Actually there's still at least some amount of flicker with DC Dimming too, but it's reduced quite a bit compared to PWM.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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Actually there's still at least some amount of flicker with DC Dimming too, but it's reduced quite a bit compared to PWM.
You're showing the results for the 11 Pro, the video i showed was for the X ..
Well I was originally talking about the 11 Pro (and how notebookcheck misrecorded rate) so I have no clue why you replied with video for the X?
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Great news. While I would jump on this phone I will wait a little longer to see if they have made these screen changes to the S21 range. If not S20 FE it is for 2021.
As you seem to be in the UK, there's also the CPU issue to consider. One of the reasons I got this 5G variant of the FE is that I could get a SnapDragon Samsung here in Finland without having to import it. The Exynos versions of the S20 generation compared rather poorly to the SD variants, so that's one additional thing to check before making any decisions.
Anyone who experiences eye strain using an iPhone 11 (LCD panel) the eyestrain is caused by the slightly blurry "low res" 326 ppi display in a small form factor. It's the smallness of everything on the screen plus the slightly not sharp display that causes the eyes to struggle to focus, fatigue and then cause pain.
I have a 6 Plus I use every day, all day and have been using it all day every day for 5 years with zero eyestrain problems. Granted it's not the best display in regards to color accuracy or contrast, but it's 401 ppi display doesn't bother my eyes at all.
The iPhone 7 and 8 which I have also (and almost never use) have the 326 ppi LCD screens, and if I use either of them for an extended period, I begin to develop eyestrain.
While the 326 ppi LCD screens may be called "retina" they're still slightly blurry enough to make the eyes hunt for focus where none exists -- which is what causes eyestrain
I have a 6 Plus I use every day, all day and have been using it all day every day for 5 years with zero eyestrain problems. Granted it's not the best display in regards to color accuracy or contrast, but it's 401 ppi display doesn't bother my eyes at all.
The iPhone 7 and 8 which I have also (and almost never use) have the 326 ppi LCD screens, and if I use either of them for an extended period, I begin to develop eyestrain.
While the 326 ppi LCD screens may be called "retina" they're still slightly blurry enough to make the eyes hunt for focus where none exists -- which is what causes eyestrain
Thanks for the heads up. Annoyingly the 5G varient costs £100 more and I could care less for 5G but do for the Snapdragon.
Possibly a factor for some but this resolution has existed on all the early iphones and still the resolution of many ipads and not an issue for most.
Some think it maybe temporal dithering which cycles between different color shades with each new frame simulate an intermediate shade. Some think it maybe face ID.
The amount of people affected by the newer Apple LCDs seems alot smaller than the crowd affected by PWM but is becoming a wider issue as whatever change Apple has made is now showing on iphone, ipad and Macbooks.
I’d have to disagree with this. Where were the complaints of eye strain and other symptoms on the iPhone 4, 5, 5S, 6, ......
People in my opinion get too caught up on spec sheets. I used the 8 Plus and it’s 401 ppi screen for 3 full years and when I got the 11, I over did it with my side by side comparisons and in the end, the 11’s Liquid Retina outperformed my 8 Plus. No, I don’t have poor vision. Nor will I dispute anyone who says the opposite. But I’ve had zero issues with the 11 like I do the OLED screens and would take the 11’s color accuracy and display over the Plus series all day long.
I believe I have that issue as since I switched from my 8+ to my 12PM I have eyes strains, itchy and tears in my eyes (no headache). I thought it was due to something else as my eyes knowing I am 40+ and became presbyopic recently... But knowing about that issue I can see it is approximately since I have the 12PM that I have that issue. Bummer...
I wonder if going to a 12 Pro would help as it has a higher PWM frequency so less of a stroboscopic effect...not really sure this would help.
I don't see how anyone sensitive to PWM can use any of the OLED iPhones but it's seems some have powered through or only have a very mild intolerance? If you can try a 12 Pro by all means give it a test run.
Damn.... I've had blurry eyes for a while and just making the connection with the XS.
I will turn off FaceID and see if that makes a difference.
After all firing LASERS at one's eyes may not be a very good idea. Could be right?
I was looking for something different on the forum but I've just had this insight. FaceID is great, but not really any better than touch ID - cooler, yes, maybe a hair faster, but it may come with some downsides. Like blurry eyes. Which makes it absolutely not worth it.
