Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[GlenK]

Well, I guess the mini is a no go for me. The day after getting mini I woke up to a splitting headache behind my sensitive eye. It has never been this bad with the X and the only part of my routine that changed in the past day is my phone.

Thanks, but damn!! I had my hopes on the mini too. Looks like SE is it. I'm not that disappointed because I truly love the SE and specially the size!! At least you saved me even screwing with it!!

 

[jimmy_uk]

Got the 12 today and can see a display difference between it and the 12 Pro Max. The 12 is a little redder and has very little colour shift. This redness helps make black text look a little sharper. Meanwhile the Pro Max is yellower and shifts to blue/green quickly. Sadly the 12 is making my eyes feel very strained on the sides of my eyeballs - it feels like more light is being blasted at me, and can see a shimmer like previous OLED iPhones.

 

[Saruva]

Is it there any android smartphone similar to flagship specs like 12 mini?
I think it’s going to be a waste to try that one due to all the bad reports and past bad experience with regular 12

 

[bsmr]

Tried the Xs and 11pro - both got me headache and problems with my eyes.

Normal 11 without any issues

 

[dan98]

Is it there any android smartphone similar to flagship specs like 12 mini?
I think it’s going to be a waste to try that one due to all the bad reports and past bad experience with regular 12

I tried a Sony Xperia XZ2 as a replacement for the SE 1 - it's bigger / heavier and I couldn't get on with Android in the end. Still worth checking out if you're getting desperate.
Suffice to say, the original SE is still looking like the best option for PWM-sensitive small phone users.
I have 4 of them now to keep me going for a few more years, or whenever Apple get their act together. They work brilliantly on ios13, not so good on ios14.

In case of wanting really high quality photos, I just keep a small DSLR around...a way better option than even the very latest/biggest iphone IMO.

 

[5105973]

I've been following the threads on iPhone and PWM to create this comment.

Since I was sensitive to the PWM on the iPhone XS Max, I jumped to the iPhone 11 when that launched last year.

I was able to play around with all four iPhones this morning. Since PWM was the one thing ensuring I might not upgrade this year, my inclination was to record slo-mo on about:blank at 0% brightness, 50% brightness, and 100% brightness.

My observations:

• iPhone 12 mini had the most flickering out of the four - and it was by a noticeable amount.
• iPhone 12 and 12 Pro were one and the same. When playing around at 50% or higher, there seemed to be no difference with PWM. The flickering got worse once you dropped below that threshold and kept getting closer to 0%.
• iPhone 12 Pro Max followed a similar trajectory where 50% or higher didn't alter the amount of flickering. What is important is that the device had the least amount of flickering out of the four - and it was noticeable right away from just pointing my iPhone 11's camera at the device. To ensure I wasn't going crazy, I brought other people over to verify that I wasn't losing my mind.

Now the iPhone 12 Pro Max still uses PWM and it still flickers - but it seemed like a decent enough improvement from from what I noticed with the 12 mini, 12, and 12 Pro.

Since I also had a OnePlus 7T on me, which has a PWM of 357 MHz per Notebookcheck, I compared it to the iPhone 12 Pro Max specifically.

Man - if only Apple used DC Dimming on these devices.

At 50% or higher brightness on the OnePlus 7T, using either PWM or DC Dimming, the iPhone 12 Pro Max had a similar amount of flickering. Once you dropped below 50%, OnePlus 7T's use of DC Dimming ran circles around the iPhone 12 Pro Max's use of PWM. On the other hand - OnePlus 7T's use of PWM at 50% or less was on par to the iPhone 12 Pro Max's use of PWM.

It seems if you need a new iPhone, but have issues with PWM; the iPhone 12 Pro Max might be the way to go. The only downside is you have a physically larger and noticeably heavier device.

I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max on me, so I'm going to test it out over the next few days to see if I encounter the same issues I did with my XS Max.

So far I have (temporarily had) 12 Pro, regular 12, and a 12 mini is arriving on Monday. My 12 Pro was more blurry and made my eyes water all the time. My 12 was a little bit better, probably due to better quality. Neither was as comfortable as my 11 Pro. My issues with the 12 Pro were that it hurt my hand to hold it. The 12 almost won but my polarized glasses are problematic with it.

My husband got a 12 Pro Max and so far it’s the best of the bunch. It’s heavy but being so massive I can hold it more the way I do my iPad mini. I’m thinking of trying it but worried I’ve tried too many this year Apple is going to ban me for excessive returns. I’ve only ever returned an X, an Xs Max and a deformed defective out of the box 8 Plus. This is kind of unprecedented for me.

