Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Roadstar]

Well you might be right.
I’ve actually reconsidered getting the SE 2020 but I’m doubting about it since it’s about 500€ here and only 100€ away from XR and 200€ from 11, which seems like a way better product regarding cameras and battery. And I love the size of my SE.
Will think about it

The Xr and the 11 would definitely have a better battery and the 11 also a more flexible camera thanks to the extra. However, for me also the 11 was problematic possibly due to FaceID or some other feature that doesn’t exist on the current SE. But if it’s PWM that bothers you, Xr and 11 both should be good to go albeit a little on the large side.

 

[Saruva]

The Xr and the 11 would definitely have a better battery and the 11 also a more flexible camera thanks to the extra. However, for me also the 11 was problematic possibly due to FaceID or some other feature that doesn’t exist on the current SE. But if it’s PWM that bothers you, Xr and 11 both should be good to go albeit a little on the large side.

You made me doubt! I think it’s PWM but, by your words, I understand that there may be something else that can cause eye strain. I just know that 12 screen raped my eyes, and after googling I determined that PWM caused it but I may be wrong.

How does Face ID harm you? What do you think it’s hurting you regarding 11?
Could it just be the higher light exposure due to a bigger screen?

 

[Roadstar]

How does Face ID harm you? What do you think it’s hurting you regarding 11?

I got rid of the 11 after about a month of owning it. At first it seemed OK and I thought I had dodged the PWM bullet by getting an LCD display. However, after two nights of getting a severe headache in a row I realized that my headaches had gone up approximately 400% from their regular occurrence during the time I had the 11. Then I also remembered that back in the day when I had the Galaxy S8+ and I tried its iris scanner, my eye had a not-quite-burning-but-warm-in-the-wrong-way feeling and any prolonged use of it started to hurt even more.

The same kind of feeling the heat and getting my eyes dry and gritty struck when I played around with animoji. Also the consecutive headaches hit during nights when I was using my phone in a dark room
while waiting for the kids to fall asleep, something I’ve done quite a lot without major issues on various other phones. For after all, in the dark my pupils are more dilated to absorb whatever little light there is, but that makes also a larger portion of the FaceID IR to hit the sensitive part of my eyes. And since it’s not a visible wavelength, pupils don’t even realize to constrict even when there’s a regular pulse of light flashing right in front of them (unfortunately I had also the attention aware features enabled).

So while the headaches could also be caused by other features such as temporal dithering on the display, to me there seems to be at least some kind of connection to FaceID in my case.

 

[Saruva]

I got rid of the 11 after about a month of owning it. At first it seemed OK and I thought I had dodged the PWM bullet by getting an LCD display. However, after two nights of getting a severe headache in a row I realized that my headaches had gone up approximately 400% from their regular occurrence during the time I had the 11. Then I also remembered that back in the day when I had the Galaxy S8+ and I tried its iris scanner, my eye had a not-quite-burning-but-warm-in-the-wrong-way feeling and any prolonged use of it started to hurt even more.

The same kind of feeling the heat and getting my eyes dry and gritty struck when I played around with animoji. Also the consecutive headaches hit during nights when I was using my phone in a dark room
while waiting for the kids to fall asleep, something I’ve done quite a lot without major issues on various other phones. For after all, in the dark my pupils are more dilated to absorb whatever little light there is, but that makes also a larger portion of the FaceID IR to hit the sensitive part of my eyes. And since it’s not a visible wavelength, pupils don’t even realize to constrict even when there’s a regular pulse of light flashing right in front of them (unfortunately I had also the attention aware features enabled).

So while the headaches could also be caused by other features such as temporal dithering on the display, to me there seems to be at least some kind of connection to FaceID in my case.

Very interesting. Based on your experience, I can’t discard those other factors.

On another level, I’ve read that max pro and mini oled screens are delivered by Samsung instead of LG. What are the chances that mini 12 isn’t as harmful ? Or I’m just delusional, guys

 

[user1234]

Just curious, do you PWM sufferers have problems with other newer phones like the new SE? My wife is now taking these pills to help with vertigo, and I cant say for sure but do you think her new SE could be contributing? Did you have problems with your SE2? I have a hard time believing it could be her phone, but I don't know everything and cannot claim to, so I come to you..

I'm really sensitive but had no issues when I helped setting up an SE a couple of weeks ago. But I'm also fine with both the 11 and XR after extensive use.

 

[tonybarnaby]

In waiting for the se 2 plus next year. I’m not messing with oled and returns and all that mess anymore.

