Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[now i see it]

Uhhhh—
I developed extreme chronic eyestrain decades ago from staring at CRT monitors. They screwed up my eyes so bad I had pain for at least a YEAR after I stopped using them.
Classic eyestrain is caused by over fatigued eye muscles. Once they get messed up they can take a long long time to recover and never return to their former health/strength. At least that was my experience.
Anyone suffering from eyestrain caused by staring at a toxic iPhone OLED screen is setting themselves up for long term eye pain if they continue to use it.

 

[freeagent]

You said it yourself, years of staring at a screen messed up your eyes. They will never be the same.. your words. I’ve been using my toxic apple oled for almost a year now. Much more since I lost my job in October.. still no problem.. I don’t understand why people continue to punish themselves with apples terrible products when they can use another terrible product of equal or lesser value from another terrible manufacturer. Don’t use a smart phone.. use an old phone, but don’t punish yourself any more than you have to.

 

[macsound1]

I have to say, the first couple days using an iPhone 12, coming from an iPhone 8, did make my eyes feel weird. Nothing painful or uncomfortable...

 

[JM]

I have to say, the first couple days using an iPhone 12, coming from an iPhone 8, did make my eyes feel weird. Nothing painful or uncomfortable...

Lucky you 😂 I wish I didn't have headaches and eye strain with the 12 mini. Loved the size and photo quality.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Interesting to note: this may be totally anecdotal, but I’m finding the least eye strain at 21% — which my iPhone 12 Pro Max’s auto-brightness seems to have been defaulting to lately in slightly darker settings.

Notebookcheck measured iPhone 12 Pro to enter a very specific 250Hz curve at 21% brightness, which may also apply to the Max.

Regardless while it’s more usable I’m still noticing migraines after use. If not immediately after (I’ve been using my phone before bed a bit more often) then the next day. I probably should have purchased iPhone 12 Pro Max sooner to have more time to test since there are some periods where I can use it without experiencing any notable issues, but I still don’t think I’ll be able to keep it until headaches aren’t even a consideration.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Actually there's still at least some amount of flicker with DC Dimming too, but it's reduced quite a bit compared to PWM.

You’re right. Notebookcheck stated in their review of the Galaxy S20 FE “Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 30 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting.”

While the phone is using what they call 120Hz DC dimming there is still a degree of flickering involved. Maybe the flicker coefficient is so low that it wouldn’t bother most people that are sensitive.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I’m a glutton for punishment. I decided since Notebook Check had some different measurements for the 12 Pro compared to the 12 Pro Max, to try it out. It’s only been 16 hours, but my headache has not left. I tried Tylenol, ibuprofen and neither helped. My 11 gave me zero grief. I’ll give it another several days but I know this.....nothing is worth feeling like this. I envy the 90+ % who don’t experience this yet I’m glad for them they do not.

 

[MacGiver]

I’m a glutton for punishment. I decided since Notebook Check had some different measurements for the 12 Pro compared to the 12 Pro Max, to try it out. It’s only been 16 hours, but my headache has not left. I tried Tylenol, ibuprofen and neither helped. My 11 gave me zero grief. I’ll give it another several days but I know this.....nothing is worth feeling like this. I envy the 90+ % who don’t experience this yet I’m glad for them they do not.

What about your eyes? Eyes strain or not at all?

 

[jimmy_uk]

.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

What about your eyes? Eyes strain or not at all?

Oddly I’ve not felt the eye strain like I have in the past particularly when I had the 11 Pro Max. But I get a lingering headache and somethings feel that behind the eyes. But no eye watering, itching, etc.

 

[MacGiver]

Oddly I’ve not felt the eye strain like I have in the past particularly when I had the 11 Pro Max. But I get a lingering headache and somethings feel that behind the eyes. But no eye watering, itching, etc.

Ok interesting we are reacting differently. Opposite in my side. Itchy eyes...darn it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I probably should have kept my original pre-order for iPhone 12 Pro Max because I’m finding remarkably that the more I use it the less the display is bothering me. That would have given me more than an additional month to test before committing to keeping it. I initiated a return last night, which gives me 14 days to ship it back, but also cancels the trade-in.

When I had iPhone X I’d have constant migraines 24/7. After further testing I do find iPhone 12 Pro Max to be an improvement in that regard. It’s not perfect and I do still notice tension headaches and the occasional migraine (sometimes every few seconds), though they’re much more mild in comparison. Probably still not ideal to keep it for the next few months.