 

[Saruva]

I tried a Sony Xperia XZ2 as a replacement for the SE 1 - it's bigger / heavier and I couldn't get on with Android in the end. Still worth checking out if you're getting desperate.
Suffice to say, the original SE is still looking like the best option for PWM-sensitive small phone users.
I have 4 of them now to keep me going for a few more years, or whenever Apple get their act together. They work brilliantly on ios13, not so good on ios14.

In case of wanting really high quality photos, I just keep a small DSLR around...a way better option than even the very latest/biggest iphone IMO.

Im writing from a 2016 SE which I love. May give 12 mini a try, but I’m already checking for refurbished 2016 SE since it’s hard to find brand new ones here where I live. Truly great phone

 

[dan98]

Im writing from a 2016 SE which I love. May give 12 mini a try, but I’m already checking for refurbished 2016 SE since it’s hard to find brand new ones here where I live. Truly great phone

My experience with buying these used it not to bother with the 'refurbished' ones - you can just buy one in decent cosmetic condition, replace the battery and camera (they fill up with dust after a few years)..then it'll be good to go for some more years.
It looks like the Mini is riddled with PWM...simply not worth the stress.

 

[1369281]

Why has MacRumors never written a post about this issue? One post by them might be all that is needed to fix Apple's trajectory.

 

[mjb59463]

Didn’t notice any issues with PWM on my X, XS, 11 Pro or 12 pro.

I got my 12 mini yesterday and my eyes are going nuts. Dry, irritated, trouble focusing on objects.

Will give it a day or two more to attempt to adjust, but there’s a chance this goes back in favor of the 12 Pro. As much as I love smaller devices, it’s possible that my eyes may no longer be able to handle it.

 

[Saruva]

My experience with buying these used it not to bother with the 'refurbished' ones - you can just buy one in decent cosmetic condition, replace the battery and camera (they fill up with dust after a few years)..then it'll be good to go for some more years.
It looks like the Mini is riddled with PWM...simply not worth the stress.

Despite the bad experience with regular 12, Im arriving home with a 12 mini in the bag. I know I’m 95% doomed but wanna try it, maybe use different color schemes and configurations. I just wanna burn all the cartridges before assuming OLED aren’t for me.
I’ll report later!

 

[Saruva]

Yes that’s what I’m hoping for. If anyone is interested, my settings for the 11 Pro were as follows:

Reduce white point: On, 70%
Reduce motion: On
Increase Contrast: On
Require attention for FaceID: Off
Attention aware features: Off

Increase contrast seemed to help me a lot on the 11 Pro so I’d recommend trying that before returning. That’s in Settings > Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Increase Contrast.

Testing this combo right now

 

[Saruva]

I've been suffering from allergies all week which causes massive sinus pressure from me - so I was having headaches and eyestrain prior to grabbing the iPhone.

I think the longest I've looked at the display has been for no more than 10 minutes straight - and nothing out of the ordinary has occured yet. I've already gone in and adjusted the display based upon what timeconsumer had in his post (as it was similar to settings I had enabled on my XS Max). If I use the iPhone often, it will be at work.

When I had my XS Max - it didn't click with me that the display/PWM was causing my headaches and eyestrain until after I typed in "iPhone XS Max headaches" and that might've been two months into owning the iPhone. I don't use my OnePlus 7T often as its my work device, but I never had the headaches/eyestrain that occurred with the XS Max. Of course, I have DC Dimming enabled with it rather than PWM.

Is it there any app or way to enable DC dimming in iOS?

 

[Roadstar]

I wish. It's entirely software based too; easily something Apple could bake into iOS.

The new OnePlus 8T actually has removed the DC Dimming feature from the OnePlus Labatories section in the Settings. However, it doesn't matter since the refresh rate on the display is set to 458.7 Hz... which I believe is the highest refresh rate for a OLED/PWM-based smartphone readily available in the States.

The experimental DC Dimming feature is gone from the Laboratories indeed, but that appears to be because it's become redundant, see https://forums.macrumors.com/thread....2085427/page-125?post=29190151#post-29190151

 

[tonybarnaby]

Why has MacRumors never written a post about this issue? One post by them might be all that is needed to fix Apple's trajectory.

That sounds good in theory, but the cost to apple would be untold millions. Pwm is utilized because it’s cheap. There are multiple ways to dim an oled screen that don’t use pwm, but they all cost more. For those of us affected, it really sucks. I believe there is 0 chance anything will be done. Apple *could* allow dc dimming, but that has issues with colors and isn’t a true fix. Honestly, I’m just waiting for the se 2 plus next summer or fall. If it comes out, it’ll last 4-5 years. If it never comes out, I’ll suck it up and get the 2020 se along with an apple battery case (both for the battery life, and to give it some much needed bulk to hold onto)

I’m not trying to be negative, but I really don’t think anything will change because it’s all about money, and none of these manufacturers are losing enough money to ditch pwm compared to how much more it would cost them and how their profits would be affected. They could raise the price of the phones to offset it, but I don’t see that happening either. For now, I’m absolutely shocked how smooth my 8+ still is. I have time, but if I drop this phone tomorrow and shatter it I am going to be forced to buy the 2020 se. All I want is to make it to the se 2 plus, assuming it ever launches at all.

