of the flicker, but I want to try".
But yes, the nerdy discussion here has been so unexpected- but has been so helpful. .

 

[tonybarnaby]

After today's 2 minute horrible experience with the Galaxy S20 Plus in the store, I no longer trust Samsung. While other manufacturers are at least trying to do something to minimize the negative effects of PWM, it looks like Samsung is completely indifferent to all this. OnePlus perhaps do the most in order to preserve all the advantages of OLED and at the same time not create issues for customers.

Which is odd, because unless something has changed I believe Samsung makes the screens for OnePlus.

 

[VadimVV]

Which is odd, because unless something has changed I believe Samsung makes the screens for OnePlus.

I think this can be explained by the fact that not only the display itself is important, but also the algorithm for controlling its brightness.
For example: to create a visible brightness level of about 50%, manufacter can use a flicker from 0% to 100% (and it will be a huge flicker), or from 40% to 60% (less flicker). The second is probably more difficult as it requires more precise calibration at different levels to accurately display colors.

Thus, the PWM frequency affects at least a certain level, while the pupil of the eye catches these changes and tries to adjust to them. But the amplitude of these changes also clearly affects, because it depends on it, not only how often per second the pupil should adjust to the change in the level of light, but also how much it should expand and narrow.

And the only thing that is not clear, from the point of view of ophthalmology, what has a more negative effect - the amplitude in scalar absolute values (in cd/m²) or in relative values (pulsation coefficient in percent).

If the former, then the Iphone 12 will be better at brightness levels close to maximum, if the latter, then at minimum brightness levels, since their pulsation coefficient at brightness levels from 50% to 0% has been significantly improved in comparison with previous OLED models.

One way or another, what can be said definitely - the 12 and 12 Pro differ from previous models at low brightness levels (X, XS, 11 Pro were very similar in flicker level), and therefore they can be tried to use in the hope that everything will be fine.

So I wish everyone good luck and a good experience using the new iPhones this year!)

 

[user1234]

Notebookcheck has posted PWM measurements for the iPhone 12 Pro awaiting the full review (only in German so far):

iPhone 12 Pro: Pulsweitenmodulation für das OLED-Display

Wie bei allen OLED-Displays wird auch jenes des iPhone 12 Pro mittels PWM gedimmt. Wir haben uns dies schon mal genauer angeschaut und möchten Ihnen die Messergebnisse vorab präsentieren.

www.notebookcheck.com

It looks better than previous models, but they don't have any flicker percent or flicker index measurements as usual so it's hard to tell how much flicker there is.

 

[VadimVV]

Notebookcheck has posted PWM measurements for the iPhone 12 Pro awaiting the full review (only in German so far):

iPhone 12 Pro: Pulsweitenmodulation für das OLED-Display

Wie bei allen OLED-Displays wird auch jenes des iPhone 12 Pro mittels PWM gedimmt. Wir haben uns dies schon mal genauer angeschaut und möchten Ihnen die Messergebnisse vorab präsentieren.

www.notebookcheck.com

It looks better than previous models, but they don't have any flicker percent or flicker index measurements as usual so it's hard to tell how much flicker there is.

Very interesting article! Thank you for sharing the link!

Confirms previous data and user reviews - the new 12 is not as flicker-perfect as the 8 Plus, but significantly better than previous OLED models.

It is very good that the specialists from Notebookcheck are studying this issue in detail. Their professionalism can clearly be trusted. I'll try 12 Pro Max. I hope everything will be all right.

 

[freeagent]

Just curious, do you PWM sufferers have problems with other newer phones like the new SE? My wife is now taking these pills to help with vertigo, and I cant say for sure but do you think her new SE could be contributing? Did you have problems with your SE2? I have a hard time believing it could be her phone, but I don't know everything and cannot claim to, so I come to you..

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Just curious, do you PWM sufferers have problems with other newer phones like the new SE? My wife is now taking these pills to help with vertigo, and I cant say for sure but do you think her new SE could be contributing? Did you have problems with your SE2? I have a hard time believing it could be her phone, but I don't know everything and cannot claim to, so I come to you..

I have seen several mention they could not use the Xr or even the 11. Once they felt they could rule out Face ID, it was found that Apple has altered the Frame Rate Control (temporal dithering) on post-8 Plus LCD models. Did she suffer from vertigo prior to the SE? Or has it worsened since the SE? If so, temporal dithering changes would be the only thing I can think of. Sorry not much help.