The good news is that this makes me optimistic that iPhone 13 will be a phone that I’ll be able to use and keep, as I’m sure the PWM will be further improved on that model. If we got DC dimming then I think that’d be enough to alleviate 95% of issues.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I’m a glutton for punishment. I decided since Notebook Check had some different measurements for the 12 Pro compared to the 12 Pro Max, to try it out. It’s only been 16 hours, but my headache has not left. I tried Tylenol, ibuprofen and neither helped. My 11 gave me zero grief. I’ll give it another several days but I know this.....nothing is worth feeling like this. I envy the 90+ % who don’t experience this yet I’m glad for them they do not.

So day two was nowhere near as bad. Actually quite doable. Curious to see what tomorrow brings.

 

[MICHAELSD]

So day two was nowhere near as bad. Actually quite doable. Curious to see what tomorrow brings.

Do you feel the 12 Pro is any different/better than the Max?

Also, you should test the 60Hz “almost DC dimming” mode between 22%-50% brightness. You can use an app like Dimmer to make precise brightness adjustments.

My 12 Pro Max has gotten better for me over time, but migraines are still unavoidable even if it’s more usable then iPhone X.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Do you feel the 12 Pro is any different/better than the Max?

Also, you should test the 60Hz “almost DC dimming” mode between 22%-50% brightness. You can use an app like Dimmer to make precise brightness adjustments.

My 12 Pro Max has gotten better for me over time, but migraines are still unavoidable even if it’s more usable then iPhone X.

I do feel personally the 12 Pro feels better than the 12 Pro Max. I downloaded that app and found I stay between 25-30% in my house which is where I’m at 99% of the time I’m looking at the phone. Headaches are my main complaint. Eye strain would be minimal at best. No nausea.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Well I found this interesting and stumbled upon it accidentally. This is my computer I use 8-10 hours per day for work. I usually keep the brightness around 60% and have no strain or issues to my knowledge. I’m assuming the Hz rate is high enough to not trigger my sensitivity? I assumed this was LCD and never once thought to video it.

 

[TDDM]

Well I found this interesting and stumbled upon it accidentally. This is my computer I use 8-10 hours per day for work. I usually keep the brightness around 60% and have no strain or issues to my knowledge. I’m assuming the Hz rate is high enough to not trigger my sensitivity? I assumed this was LCD and never once thought to video it.

View attachment 1710948

Lol, I actually had a similar situation with one of my displays as well. I used the thing nearly every day for hours and only checked the flickering after finding out I had an issue with PWM. Turns out it had some pretty bad flickering as well, but I have no issues with it whatsoever.

Mind sharing the display model? I'd be curious to see what the Hz rate is.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Lol, I actually had a similar situation with one of my displays as well. I used the thing nearly every day for hours and only checked the flickering after finding out I had an issue with PWM. Turns out it had some pretty bad flickering as well, but I have no issues with it whatsoever.

Mind sharing the display model? I'd be curious to see what the Hz rate is.

Let me continue to see if I can find it. I can locate most things on my MacBook but I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to find the display model on this.

@TDDM this appears to be the model

Product Not Found | Insight

www.insight.com

 

[MICHAELSD]

Well I found this interesting and stumbled upon it accidentally. This is my computer I use 8-10 hours per day for work. I usually keep the brightness around 60% and have no strain or issues to my knowledge. I’m assuming the Hz rate is high enough to not trigger my sensitivity? I assumed this was LCD and never once thought to video it.

View attachment 1710948

PWM is complex. There are different voltages, amplitudes, etc. to consider beyond simply the frequency. It is likely since it’s a LCD that isn’t a steep curve and the rate is high enough to not cause issues.

I was surprised when I found out that my plasma television as well as almost every LCD television on the market flickers, though that’s usually occurring at a rate of thousands of times per second or even higher as opposed to an average of 240Hz across all of the OLED iPhone models.

I’ve wondered lately if Steve Jobs would have found it acceptable to ship a product with PWM. I know for the longest time Apple has avoided it on every modern product, including the first ten generations of iPhone. I’m not sure if that was also the case in the 80’s, although I know that every Apple product I’ve used has been completely devoid of PWM (with Apple Watch using an implementation that mitigated the negative effects as much as possible) until iPhone X.

Apple’s display team has been getting more ambitious lately, since the iPad Pro also uses PWM at a high rate as well as the latest MacBook Pro and MacBook Air at an extremely high rate below 50% brightness.

I’ve heard Zollotech on YouTube state that he had to move away from the iPhone X and XS due to the PWM and that the “rate is high enough on the iPhone 12 series that it doesn’t bother him anymore,” which isn’t entirely accurate. The actual frequency has remained similar, though they’ve been doing something differently since iPhone 12 Pro Max bothers me the least out of every OLED iPhone.