 

[Saruva]

Well I’ve been using @timeconsumer setup for 10 minutes of Settings and apps menus and 50 minutes of Netflix watching a whole episode.
Eyes feel weird (definitely worse than 1 hour ago) but nothing like past experience with regular 12, which was atrocious. (I still have some remaining soreness from past days)

Timeoconsumer combination may have improved tolerance to PWM.
Also, having the 12 mini a smaller screen may have helped.
Im far from the 3/4 hours of use that devastated my eyes some days ago but I want to believe 😂
Going to stop for a little, will update later!

 

[Saruva]

Didn’t notice any issues with PWM on my X, XS, 11 Pro or 12 pro.

I got my 12 mini yesterday and my eyes are going nuts. Dry, irritated, trouble focusing on objects.

Will give it a day or two more to attempt to adjust, but there’s a chance this goes back in favor of the 12 Pro. As much as I love smaller devices, it’s possible that my eyes may no longer be able to handle it.

How much time did you use your mini? Which color and brightness configuration?

 

[mjb59463]

How much time did you use your mini? Which color and brightness configuration?

I used it for the greater part of yesterday. I did have my brightness at 50%, cranked it up to 75% today and it’s been marginally better, but still noticeable.

I have the 256gb Black variant.

 

[Proteinaceous]

Hi everyone! I thought I would contribute my experience with the newest series of iPhones.

I‘ve been following this thread since the X was release 3 years ago. I too had a X and had the same issues that many have described here. I ended up getting an 8+ to replace it and I still use the 8+ today. My wife just got a 12 pro max (she has never had eye issues with Apple OLED displays). I spent 1-2 hours with her 12 pro max and, unfortunately, I don’t think it will work for me. In the short period of time I used it, I could feel the familiar eye strain. It wasn’t terrible, but I could definitely feel it and I suspect long-term use will be a problem.

I suppose this isn’t too surprising given many of the recent reports, but I am disappointed. I really like what Apple did this year with the new phones.

The 8+ is a great phone but I am considering the 11 (non-pro). I really like face id and the gestures associated with devices without a home button (I am a big 2018/2020 series iPad Pro user). Also, since Apples newest tech is all OLED now, I would like to have one of the latest LCD iPhones to buy me a few more years in the hopes that Apple solves the issue or moves on to a new display technology that I can tolerate.

Best of luck to those of you testing the new 12’s!

 

[karinatwork]

Hello again, everyone. It’s a sad day today. It’s been one week that I’ve had my beautiful, black iPhone 12 and today I had to make the decision to return it to Apple. At first, I did not notice anything going on, but now, slowly but surely, my headaches have arrived and they are getting worse by the hour. I put the phone away for a day, and sure enough, I felt so much better. Less headaches, less dizziness. I don’t get eye strain or fatigue with OLED, but I do get a nasty, drilling pain between by eyebrows. It’s not horrible, and if I would pop a Tylenol it would probably go away, but... I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO DRUG MYSELF WITH PAINKILLERS TO BE ABLE TO USE A FRIGGIN’ PHONE! Sorry for yelling. But it’s absolutely sad. I will buy an iPhone 11 (used an XR before), and hang on to it until the end of time. Or until Apple smartens up. Which may very well happen in the next two years or so, when more and more people go OLED and realize that they cannot handle the flickering. Let’s hope for the best. I’m sorry the news are disappointing, but it’s important to stay realistic.

 

[Saruva]

Hi everyone! I thought I would contribute my experience with the newest series of iPhones.

I‘ve been following this thread since the X was release 3 years ago. I too had a X and had the same issues that many have described here. I ended up getting an 8+ to replace it and I still use the 8+ today. My wife just got a 12 pro max (she has never had eye issues with Apple OLED displays). I spent 1-2 hours with her 12 pro max and, unfortunately, I don’t think it will work for me. In the short period of time I used it, I could feel the familiar eye strain. It wasn’t terrible, but I could definitely feel it and I suspect long-term use will be a problem.

I suppose this isn’t too surprising given many of the recent reports, but I am disappointed. I really like what Apple did this year with the new phones.

The 8+ is a great phone but I am considering the 11 (non-pro). I really like face id and the gestures associated with devices without a home button (I am a big 2018/2020 series iPad Pro user). Also, since Apples newest tech is all OLED now, I would like to have one of the latest LCD iPhones to buy me a few more years in the hopes that Apple solves the issue or moves on to a new display technology that I can tolerate.

Best of luck to those of you testing the new 12’s!