 

[freeagent]

She isn’t sure when it started, but I noticed around the time she got her phone. Thanks.

 

[GlenK]

Just curious, do you PWM sufferers have problems with other newer phones like the new SE? My wife is now taking these pills to help with vertigo, and I cant say for sure but do you think her new SE could be contributing? Did you have problems with your SE2? I have a hard time believing it could be her phone, but I don't know everything and cannot claim to, so I come to you..

I could not use the X, Xs, or XR but have had no issues with the 2020 SE. Now that I've been using it I'm hooked on the size too! So much easier to have a smaller phone. The size was not why I tried it but now that I have it can't see myself going back to a big phone. No eye strain or headaches at all with the SE. BUT, everyone is different so I certainly can't say for sure that no one would have issues with it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Notebookcheck has posted PWM measurements for the iPhone 12 Pro awaiting the full review (only in German so far):

iPhone 12 Pro: Pulsweitenmodulation für das OLED-Display

Wie bei allen OLED-Displays wird auch jenes des iPhone 12 Pro mittels PWM gedimmt. Wir haben uns dies schon mal genauer angeschaut und möchten Ihnen die Messergebnisse vorab präsentieren.

www.notebookcheck.com

It looks better than previous models, but they don't have any flicker percent or flicker index measurements as usual so it's hard to tell how much flicker there is.

Translated via Google (Safari was giving an error when trying to translate):

“Over 22 percent of the time, the Super Retina XDR display falls into a 60 Hz mode, a method that is also used for DC dimming. The brightness range extends up to 150 cd / m², so that this spectrum is most likely to be used in closed rooms. In addition, the luminosity increases sharply and the amplitude curve is relatively irregular, since in this case, however, the ambient light should also be correspondingly high, provided that the control of the display brightness is left to the sensor, this should not strain the eyes too much either.

Apple does not talk about DC dimming itself, but uses a cleverly adapted control of the panel to keep the PWM load from the display as low as possible. However, we cannot completely rule out complaints.”

I still think there should be an option in Accessibility that reliably minimizes PWM, but I think iPhone 12 will be worth a try. Now, to decide on which model 🤔.

 

[jm31828]

Translated via Google (Safari was giving an error when trying to translate):

“Over 22 percent of the time, the Super Retina XDR display falls into a 60 Hz mode, a method that is also used for DC dimming. The brightness range extends up to 150 cd / m², so that this spectrum is most likely to be used in closed rooms. In addition, the luminosity increases sharply and the amplitude curve is relatively irregular, since in this case, however, the ambient light should also be correspondingly high, provided that the control of the display brightness is left to the sensor, this should not strain the eyes too much either.

Apple does not talk about DC dimming itself, but uses a cleverly adapted control of the panel to keep the PWM load from the display as low as possible. However, we cannot completely rule out complaints.”

I still think there should be an option in Accessibility that reliably minimizes PWM, but I think iPhone 12 will be worth a try. Now, to decide on which model .

That sounds promising! I look forward to getting my mini on Friday and trying it out.

 

[Roadstar]

I could not use the X, Xs, or XR but have had no issues with the 2020 SE. Now that I've been using it I'm hooked on the size too! So much easier to have a smaller phone. The size was not why I tried it but now that I have it can't see myself going back to a big phone. No eye strain or headaches at all with the SE. BUT, everyone is different so I certainly can't say for sure that no one would have issues with it.

I’m also using a 2020 SE without problems and while the size (and TouchID!) has many benefits, I’d still occasionally like a better battery and camera and I was wondering whether I should try my luck with the 12 series and go straight for the Max for the better camera. Thankfully I went to a store (masked and used a ton of hand sanitizer) to give the pro a try, and the symptoms I had with the 11 non-pro quickly appeared after scrolling around a bit and trying the FaceID demo that just complained about my mask and maybe used full-on blast of IR while trying to find my face.

So apparently no 12 series phone for me. I hope the 13 comes with a TouchID embedded somewhere on the phone so that I can eliminate at least one potential problem factor if I (or more precisely my eyes) can’t get used to FaceID.

 

[Saruva]

Hello, just registered to share my experience.