I also feel my 16" MBP screen is more straining on the eye than the old 2012. But it's LCD same tech, not OLED. Hmm. Maybe just too much screen in general.
Edit: More research, there's two possible causes: Face ID lazers, and PWM - pulse width modification to reach screen brightness levels below 100%
So now I turned OFF "attention aware features" - I don't even know what that's supposed to be, but that fires the floodlight every second or so, invisible IR... crazy how they didn't consider people spend hours staring at their phones, that can't be good, I see a lawsuit incoming.
I also turned screen brightness to 100% on phone and laptop. Let's see.
I will turn off FaceID and see if that makes a difference.
After all firing LASERS at one's eyes may not be a very good idea. Could be right?
I was looking for something different on the forum but I've just had this insight. FaceID is great, but not really any better than touch ID - cooler, yes, maybe a hair faster, but it may come with some downsides. Like blurry eyes. Which makes it absolutely not worth it.
I also feel my 16" MBP screen is more straining on the eye than the old 2012. But it's LCD same tech, not OLED. Hmm. Maybe just too much screen in general.
Edit: More research, there's two possible causes: Face ID lazers, and PWM - pulse width modification to reach screen brightness levels below 100%
So now I turned OFF "attention aware features" - I don't even know what that's supposed to be, but that fires the floodlight every second or so, invisible IR... crazy how they didn't consider people spend hours staring at their phones, that can't be good, I see a lawsuit incoming.
I also turned screen brightness to 100% on phone and laptop. Let's see.
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I have also tried and set up reduce white point in accessibility settings at 90% and will use it anytime brightness is below 50%. Will see if it helps. You can give it a try too.
It doesn’t help if you’re truly affected by pwm
All OLED iPhones remarkably have PWM even at 100% brightness. I’ve tried this and got more headaches since it’s still flickering, just at an incredibly high brightness.
To satiate my own curiosity I found the display also flickers at its max brightness of 800 nits, which is only activated in direct sunlight or by shining a flashlight at the ambient light sensor, as well as with HDR video.
I’ve given up on current phones. I also am highly skeptical the se plus will ever arrive. If the iPhone 13 doesn’t offer a pwm FREE experience, I’m going to be forced to android. My 8+ will be 4 years old at that time. I’d be fine with an 11 lcd, but my eyes can’t tolerate it for some reason. My only hope is that Samsung has some kind of pwm breakthrough, seeing as they are the #1 display maker and whatever they do will trickle down to the iPhone. Really sucks, but at this point a phone is more of a tool to me and I have lost the “hobby” aspect of it.
same here, I'm still hoping iPhone 13 can offer one solution to this PWM. Otherwise I have to either stay with my iPhone 11 LCD or jump ships to other brands. But I'm not sure which other brand can offer a good phone experience without PWM? I have been used to iPhone ecosystem for over 10 years, unbelievable...
Question for all of you affected by PWM. How long after stop using the OLED display your eye strain stops? Like quickly after, within 1 or 2 hours? 1 day, more?
I am asking as I have stopped using my 12PM for 48 hours now but still feel my eyes I burning especially when I look to an LCD iPhone (I have been using an XR the past 48 hours). Either it can take time, either this is something else than PWM... I am lost. I have received an iPhone 11 today and I need to decide before Jan 8th if i retrun the 12 PM or keep it and return the 11 instead.
I am asking as I have stopped using my 12PM for 48 hours now but still feel my eyes I burning especially when I look to an LCD iPhone (I have been using an XR the past 48 hours). Either it can take time, either this is something else than PWM... I am lost. I have received an iPhone 11 today and I need to decide before Jan 8th if i retrun the 12 PM or keep it and return the 11 instead.
maybe it depends on how long the OLED was used. I had the OLED for a day with about 1.5 hours screen on time before I made the decision to never look at it again.
my mild PWM headaches and eye ache completely disappeared after 2-3 days. (Major pain disappeared after a day).
the might be some residual psychosomatic pain triggered by looking at the 11 screen because of the previous pain from the 12... I think that's what happened in my case.
Right now after 4 days of 11 use I have zero pain or headaches.
Thank you for your feedback. I have sent back the 11 I ordered 48h ago as I am unsure it is really due to PWM or maybe I don’t like to admit it and going back to the 11 was really a downgrade I did not like. I will use my old XR a few days and see how it goes. I thought after 2 days that would be gone.