Im sorry to hear that...
11 is a great device for years to come! And our health is way more important than some smartphone.

I’ve been using 12 mini for about 3 hours and experience has been way better than with regular 12, but cannot lie to myself: some kind of eye strain is starting to build up, and presumably will bring some health issues in the long run, so I must return it and accept that OLED aren’t possible to me.
I really hate to write to write this words since 12 mini is such a nice , compact, powerful phone, but I will have to stick with my old but trusty 2016 SE or accept other sizes

 

[jm31828]

I tried a Sony Xperia XZ2 as a replacement for the SE 1 - it's bigger / heavier and I couldn't get on with Android in the end. Still worth checking out if you're getting desperate.
Suffice to say, the original SE is still looking like the best option for PWM-sensitive small phone users.
I have 4 of them now to keep me going for a few more years, or whenever Apple get their act together. They work brilliantly on ios13, not so good on ios14.

In case of wanting really high quality photos, I just keep a small DSLR around...a way better option than even the very latest/biggest iphone IMO.

how about the SE 2020- any thoughts on that being a decent alternative for people who want a small phone and maybe cannot deal with the PWM on the 12 Mini? I was thinking ahead to backup plans- I still have my regular 11, but I just cannot stand that size, so if my 12 Mini just doesn't work out (fingers crossed it does, though) I am thinking the SE2020 may be the good alternative since I always liked that size back when I had the 6s and 7.

 

[Saruva]

Im sorry to hear that...
11 is a great device for years to come! And our health is way more important than some smartphone.

I’ve been using 12 mini for about 3 hours and experience has been way better than with regular 12, but cannot lie to myself: some kind of eye strain is starting to build up, and presumably will bring some health issues in the long run, so I must return it and accept that OLED aren’t possible to me.
I really hate to write to write this words since 12 mini is such a nice , compact, powerful phone, but I will have to stick with my old but trusty 2016 SE or accept other sizes

This comment was meant to quote and answer @karinatwork sorry 😅

(BTW I just woke up and want to rip my eyes out of my skull, so definitely no mini for me!)

 

[Saruva]

how about the SE 2020- any thoughts on that being a decent alternative for people who want a small phone and maybe cannot deal with the PWM on the 12 Mini? I was thinking ahead to backup plans- I still have my regular 11, but I just cannot stand that size, so if my 12 Mini just doesn't work out (fingers crossed it does, though) I am thinking the SE2020 may be the good alternative since I always liked that size back when I had the 6s and 7.

Im between keeping old SE or moving to 2020 one. I just happen to see little improvement to justify the price tag. It’s a great phone anyways and looks like doesn’t cause trouble

 

[jm31828]

Hi guys! Unfortunately, I have to pass on some negative news, as some of you may find it useful.

Today the start of sales of 12 Pro Max and 12 Mini began, demo samples appeared in stores, and I measured them with the same device. Results below:

Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (may be better translation from Russian is flicker index)

Iphone 12 Pro Max:
1. 100% - 6.5%
2. 75% - 7.4%
3. 50% - 8.9%
4. 25% - 58.1%
5. 0% - 31.3%

Iphone 12 Mini:
1. 100% - 7.1%
2. 75% - 7.8%
3. 50% - 9.1%
4. 25% - 42.1%
5. 0% - 27.8%

I do not know what the reason is, that the supplier of these screens is not LG, but Samsung or BOE, or something else, for a fact there is a fact - at brightness levels below 50% Max and Mini flicker much more than 12 and 12 Pro. The only positive is

Hi guys! Unfortunately, I have to pass on some negative news, as some of you may find it useful.

Today the start of sales of 12 Pro Max and 12 Mini began, demo samples appeared in stores, and I measured them with the same device. Results below:

Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (may be better translation from Russian is flicker index)

Iphone 12 Pro Max:
1. 100% - 6.5%
2. 75% - 7.4%
3. 50% - 8.9%
4. 25% - 58.1%
5. 0% - 31.3%

Iphone 12 Mini:
1. 100% - 7.1%
2. 75% - 7.8%
3. 50% - 9.1%
4. 25% - 42.1%
5. 0% - 27.8%

I do not know what the reason is, that the supplier of these screens is not LG, but Samsung or BOE, or something else, for a fact there is a fact - at brightness levels below 50% Max and Mini flicker much more than 12 and 12 Pro. The only positive is that their flicker at these brightness levels is still less than the XS Max, so I still hope some of you are okay with these phones. I originally planned to buy the Max, but now it seems I will only consider the 12 Pro.

Please share your experience if someone buys Max or Mini.

Quick question on this- you mention the 12 Mini being worse at lower brightness than 12/12 Pro, but the numbers above show a lower percentage at 0% and 25% brightness than the 12/12Pro. Am I not reading this correctly?