I hadn’t heard about PMW, OLED eye strain and so till last Monday.
I was waiting for news about 12 mini battery life, and as expected, it’s awful, so I pulled the trigger towards the regular 12.
After a couple of hours setting it up and messing with apps and so, all the symptoms started to appear. It remembered me of those long gaming sessions that destroy your eyes but with headache and feeling like the back of your eyes was being scratched with sand paper!

I actually own a 1st gen SE which I love, and when I had finally decided to change after 3 years, I discovered that OLED screens are a big NO for me. 3 days after 3/4hours of using iPhone 12 and I’ve got still some residual eye irritation and red patches. Barely couldn’t sleep that night.

I love Apple but only LCD alternatives that looks like I could go are:
8 and older: not worth IMO
SE 2020: awful battery
11: just too big, which is sad because I think is the best bang iphone. You could say that is barely 0,5cm wider and taller than 12, but squared factor was a pro for me.

I think I’m out of luck, since next iphones are also oled based (or microled, which doesn’t have why to improve our condition) and SE 3 is rumored to be released in 2022 and with the 11 shape.
Im tempted to search another 2016 SE since my battery health is about 87% ...

Excuse for my poor English and the long rant, but I’m so sad I’m banned to enjoy new smartphones and had to share it.

 

[Roadstar]

Hello, just registered to share my experience.

I hadn’t heard about PMW, OLED eye strain and so till last Monday.
I was waiting for news about 12 mini battery life, and as expected, it’s awful, so I pulled the trigger towards the regular 12.
After a couple of hours setting it up and messing with apps and so, all the symptoms started to appear. It remembered me of those long gaming sessions that destroy your eyes but with headache and feeling like the back of your eyes was being scratched with sand paper!

I actually own a 1st gen SE which I love, and when I had finally decided to change after 3 years, I discovered that OLED screens are a big NO for me. 3 days after 3/4hours of using iPhone 12 and I’ve got still some residual eye irritation and red patches. Barely couldn’t sleep that night.

I love Apple but only LCD alternatives that looks like I could go are:
8 and older: not worth IMO
SE 2020: awful battery
11: just too big, which is sad because I think is the best bang iphone. You could say that is barely 0,5cm wider and taller than 12, but squared factor was a pro for me.

I think I’m out of luck, since next iphones are also oled based (or microled, which doesn’t have why to improve our condition) and SE 3 is rumored to be released in 2022 and with the 11 shape.
Im tempted to search another 2016 SE since my battery health is about 87% ...

Excuse for my poor English and the long rant, but I’m so sad I’m banned to enjoy new smartphones and had to share it.

I know how you feel. However, while the SE2 battery isn’t the best in the world, it should still beat that 2016 version with a worn-out battery. The SE2 also supports wireless charging so it’s easier to top up when not in use. I’ve also purchased the Apple 18W power brick and the USB-C to Lightning cable to get fast charging, and that has made the not-that-great battery more tolerable as I can get quite a bit of extra juice with even a short charging window.

 

[Saruva]

I know how you feel. However, while the SE2 battery isn’t the best in the world, it should still beat that 2016 version with a worn-out battery. The SE2 also supports wireless charging so it’s easier to top up when not in use. I’ve also purchased the Apple 18W power brick and the USB-C to Lightning cable to get fast charging, and that has made the not-that-great battery more tolerable as I can get quite a bit of extra juice with even a short charging window.

Well you might be right.
I’ve actually reconsidered getting the SE 2020 but I’m doubting about it since it’s about 500€ here and only 100€ away from XR and 200€ from 11, which seems like a way better product regarding cameras and battery. And I love the size of my SE.
Will think about it

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’m surprised how much I’m leaning towards the iPhone 12, as opposed to the Pro or the Pro Max.

I’m trying to spend less time on my phone, so the 12 checks all of the boxes in being lightweight and relatively compact while still having a large enough display to be enjoyable. Stainless steel doesn’t really do much for me (I own a gold stainless steel Apple Watch and oddly enough I still prefer the matte aluminum, which I have since the first generation Watch) so the only real loss is the telephoto lens.

Since I’d be purchasing a 128GB model it would only cost $150 more to upgrade to the Pro, but every time I go to the page to order a Pro I end up choosing the Max.

iPhone 12 seems like the perfect middle ground for somebody as indecisive as me who’s considering every model including the Mini. Since it has an OLED display now (eye strain aside) there’s really no reason to overlook the 12.