In fact, I’m still considering keeping my iPhone 12 Pro Max but the fact remains that even if they’re much more mild in comparison and haven’t been persisting as long as they did after using iPhone X I still get migraines from the display. I’m more worried about the long-term health effects than anything else. As I’ve said before with iPhone X I’d gladly keep the same exact phone without any measurable flicker.

 

[TDDM]

Let me continue to see if I can find it. I can locate most things on my MacBook but I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to find the display model on this.

@TDDM this appears to be the model

Product Not Found | Insight

www.insight.com

Strange, Notebookcheck says there's no PWM. Maybe it's too weak to be detected by their equipment?

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www.notebookcheck.net

It's encouraging that it seems like there are forms of flicker that don't affect us though.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Strange, Notebookcheck says there's no PWM. Maybe it's too weak to be detected by their equipment?

HP EliteBook 840 G4 (7200U, Full HD) Laptop Review

We review the new HP EliteBook 840 G4. The business notebook is now equipped wih modern Kaby Lake processors, but there are otherwise not many changes compared to the previous EliteBook 840 G3. Is the EliteBook still competitive, or are the rivals better?

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It's encouraging that it seems like there are forms of flicker that don't affect us though.

I am optimistic that iPhone 13 will be the next step forward that makes the experience much more manageable. iPhone 12 is better than what’s come before, but I am still getting light migraines for the most part every few seconds, which wouldn’t bother me as much if I wasn’t concerned about the long-term health consequences if I was to continue using it daily.

I’d still take any compromises necessary to create an Accessibility setting, though I think for the benefit of all iPhone users it’d be better to mitigate the flicker as much as possible like they have on Apple Watch.

 

[spencermfi]

My history: never had any problem with any phone (including 3G, 4, 5, 6) until iPhone X which caused immediate eye-strain/headache. I returned for an 8 that caused no problems. Wife upgraded to XS Max which caused the same problems when i tried it. I upgraded to XR which caused no problems. Wife just upgraded to 12 Pro Max which causes the same problems - thought it was less at first, but not really. I may upgrade to 11 until Apple significantly changes their displays.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I realize I’m probably the most active participant in this thread, but I’m honestly a bit torn about whether or not to return my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I don’t get the same debilitating migraines I got on iPhone X that made it practically unusable and would have made it impossible for me to continue using that phone. Nonetheless I do still get migraines from iPhone 12 Pro Max. I’ll give it a little more time to see if it continues improving.

If not, I’ll probably pre-order the iPhone 13 Pro Max when it’s announced and hope that it’s finally resolved on the next generation. I’d consider the new iPhone SE, but I don’t think I’ll be satisfied with not having the flagship.

 

[AJAAY]

I realize I’m probably the most active participant in this thread, but I’m honestly a bit torn about whether or not to return my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I don’t get the same debilitating migraines I got on iPhone X that made it practically unusable and would have made it impossible for me to continue using that phone. Nonetheless I do still get migraines from iPhone 12 Pro Max. I’ll give it a little more time to see if it continues improving.

If not, I’ll probably pre-order the iPhone 13 Pro Max when it’s announced and hope that it’s finally resolved on the next generation. I’d consider the new iPhone SE, but I don’t think I’ll be satisfied with not having the flagship.

I'll say this. If you're effected by the 12 Pro Max now, it'll always be like that. There is really no "getting use it". Take it from me, it's been two years of using me using the XS Max and 11 Pro Max and I get light/mild symptoms and this is still after two years. As far as long term effects, I just had an eye appointment back on the 8th and my eyes are healthy.

I just packed up the 12 Pro Max and shipping it back tomorrow, I'm currently using the 12 Pro. Still up in the air with it. Although, I'm surprisingly loving the smaller size, way easier with day to day handling of the phone, I've aways been a plus/max guy.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I'll say this. If you're effected by the 12 Pro Max now, it'll always be like that. There is really no "getting use it". Take it from me, it's been two years of using me using the XS Max and 11 Pro Max and I get light/mild symptoms and this is still after two years. As far as long term effects, I just had an eye appointment back on the 8th and my eyes are healthy.

I just packed up the 12 Pro Max and shipping it back tomorrow, I'm currently using the 12 Pro. Still up in the air with it. Although, I'm surprisingly loving the smaller size, way easier with day to day handling of the phone, I've aways been a plus/max guy.

Is the 12 Pro any better? I’m happy with the size of the Max since in retrospect I did feel like I wanted a slightly larger phone when I tried iPhone X and iPhone 11, but I’d give the Pro consideration. I feel like a broken record saying this: apparently there’s a mode that’s similar to DC dimming between 22%-50% brightness that I could only confirm is on the 6.1” Pro.

I am still concerned about the effects of using a device that causes migraines for a year or two, although I’ll probably upgrade to iPhone 13 in the fall either way.