 

[MICHAELSD]

My initial thought is to order an iPhone 12 when I’m ready (it’s also the only iPhone 12 model in-stock on Apple’s online store), then upgrade next year to a Pro model if all goes well and if I decide I want a larger phone, telephoto lens, LiDAR, etc.

It doesn’t look like there’s a difference in PWM between the 12 and the Pro, but I’ll look out for Notebookcheck’s review of the Pro before making a decision. If anything the reduced max brightness of the standard 12 may cause less eye strain.

I hope to find a store demo to make the decision between the 12 and the 12 Pro/Pro Max easier, but I’m not going to go out of my way. I would have probably gone to an Apple Store during a normal year.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I am a little apprehensive since I haven’t even stared at an iPhone X/XS/11 Pro for more than a few seconds since I returned my X, but I’m ready to upgrade this year and there are no options with a LCD display so I’m hopeful that whatever issue I had with the PWM implementation that caused chronic migraines has been mostly resolved.

 

[tonybarnaby]

My initial thought is to order an iPhone 12 when I’m ready (it’s also the only iPhone 12 model in-stock on Apple’s online store), then upgrade next year to a Pro model if all goes well and if I decide I want a larger phone, telephoto lens, LiDAR, etc.

It doesn’t look like there’s a difference in PWM between the 12 and the Pro, but I’ll look out for Notebookcheck’s review of the Pro before making a decision. If anything the reduced max brightness of the standard 12 may cause less eye strain.

I hope to find a store demo to make the decision between the 12 and the 12 Pro/Pro Max easier, but I’m not going to go out of my way. I would have probably gone to an Apple Store during a normal year.

I could be wrong, but judging from your posts you really want the max. I can’t imagine one of these 3 being any better or worse than the others. I might have missed it, but I don’t think I have seen even 1 instance of someone who couldn’t use the x/max/ pro who can use a 12, but maybe I’m mistaken.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I am a little apprehensive since I haven’t even stared at an iPhone X/XS/11 Pro for more than a few seconds since I returned my X, but I’m ready to upgrade this year and there are no options with a LCD display so I’m hopeful that whatever issue I had with the PWM implementation that caused chronic migraines has been mostly resolved.

Any interest in the alleged se 2 plus sometime next year?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Any interest in the alleged se 2 plus sometime next year?

If the 12 doesn’t work out for me then that would be the plan. I was thinking about the standard SE, but it will probably end up being too small. Maybe I’ll buy it anyway as a test to see how long I can deal with it? I’m definitely ready for an upgrade.

 

[jm31828]

Any interest in the alleged se 2 plus sometime next year?

Is that supposed to have the a14 chip in the body of an XR?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I could be wrong, but judging from your posts you really want the max. I can’t imagine one of these 3 being any better or worse than the others. I might have missed it, but I don’t think I have seen even 1 instance of someone who couldn’t use the x/max/ pro who can use a 12, but maybe I’m mistaken.

I was also thinking about starting with the Max then downgrading if I feel it’s too large or that I don’t need the additional features.

It’s the same size as the 8+ I’m currently using and only slightly heavier so it’s not as gigantic at the reviews claim. Still, my hope is to start using my phone less and the Max provides the opposite experience.

If I still get headaches while/after using iPhone 12 or iPhone 12 Pro Max then I’ll likely move to an iPhone SE as a test to see if I am able to spend less time on my iPhone. I didn’t dislike the iPhone 6s when I briefly had one, if anything the size was a welcome change from the Plus-sized phones.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Is that supposed to have the a14 chip in the body of an XR?

That would be interesting. I thought it was going to retain the form factor of the Plus-sized phones, along with a home button.

 

[karinatwork]

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier: I didn’t do anything at all to the 12. I didn’t play with the settings. I left it as it comes out of the box. Occasionally I will raise the brightness when it gets too dim for me. Also, I don’t have it set to dark mode. I don’t like dark mode anyway. Still trying it out. I’m still not convinced yet. I want to be absolutely sure by day 12. It would be too expensive a gift for my husband!

 

[MICHAELSD]

In terms of features Apple outdid themselves this year since none of the iPhone 12’s have any deal-breaking drawbacks. There’s no definitive reason to upgrade to the Pro, and I find the aluminum design to be just as attractive if not more so than the stainless steel.

In previous years I found the XR’s lack of Haptic Touch to be a dealbreaker, and the resolution on the 11 to be noticeably lacking even if the color accuracy was stellar and the build itself was beautiful. OLED flicker aside, there is no clear choice for me this year since they all have their pros (no pun intended).