Why would you keep the 12PM? Clearly you are very sensitive to PWM if your suffering 48hrs later!
And if you have the XR you already knew what the 11 was = the same phone with a very, very slight performance boost and marginally better camera 🤷♂️
2-3 days seems like a reasonable timeframe. If you used the phone for a longer period it may take almost an equivalent amount of time to recover.
I’m more or less in the same situation as you. I really don’t want to return my iPhone 12 Pro Max, but there’s no getting around the headaches and migraines. It’s such a well-built premium smartphone that I’d gladly keep for 2-3 years if only the display didn’t flicker. I love the Pacific Blue color as well. I was gutted having to return iPhone X too, but I didn’t have a choice in that case either.
I get basically every PWM symptom. I had my iPhone 12 Pro Max powered off since New Year’s Day then powered it on two days later and immediately felt dizzy, since the brightness was at 12%. Once I raised it to around 25% it wasn’t as bad but I still get watery eyes and a slight migraine/tension headache no matter what if I try to stare at the display for too long. At times I can get constant migraines just from staring at YouTube videos. The display looks fantastic when my eyes are able to focus on it, but there are also times my eyes try to avoid fully focusing on the display which negates the benefits of having such a high quality panel. I can always tell something feels off. It is marginally more usable than iPhone X, but not enough so that it would be a smart decision to keep it past the return period.
On the plus side the Pro variants of iPhone 13 are going to have a LTPO display that can dynamically change its refresh rate from 1Hz up to 120Hz so the PWM implementation will have to be the most different we’ve seen in the past five generations. I’d try iPhone 12 Pro to test the 60Hz “almost DC dimming mode” but at this point it will probably be better to wait for the next generation.
I do feel that otherwise I probably made the right decision going for the iPhone 12 Pro Max after going back and forth on every model other than the Mini since I appreciate the larger display and design. It doesn’t feel too large, and truth be told when I tried iPhone 11 I wished it had a larger display. (Although I probably wouldn’t have minded as much if the resolution was higher/bezels were smaller, though in retrospect I also wanted a slightly larger display on iPhone X.)
Thanks for sharing... Kind of in the same boat. Apart from being frustrated to send back my 12PM before Jan 8th, I decided to give it another try and if it really does not work fine I will give it to my wife and use my XR or even the 8 Plus my wife uses, this phone is a beast and one of the best iPhone in my opinion. Actually I have absolutely no headache or dizzy felling. The only “symptom” is burning eyes, sometimes wet eyes but again absolutely no migraine. Last year my glasses correction was changed several times as my presbyobia was moving fast and I already had that burning eyes feeling before having the 12PM. Last time I went to my ophtalmologist was on Nov 16th and i received the 12 PM on Nov 13th. I remember my eyes were already burning and I thought it was again a bad glasses correction.
Bottom line I have not certainty about the origin of my problem... Either it is the phone, or my glasses, or both (PWM aggravating my eyes condition). I think I will stop using the 12PM for a week (not easy 😔 ) and see how it goes. If I still have the issue I can assume it is not the PWM. If I don’t have the issue anymore I will see if once I am back on the 12PM if it comes back or not. I first wanted to get the 11, send back the 12PM and save 500€ but going back to the 11 is a no deal. I think I prefer handing over the 12PM to my wife, get back to the 8 Plus and wait until the iPhone 13. My wife will be happy even if she does not really care that much (she likes the 8 Plus).😉
About the LPTO, I don’t know. I am not a specialist but I understood it still flickers so that may not solve PWM affected people. I took a slo-mo of my Apple Watch and it does not flicker a bit though... it is LPTO right? Time, technology and Apple willing to attack that issue will tell...
@Kitkad thread OP. Maybe you could change the thread title to “Eye-strain while using OLED iPhones”. So It would be a more general topic as the iPhone X is not anymore the only OLED iPhone. Thanks
To add to the other responses on this - for me it really depends on the severity of the reaction and how long you're exposed. Perhaps between a couple of hours and a couple of days.
Unfortunately I have also experienced a kind of association which means that for a while I can even get affected by non-PWM screens. Weird and upsetting.
In the end everything should return to normal as long as you don't try to force it.
I only once managed to 'get used to' a screen with PWM, but it was a much older LED laptop display with nothing like as much depth to the flicker as these OLEDs. It took a few weeks and I don't wish to go through that again so I just avoid OLED with a massive barge pole.