 

[tonybarnaby]

Has anyone done research to see if micro led will most likely utilize pwm? I don’t know much about the technology.

 

[one more]

How does Face ID harm you? What do you think it’s hurting you regarding 11?
Could it just be the higher light exposure due to a bigger screen?

FWIW, I first started having “eye problems” with an iPhone when I moved from 7 to 11 last year. The symptoms I had were marked eye dryness & soreness, which I did not have with iPhone 7. I started feeling them within about 2-3 days after the switch. What definitely helped me was setting reduce white point by 25% (the lowest possible reduction) and turning OFF any attention-related features of FaceID. Once I have done that, the eyes came back to normal within about 3 days. However, I also saw on these forums that some people do not notice much difference tweaking FaceID settings. My personal theory is that it has actually something to do with a physical screen size of the device, where the smaller the screen is, the better, as it would beam less bright light into our eyes. Having said that, I am quite light sensitive and always use sunglasses when I am out on a sunny day. I am gonna try 12 mini as my next iPhone to see how it goes, as 11 is too big/heavy for my use anyway. 🖐

 

[user1234]

Has anyone done research to see if micro led will most likely utilize pwm? I don’t know much about the technology.

It will use the same backplane as OLED. The only real difference is that the LED's aren't made of organic materials anymore. Rumor is that Apple may move to an LTPO backplane next year, which could potentially help with PWM, but it also may not. LTPO alone is not a solution, it's how it's implemented that affects the outcome.

Any change in backplane to get rid of flicker would be effective for both OLED and MicroLED.

 

[tonybarnaby]

It will use the same backplane as OLED. The only real difference is that the LED's aren't made of organic materials anymore. Rumor is that Apple may move to an LTPO backplane next year, which could potentially help with PWM, but it also may not. LTPO alone is not a solution, it's how it's implemented that affects the outcome.

Any change in backplane to get rid of flicker would be effective for both OLED and MicroLED.

Sounds good. Hopefully the se 2 plus sees the light of day next year and I can ride that out for 4 years if necessary.

 

[Saruva]

FWIW, I first started having “eye problems” with an iPhone when I moved from 7 to 11 last year. The symptoms I had were marked eye dryness & soreness, which I did not have with iPhone 7. I started feeling them within about 2-3 days after the switch. What definitely helped me was setting reduce white point by 25% (the lowest possible reduction) and turning OFF any attention-related features of FaceID. Once I have done that, the eyes came back to normal within about 3 days. However, I also saw on these forums that some people do not notice much difference tweaking FaceID settings. My personal theory is that it has actually something to do with a physical screen size of the device, where the smaller the screen is, the better, as it would beam less bright light into our eyes. Having said that, I am quite light sensitive and always use sunglasses when I am out on a sunny day. I am gonna try 12 mini as my next iPhone to see how it goes, as 11 is too big/heavy for my use anyway. 🖐

Nice! Please share your experience with 12 mini!
I’m thinking about getting it since I can return it as I did with regular 12, but I think I’m delusional and the results will be the same unfortunately

 

[jm31828]

Nice! Please share your experience with 12 mini!
I’m thinking about getting it since I can return it as I did with regular 12, but I think I’m delusional and the results will be the same unfortunately

I’m in a similar boat- I so badly want the mini as it is the perfect size for me, but I had issues with pwm back when I first tried the XS a couple years ago.
I preordered the mini, though- it arrives tomorrow. I fear it’s a waste of time and I will have to send it back, but hoping for the best.

 

[Saruva]

I’m in a similar boat- I so badly want the mini as it is the perfect size for me, but I had issues with pwm back when I first tried the XS a couple years ago.
I preordered the mini, though- it arrives tomorrow. I fear it’s a waste of time and I will have to send it back, but hoping for the best.

Best of luck! I’ll love to hear about your experience!

 

[tonybarnaby]

I feel bad for people who have pwm sensitivity But don’t know what’s wrong, so they go to multiple doctor appointments to narrow it down.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I feel bad for people who have pwm sensitivity But don’t know what’s wrong, so they go to multiple doctor appointments to narrow it down.

I can’t tell you how many messages I got on Reddit from people that were doing exactly that, then realizing that around the same time their headaches started they had purchased an iPhone X/XS and finding my post after doing research.

I’m sure there are still people out there visiting doctors or on a migraine medicine as a direct result of using an OLED iPhone that don’t know that their headaches are being caused by their phone.